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 It finally happened. 2 was excessive, 3 was dumb. Kris xK fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 17:37
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 06:17 |
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https://twitter.com/PlayRuneterra/status/1408092552243290118 Excuse me what the gently caress is Starlit Epiphany? 
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Jun 24, 2021 20:09
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I know this thread often is cranky about Runeterra, but one thing I appreciate is continuing support for other archetypes. We got new Deep support recently. Poro, Elite, Yeti, Daybreak/Nightfall, Spiders, Celestial, and Slay support. While Riot does drop new archetypes like Lurk, I appreciate that old decks get new love. Basically, everything gets support except Support.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:26
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I'd like nab to exist, but unfortunately the player base disagrees.
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Jun 24, 2021 20:27
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Nab when it was at it's height didn't feel great to play against as the other guy threw your discounted cards back at you and stole your win conditions. Atakhan seems like a fun 10 drop, Twisted Treeline might end up in fearsome aggro or spider decks for a delayed 3 mana 6/6 fearsome spider, probably easier to summon then the other card. Field Promotion could be neat too. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 22:01
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lmaoing at astral fox. The shadow isles sacrifice package was already really strong to the point people are calling for nerfs to it, so they give it a crazy burn card. Day one of the patch I am 100% adding that card to spider aggro and climbing back up the ladder over the corpses of all the people running bad versions of the new archetypes. hit button fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 22:23
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Nab when it was at it's height didn't feel great to play against as the other guy threw your discounted cards back at you and stole your win conditions. The spider is really, really delayed though, because it can't attack the turn it spawns. Plenty of time for an opponent to save something for it or play around it. And it's an awful topdeck. And if your opponent can hold off your attacks you just spent mana to take up a board slot and nothing else. It's poo poo, imo. The slay guy seems like a good beefier alternative to the draw 2 guy. It is a skill though, so disruptable. The scout card is cool, scout on anything can get really wild with the downside that you have to precommit a card to it, so you pass priority and open yourself to be 2 for 1ed. Defiant dance seems crazy good. Magic Underwear fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 22:34
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I don't think Treeline is that bad, but it's definitely too slow for spider aggro.Magic Underwear posted:Defiant dance seems crazy good. hit button fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 22:40
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I think Twisted Treeline makes more sense if you consider it in a Tempo package. You play it and swing with three fearsome units and it pops out an additional blocker for your opponent’s next turn that might get to attack on your turn after that.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:43
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hit button posted:I don't think Treeline is that bad, but it's definitely too slow for spider aggro. I suppose so, but it does give you a round of offense where their best unit is gone and they may not be able to replay it after. Lord_Magmar posted:I think Twisted Treeline makes more sense if you consider it in a Tempo package. You play it and swing with three fearsome units and it pops out an additional blocker for your opponent’s next turn that might get to attack on your turn after that. But landmarks are negative tempo. And the second you play it your opponent is going to do whatever they can to delay it, which if they do means at least four turns until it can attack, which is just bad.
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Jun 24, 2021 23:52
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Magic Underwear posted:I suppose so, but it does give you a round of offense where their best unit is gone and they may not be able to replay it after. As in you play it on the turn you have 3 fearsome units to swing with and have a blocker for your opponent’s next turn.
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Jun 25, 2021 02:24
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Lord_Magmar posted:As in you play it on the turn you have 3 fearsome units to swing with and have a blocker for your opponent’s next turn. Yeah I read the card. Did you read my post? If your opponent can kill one of your attackers in response to playing this then your tempo deck just wasted a lot of tempo for nothing. In general if you have 3 units that can attack favorably you really want to open attack anyway. If I really wanted to develop before attacking I'd play a creature that can do damage right now! That's how tempo decks win, they keep you on the back foot long just long enough to count to 20 before they get crushed by value! They don't win by playing a brick that might be an overstatted beater later, if the opponent's draw is bad! That's literally the opposite of tempo! A tempo version would give you a 6/6 now but hurt your board later. The card is garbage.
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Jun 25, 2021 03:09
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No aggro decks are counting to 20 before they lose to value. Tempo decks want to use well statted minions and efficient trading. This thing is a 3 mana 6/6 with fearsome, the fact that it can’t attack the turn you play it is not much of a drawback for a body absolutely nothing contests the earliest turns it comes down (3 or 4 mana). I personally don’t think it’s very good, but it is not garbage and it’s definitely more playable than the other Vilemaw summon card.
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Jun 25, 2021 08:16
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I don't get why they printed astral fox. Worth mentioning that the trigger is disruptable though.
