|
Internet Explorer posted:I don't care what anyone says, this is loving cool. It’s extremely rad aesthetically but woof that price. Not gonna lie, I’ve been extremely tempted by the red Zaku variant motherboard and case. bloodysabbath fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jun 22, 2021 |
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 15:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
that leaked games list was accurate i'd like to try it out myself but ho boy is that a load of games i'm never going to buy dota 2 is free to play i guess
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
repiv posted:that leaked games list was accurate riftbreaker has a free demo if you just wanna try the tech
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 15:39
|
|
Alan Smithee posted:Newegg has a gundam pre build up for pre order Is the super erratic flip-flopping of the text angle and direction on the PSU shroud a Gundam thing? Because that would drive me insane.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 15:40
|
|
|
repiv posted:that leaked games list was accurate Edit: no they didn’t, I can’t read change my name fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 15:47
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:riftbreaker has a free demo if you just wanna try the tech Yeah that's about what I expected, even FSR Ultra Quality (1108p internal for 1440p output) immediately looks more softer and more aliased than native. It's passable but I'd only use it as a last resort. The other presets rapidly go downhill from there, FSR Balanced and Performance are upscaling from 900p or 720p internal and they sure as hell look like it That's from a fairly static top-down perspective too, temporal stability issues will be more obvious in first person games repiv fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Internet Explorer posted:I don't care what anyone says, this is loving cool. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 16:24
|
|
|
Good to see that FSR 1.0 is actually going to be useful to some people. Going to be interesting to see how it gets adopted over time especially since it’ll be hitting consoles sooner or later
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
repiv posted:It's kind of telling that DigitalFoundry didn't get preview access They usually release later than the exact embargo lift time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
Oh I have a R9 390. Guess it's time to start thinking about a new system if I can ever get a reasonably priced new card.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
Llamadeus posted:They usually release later than the exact embargo lift time. Fair enough DF went the extra mile by directly comparing to Unreals native temporal upscaler, and surprise surprise TAAU looks much cleaner than FSR at the same internal resolution  As I was saying before, FSR is a step backwards from even the years-old UE4 TAAU implementation, nevermind the improved TSR implementation in UE5. It's especially frustrating that Unreal games which didn't directly expose TAAU in the menus are implementing the inferior FSR instead of just adding a goddamn TAAU toggle to the menu it's already in the engine just let us enable it without editing the config files manually 
repiv fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
Unironically love that Gundam case; not sure about cooling. Though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
FSR is actually really quite good, I know a bunch of people (myself included) in this thread were downbeat on it before today, but it's been a pleasant surprise. It's not bad at all for a first go. It only needs to be good enough to usurp DLSS while being hardware-agnostic. I would not be surprised if it became the de facto way of resolution scaling, in the same way freesync took the VRR crown despite not being as feature-complete.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:26
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:I would not be surprised if it became the de facto way of resolution scaling why though, when there's already better upscalers that run on any hardware see my last post edit
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
Yeah a lot of the comparison footage looks pretty good unless you're doing 720p upres to 4k or other extremes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
repiv posted:why though, when there's already better upscalers that run on any hardware Of course, UE5 has one for example, but I do not think it has the potential to be as ubiquitous. As I previously mentioned - it only needs to be good enough, not the best.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
repiv posted:Fair enough I appreciate though that you went to low key insinuations immediately lol If I was still on my 1060, I'd be happy with the quality and especially the performance increase of FSR but the fact that it has the same availability problems as DLSS is pretty disappointing. When you're already at low settings and just want to break 60fps, FSR would be awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:Of course, UE5 has one for example, but I do not think it has the potential to be as ubiquitous. As I previously mentioned - it only needs to be good enough, not the best. I just don't see the value in developers going out of their way to implement this dead-end technology when temporal upscaling is already well understood. It's not new, UE4 shipped TAAU in 2018 and I don't think they were the first to do it. Not every engine supports TAAU right now, and not every engine that does support TAAU exposes it on PC, but I'd rather devs spend their time on making TAAU more available than a solution that's always going to perform worse In the case of Unreal games like Godfall it's especially baffling because they already have a temporal upscaler sitting there in the engine, but it's not exposed in the menus on PC and they went through the much more complex process of integrating FSR into Unreal from scratch rather than adding a toggle to enable the superior upscaler that's already there. repiv fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
The best thing I can say about FSR is it might have uses in some games (and on consoles) where they don't have access to a better upscaler, for whatever reason. And I think that weak games list shows the dev response, honestly. DLSS is still a big problem for AMD, and FSR is explicitly not a competitor to DLSS. I guess one good thing is it being entirely engine side means even if it flops or gets abandoned by AMD, its not gonna break or cripple anything. So thats good!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
