|
Beast Wars was the best Transformers. -Made using state of the art animation techniques by the pioneers of 3D graphics. Not cheap cheap animation, rushed to get out for the next toyline. -No human characters. (The humans who do show up lasted one or two episodes and couldn't speak.) -Wasn't afraid to get weird with it. -Had an actual ending rather than just getting cancelled because of failing toy sales and studio bankruptcy.
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 06:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:52 |
|
|
I remember beast wars being so sick and so unwatchable due to being pre DVR/streaming/easy TV piracy that for one of my birth days my mom got me like some guys VHS/DVD copies of the show he taped. Ty mom The episode where Dinobot merc'd all the decepticons is still one of my all time favs
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 06:30
|
|
|
No joke I bet the massive success of Jurassic Park is like 60% of the reason Beast Wars exists. "Our car robot toy don't sell anymore." "Yeah instead kids really like this dinosaur movie that's out right now." And then someones eyes lit up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 10:27
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:Kellogg did that, but he was also a terrible terrible man Oh yeah, I have a small niece who is freaking OBSESSED with the Trolls movies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 10:59
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:No joke I bet the massive success of Jurassic Park is like 60% of the reason Beast Wars exists. They probably realised this midproduction since Megatron and Primal were originally alligator and bat. When they're making the cartoon, they likely noticed there were not many ways of making alligator vs bat look good and Jurassic Park along with King Kong gave them ideas. Nonetheless it is true that the 90s were the heydays of creature/character toys instead of vehicles since figures were more articulated and easily posed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 12:51
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:They probably realised this midproduction since Megatron and Primal were originally alligator and bat. When they're making the cartoon, they likely noticed there were not many ways of making alligator vs bat look good and Jurassic Park along with King Kong gave them ideas. Nonetheless it is true that the 90s were the heydays of creature/character toys instead of vehicles since figures were more articulated and easily posed. Optimus Prime as a bat is... certainly an idea. I mean, a gorilla is pretty much a slam dunk for a character defined by being huge, strong, yet gentle, reasonable and soft-spoken. And something similar for Megatron. They even had precedent, with the Dinobots and all. Of course, Beast Wars was also built around the strengths and weaknesses of CGI. Character models being easier to animate but a large up front cost, so you have a smaller cast and much more focus on character and long-term story. They still haven't really managed the Uncanny Valley? No problem- there's no recognisable human characters. (at first)
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 13:57
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:not many ways of making alligator vs bat look good I always hate that excuse. YOU'RE the creator. It's your job to figure out HOW TO MAKE IT look good. Not many doesn't mean "none"
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:Is it even possible for Mighty Max to age, since the series is a time loop? No idea, to be honest. I'm not up on the lore of Mighty Max.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 14:08
|
|
|
The follow-up, Beast Machines, was just bleak and kind of dumb. Even less characters, unless you count thousands of mooks who all look the same.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 14:15
|
|
|
WonkyBob posted:No idea, to be honest. I'm not up on the lore of Mighty Max. The cartoon is apparently wild, especially for its era.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:The follow-up, Beast Machines, was just bleak and kind of dumb. Even less characters, unless you count thousands of mooks who all look the same. Although it was funny how it was the one Transformers series that didn't seem to care about the toys since the animal bodies weren't designed to transform and instead just kind of morphed into their other form.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
BioEnchanted posted:I always hate that excuse. YOU'RE the creator. It's your job to figure out HOW TO MAKE IT look good. Not many doesn't mean "none" The CGI budget limitation is a big factor. The first season had barely any scenes of water and took place mostly on rocky ground and grasslands; not the idle places for a gator and even worse when your nemesis can literally fly around you indignantly. They would have to make Megatron one of those prehistoric crocs that lived on land and at that point it's easier just to make him a T.rex. Also animating a bat at rest doing anything but hanging upside down probably is not as easy as a human-like gorilla. The wings would probably clip everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:10
|
|
|
(animating an alligator with early 2000s cg. It walks a bit then opens and closes its mouth a few times) my job is done
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:17
|
|
|
There's something coldly brilliant about the Beast Wars CGI. Since early CGI made everyone look like a plastic dolls, just have the cast be action figures.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:18
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:There's something coldly brilliant about the Beast Wars CGI. Since early CGI made everyone look like a plastic dolls, just have the cast be action figures. I think it was the first to use multiple light sources and shadowing. Could be wrong, Spot the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiARsQSlzDc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N78ZX9NfKwo
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:There's something coldly brilliant about the Beast Wars CGI. Since early CGI made everyone look like a plastic dolls, just have the cast be action figures. I mean, isn't that basically why Pixar's first feature film was Toy Story?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:46
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:I mean, isn't that basically why Pixar's first feature film was Toy Story? It's neat to read about how much of pixar history and animation history in general boils down to "we invested money in this new animation technique so our next movie is going to have a premise that showcases that technique" I would bet money that in the next few years there will be a pixar movie about fire, or where the characters are fires or fight fires or otherwise have to hang out in a place a bunch of fire simulation is happening.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 16:53