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Jun 25, 2021 09:21
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No Wave posted:I don't get why they printed astral fox. Worth mentioning that the trigger is disruptable though. By "not get" do you mean because you think Slay is strong enough already?
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Jun 25, 2021 14:18
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yes. SI has a weirdly high number of burn tools already, and I prefer good cards going anywhere except SI butcher keeper decks.
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Jun 25, 2021 14:48
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https://twitter.com/playruneterra/status/1408454950074650625?s=21 Ah, I see landmarks continue to be bad and counterproductive. I understand the idea they were going for but I can't see why you would ever want to run Ripper's Bay instead of just splashing some Predict from Shurima instead.
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Jun 25, 2021 17:26
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Ah, I see landmarks continue to be bad and counterproductive. I understand the idea they were going for but I can't see why you would ever want to run Ripper's Bay instead of just splashing some Predict from Shurima instead. At 1 mana it's really not costing you tempo, it improves your chances of lurking significantly, an d it enables shaped stone in a deck that's really hurting for attack buff combat tricks. I think it's an easy take. (Not to mention that the card itself has the lurk keyword, further increasing the consistency of the deck)
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Jun 25, 2021 17:30
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Bloodbait and Ripper's Bay aren't fantastic in a deck with Shurima, but we need cards like this if we want the archetype to exist in two factions (Shurima and Bilgewater) as opposed to being locked in to one paired faction.
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Jun 25, 2021 18:00
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CitizenKeen posted:Bloodbait and Ripper's Bay aren't fantastic in a deck with Shurima, but we need cards like this if we want the archetype to exist in two factions (Shurima and Bilgewater) as opposed to being locked in to one paired faction. Bloodbait seems not playable to me unless that card it puts on top is a good card. I'm too lazy to look it up. The problem is you are using a card to do nothing a lot of the time. Usually decks don't have enough gas to support things like this. It borders on win more even, you've already drawn, played, and stuck lurk cards before you can benefit from it. I'm not sure why they keep designing these mechanics that do almost nothing & force your next draw into being something else. It's very bad to tank card advantage like this. It might work in lurk. I don't buy the predict argument because predict doesn't have lurk and hitting your lurks seems to be a critical part of the archetype's design. I guess what I'm saying is, make ripper's bay always discard 3 if you miss the lurk & give bloodbait a one way ticket to cantrip city and have it draw a card before it does anything else. Or better yet, if it gets hit with a lurk activation draw it. That'd be a cool mechanic. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 18:17
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Khorne posted:Ripper's Bay has a cool design, but the design is timid. If it dumped 2-3 cards it'd be an awesome design independent of whether it gets played or not. I don't even play deep but I'd rather see an over the top card with a straightforward nerf than an underwhelming card that's never going to be touched. I suppose it... half works with Deep. It's dumping cards which helps you get to that threshold but it's discarding rather than obliterating so if you're throwing that into a Deep deck anything it dumps won't get pulled back out by Nautilus on level up. I dunno I'm probably off base with my initial impressions because I definitely do not spend much if any time in actual ranked play. I just have a hard time seeing it being worth it to run a full Lurk deck and running the risk of this landmark dumping your spells. But hey who knows maybe a theoretical Lurk deck will be light enough on non-lurk followers and spells to make that risk negligible. YoshiOfYellow fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 18:20
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I dunno I'm probably off base with my initial impressions because I definitely do not spend much if any time in actual ranked play. I just have a hard time seeing it being worth it to run a full Lurk deck and running the risk of this landmark dumping your spells. But hey who knows maybe a theoretical Lurk deck will be light enough on non-lurk followers and spells to make that risk negligible. I'm very much a player who would play a card that did 15 damage to their own nexus and obliterated 30 cards from my deck on t1 if I thought it was better than not playing it, though. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 18:32
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Khorne posted:Bloodbait seems not playable to me unless that card it puts on top is a good card.
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Jun 25, 2021 18:36
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landmarks just need to be able to block or have better benefits, so far none of them are worth it unless you are doing a meme deck and dont care about winning
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Jun 25, 2021 19:17
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That isn't true at all, and there have been a bunch of extremely powerful landmarks. Emperor's Dais is fundamental to Azir Irelia. Veiled Temple and Plaza were both so good they had to be nerfed into nonexistence. Turbo Thralls is being played extensively in masters. Blighted Ravine, Ancient Preparations and Preservarium are all good value and played in competitive decks. There are also Star Spring and Scargrounds, both of which are vital parts of their archetypes even if those archetypes aren't top of the meta currently (which is nothing to do with the merits or otherwise of the Landmark mechanic).
