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Skwirl posted:If you use official tools to create a mod I'm pretty sure they all include a clause in the EULA saying the company that made the game owns everything you make in their tools. As far as I am aware, the company behind Nexus has nothing to do with Bethesda, so why exactly should they behave as if they own every mod that was uploaded on their site? Like there is this argument that mod authors don't really own mods they create and that's fine and all, but a third-party hosting site has even less of a claim on them than the modders do. (Funnily enough, modders not owning mods mean that any clause they have to consent to when uploading mods to Nexus is completely ignorable because they are not the owners of what is getting uploaded...  )
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Jun 30, 2021 23:07
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Another thing about ownership is that even if the modders sign away their ownership of the mod itself, it might not apply to any assets used in the mods. If the license agreements specify that the assets too belong to the game company, every modder using assets they don't own the full IP of would be liable a stupid amount of fraud.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:22
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Lt. Lizard posted:As far as I am aware, the company behind Nexus has nothing to do with Bethesda, so why exactly should they behave as if they own every mod that was uploaded on their site? I was going off "what if an official paid DLC uses your mod" which has maybe already happened. https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4svpgr/bethesda_steals_a_fallout_new_vegas_mod_named/ I haven't played any Fallout 4 so I don't know how similar the mod and DLC are first hand.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:41
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Rectus posted:Another thing about ownership is that even if the modders sign away their ownership of the mod itself, it might not apply to any assets used in the mods. If the license agreements specify that the assets too belong to the game company, every modder using assets they don't own the full IP of would be liable a stupid amount of fraud. Yeah, CDProject let's you port Witcher armor into any game as a free mod, but Bethesda can't include it in any of their games without writing a check.
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Jun 30, 2021 23:43
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Skwirl posted:I was going off "what if an official paid DLC uses your mod" which has maybe already happened. Only the basic outline of one questline in the DLC was similar to the mod.
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Jul 1, 2021 00:46
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You're agreeing to the hosting site's own terms of service. If you host on Nexus now, it means that every version of your mod will now be held open in perpetuity for access? This is pretty much a boon for anyone that actually uses mods. There are a number of times when to use a certain mod, I have to use another that the author has locked behind a wall. You can say that's their right, but not if they want to host on that platform. The option is to remove themselves from the site and host it else where, I am imagining?
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Jul 1, 2021 01:30
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The Iron Rose posted:a long long time ago, in a far more conservative, self hating queer time in my life. i'm much happier, left wing in general, and accept myself now. I deeply regret the time spent there, and haven't been involved with any of that alt-right poo poo in the better part of a decade oh wow, i'm glad to hear that! i'm sorry i made assumptions about your current circumstances.
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Jul 1, 2021 02:00
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The Iron Rose posted:Just because you upload something to the internet does not mean you do not retain rights over how it is used. I consent to the Nexus having control of my poo poo as part of their Terms of Service, but that doesn't mean I consent to, idk, the Stormfront Mod Forum hosting it. Right, but I'm not talking about legally. I'm talking about how the internet just simply works. You put your stuff out there, especially for people to use, and suddenly copies are everywhere. Even if you have legal control of its usage and distribution, once it's out there in the open, you can't actually destroy all copies. My point is that the only way to actually be able to take your ball and go home in all aspects with mods is to never release the mod to the public in the first place. There are inherent risks and realities that come with making a piece of work publically available, especially in a medium where lossless copies are the norm.
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Jul 1, 2021 02:48
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If you don’t wanna be remembered forever as the guy who put moon sized tits and prepubescent faces on every character in the Elder Scrolls franchise maybe just don’t do that thing in the first place.
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Jul 1, 2021 06:48
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Schubalts posted:Only the basic outline of one questline in the DLC was similar to the mod. it's a bit more than a basic outline. an entire scene was pretty handily taken and shortened from the mod, IE the robot showing you the paintings and asking for your opinion on them. The worst part is the DLC quest doesn't even have a proper ending structure, it just ends abruptly.
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Jul 1, 2021 06:52
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https://www.nexusmods.com/news/14538 Aw man, the nexus backed down on no-deletions for a month. We're going to see a frankly massive amount of mods disappear into the void all because a bunch of people threw hissy fits about modpacks. Might want to back up the unofficial patches.
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Jul 1, 2021 16:15
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hope we don't lose this one
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Jul 1, 2021 17:06
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Iamgoofball posted:https://www.nexusmods.com/news/14538 Giving people, who often uploaded their mods on Nexus years before someone began to even think about permanently hosted mods, a window to withdraw them, if they disagree about the idea of their work being permanently online is cool and good, actually.
