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Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
GURPS as a mechanical system isn't really all that difficult. There's optional rules that can make it more complicated, but it's basically just "roll 3d6. If you roll under your skill, you pass. Otherwise you fail."

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Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

Tibalt posted:

The GURPS original settings are also refreshingly original, in my opinion. For example, while GURPS Voodoo aged pretty poorly, the result was more grounded, more coherent, and a lot more original than World of Darkness.

Edit: THS and Fantasy II (aka The Madlands) also have some problem areas but are also pretty great.

GURPS Voodoo is excellent if really dated, as is Reign of Steel

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

GURPS Voodoo is excellent if really dated, as is Reign of Steel

The GURPS Sourcebooks struck me as "Well, even if you don't play in this setting, if you need to bang out a few pages of research on some subject and don't have internet, you could do worse than reading a GURPS sourcebook."

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

Epicurius posted:

GURPS as a mechanical system isn't really all that difficult. There's optional rules that can make it more complicated, but it's basically just "roll 3d6. If you roll under your skill, you pass. Otherwise you fail."
Yeah, except... well, take a look at the rules for just being Telepathic.

quote:

TELEPATHY
Telepathy is the power of mental communication and control. In most settings, it only works on living, sentient beings such as animals or humans. If for some reason you try to use a telepathic ability on a recording, dummy, etc., your attempt automatically fails.
In most accounts of telepathy, range is highly variable. Telepaths might send signals across the world or even across interplanetary space. The emotional connection between sender and receiver is far more important.

Telepathy Talent
5 points/level
You have a natural talent for Telepathy. You get +1 per level to use any Telepathy ability. You can use earned points to acquire new Telepathy abilities, even if you did not start with them.

Telepathy Abilities
The following advantages can be Telepathy abilities: Animal Empathy (p. 40); Empathy (p. 51); Invisibility (p. 63); Mind Control (p. 68); Mind Probe (p. 69); Mind Reading (p. 69); Mind Shield (p. 70); Mindlink (p. 70); Possession (p. 75); Speak with Animals (p. 87); Special Rapport (p. 88); Telesend (see Telecommunication, p. 91); and Terror (p. 93).
An Affliction (p. 35) or Innate Attack (p. 61) can also qualify if it has the Malediction enhancement (p. 106) and only causes fatigue, stunning, incapacitation, a temporary mental disadvantage, or a DX, IQ, or Will penalty.

Power Modifier: Telepathic. The advantage is a psi ability within the Telepathy power. Anything that blocks Telepathy will block it – in particular Mind Shield – but it can benefit from Telepathy Talent. -10%.
Well that's a lot! I'll just focus on Mind Reading.

quote:

Mind Reading
30 points
You can eavesdrop on others’ surface thoughts. You must be able to see or touch the subject to affect him. Concentrate for one second and roll a Quick Contest of IQ vs. the subject’s Will. Modify the roll for range penalties to the subject (see p. 550).
If you win, you can “hear” everything the subject says, subvocalizes, or actively thinks about as a voice in your head. Received thought comes at the speed of speech. If you do not understand the language, or if your subject isn’t sapient, you only pick up feelings, images, and general intent. You can maintain Mind Reading for as long as you wish without further concentration. If you switch to another person, you must stop reading your current subject and roll a Quick Contest with the new subject. To read multiple subjects at once, take Compartmentalized Mind (p. 43).
If you lose, you may try again, at a cumulative -2 per repeated attempt on that subject in the past hour. Should you critically fail, you cannot read that person again for 24 hours.
Mind Reading is often psionic in origin, but it is just as likely to be a magical, divine, or even technological ability.
The Sense-Based limitation (p. 115) – especially Touch-Based – is common. If you take Hearing-Based, you can only read the thoughts of someone whose words you can hear, but can function as a “truthreader” or (with Universal) a “universal translator.”

Special Enhancements
Cybernetic: You can affect entities with the Digital Mind trait (p. 48), including all ordinary computers. Your IQ roll has a penalty equal to the system’s Complexity. A nonsentient system does not resist; just roll vs. IQ - Complexity to succeed. +50%.
Sensory: You can also tap into your subject’s senses. This lets you experience everything he experiences. If he is tortured, knocked out, or killed, the GM may require a Will roll to avoid stunning – or perhaps even a Fright Check! +20%.
Universal: You automatically understand thoughts, even those of nonsapient subjects and those with whom you do not share a language. +50%.

