Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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AnoHito: May 8, 2014

My hype is like Imperator in reverse. I was initially pretty excited for Imperator which was deflated with dev diary and piece of information released about the game.

With Vicky 3, I started kind of wary that they'd screw it up, but basically every single thing they say is good poo poo that has me rubbing my hands together with glee.

# ? Jun 28, 2021 20:26

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 17:32

ThaumPenguin: Oct 9, 2013

Oh right, everyone keep in mind that Paradox devs, like most working Swedes, will have pretty much all of July off, so we might not get much in the ways of teasers or dev diaries for a while.

# ? Jun 28, 2021 20:40

the pole or the dole: May 21, 2009

Really wanna play this game, wanna crash some economies

# ? Jun 28, 2021 22:26

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

if each nations railroad don't have different gauges with varying small stat changes requiring special tooling factories, I will lose my ability to feel human

While obviously a joke and way too in the weeds a sort of divergent tree of rail gauges could have an impact.

Like in the foreign investment front, want your troops to mobilize and move faster across friendly territory? Want to beat the huns to the front and get that first move? Well you better invest in your poor friendly buffer nation's rail infrastructure if you don't want to waste precious days changing trains at the border..

# ? Jun 29, 2021 00:54

Ghost of Mussolini: Jun 26, 2011

Arrath posted:

a sort of divergent tree of rail gauges could have an impact.

inshallah

# ? Jun 29, 2021 01:23

Cheatum the Evil Midget: Sep 11, 2000; I COULDN'T BACK UP ANY OF MY ARGUEMENTS, IGNORE ME PLEASE.

Cellulose based nautical objects

# ? Jun 29, 2021 05:18

Nosfereefer: Jun 15, 2011; IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM

Any news about Jan Mayen yet?

# ? Jun 29, 2021 13:37

e-dt: Sep 16, 2019

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1410236691575570436

# ? Jul 1, 2021 02:13

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

e-dt posted:

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1410236691575570436

Wait... the game actually breaks pops down into individuals?!?

# ? Jul 1, 2021 03:28

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

*eyes glisten*

petite-bourgeoisie

total sicko mode engaged

# ? Jul 1, 2021 03:35

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Waiting for the modern day mod to have inventions like smartphones and social media that increase the politically inactive cohort cause they're content enough with tentacle porn readily available.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 03:38

Quorum: Sep 24, 2014; REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

dead gay comedy forums posted:

*eyes glisten*

petite-bourgeoisie

total sicko mode engaged

Something Awful Games Forum Posters
Interest Group
This Pop Primary Interest Group is Sickos

# ? Jul 1, 2021 03:52

Yaoi Gagarin: Feb 20, 2014

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Wait... the game actually breaks pops down into individuals?!?

It probably just stores those numbers that you see there. The entire concept of pops is a clever trick to *avoid* ever simulating individuals.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 03:56

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

VostokProgram posted:

It probably just stores those numbers that you see there. The entire concept of pops is a clever trick to *avoid* ever simulating individuals.

They'll get there eventually, the "Real world" is just Vicky 8

# ? Jul 1, 2021 04:07

Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

Arrath posted:

Waiting for the modern day mod to have inventions like smartphones and social media that increase the politically inactive cohort cause they're content enough with tentacle porn readily available.

Yes, because when I think of the impact of Smartpones and Social Media on the political world, I definitely think of it making people less political.

...Unless that was :thejoke:

and I just missed it.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 04:16

Yaoi Gagarin: Feb 20, 2014

The internet being invented starts a timer which eventually leads to world war 3

# ? Jul 1, 2021 04:19

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; Can't post for 46 minutes!; Grimey Drawer

yeah the unashamed tentacle perverts are not politically inactive, they're the alt-right

(the ashamed tentacle perverts are Dengists)

# ? Jul 1, 2021 04:24

e-dt: Sep 16, 2019

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Wait... the game actually breaks pops down into individuals?!?

I assume it's the same as how in Vicky2 you could see little pie charts of ideology for each pop, except the percentages are rounded off into individuals for display (because it doesnt look very good to have pops with 22.5 conservatives and 11.3 liberals (or in Vic3 45.7 industrialists and 23.4 intelligentsia) , even if it is basically the same simulation-wise)

# ? Jul 1, 2021 04:35

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Hellioning posted:

Yes, because when I think of the impact of Smartpones and Social Media on the political world, I definitely think of it making people less political.