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Jul 1, 2021 17:50
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Skwirl posted:If you use official tools to create a mod I'm pretty sure they all include a clause in the EULA saying the company that made the game owns everything you make in their tools. Yeah, honestly it's this. Anyhow, I have no issue with anything anyone does with the mods I've created and uploaded, because at the end of the day, I made them for me, not for internet points, I just upload them because maybe somebody else might like them too. Honestly, the best possible thing that could happen would be for this to irreparably damage the nexus modder community, because it's a horrible community, because the nexus itself has made it so, by encouraging Arthmoor and Arthmoor-like behavior with their policies, including but not limited to removing the ability to rate mods as less-than-perfect scores were seen as trolling*, encouraging a "modders rights" attitude that basically has every modder sitting eternally atop their mods, Smaug-style, and allowing established modders treat other users like garbage. In addition, I feel that the Nexus is basically profiting from and contributing to mental health issues, as it's pretty obvious from some modders behavior that what fuels their modding and behavior around their mods is mentally unhealthy. I have a few specific modders in mind, the only one I'll mention by name is EnaiSiaion, it's quite clear there are some issues there (even though their mods are incredibly good.) So in the end, gently caress the nexus. *at one point, Dark0ne posted a long article to this effect, but I've been unable to find it again. Skwirl posted:I was going off "what if an official paid DLC uses your mod" which has maybe already happened. I dont know why everyone jumps to this one, when The Autmatron DLC is a complete copy of Robco Certified, and the whole loving settlement system is a copy of Wasteland Defense. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 18:18
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Lt. Lizard posted:Giving people, who often uploaded their mods on Nexus years before someone began to even think about permanently hosted mods, a window to withdraw them, if they disagree about the idea of their work being permanently online is cool and good, actually. I'm with this, tbh. Anyways they've made the opt out process onerous to go through - you have to manually email, and then reply to a forum's PM. It's not exactly a button. I suspect there won't be all that many. Not sure I love the dark pattern here, but it's very very good they gave people at least this limited time to opt out. They also sent all mod authors an email about it too, which is still the bare minimum but good regardless. also the comments section is really funny. the amount of people who are aghast the nexus wants to make money is really funny. I'm happy for them, and I think they're making the right set of decisions. They need to be able to profit off of the service they provide, and I hope that collections, modlists, new features, and eradicating technical debt allow them to do so. They certainly cannot stay forever beholden to the demands of entitled often literal children when they have a business to run. The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 1, 2021 |
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Jul 1, 2021 19:02
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Cat Army 
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Agents are GO! posted:I dont know why everyone jumps to this one, when The Autmatron DLC is a complete copy of Robco Certified, and the whole loving settlement system is a copy of Wasteland Defense. Those seem like much more general concepts. It would be like saying Fallout 4 ripped off any mods that expanded gun modding.
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Jul 1, 2021 22:57
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John Murdoch posted:Those seem like much more general concepts. It would be like saying Fallout 4 ripped off any mods that expanded gun modding. [weapon modding] is a basic concept though, [trying to shoehorn a basebuilder/RTS feature into a Bethesda-engine, with insanely bad UI] is a lot more specific.
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Jul 1, 2021 23:44
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Yeah, settlement building was too loving specific and weirdly out of place to not be a ripped off idea. I mean, I don't care that they did it. But they did it.
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Jul 1, 2021 23:48
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I mean this is a fruitless argument, but also lol considering that many many many games also have settlement systems and nobody’s saying they’re copying anyone. Just because a mod that does a similar thing doesn’t mean the mod author owns the idea in perpetuity. until actual assets were stolen, or unless the copying was much more egregious than any of these examples are, I’m not convinced. There are a lot of similar themes in the world, doesn’t make every use of them intellectual property theft.
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Jul 1, 2021 23:53
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The Iron Rose posted:I mean this is a fruitless argument, but also lol considering that many many many games also have settlement systems and nobody’s saying they’re copying anyone. Just because a mod that does a similar thing doesn’t mean the mod author owns the idea in perpetuity. The thing with Autumn leaves (and again, I've played the mod for New Vegas, but haven't played Fallout 4 at all so I don't know how accurate the accusations are) is that it's stuff like plot and story which is much easier of a case to make that they're stealing from modders, versus gameplay mechanics. Hell, I think New Vegas added the custom ammo crafting based on a Fallout 3 mod?
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Jul 1, 2021 23:59
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New vegas added weapon mods themselves in a very similar fashion to a fallout 3 mod.
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Jul 2, 2021 00:13
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OwlFancier posted:New vegas added weapon mods themselves in a very similar fashion to a fallout 3 mod. Oh, that's what it was. I knew it was something, but I didn't play much 3 either.
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Jul 2, 2021 00:18
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John Murdoch posted:Those seem like much more general concepts. It would be like saying Fallout 4 ripped off any mods that expanded gun modding. As for Automatron, they actually give a tongue-in-cheek callout, calling for "RobCo Certified technicians" on one of the terminals during the main quest. I don't really consider it ripping off, really, it's more along the lines of "incorporating the features from a well-regarded mod." Another interesting example of this is the Midas Magic of Aurum mod for oblivion, which added spell types that later became standard in Skyrim (Sprays and Runes, off the top of my head), and even more amusingly, the sequel mod, Midas Spells in Skyrim, which came out before any official Skyrim DLC, contained several spells that the DLCs would later implement officially (A couple of Rune Spells, and Bound Dagger.) Now if Bethesda had only implemented some of the good ideas from New Vegas into Fallout 4. Like different ammo types, the companion wheel, and hiring good writers.