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Jun 25, 2021 20:05
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I feel countdown landmarks can't really be lumped into the same boat as regular landmarks, they don't have the issue of clugging board space forever and most have a good "half now half later" effect. And there are almost no viable none-countdown landmarks above 3 mana that weren't overtuned like veiled temple was. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 20:08
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If you ignore the good landmarks, all the landmarks are bad.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:10
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Name a good landmark above 3 mana?
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Jun 25, 2021 20:11
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:And there are almost no viable none-countdown landmarks above 3 mana that weren't overtuned like veiled temple was. There are 7 non-countdown landmarks above 3 mana. Sure none of them are great (if you exclude old veiled temple which you had to), but I don't really think that proves or disproves anything either way about the mechanic. Like, its a general Runeterra trend that higher cost cards are just worse than cheaper cards anyway. Also I think one of the NA top 32 from seasonals was running a Targon's Peak deck in his lineup lol hit button fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 20:12
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I was kinda overgeneralizing with my statement on landmarks above, there's definitely good ones. But even the good ones share all the same problems as the rest of the landmarks do. They gently caress up your mana curve, kill your overall play momentum, and take up valuable board space. It's not a coincidence that the two champions they tried to focus on landmarks are two of the worst champs in the game currently.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:22
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Taliyah's not even in the bottom half of champs by winrate at the moment on Mobalytics.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:28
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No Wave posted:Taliyah's not even in the bottom half of champs by winrate at the moment on Mobalytics. Well yeah, but she's one of the weakest cards in the decks she's being played in and often left out entirely. Taliyah's issues aren't really related to landmarks though (copying a landmark on play is actually the best thing about her and the reason she's run). hit button fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jun 25, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 21:31
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If landmarks didn't take up board space or you could use spell mana to play them it would massively buff them, being able to use spell mana alone would be a huge boon to scarground decks that could play scarground+minion on 3 instead of needing to find a 1-2 drop or get hit in the face until 4.
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Jun 25, 2021 21:42
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It would buff them massively, but they've not been designed with that in mind and are not even vaguely balanced around that so it would be extremely broken.
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Jun 25, 2021 21:44
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Veiled Temple was good and 4+. It would have still been playable at 5 if they didn't nerf the +1 defense. If they add back +1 defense and remove mana accel it's probably still playable, although I don't know about in the current meta due to the overall power creep. Landmarks have a lot of design issues. Taking up follower spots is a big one, being overpriced because they creature mana instead of spell mana is another, and people feeling really bad about them anytime they are good is a third. The last one is because the meta is always so diverse that you can't justify running landmark hate. Even in a control deck. It's also due to landmarks changing how the game is played but only showing up in some portion of a deck's games.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:06
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Khorne posted:The last one is because the meta is always so diverse that you can't justify running landmark hate. Even in a control deck. It's also due to landmarks changing how the game is played but only showing up in some portion of a deck's games. I feel like landmarks are still a relatively new mechanic, and as more archetypes are added that make use of them we'll start seeing anti-landmark tech become a more justifiable option. It would help if they added a few more options for landmark disruption with the flexibility of, say, scorched earth.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:13
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hit button posted:I feel like landmarks are still a relatively new mechanic, and as more archetypes are added that make use of them we'll start seeing anti-landmark tech become a more justifiable option. It would help if they added a few more options for landmark disruption with the flexibility of, say, scorched earth. Which introduces another problem, if a landmark is just generically good and gives you an immediate payoff then playing hate vs it doesn't feel so great even if it stops additional future value. Enchantments have been a contentious design point in MTG for decades & it's no surprise that LoR's version has all of the same problems.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:28
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Imo it's exacerbated in LoR because removal is weak so not putting beef on the board is a giant problem.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:37
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Khorne posted:This introduces another problem: if your deck needs a landmark to function and it gets hit by hate that's extremely feel bad. Shurima & Ionia have answers to the hate at least. That's only an issue if you have an extremely binary wincon based on your landmark. So far only TK Soraka / Star Spring really has that issue I think. And that's par for the course if you have a wincon based on a vulnerable single point of failure, whether its a landmark or a Fiora or whatever. Like Lurk isn't really going to care that much if you blast their Ripper's Bay, but it will still probably be a good idea to do so if you happen to have some removal in hand and can spare the mana. hit button fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 00:56
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 06:17 |
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post isnt edit
hit button fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 00:58
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