Special Limitations
Cybernetic Only: As for Cybernetic, but you can only read Digital Minds. -50%.
Racial: Your ability only works on those of your own race or a very similar race (for instance, humans are similar to elves, but not to dogs or trolls). Combine this with the Sense-Based
limitation (Touch or Scent) to represent a race that can share thoughts through biochemical means. -20%.
Sensory Only: As for Sensory, but you can’t read thoughts at all. -20%.
Telecommunication: Your ability only works on those with whom you are presently in contact via Telecommunication (p. 91). -20%.
Telepathic: Your ability is part of the Telepathy psi power (see p. 257). -10%
Okay, well, let's keep it simple and just take the Telepathic limitation on the Mind Reading Advantage (for 27 points). But let's just read up on the Range rules...

quote:

Target’s Speed and Range
In most combat between fighters on foot, and when attacking inanimate objects, you can ignore speed. Simply look up range in yards in the “Linear Measurement” column, and then read across to the “Speed/Range” column to find the speed/range modifier. If the range falls between two values, use the higher; e.g., treat 8 yards as 10 yards.
Note that there is no modifier at ranges of 2 yards or less – shooting a close target is no easier (and no harder) than attacking it in melee combat!
But for fast targets – including anything that requires the High-Speed Movement rules (p. 394) – the GM may rule that speed is important enough to consider. In that case, add speed in yards/second (2 mph = 1 yard/second) to range before looking it up in the “Linear Measurement” column
There's a whooooole chart for that.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Joe Slowboat posted:

I personally want a Dying Earth system game for New Sun, really. But I may have to check out Hellboy GURPS just to see what the lore is like there.

It was called Mike Mignola's Hellboy: Sourcebook and Roleplaying Game, GURPS does not appear in the title. Came out in summer 2002.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
IIRC, a big problem with GURPS is that a lot of GMs weren't able to comprehend that you didn't have to use all the books at the same time.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Soulbound Bestiary

Disciples of Tzeentch Part 2


Gaunt Summoner

The nine Gaunt Summoners are among the highest ranked of Tzeentch's servants, wielding the power to summon forth and bind daemons from the Realm of Chaos. When not in battle or planning their conspiracies, their favorite pastime is to abduct random travelers and imprison them in their Silver Towers. These are filled with puzzles, traps, daemons and arcane machines to test the capabilities of those trapped. But most of the time just horrifically
kill the prisoners for the Gaunt Summoners amusement. In battle they tend to fly on Discs while summoning daemons and warpfire.
Lords of the Silver Towers
The nine Gaunt Summoners are tasked with furthering Tzeentch's intricate plots throughout the realms. Each of the Summoners controls one of the nine Silver Towers which are permeated with change magic. The towers can appear anywhere in the Mortal Realms and leave only madness where they go. The land warps, the light of Hysh fractures into a maddening kaleidoscope of colour, and mortal minds break.
However while they are creations and allies of Tzeentch they currently serve a new master - Archaon the Everchosen, mortal champion of the Dark Gods, who sought and claimed the true names of the Gaunt Summoners and bound them to his will. Tzeentch seems to be content with this currently, but the Summoners themselves hate being controlled by Archaon. So they scheme and wait for the right moment to slip out of his grasp.
A Gaunt Summoner is a Medium Daemon (Disciple of Tzeentch) Chosen. They have Average Defence and Melee, and Good Accuracy they don't use. Light Armour a normal 12 Toughness and 2 Mettle. They can fly with a Disc, and have a good 7 Initiative. For attacks them have a Staff and a Warptongue Blade which is Penetrating and any creature damaged by it has to make a Body (Fortitude) Test or be Incapacitated for a turn (Which is probably the worst condition to be hit by). For Traits we have Additional Limbs Same as the Curseling can dual wield their staff and blade at the same time due to extra arms. Book of Profane Secrets As an action the Gaunt Summoner can summon a swarm of 10 Daemons (Bloodletters, Brimstone Horrors, Daemonettes, or Plaguebearers.) They can only summon one type at a time. If the Doom is 5 or more then the Gaunt Summoner can summon two Swarms. No matter the case this action can only be used once a round. Disc of Tzeentch The Gaunt Summoner can fly around on one and as an action have it attack. Spellcasting Knows the four basic spells and it's own spell Infernal Flames (Picks a Zone in Medium Range does Armour ignoring damage to everyone inside, increasing damage based on successes) can also unbind.