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Jul 2, 2021 00:22
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Agents are GO! posted:I don't really consider it ripping off, really, it's more along the lines of "incorporating the features from a well-regarded mod." Skwirl posted:The thing with Autumn leaves (and again, I've played the mod for New Vegas, but haven't played Fallout 4 at all so I don't know how accurate the accusations are) The dumb thing was that Peter Hines went full Baghdad Bob with his "Our DLC quest and that mods are totally different, any similarity pure coincidence." I get why he had to say that because Bethesda's lawyers freak out over everything. But if they had admitted it, I'm willing to bot the majority of the modders would have thought that was neat.
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Jul 2, 2021 01:26
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lol at defending bethesda from charges of stealing from mods when they've openly and avowedly stolen from mods for the better part of 2 decades
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Jul 2, 2021 02:07
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this thread deals with awful mods & modders so often that i think there becomes this perverse desire to side with corporations just to spite the modders
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Jul 2, 2021 16:27
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Nexus Mods is a corporation?
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Jul 2, 2021 16:28
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Raygereio posted:Yeah, it's good that devs are looking the modding community to see what sort of gameplay features and mechanics the players like. I believe the creator of Autumn Leaves flat out said he didn't mind or care about it.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:35
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Ideas aren't "stealable" Taking the concept of some cool gameplay mechanic from a mod is fine, whether you're making a game or just a different competing mod. As long as you're not taking the modders' actual work or writing.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:48
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StillFullyTerrible posted:this thread deals with awful mods & modders so often that i think there becomes this perverse desire to side with corporations just to spite the modders I'm not perverse about it.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:56
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Ideas aren't "stealable" All art/literature is informed by prior work, but the difference between acknowledging "this is a cool idea I copied from [x]" instead of claiming "original thing donut steel" is that when someone chooses the latter in a case where it is blatantly false... kinda demonstrates they have no integrity and tends to wreck their credibility? silentsnack fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 17:00
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I mean if you literally claim it''s an original idea while blatantly lying then yeah that's pretty stupid. But I don't think every doom clone in the 90s needed to have "thanks id software i stole your game idea" in the credits
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Jul 2, 2021 17:04
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This TIE Fighter Total Conversion mod for X-Wing Alliance came out today and I've been digging it a lot. It includes what is basically a straight port of the original game plus the expansion but also a re-imagined version of the base campaign that revamps the original missions with new ships and objectives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEVrdwZ9bEk Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 20:01
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StillFullyTerrible posted:this thread deals with awful mods & modders so often that i think there becomes this perverse desire to side with corporations just to spite the modders My position is that the Nexus is the reason for awful modders, their policies are directly responsible for why most modding communities are as horrible as they are. I fully desire that the Nexus eat poo poo, even if it ends up being another corporation that ends up feeding it to them. Bethesda, by contrast, is just mostly sloppy and lazy, in a corporate sense. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 2, 2021 |
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Jul 2, 2021 20:06
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Cross-Section posted:This TIE Fighter Total Conversion mod for X-Wing Alliance came out today and I've been digging it a lot. Holy poo poo
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Jul 2, 2021 20:55
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I don't have a problem with game developers taking ideas from mods of their previous games, as a mod being very popular and well loved is an obvious indication that that the thing could do well in the game (Well, maybe moreso for settlement mods than big titty rape mods). I do have a problem with the implantation in the base game by the actual devs feeling like a mod the way the FO4 settlements did. It'd also be excellent if the devs found a way to reward the modder, if not some sort of bounty reward than with at least a shoutout or acknowledgement.
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Jul 2, 2021 21:21
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If people are playing Guilty Gear Strive, two quality of life mods I've loved are this mod that fixes the quiet audio of the songs from older GG titles, and this mod that lets you have random songs every match during a player rematch instead of having to go to the lobby or main menu (as long as you set your battle theme to Smell of the Game). They're minor changes, but they go a long way in my opinion, especially if you plan to spend a fair amount of time taking the game seriously in the near future.
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Jul 3, 2021 00:32
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Wrr posted:I don't have a problem with game developers taking ideas from mods of their previous games, as a mod being very popular and well loved is an obvious indication that that the thing could do well in the game (Well, maybe moreso for settlement mods than big titty rape mods). The issue is acknowledgement can lead to lawsuits. When JK Rowling does book signings there's a person paid to be there to intercept any fan fiction someone tries to hand her so if coincidently there's a similarity between what's in there and what she writes she has people to testify that she never read it.
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Jul 3, 2021 00:39
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I played both the fallout 3 settlement mod and fallout 4 and I would actually describe fallout 4 as being a remarkably well implemented feature and something I genuinely did not expect to see in the game. There is certainly plenty of room for expansion on it but that is true of basically every element of bethesda games because they always focus on breadth rather than depth. I also don't really think there is much commonality between the mod and the fallout 4 implementation other than the general idea of "you can build stuff" which is like, a central narrative theme of the entire franchise in one way or another, but is not generally realized as gameplay.
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Jul 3, 2021 03:56
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Also you built up the settlement of Raven Rock in Bloodmoon years before either.
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Jul 3, 2021 14:33
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