Media that did not age well: Wow more like Kitty Prejudice

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christmas boots: Oct 15, 2012; To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out; Biscuit Hider

Crystal Skull > Temple of Doom

This is my truth

# ? Jul 1, 2021 21:49

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:49

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

I thought the whole nuke scene was great.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 21:52

chglcu: May 17, 2007; I'm so bored with the USA.

The jungle chase was so much worse than the fridge.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 21:52

Volcott: Mar 30, 2010; People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

I've only ever seen raiders and that, perhaps, is enough.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 21:53

chglcu: May 17, 2007; I'm so bored with the USA.

Volcott posted:

I've only ever seen raiders and that, perhaps, is enough.

Nah, Last Crusade is good.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 21:55

darkwasthenight: Jan 7, 2011; GENE TRAITOR

The fridge scene is at least suitably pulpy. Feels like the cliffhanger at the end of a strip in the newspaper funnies: "Oh no! How will our hero possibly escape?" and then some rear end in a top hat writer has to work out how he can possibly survive a nuclear bomb that doesn't involve flying away on an eagle or something because he's doing five strips a week and has written himself into a corner. Indie is basically a comics character so it's not tonally miles away even if it stands out in the movie.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:15

Volcott: Mar 30, 2010; People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

chglcu posted:

Nah, Last Crusade is good.

Wait that's the one I saw. My bit is ruined.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:18

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Raiders is the one that decided 'what if we canonize our lead as a pedophile? That's a great idea!'

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:23

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

christmas boots posted:

Crystal Skull > Temple of Doom

This is my truth

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:28

sweet geek swag: Mar 29, 2006; Adjust lasers to FUN!

Zore posted:

Raiders is the one that decided 'what if we canonize our lead as a pedophile? That's a great idea!'

Hollywood has been full of sex perverts for a long time. I'm not even gonna say George Lucas was a sex pervert for suggesting that. I'm just gonna say that he was surrounded by sex perverts for so long that he couldn't tell how bad of an idea it was. He also may have been a sex pervert.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:29

christmas boots: Oct 15, 2012; To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out; Biscuit Hider

Zore posted:

Raiders is the one that decided 'what if we canonize our lead as a pedophile? That's a great idea!'

IIRC Lucas wanted to make her even younger in the backstory and Spielberg had to pump the breaks on that so that she was only a little underage instead of, like, in grade school.

Which, y'know, still makes Indy a pedophile.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 22:52

Dirt Road Junglist: Oct 8, 2010; We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

chglcu posted:

The jungle chase was so much worse than the fridge.

This, tbh. The fridge was dumb, but comic book logic-y, and that it happened pretty early in the movie made me say, fine, whatever. But the jungle scene was an extra level of stupid, and it definitely tipped the movie over into, "Yeah, not a fan of this," for me.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 23:07

packetmantis: Feb 26, 2013

christmas boots posted:

Crystal Skull > Temple of Doom

This is my truth

Same.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 23:41

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

What gets me about the fridge is that everyone gets wound up talking about how dumb and implausible and stupid it is and not that the CGI of the fridge landing looks like rear end.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 23:46

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

christmas boots posted:

Crystal Skull > Temple of Doom

This is my truth

I'd have to watch Temple again, because I haven't seen it in so long. My opinion at the moment is that they're both ok films, but I'd rather watch Last Crusade because it's loving brilliant.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 04:42

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

The ironic thing about bringing up Red Letter Media's style of criticism and the Crystal Skull fridge scene is that RLM liked the fridge scene. Specifically because of the shot of Indy looking out at the atomic bomb explosion afterwards. They're filmmakers, so they can respect a good Cinematic Moment that Says Things, and that shot's a really strong visual that shows that this movie's taking place in a different world, both in time and concepts since Crystal Skull was explicitly leaning more into 50s sci-fi than the original trilogy's occultism. None of it's explicitly bad, even if it strains credulity a bit.

RLM's style when doing that sort of criticism is usually to weave them into a larger issue at play, which a lot of their contemporaries didn't. With the TNG movies they didn't bring up discrepancies between the show and movies because 'wrong and therefore sucks', they brought it up as examples for the greater thesis of how those movies were essentially only dressing up as TNG while having no real respect for the original show. Meanwhile the prequel reviews more pick apart larger production and directing issues, because the problem there was that George Lucas was making all these calls without having any eye or care for the end result.

But well, a lot of people just see that approach as 'wrong and therefore sucks', not thinking to look a little further to see the point behind why this thing was worth underlining.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 05:39 on Jul 2, 2021

# ? Jul 2, 2021 05:34

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

The obsession with misplaced and arbitrary 'realism' at the expense of literally everything else reminds me of some of the big problems with tabletop RPGs over the last couple decades, and a good chunk of video games; the idea that things must be Gritty And Realistic by being brown and grimdark and full of bigotry because otherwise it's kiddy and silly and can't be taken seriously.