Herald of Tzeentch

Screaming the Heralds lead waves of Tzeentchian Horrors, announcing their arrival with laughers and arcane fire. All are ambitious, clever and capable of changing the tide of a battle. Because Tzeetnch is ever changing one type of Herald was not enough for him, so there many types the most common being the Changecaster, Fateskimmer, and Fluxmaster. Fluxmasters are granted unique Discs to ride, the most common the Changecasters fight alongside the Horrors they lead, while the Fateskimmers command Chariots of Tzeentch, pulled by Screamers desperate to rend flesh. A Herald's general tactic is to get the stronger enemy occupied with them while they direct to troops to overwhelm the weaker foes.
A Herald of Tzeentch is a Medium Daemon (Disciple of Tzeentch) Champion. All of their Combat stats are Good. They have no Armour, 9 Toughness and a Mettle. Their initiative is pretty good at 6. They are armed with a Ritual Dagger, Staff and their Magical Flames a Medium Range Magical attack that Rends. Their Traits are Arcane Tome when the Herald makes a Channelling test they can reroll a die, and Spellcasting They only know 3 of the Basic spells they don't know Aetheric Armour. They can also unbind, and don't have a unique spell.
Heralds are also one of three types who add extra traits depending on which one.
A Changecaster has Fortune and Fate After getting 9 successes on Channelling Tests during combat they can cast a spell as a free action.
A Fateskimmer has Burning Chariot A mount pulled by Screamers giving them a normal flying speed and the ability to have the Screamers attack with a Lamprey Bite which does high damage, and increases Melee to Great if the target is Large or bigger. They also have Wake of Fire whenever it flies through a Zone enemies have to make a Body (Reflexes) Test or suffer 3 damage.
Lastly a Fluxmaster has Disc of Tzeentch same as all the other Discs details, and Blue Fire of Tzeetnch if the Fluxmaster casts a spell that deals damage, it does +1 Damage.

Magister

Magisters are the most powerful mortal mages in Tzeentch's cult. They are gifted various mutations by Tzeentch like avian features, horns, extra eyes and limbs, and revel in passing on mutagenic gifts to others. The most ambitious of them are eventually turned into daemons, and welcome with many fiery arms into Tzeentch's Inner Circle. Because of this ambition and eagerness to gain daemonhood, Magisters have a tendency to delve too deep into their magic and pay the price.
The Magisters are normally found at the center of Tzeentchian cults, weaving complex deceptions and plots to further their master's desires. Many in the cults of Tzeentch never meet a Magister or know they exist. When they do bring their magic to battle, it normally means one of their conspiracies is reaching it's climax.
A Magister is a Medium Mortal (Corrupted by Chaos) Champion. They have Average Melee, and Good Accuracy and Defence. They have an excellent 9 Imitative Medium Armour, 10 Toughness and a Mettle. For attacks they have a Staff and a Warpsteel Sword and if the Sword Mortally Wounds a creature they turn into a Chaos Spawn under the GM's control. If this happens to a player the Doom goes up by 1 as if they died. For traits they have Magic Touched once a turn if they successfully cast a spell they can immediately try and cast another as a free action. The Complexity of the second spell increases by 1 and if the attempt is a failure the Magister turns into a Chaos Spawn. Spellcasting They know all Four basics plus Arcane Wave and their unique Bolt of Change (They pick a target within Long Range and the target suffers damage with each extra successes adding to it. If this mortally wounds a target they turn into a Chaos Spawn same as the Sword. This can also be useful to blast the Magisters weak minions with to turn them into something more threatening). They can also Unbind.