Microsoft and Sony have both put their support to FSR since they use AMD parts, devs will support it because the consoles do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:51
|
|
|
Temporal upscaling and checkerboarding is already ubiquitous in the AAA console space, developers were forced to adopt them when MS/Sony put out "4K" consoles with nowhere near 4K capable GPUs last gen. Does FSR work on consoles? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's the best option on consoles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:54
|
|
|
Sony and MS are partnered with AMD. They aren't going to poo poo on them for no reason. At the same time, they won't actually use a shoddy system just because AMD is pushing it. The only developer use cases I see for FSR are : #1 AMD money truck #2 Rolled your own engine and don't want to write your own upscaler
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
I'll add #3 for engines which stuck with MSAA and don't have motion vectors implemented, or relics like Dota 2 which moved past MSAA to FXAA and never progressed to TAA, but those are in the extreme minority
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:02
|
|
|
not bad, it seems like reviewers agree that it's probably better than DLSS 1.0, maybe somewhat worse than DLSS 1.9? that's better than expected really. regardless of how easy it is to implement (someone on reddit said it took 1 developer 2 hours), it still has to actually be implemented on a per-game basis, which is disappointing. it would be nice if this was something you could use on any game, particularly older games that aren't going to get updated. I guess in general those are the titles that are relatively easy to run at native, but as other people are saying, it's still got a bit of an identity crisis for newer titles. Most newer titles already have their own upscaling solutions. At minimum some form of TAAU or checkerboarding, often a custom solution like UE5 TSR and so on. In those situations FSR has to not just be better than nothing but better than the alternatives. And presumably only reasonably new titles are going to pay to have developers go back and implement support (even if it's only a couple hours to implement, you still have to validate it and support it, and if there isn't still a team doing those things for other ongoing work on a title then you're talking about big costs just for one feature). I guess it does fit the use-case of Radeon-havers who can't access DLSS, as well as people who are still holding onto Pascal or Polaris (although cutting off legacy GCN owners the day before releasing FSR is amazing  ). But 6000-series owners largely went into this informed, they knew they wouldn't be able to use DLSS and that they didn't have tensor cores for a similar implementation on AMD, and that NVIDIA was starting to make serious progress on 2.0, 2.1, and continuing to work on future versions, so I'm not shedding too many tears for them. If you're happy with FSR then I guess whatever but I'm guessing DLSS support is probably going to be at least as common, and Ampere users get access to both, they can use FSR if there is some game that just can't/won't integrate DLSS.again, now that actual reviewers have got their hands on it, it sounds better than expected. Really the people I'd like to hear from are DigitalFoundry though, and it'd be nice to have some head-to-head comparisons (since both approaches will be limited to titles that manually implement it, this is relevant, because only new-release titles will have it and many of those will implement DLSS too). It would also be nice to hear some more permutations of testing to pin down the exact quality compromises involved, as that's pretty integral to the whole situation. going forward I think they absolutely need to work on a way to inject this at the driver level for it to have broad relevance, and I'm frankly kinda puzzled since it sounds like that's largely what they're doing anyway? but idk. I guess for true legacy games you still have to use Freestyle Sharpening / RIS / Reshade sharpening.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Destiny 2  still the worst AA in a modern game by far
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
repiv posted:Fair enough but that only works in UE4 and never every single game engine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
repiv posted:As I was saying before, FSR is a step backwards from even the years-old UE4 TAAU implementation, nevermind the improved TSR implementation in UE5. It's especially frustrating that Unreal games which didn't directly expose TAAU in the menus are implementing the inferior FSR instead of just adding a goddamn TAAU toggle to the menu it's already in the engine just let us enable it without editing the config files manually  quote:I think most developers do not know it exists or do not know that people want it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
I’m trying to think of a game where I like having AA on at all, performance aside. It was good when I was playing games at 1280x1024, but at 1440p i haven’t found an instance where it looks ok vs being off entirely, and I’m pretty sure I had it off most times when is was gaming at 1080p. Games still come out with multiple levels of AA options so I’m assuming people still use it regardless of resolution. Maybe I’m the minority?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:47
|
|
|
wargames posted:but that only works in UE4 and never every single game engine. TAAU isn't exclusive to Unreal, I'm just using it as an example. Metro Exodus Enhanced is another recent example, I saw people complaining about 4A not supporting FSR when their engine already has TAAU which works on AMD cards, and almost certainly produces better results than FSR ever would. Most of Ubisofts PC games have had either TAAU or checkerboarding for years too, which will be interesting when Far Cry 6 launches with FSR but presumably also TAAU. RE:Villiage, another upcoming FSR game, is also one of the few PC games to support checkerboard rendering already.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 19:50
|
|
|