And that's a crater both mediums are still digging themselves out of.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 06:42

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Ghost Leviathan posted:

The obsession with misplaced and arbitrary 'realism' at the expense of literally everything else reminds me of some of the big problems with tabletop RPGs over the last couple decades, and a good chunk of video games; the idea that things must be Gritty And Realistic by being brown and grimdark and full of bigotry because otherwise it's kiddy and silly and can't be taken seriously.

And that's a crater both mediums are still digging themselves out of.

What tabletop RPGs are you thinking of that have been like that since the turn of the millennium? Gygaxian bigotry fell out of style by the 2000s, and so did most of the painfully involved gritty realism (outside of like GURPS, you�re not seeing a lot of people playing The Riddle of Steel or Twilight 2000 or HERO System).

# ? Jul 2, 2021 06:52

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

christmas boots posted:

IIRC Lucas wanted to make her even younger in the backstory and Spielberg had to pump the breaks on that so that she was only a little underage instead of, like, in grade school.

Which, y'know, still makes Indy a pedophile.

You're almost right.

Honestly the less you look into 1900s social mores the better. Based on historical trends from the late 1800s women were getting married at ages 15-19 at a 10x higher rate then men of the same age and the obvious implication is that tons of men in their 20s, 30s, 40s etc were marrying teenagers. It was probably also a function of wealth/social prestige.

Found the transcript you're referring too as well
http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf

quote:

George wanted to make her ELEVEN. Anything older than fifteen was "not interesting" to George. Stephen doesn't care for that idea:

L � I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.

G � I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.

L � And he was forty-two.

G � He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.

S � She had better be older than twenty-two.

G � He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.

G � It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.

S � And promiscuous. She came onto him.

G � Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...

S � She has pictures of him.

Feel like this is something more people should be aware of.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 07:38

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

mind the walrus posted:

The devil is in the details. Y'all asked for this, btw.

CinemaSins' style of criticism builds a brand around critical analysis wherein the highest level of analysis is fealty to "realism." The more "real" you find a movie, the better it is. Problems within a movie can thus be literally quantified, and said counter is a literal metric of any film's overall quality. This is both a limited and frankly adolescent way to approach critical analysis of anything.

Now there are lots of people who will rightly point out that CinemaSins is a goofy YouTube show (it is) and not intended to be taken as legitimate criticism (despite never resisting or qualifying that label in meaningful fashion), and I'm not going to debate that. In the end CinemaSins is the natural outgrowth when generations of adolescents and adults grow up under English courses where "The curtains are blue because they symbolize depression" and fail to break through into understanding that critical analysis is not about ascertaining a binary "good or bad" even though we often refer to works as such in casual conversation. Ultimately media can be judged on a wide variety of axis, and understanding that variety is key to getting the most out of what we consume, including the bad stuff.

On the other hand, I have seen responses to any kind of flaw anyone brings up about a movie - whether in terms of acting, characterization, filming, thematic coherence, plotting, et cetera - all being dismissed as 'cinemasins nitpicking'. It's a lazy way to dismiss any problems with Thing You Think Is Good, but with a veneer of being More Sophisticated Viewer instead of a I Turn My Brain Off For Popcorn Flicks Movie Prole.

Tunicate has a new favorite as of 08:16 on Jul 2, 2021

# ? Jul 2, 2021 08:14

christmas boots: Oct 15, 2012; To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out; Biscuit Hider

pentyne posted:

You're almost right.

Honestly the less you look into 1900s social mores the better. Based on historical trends from the late 1800s women were getting married at ages 15-19 at a 10x higher rate then men of the same age and the obvious implication is that tons of men in their 20s, 30s, 40s etc were marrying teenagers. It was probably also a function of wealth/social prestige.

Found the transcript you're referring too as well
http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf

Feel like this is something more people should be aware of.

I've read it before and yet the revulsion is fresh every time

# ? Jul 2, 2021 08:19

kupachek: Aug 5, 2015; This man’s brain is trembling in the balance between reason and insanity, and as he stalks on with clenched fist and sword in hand, as though he still saw those murderous Russians gunners.

christmas boots posted:

I've read it before and yet the revulsion is fresh every time

That meeting transcript wasn't exactly an isolated incident of Lucas being skeevy.
American Graffiti has a 12 year old in the main cast too, played by the Mackenzie Phillips. If you're not familiar with her, it's a bit of a sad gross story. (and that's before you get to what Mick Jager said to her)

# ? Jul 2, 2021 08:52

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

darkwasthenight posted:

No, but if you're going to make a huge change like say, putting DC on the West Coast, you should have either an actual explanation for it in universe or be prepared for people to say you made a boo boo because you didn't give enough of a poo poo about the setting of your movie to consult a map.

Still better than Highlander, where the MacLeods not only walk from the west coast to the Great Glen in a morning but start by crossing a bridge that was built in the 1920s. People love to use landmarks in movies.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 09:32

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Jedit posted:

Still better than Highlander, where the MacLeods not only walk from the west coast to the Great Glen in a morning but start by crossing a bridge that was built in the 1920s. People love to use landmarks in movies.