...Unless that was and I just missed it.

The pops will self identify as one random extreme ideology but won't actually do anything but generate posts.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 05:37

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

e-dt posted:

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1410236691575570436

Sniff, I'm so happy I could cry.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 10:26

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Would be nice if it gave a % breakdown after the number of individuals so you could tell at a glance how much of each pop was politically inactive, for example. Maybe there's another UI element which already does it better and they're trying to avoid clutter.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 11:25

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

e-dt posted:

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1410236691575570436

engineers part of the trade unionists group :thunk:

# ? Jul 1, 2021 12:53

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Invention discovered: Posting As Praxis

# ? Jul 1, 2021 13:14

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

hot cocoa on the couch posted:

engineers part of the trade unionists group

Currently, Swedish engineers have like a 90% unionization rate. We're not talking modern American programmers here.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 13:26

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Edit: Sorry, wrong paradox thread

# ? Jul 1, 2021 13:35

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

Mantis42 posted:

The pops will self identify as one random extreme ideology but won't actually do anything but generate posts.

Not too bad of an idea really, getting people to become politically inactive should be a strong play for monarchies in the period, removing pressure on them to reform, with the caveat that should militancy rise too high, politically inactive pops are much more willing to go straight to extreme ideologies.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 14:30

feller: Jul 5, 2006

A lot of american engineers are in unions too even, like the speea

# ? Jul 1, 2021 15:46

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

hot cocoa on the couch posted:

engineers part of the trade unionists group

all dutiful members in good standing of the brotherhood of locomotive engineers and trainmen

# ? Jul 1, 2021 16:33

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-6-interest-groups.1481423/

quote:

Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we�re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we�re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3�s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation�s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It�s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation�s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven�t instituted women�s suffrage). These Pops are �outside the system� so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won�t focus on those today.

As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group�s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country�s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are� not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it�s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Now, something that�s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that�s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don�t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That�s all for today, though we�ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we�re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we�ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:00

Takanago: Jun 2, 2007; You'll see...

Someone's gonna make a mod that adds a "Going Galt" trait to Industrialists which reduces investment pool contributions by 100% when they are unhappy

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:13

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

I'm happy to see laws on separation of church and state are in the game, religion was a tiny part of V1 and V2 but it was really important to people and politics at the time (just less so than in the previous centuries)

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:16

fuf: Sep 12, 2004; haha

hmm I know political parties would be cool but I hope they don't feel like they have to tack on an extra unplanned layer just to appease our idiotic whims

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:20

Quorum: Sep 24, 2014; REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

fuf posted:

hmm I know political parties would be cool but I hope they don't feel like they have to tack on an extra unplanned layer just to appease our idiotic whims

--George Washington, ca. 1796

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:28

Soup du Jour: Sep 8, 2011; I always knew I'd die with a headache.

fuf posted:

hmm I know political parties would be cool but I hope they don't feel like they have to tack on an extra unplanned layer just to appease our idiotic whims

I�d really rather them lay groundwork for potential expansions than put any hard effort into political parties, yeah

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:41

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

quote:

What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform

emergent political parties arising from interest groups is an absolutely amazing idea in a very correct direction while also being holy loving poo poo hard to program and probably going to cause hilarious clusterfucks both technical and in gameplay

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:48

ilitarist: Apr 26, 2016; illiterate and militarist

If they're doing political parties then interest groups have to be static. Cause parties should certainly change their policy with time. If parties bade their chamging agendas on certain interest groups and those groups themselves change thier agendas then it's inconvievable. Inconcievable, I tell you!

# ? Jul 1, 2021 17:55

Takanago: Jun 2, 2007; You'll see...

ok but imagine this:

quote:

Trade Unionists
300 individuals in this interest group support the Labour Party
150 individuals in this interest group support the Socialist Party
100 individuals in this interest group support the Communist Party
50 individuals in this interest group support the Socialist Labour Party
30 individuals in this interest group support the Non-Revisionist Democratic Socialism Party

Industrialists
500 individuals in this interest group support the Liberal Party

The ruling party is the Liberal Party

# ? Jul 1, 2021 18:03

Wiz: May 16, 2004; Nap Ghost

fuf posted:

hmm I know political parties would be cool but I hope they don't feel like they have to tack on an extra unplanned layer just to appease our idiotic whims

We're not going to add them if we don't feel they add to the game.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 18:20