buglord posted:I’m trying to think of a game where I like having AA on at all, performance aside. It was good when I was playing games at 1280x1024, but at 1440p i haven’t found an instance where it looks ok vs being off entirely, and I’m pretty sure I had it off most times when is was gaming at 1080p. aliasing is probably one of the most subjective areas in gaming tbh. I find aliasing to be really obnoxious on hard edges and things like wires or fences especially in motion - when you are walking around in a FPS and you can see the jaggies forming and merging as you move the character or tilt the camera I think that looks pretty awful. But all of the existing solutions have their own downsides and problems too, and some people find the artifacts of some/all of those AA methods to be more annoying than the actual aliasing artifacts, and if that's you then I guess just turn it off. There really is no "right" answer, all of the existing methods suck in some respect or another (and to greater or lesser extents depending on the exact game and its implementation of those methods). The only "perfect" method is supersampling and the downside is the enormous performance hit that comes from running a game at (eg) 4x its native resolution or whatever, which necessarily implies a much lower framerate (not a visual downside but a downside nonetheless) unless the game is so old that you can max out your monitor while still rendering a poo poo-ton of resolution.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
KitGuru has a video with direct comparisons of FSR vs TAAU, Vimeo lets you download the source file if you want to pixel peep: https://vimeo.com/565848765
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
Llamadeus posted:DF's Alex on the uptake of TAAU in UE4 That says more about Epic's promotion of it than anything. Pretty dumb to create something that powerful and forget to tell devs about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:05
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:aliasing is probably one of the most subjective areas in gaming tbh. I find aliasing to be really obnoxious on hard edges and things like wires or fences especially in motion - when you are walking around in a FPS and you can see the jaggies forming and merging as you move the character or tilt the camera I think that looks pretty awful. yeah i can't stand aliasing either and my  ing over upscalers is coming from that perspectivemost reviewers are saying FSR UQ looks about as good as native but i could easily see the extra aliasing in motion, despite the modest upscale factor of 1108p to 1440p
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
TAAU and FSR aren't orthogonal. You could use TAAU to get to the base resolution and then FSR up to a higher resolution theoretically. Depending on the overhead and your target frame rate and resolution, that could be a viable setup. The fact the FSR will work in purely forward renderers that don't necessarily have motion vectors can't be entirely ignored either. I dunno, it seems good enough. FSR ultra quality for a ~30% frame rate boost could be a reasonable compromise, if you were struggling to hit 60hz/120hz/244hz at your desired resolution on your hardware. If AMD can convince/pay enough developers to support it, it'll have done it's job, which is to show up. I've always wondered why pure frame interpolation didn't see more uptake. I remember reading a paper in like 2011 about it from the Force Unleashed developers. They basically just used motion vectors to re-project every second frame while keeping the base rate at 30hz. They sampled the controller every 16ms to ensure that camera motion vectors updated at 60hz which had the effect of reducing perceived latency as well. It looked pretty good at the time and was viable on an Xbox 360. Something like that combined with rendering a quarter or eighth resolution intermediate frame to fill in occlusion artefacts would probably look pretty good if it were constrained to high frame rates. steckles fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
Seems like a reasonable trade-off for the performance uplift. DLSS has always had IQ issues that manifest differently on a per-game basis, it’s difficult to ding this. People notice the frame boost more than IQ issues 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
steckles posted:The fact the FSR will work in purely forward renderers that don't necessarily have motion vectors can't be entirely ignored either. FSR does fit nicely there, but AFAIK there just aren't that many engines left that haven't already gone all-in on TAA I can only think of a couple of strategy series (Civ and Anno), Forza (at least as of Horizon 4) and VR in general, but VR people demand so much clarity they tend to go the other way and bruteforce supersample instead
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
What is the best graphics card that will work with my PC from 2012? PCIe: 2.1x16; 8.000 GB/s maximum throughput Current GPU: Radeon HD 6770, 11.42'' long, 6.69'' high, 1.97'' wide Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2300 CPU @ 2.80GHz 2.80 GHz Installed RAM: 16.0 GB System type: 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor galenanorth fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
repiv posted:FSR does fit nicely there, but AFAIK there just aren't that many engines left that haven't already gone all-in on TAA Player relative motion aside, if you've got shadows in your game you'd need motion vectors relative to shadow casting lights and do reprojection of your shadow maps avoid ghosting. Ray traced reflections have their own problems. Computing the motion vectors in reflected geometry is non-trivial. As far as I know, games just ignore this and treat all motion as relative to the player. I'm not saying stuff like this is gonna be the death of TAAU and DLSS, but it is an area where a purely spatial upscaler could have perceptually better image quality at a given resolution depending on which artefacts you're sensitive to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
galenanorth posted:What is the best graphics card that will work with my PC from 2012? A bog standard 1050 would be a good upgrade over that 6770.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
What games do you (want to) play and what resolution/refresh rate is your main display? Technically anything PCIe will work, though at a certain point going to a higher end card won't make sense due to your CPU acting as a bottleneck. For 1080p at 60Hz a 1060 or 1660 would probably be the right choice that isn't too bottlenecked by your old CPU. Anything faster than a 2060 probably be overkill.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2021 21:35
|
|