Lord of Change

The Lords of Change the Greater Daemons of Tzeentch, arranged in nine orders of unknowable hierarchies, are Tzeentch's most trusted and powerful generals. They look over the battlefield with their massive size and many eyes, barking order from their beaks. They create arcane whirlwinds when they take flight. More dangerous then their impressive physiques is their powerful magic. They can corrupt Realmgates and open portals to the Realm of Chaos, filling the Mortal Realms with ruin. each of the Lords is wary of the others, as they are all rivals for Tzeentch's favour. While they could be near unstoppble if they worked togeather instead of undermining and spying on each other, Tzeentch prefers to encourage the fighting, which keeps any one of them from overpowering the others.
Along with being his elite commanders, they are the genius schemers behind many of his larger plots. A Lord of Change can lay dormant for centuries, subtly influencing dozens of Arcanite Cults to do their will. But Mortal lives are playthings for the Greater Daemons, who might sever a puppet's strings just to see how it falls.
A Lord of Change is a Enormous Daemon (Disciples of Tzeentch) Chosen. They have Great Melee and Defence, and Extraordinary Accuracy. They have Medium Armour the highest Toughness yet at 46 and 4 Mettle like fellow Greater Daemon the Bloodthirster. They have a Fast Flying Speed and Normal Ground Speed, and one of the Highest Initiatives yet with 12. They have three weapons their Beak and Talons which is their weakest attack but Rends. Their Staff which is their strongest attack and Magical. Lastly they have a Rod of Sorcery a Long Rang Magical Attack that uses their Extraordinary Accuracy. For Traits they have Beacon of Sorcery Allies in the Lord of Changes Zone add +4d6 to Channelling Tests (This includes the Lord of Change, which gives the Lord of change a crazy dice pool of 16d6 for Channelling). Mastery of Magic As a Free Action the Lord of Change can cast a number of spells equal to the Current Doom (This means the Lord of Change get a minimum of 1 Free Spell in addition to the up to 5 they can cast in a round with their Action and Mettle). Nigh Unkillable just to make it tougher. Spell-thief If the Lord of Change Unbinds a spell they can immediately cast the same spell as a free action, or eat the spell to recover Toughness equal to the Difficulty + Complexity of the Spell (A 5:2 spell for example would be 7). Spellcasting They have the Four Basics the unbind and their unique spell Infernal Gateway (They pick a large or smaller creature, they have to make a Body (Reflexes) Test or be sucked into the Realm of Chaos until the Lord of Change's next turn. Extra successes increase the Duration. When they come back they show up in the spot they vanished and suffer 9 damage.

Ogroid Thaumaturge

Hulking, horned sorcerers with magic runes embedded in their skin, which naturally makes them a pretty intimidating sight. While they are powerful mages, they are feared by other cultists due to having a reclusive nature and a short violent temper. They are particularly renowned for their ability to wield wyrdflame, creating shapes in it that reflect Tzeentch's majesty.
The Thaumaturges are venerated by Tzaangors in particular due to their large build, erudite speeches, and magical might. Mortal cults who like wyrdfalme like the Pyrofane also revere the Thaumaturges as examples of Tzeentch's might. The Gaunt Summoners view them as useful tools, and Magisters approach them with caution. The Ogroid Thaumaturges are for the most part happy to work with Gaunt summoners, lairing in their Silver Towers, while other tend to go off on their own to lead cults. None of them particularly like Peace however, for they always desire to show off their magical and martial prowess.
An Ogroid Thaumaturge is a Large Mortal (Corrupted by Chaos) Champion. They have Superb Melee, and Great Defence. Their Armour is 1 plus the current Doom, and they have a great for their size 26 Toughness and 1 Mettle. Their Initiative is a fairly average 4. They have three weapons, their Hooves which deal extra damage when used as part of a Charge, their Horns which deal the most damage and Rend, and their Staff which has Cleave. For their Traits they have Night Unkillable, Brutal Rage When below max Toughness they increase their Melee one step. Mighty Rampage If they take the Charge Action and use their Hooves they add an extra 2d6 to the Dice Pool for a total of +3d6. Plus any creature hit by the Charge is knocked Prone. Lastly they have Spellcasting They know all the Basics minus Aetheric Armour (Which they don't really need) and they can Unbind. Their unique spell is Choking Tendrils (They pick a creature in Medium Range the target has to make a Body (Might) Test or be Restrained until the Thaumaturges next turn. Extra Successes increase the Duration. The Ogroid Thaumaturge heals Toughness equal to the current Doom while a Creature is Restrained by the Spell).

Next Time the Hedonites of Slaanesh.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Tibalt posted:

Yeah, except... well, take a look at the rules for just being Telepathic.

Well that's a lot! I'll just focus on Mind Reading.

Okay, well, let's keep it simple and just take the Telepathic limitation on the Mind Reading Advantage (for 27 points). But let's just read up on the Range rules...

There's a whooooole chart for that.

So easier than Rogue Trader, huh? :v:

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

JcDent posted:

So easier than Rogue Trader, huh? :v:

I mean most things are easier than Rogue Trader.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Tibalt posted:

Yeah, except... well, take a look at the rules for just being Telepathic.