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's neat to read about how much of pixar history and animation history in general boils down to "we invested money in this new animation technique so our next movie is going to have a premise that showcases that technique" Dragons, yo. A lot of the early CGI shows play to the strengths of the medium; Reboot, the other big one, literally features computer people, that the audience will forgive looking like video game characters because they pretty much literally are. Lesser known ones like Shadow Raiders/War Planets have explicitly nonhuman characters (mostly) and Insektors (anyone remember that one?) has, well, insects. It's only smart to build your story around the strengths of the medium. And I could, and have, made huge fuckin effortposts about the various Zoids animes, which use 3D exclusively for the titular giant animal robots and it works really well because they focus on the details, everything from recoil to solid designs to, probably most importantly, sound design.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 17:11
|
|
|
Don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this, but the emphasis on simulation in VFX often runs into John Frankenheimer's observation that "reality... can be very boring". There's always too much smoke and not enough fire, especially when simulating explosions. Whenever a ship blows up in The Force Awakens, it looks like it runs on diesel with billowing black smoke clouds, and several recent-ish disaster movies have had their destruction obscured by realistic-but-dull wafting particulates. Give me ridiculously oversized Hollywood fireballs, dammit!
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:The cartoon is apparently wild, especially for its era. It really was. One of my favorites when I was a kid. And this coming from a tie-in to a Polly Pocket ripoff for boys.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
AceOfFlames posted:It really was. One of my favorites when I was a kid. And this coming from a tie-in to a Polly Pocket ripoff for boys. I still remember then why fall into a pit of brains it owned
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:The follow-up, Beast Machines, was just bleak and kind of dumb. Even less characters, unless you count thousands of mooks who all look the same. The first episode was amazing but after that was a massive drop off in quality. Beast Wars was a fun watch in college with the nostalgia while doing something new, but Beast Machines just made me stop watching after a few weeks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
Beast Machines was a lovely follow up to Beast Wars but at least it introduced me to Leftfield.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 03:32
|
|
|
Speaking of bats, after Jurassic Park the next Universal movie crossover with Transformers is apparently Dracula.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:Speaking of bats, after Jurassic Park the next Universal movie crossover with Transformers is apparently Dracula. For a toy, not a movie, and Dracula transformer is a long established side character
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 04:17
|
|
|
I'm part of a very specific micro-generation, encompassing an age range of perhaps 2-3 years, that only knew Transformers from Beast Wars. We were way too young for the Transformers of the 80's and thought them old fashioned. We were way too old for the Transformers movies and thought that they were for kids. I remember being in my 20's and so sad the new movies weren't a Beast Wars adaptation. Still waiting on my Dinobot movie 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 04:51
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:For a toy, not a movie, and Dracula transformer is a long established side character Okay first, why is Dracula a side character in Transformers? Besides the two obvious answers (because Dracula is cool/the writer thought it was funny) Second, why the gently caress are you coming here and shattering my dreams of giant robots fighting Dracula on the big screen?! How dare you. I'm very sad now
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 05:04
|
|
|
This concept art from an unproduced figure appeared and then it sort of took a life of its own https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dracula There was also concept art of The Creature and The Fly
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 05:08
|
|
|
Cubix had a vampire robot. Kilobot, who drained other robots' energy and gained their powers, the first guy he eats is literally a theme park robot who plays a Dracula to entertain children, so he gains the appearance and mannerisms of a vampire to go with his power.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 05:17
|
|
|
If we're sharing our personal cartoon robot draculas, I'm partial to NOS-4-A2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 05:28
|
|
|
Who could forget this classic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXd9x12zn5c Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm part of a very specific micro-generation, encompassing an age range of perhaps 2-3 years, that only knew Transformers from Beast Wars. We were way too young for the Transformers of the 80's and thought them old fashioned. We were way too old for the Transformers movies and thought that they were for kids. Well the new movie could have Dinobot since the director grew up on Beast Wars and said a fan favorite character have not been revealed yet. Of course this might also be T.rex Megatron since the only 3 Beast Wars characters officially in the movie are Primal, Rhinox, and Airrazor.  "Scourge" there has the incorrect picture. Instead of the nobody Beast Wars character, it sounds like a combination of the anime Scourges from Robots In Disguise 2001 (black truck that's basically an evil clone of Optimus) and Transformers Cybertron (a dragon). Nightbird is funny since she's a man-made robot that was in one episode of the original cartoon that fans latched on to and shipped with Megatron for some reason. She's literally a lifeless robot, not a character, but than later continuities made her into an actual Transformer. This one apparently transforms into a Nissan Skyline. This is important because most existing Transfomers Crossover toys have been modified from pre-existing toys. You know what Universal franchise has Nissan Skyline cars featured prominently? Fast & Furious. (Note that the Bumblebee movie also gave us muscle car Transformers toys that could be modified into a Dodge car)
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 05:44
|
|
|
Best Wars was one of those shows I was a liiittle too old for when it was airing, but I ended up watching occasionally because it was so much better than it had any right to be.
feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jun 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 12:06
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:The first episode was amazing but after that was a massive drop off in quality. Beast Wars was a fun watch in college with the nostalgia while doing something new, but Beast Machines just made me stop watching after a few weeks. Beast Machines is terribly frustrating as a follow up to Beast Wars for a number of reasons (Hey kids, remember those characters you liked? Well they're all assholes to each other now) but mostly because out of all the Transformers cartoons and movies, it was the one that tried the hardest to be something more than just a toy commercial. They had big ideas for a kid's show for that time and it's a shame their execution was so stilted and boring. My own feelings about the show are steeped in a sort of hosed up nostalgia for it since Beast Machines, along with Voyager were both on Wednesday nights and often the only highlight of my lovely week as a kid at that point. I think it's still worth a watch for aesthetic reasons since the show's got quite a mood or if you're invested in seeing how the Beast Wars era continues and ends. The circumstances in the mid 90's that led to Beasties being the weird little sci fi show for kids that it was don't exist anymore and I doubt can be faithfully replicated by a massive hollywood project, and since they're already making new Beast Wars stuff for old nerds like me who are desperately clinging to whatever scraps of joy they can hang on to from simpler days I feel oddly unemotional about the movie news Tighclops fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Jun 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
joylessdivision posted:Okay first, why is Dracula a side character in Transformers? Besides the two obvious answers (because Dracula is cool/the writer thought it was funny) Is that weird? Transformers is a series that will cross over with literally anything. There is like millenium falcon transformers and chun li transformers and stuff. Why is there ninja turtle toys they are cav men or civil war soldiers or clowns? I think all long running toy series just eventually make everything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 12:32
|
|
|
Also, Dracula is public domain and an iconic figure, anything that wants to use him can. Transformers has never really been a franchise to limit itself to anything besides budget, it's only the more recent shows that have narrowed the tone exclusively to the Transformers themselves and Earth. Pretty much every other incarnation has had crazy poo poo; G1 in particular is all over the place with different aliens and an implied shared universe with GI Joe, the comics went all out with drat near everything Hasbro owned except My Little Pony (and apparently something with that is in the pipeline), there's non-Cybertronian aliens, time travel, human supervillains, Atlantis, gods, and a lot of things that are even to the Cybertronians basically magic which they don't understand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 13:02
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:This concept art from an unproduced figure appeared and then it sort of took a life of its own It looks like Batula gives two thumbs up while flying 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 13:10
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Also, Dracula is public domain and an iconic figure, anything that wants to use him can. There's already a MLP-Transformers crossover comic. You forget to mention that the original Marvel comics also exist in the same universe as Marvel characters (originally Earth-616 but they have retconned it to an alternate universe).
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 13:36
|
|
|
The only crossover Dracula should be in is with Moon Knight:
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 14:15
|
|
|
Just make a "new" reanimated version of Beast Wars that keeps all the audio and stories the same.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 17:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:52 |
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:This concept art from an unproduced figure appeared and then it sort of took a life of its own I have never been more furious a toy does not exist. I would own like 3 of those loving things. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Is that weird? Transformers is a series that will cross over with literally anything. There is like millenium falcon transformers and chun li transformers and stuff. I assumed it was one of those things that happened in some weird TF comic I never read. And yeah, I know TF and TMNT basically crossed over with everything, it's just still very jarring whenever I see a new "Transformers meets X" and it's like Star Trek or something and I'm just like  Childrens toys from the 80s are wild as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2021 18:14
|
|