The bridge is an Highlander. The 1920's version is its latest fake identify.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 09:45

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

That Italian Guy posted:

The bridge is an Highlander. The 1920's version is its latest fake identify.

Surprisingly, this is almost true about Eilean Donan itself. The castle dates back to the 13th century, but it was demolished after the Jacobite rebellion. It lay in ruins until just after the First World War, when it was rebuilt in its current form based on the one surviving drawing of the original structure. So ironically, the modern castle is less than a century old but is claiming to have been around for 900 years.

E: I guess you could say that it's mediaeval that didn't age well. :v:

# ? Jul 2, 2021 10:08

Mescal: Jul 23, 2005

pentyne posted:

Found the transcript you're referring too as well
http://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf

Feel like this is something more people should be aware of.

Wowee. For a second I thought he was going to try to talk him out of it

"She's 11."
"No."
"She's 12."
"No. A little older. ...And a slut."

# ? Jul 2, 2021 10:19

Crespolini: Mar 9, 2014

Jedit posted:

Still better than Highlander, where the MacLeods not only walk from the west coast to the Great Glen in a morning but start by crossing a bridge that was built in the 1920s. People love to use landmarks in movies.

If you can accept the idea of space alien immortals you should be able to handle a temporally displaced bridge. That you can't is a failing on your part, not the movies (and a rather odious character flaw, some would say).

# ? Jul 2, 2021 11:24

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Crespolini posted:

If you can accept the idea of space alien immortals you should be able to handle a temporally displaced bridge. That you can't is a failing on your part, not the movies (and a rather odious character flaw, some would say).

Anyone who can accept Highlander 2 is an odious character flaw.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 11:55

Andrew Verse: Mar 30, 2011

Lucas' whole "Indiana Jones as a pedophile" thing comes across as a robot's understanding of what it means to be "interesting". Beep boop, not many action heroes are pedophiles, therefore if we make our action hero a pedophile it will be interesting, beep boop.

Good thing Spielberg managed to talk him out of it because the young child wouldn't have been promiscuous enough for his liking.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 12:00

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I mean we know Lucas is a weirdo.

I know with how things have gone internet nerds have convinced themselves he�s trying to own the bad internet nerds, but I think he�s just really loving weird

# ? Jul 2, 2021 12:03

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean we know Lucas is a weirdo.

I know with how things have gone internet nerds have convinced themselves he�s trying to own the bad internet nerds, but I think he�s just really loving weird

Didn't he pull the gender-swapped version of that in the SW prequels, with Padme and Anakin? When they meet the first time, Anakin is played by a (very young) child actor and Padme is already played by Natalie Portman...and in the next movie, set a few years later (and with a teenage actor for Anakin) they fall in love?

That Italian Guy has a new favorite as of 12:27 on Jul 2, 2021

# ? Jul 2, 2021 12:25

Len: Jan 21, 2008; Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!

That Italian Guy posted:

Didn't he pull the gender-swapped version of that in the SW prequels, with Padme and Anakin? When they meet the first time, Anakin is played by a (very young) child actor and Padme is already played by Natalie Portman...and in the next movie, set a few years later (and with a teenage actor for Anakin) they fall in love?

He's 9 and she's 14 in Phantom Menace, ten years later he's 19 and she's 24.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 12:42

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Len posted:

He's 9 and she's 14 in Phantom Menace, ten years later he's 19 and she's 24.

Well I guess the problem is having the same actress play a 14 and a 24 year old without any real visual change then :v:

# ? Jul 2, 2021 12:56

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Jedit posted:

Anyone who can accept Highlander 2 is an odious character flaw.

Highlander 2 is fine, and should have been the end of the franchise. Although I am prepared to accept that the franchise should have ended with the original movie.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 13:01

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Is Highlander II canon in all other Highlander media? I know it's in the far future year of 1997 or whatever.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 13:02

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Is Highlander II canon in all other Highlander media? I know it's in the far future year of 1997 or whatever.

Continuity in this franchise is a joke. Highlander 3 ignores 2, Highlander Endgame follows the TV show and ignores 2 and possibly 3 and the less said about Highlander The Source the better.

AceOfFlames has a new favorite as of 13:11 on Jul 2, 2021

# ? Jul 2, 2021 13:06

Darkhold: Feb 19, 2011; No Heart❤️
No Soul👻
No Service🙅

There can be only ONE!

Except in 2 where the aliens can make more immortals any time they want and dead immortals can be resurrected if they're played by Sean Connery
Or in 3 where for some reason being in a cave didn't count for the gathering that took place in one
Or in 4 where really the original gathering was like a test run gathering and didn't count. Also I believe the excuse for the series I don't fully remember.
.........I haven't watched The Source.

# ? Jul 2, 2021 14:46