Well that's a lot! I'll just focus on Mind Reading.

Okay, well, let's keep it simple and just take the Telepathic limitation on the Mind Reading Advantage (for 27 points). But let's just read up on the Range rules...

There's a whooooole chart for that.

I agree that its a lot of words, but really, if you look at it, what you quoted isn't mechanically hard. It's, figure our how far you are from the other person, use the chart to convert the distance into a modifier, and then roll a contested roll against your opponent and apply the modifier.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I accept that I could play GURPS and not use all those rules. But I could also just play a game that doesn't have them? Like, what's the draw of the core system? Is 3d6 roll-under the most elegant bell curve or something?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Halloween Jack posted:

I accept that I could play GURPS and not use all those rules. But I could also just play a game that doesn't have them? Like, what's the draw of the core system? Is 3d6 roll-under the most elegant bell curve or something?

It's reasonably elegant, the thing about GURPS is if you have something in particular that you want, it's more of an RPG construction kit than an RPG itself. It puts a lot of work on the person running it to really adjust things to what they want.

It comes from an era when RPG designers tried to quantify exactly how a fight between Captain America and the Flash would go(please do not provide answers to this), and assign points to these things, and GURPS is a somewhat generic-fied version of that.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Yeah, that's kind of my issue with it. I'm sure it depends on the game, being a universal system and all. But for example, I was really interested in the Psychic Wars PBP here on the forums, but I soon figured out that I just didn't know enough about the rules modules involved, even if they weren't designing powers and vehicles from the ground up. I don't think I could just jump into a Hero System game, either.

Part of the reason I'm interested in D&D/OSR as a base is that classes and levels have their uses. I've had problems in Mutants & Masterminds and Silver Age Sentinels where it's like "Here's a big pool of points, make whatever you want, hope you don't accidentally design a character that's way too powerful here and way too weak over here."

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 25, 2021

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Ghost Leviathan posted:

IIRC, a big problem with GURPS is that a lot of GMs weren't able to comprehend that you didn't have to use all the books at the same time.

You also don't even have to use all of one book! The earlier bare essentials is still more than the actual core; you have four stats, roll 3d6 to roll under your stats. Everything on top of that - even the player-facing point system, thanks to templates and lenses - is purely optional. Just because it exists in the same book as options you're using doesn't mean it has to show up.

I still don't personally use GURPS (I've never found a good substitute for the one-second combat turns, and I find them too slow for my groups), but I respected it a lot more after figuring that out.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

SkyeAuroline posted:

You also don't even have to use all of one book! The earlier bare essentials is still more than the actual core; you have four stats, roll 3d6 to roll under your stats. Everything on top of that - even the player-facing point system, thanks to templates and lenses - is purely optional. Just because it exists in the same book as options you're using doesn't mean it has to show up.

I still don't personally use GURPS (I've never found a good substitute for the one-second combat turns, and I find them too slow for my groups), but I respected it a lot more after figuring that out.

Yeah if someone wanted to do GURPS and wasn't very specific in what they were doing to the point of doing a lot of limiting in character creation, creating packages of advantages for things, etc, I would not do it. GURPS is a construction kit, imo, playing it straight out of the books is just boring a f, at that point yeah i'd rather play d&d where i can just pick 'elf' rather than working on the advantages/disadvantages of being an elf in GURPS.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

Panzeh posted:

Yeah if someone wanted to do GURPS and wasn't very specific in what they were doing to the point of doing a lot of limiting in character creation, creating packages of advantages for things, etc, I would not do it. GURPS is a construction kit, imo, playing it straight out of the books is just boring a f, at that point yeah i'd rather play d&d where i can just pick 'elf' rather than working on the advantages/disadvantages of being an elf in GURPS.

I did reach the decision that if I ever ran it I'd run it by templates and lenses instead of pure point buy, as much as that increases the up-front workload. Makes it a hell of a lot easier on players and reins in the balance some.

I still have no idea what I'd rather use GURPS for than anything else barring some weird edge cases where other systems get really close but not on point, and the combat is always going to push me away. But it does make a very good reference for running some of those other systems at least.

El Spamo
Aug 21, 2003

Fuss and misery
SJ Games has introduced a few PDF sets now that are tightly (more or less) genre focused and deliberately omit a lot of rules that are complicated or inappropriate to the genre. Probably the most successful of those is the Dungeon Fantasy series. Refines the ruleset to ditch all the weird psi/tech stuff and focuses the explanations on slaying monsters in dungeons. I really like how GURPS is the RPG system equivalent of a giant tub of legos, but it's a really good idea for the future of it to showcase specific subsets of the system that support a genre and actually show what a pared down ruleset looks like to do something like superspies or a space opera. I think as a player GURPS isn't so bad because it really does come down to precalculating a bunch of numbers and rolling 3d6. For a GM however, it's got a demonic learning curve, and the system demands that you add your own flavor.

Another thing I like about GURPS is that once you do get comfortable saying 'no' to a specific rule or ability, then when you do run into something that's not quite balanced or messes with the dynamics of the game, it's really easy to say "psychic powers are out" or "no millionaire's please" and cut out the problem. It's hard to say in 5e or whatever "no wizards" or disallow illusion spells without it feeling like you've lobotomized the system, whereas GURPS you can trim out almost the entire system and it still feels like a game.

I also really like Lancer, Savage Worlds, and I'm looking forward to a friend's Fate game so I'm not a total GURPS fanboy. But definitely a GURPS fanboy.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
Well, GURPS Degenesis would be easier than running the game itself, especially considering that I'd have to prune the setting either way :v

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


Talk about a job that's its own reward, I hate Degen and editing stuff but I'd gladly accept a job to prune it down just for the Satisfaction of removing some toxic junk from the hobby.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Panzeh posted:

Yeah if someone wanted to do GURPS and wasn't very specific in what they were doing to the point of doing a lot of limiting in character creation, creating packages of advantages for things, etc, I would not do it. GURPS is a construction kit, imo, playing it straight out of the books is just boring a f, at that point yeah i'd rather play d&d where i can just pick 'elf' rather than working on the advantages/disadvantages of being an elf in GURPS.

Pretty much this. GURPS is Generic Universal Role-Playing System. The idea is that you can use it to play and run any kind of game that you want. However, before you get into the system, you first need to decide exactly what kind of game you want to run and then use the stuff from GURPS to build it. Like if you to play Elves in a D&D world, just play D&D. If you want to do Vampires, play WoD. But you want to do Cybernetic Elven Vampire Space Pirates, that's when you use GURPS.

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Everyone posted:

But you want to do Cybernetic Elven Vampire Space Pirates, that's when you use GURPS.

Wouldn't it still be easier to use Rogue Trader and have everyone roll up Dark Eldar characters? :v:

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

PeterWeller posted:

Wouldn't it still be easier to use Rogue Trader and have everyone roll up Dark Eldar characters? :v:

Probably. But figure the other reason to use GURPS is if you don't have copies of every game ever written.

For my part I liked Powered by the Apocalypse systems like Dungeon World, Monster of the Week and Worlds in Peril.

The only game I've had experience with that was more teeth-shatteringly crunchy than GURPS was JAGS.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

Everyone posted:

Probably. But figure the other reason to use GURPS is if you don't have copies of every game ever written.

For my part I liked Powered by the Apocalypse systems like Dungeon World, Monster of the Week and Worlds in Peril.

The only game I've had experience with that was more teeth-shatteringly crunchy than GURPS was JAGS.

The most teeth-shatteringly crunchy games I've played/GMed have to be: Morrow Project, Stalking the Night Fantastic/Bureau 13, Space Opera, Aftermath, Daredevils, Living Steel, and Fringeworthy...GURPS doesn't even come close to any of those.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

The most teeth-shatteringly crunchy games I've played/GMed have to be: Morrow Project, Stalking the Night Fantastic/Bureau 13, Space Opera, Aftermath, Daredevils, Living Steel, and Fringeworthy...GURPS doesn't even come close to any of those.

Never played those. I do recall one of the jokes in my former gaming group was referring one fantasy-style game as Rolemaster: The Accounting.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

The most teeth-shatteringly crunchy games I've played/GMed have to be: Morrow Project, Stalking the Night Fantastic/Bureau 13, Space Opera, Aftermath, Daredevils, Living Steel, and Fringeworthy...GURPS doesn't even come close to any of those.

My memory of GURPS is that 90% of the crunch is during chargen and figuring out all the derived values and what you can actually buy due to loving cost modifiers loving things up, but then if you actually manage to kick your way through that and have a sheet full of those values, the actual gameplay is notably less crunchtastic.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

PeterWeller posted:

Wouldn't it still be easier to use Rogue Trader and have everyone roll up Dark Eldar characters? :v:

Refer to

Josef bugman posted:

I mean most things are easier than Rogue Trader.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


So does that mean that GURPS is basically the ideal for crunch, in that you get out of it more than the effort you have to give?
Or is it better to grab a minimal system off itch.io and build on that?

PoontifexMacksimus
Feb 14, 2012

In my experience, GURPS is never the best choice for RPGing anything, but sometimes for specific subgenres its the only choice

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

PurpleXVI posted:

My memory of GURPS is that 90% of the crunch is during chargen and figuring out all the derived values and what you can actually buy due to loving cost modifiers loving things up, but then if you actually manage to kick your way through that and have a sheet full of those values, the actual gameplay is notably less crunchtastic.

It's a lot like Mongoose traveller in that regard. Chargen is practically a minigame in and of itself, but the way the game works is actually really simple. And yeah, GURPS can be even simpler if the DM does some homework before to make packages and structures for chargen for the campaign they're trying to make instead of having the players manage the whole catalog of things to buy with points.

PoontifexMacksimus posted:

In my experience, GURPS is never the best choice for RPGing anything, but sometimes for specific subgenres its the only choice

And yeah, a friend of mine is working on a GURPS fantasy game that could probably be done fine in Worlds Without Number but he doesn't want to go through searching for the right retroclone type fantasy game for what he wants.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Unless everyone at the table is a grizzled veteran of GURPS the GM definitely has to limit the design space. If the players will go along with it, pregens are the best way to start players completely new to the system, trying to spend a few dozen points on advantaged can take hours if they're confronted with the whole set to choose from.

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!
So basically the GM does one or two session 0s to make the char for me? Neat!

sasha_d3ath
Jun 3, 2016

Ban-thing the man-things.
Fatal & Friends 2021: Oops! All GURPS

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Everyone posted:

Never played those. I do recall one of the jokes in my former gaming group was referring one fantasy-style game as Rolemaster: The Accounting.

The dudes I played with in the 90s called it either Rollmaster or Rulemaster.


JcDent posted:

Refer to

Good point. GURPS does try to be most things.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



JcDent posted:

So basically the GM does one or two session 0s to make the char for me? Neat!

I only did it for a stable play group that would get some return on the time investment. I'd never try GURPS with a bunch of one shot randos around the table.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
Presented without further comment, here are three assorted pages from Stalking the Night Fantastic (aka Bureau 13 1st edition). copyright Tri Tac games 1983





Anfauglir
Jun 8, 2007
I especially like how they get the multiple hit modifiers wrong in the example.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
I should probably do an effort post on Tri Tac Games (Fringeworthy, Stalking, FTL 2448, et al.) they all used the same systems and they were all interesting but awful to run. Richard Tucholka was also one of the Detroit Crew responsible for The Morrow Project. He wasn't affiliated with the other Detroiter, Kevin Siembada, and Palladium though, but I know they gamed together in the late-70s early 80s.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Panzeh posted:

And yeah, a friend of mine is working on a GURPS fantasy game that could probably be done fine in Worlds Without Number but he doesn't want to go through searching for the right retroclone type fantasy game for what he wants.

How does the thread feel about Kevin Crawford’s stuff, in general? I’m a fan of both Stars and Worlds Without Number, along with his older stuff like Silent Legions and Spears of the Dawn. Godbound seems cool, but I’ve never been a big fan of such powerful fantasy genres. The man is a content-generating machine from what I can tell.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Pvt.Scott posted:

How does the thread feel about Kevin Crawford’s stuff, in general? I’m a fan of both Stars and Worlds Without Number, along with his older stuff like Silent Legions and Spears of the Dawn. Godbound seems cool, but I’ve never been a big fan of such powerful fantasy genres. The man is a content-generating machine from what I can tell.

I'm a great fan of the fiction and concepts accompanying the games, absolutely an anti-fan of the relatively dogshit systems they're bound to, though. Godbound is borderline unplayable because of the bad system.

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SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020

PurpleXVI posted:

I'm a great fan of the fiction and concepts accompanying the games, absolutely an anti-fan of the relatively dogshit systems they're bound to, though. Godbound is borderline unplayable because of the bad system.

I don't feel as strongly about it as Purple does but I broadly agree with this, with the exception of Godbound because the alternative is loving Exalted.

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