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KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

MachuPikacchu posted:

Okay, I need some advice: my party is Knight, Ranger, Time Mage and Dragoon. Can I kill Omega and Shinryu? If so, how?

The stated quickleak method on last page is how to kill Omega, at least - !Rapid Fire with a Ragnarok or Dragon Lance (or even the Yoichi Bow) could do the damage but you have no way to survive the murder train without the power of Za Warudo.

Killing Shin is much easier. Either get a Power Staff (Black Warlocks in meatfort drop them) or queue up Berserk on the Wonder Wand like you would for Omniscient. Berserk Shinryu. If you have your Knight keep using !Guard and your other three party members are in critical health, you've got it free. If you want even more security, equip a Dark Bow on your Ranger and keep firing it until the screen flashes; that's a sign you blinded him, too. :haw:

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Princey
Mar 22, 2013
I have almost that party but Thief instead of Dragoon, and I would be curious to hear suggestions other than quickleaking. Edit: For Omega, Shinryu's already dead.

(Quickleaking is using the Time spell Quick, breaking a poison rod to inflict sap on the enemy, and then waiting for a million years without ever taking your second Quick turn because the sap won't wear off and slowly murders them)

Princey fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 5, 2021

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Once you've got Shinryu berserked, most parties don't need further shenanigans. His physical attacks are one-hit kills, but they're all single target, so as long as his HP doesn't outlast your stack of Phoenix Downs, you'll be good to go.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

MachuPikacchu posted:

Okay, I need some advice: my party is Knight, Ranger, Time Mage and Dragoon. Can I kill Omega and Shinryu? If so, how?

You can blind Shinryu with the darkness bow after berserking it (power staff if you've got it, wonder wand otherwise). Optionally stack up as much extra insurance as you feel like: give the time mage and ranger equip shields, leave some of your sandals at home in favor of manual haste so you can equip eleven mantles instead, thief knife extra mirage vests if you're really dedicated (probably don't actually do this, it'd be overkill).

Fake edit: Beaten, plus I forgot about guard strats. Also, for some reason the thread got de-stickied? Weird.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Princey posted:

I have almost that party but Thief instead of Dragoon, and I would be curious to hear suggestions other than quickleaking

(Quickleaking is using the Time spell Quick, breaking a poison rod to inflict sap on the enemy, and then waiting for a million years without ever taking your second Quick turn because the sap won't wear off and slowly murders them)

The good news is that !Rapid Fire Chicken Knifing will cut through Omega's HP like butter.

The bad news is that each use of !Rapid Fire draws four (!) counters, two counters twice, so you'd need to be a stupidly high level (both to dodge Encircles and to have more soakin' HP) and chugging Elixirs like water to survive the constant damage output. You'd also have to deal with your party being constantly confused, but I think the Genji Helm stops that and I know that Lamia Crowns do.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 5, 2021

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Koobes posted:

:allears: I love this one in particular

Oh poo poo that must have been Mellusion! Sorry!

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011

Shoehead posted:

Oh poo poo that must have been Mellusion! Sorry!

I mean, Lenna was poisoned at the end of your Exdeath fight, so...

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Koobes posted:

:allears: I love this one in particular

If this one doesn't count I will face God and walk backwards into Hell.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Shoehead posted:

Oh poo poo that must have been Mellusion! Sorry!
Don't apologize. It's technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

Darkoni
Dec 28, 2010

You do not look terribly noble and yet I feel troubled, attracted, bewitched.

Had the best Crystals fight of my Fiesta career. I'm rocking blue mage/ranger/dragoon/samurai and i don't have white wind and i don't want to grind for zenigage. So i death claw them all dead before they have a chance to do their desperation attacks. Except the wind one. It politely casted aeroga so i could learn it before i managed to gunch him. I used more ethers than high potions!

On to Meatfort!

Koobes
Nov 6, 2012

ultrafilter posted:

If this one doesn't count I will face God and walk backwards into Hell.


girl dick energy posted:

Don't apologize. It's technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

I looked up the boss data and while she's technically immune to poison the status, in her physical weak phase poison heals her, which I feel is in the spirit of this

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009


Rosalie_A posted:

I mean, Lenna was poisoned at the end of your Exdeath fight, so...

I hate to be a party pooper but doesn't your team get a full heal as soon as W3 starts? I think there's a whopping 10 seconds of controlling unpoisoned Lenna :(

MachuPikacchu
Oct 15, 2012

Sacre vert! Maman!

doos posted:

-Have your Time Mage cast Quick
-On your first move, break a Venom Rod (if you're fighting Omega, reflect it off a teammate)
-Wait a few hours

This is a galaxy brain solution and I can't believe it actually worked. Fortunately my emulator has a Fast Forward button.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



MachuPikacchu posted:

This is a galaxy brain solution and I can't believe it actually worked. Fortunately my emulator has a Fast Forward button.

My emulator froze when I turned on 10x speed for too long, so I was denied an Omega win.

I just. Really did not want to sit there for hours.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

I hate to be a party pooper but doesn't your team get a full heal as soon as W3 starts? I think there's a whopping 10 seconds of controlling unpoisoned Lenna :(

They served shellfish at dinner that night and Lenna had a mild allergic reaction it's fine.

Tyty
Feb 20, 2012

Night-vision Goggles Equipped!


ultrafilter posted:

Just a quick reminder that this is still mostly open. Berserker, Freelancer and Necromancer have all been done, but everything else is still up for grabs.

I'll mention this once more in a month or so if anyone's looking for a last minute challenge.
I might do Cannoneer or Gladiator after I finish my first run. It'll have to be unofficial though because apparently you can only job fair Advance jobs to the Earth slot, and nowhere else.

Kinda wish Advance could be a modifier on Pure Chaos. Oracle/Gladiator/Cannoneer/Free would end up pretty fun.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


almagest hurts a lot

e: Is that spell just a level check? I keep getting hit with NED casting almagest twice when I have him down to his last part.

Beamed fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 6, 2021

Galick
Nov 26, 2011

Why does Khajiit have to go to prison this time?
That's your problem, don't let NED get to one part. The last piece gets super pissy and you need to kill the last two at the same time to avoid that.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Galick posted:

That's your problem, don't let NED get to one part. The last piece gets super pissy and you need to kill the last two at the same time to avoid that.

Or...maybe save the last part for Magic Lamp Odin? Giving that one a shot now.

e: WOO!

Beamed fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jul 6, 2021

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Arrrthritis posted:

Got a couple of Toxxes this year for the people who are interested!
:toxx:
For NED, I'll be donating $2 for every downed party member when Neo Ex-Death is defeated. (i.e. if Butz is the only party member standing when NED is defeated, I'll donate $6. Or if you have two members standing I'll donate $4, or $2 if you have three party members standing).
Toxx cap: $100



Not too many I completed this time, beyond CHAOS and the above, but glad to have my first Fiesta win on the belt!!

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Beamed posted:

almagest hurts a lot

e: Is that spell just a level check? I keep getting hit with NED casting almagest twice when I have him down to his last part.

I know you already figured out how to get past Pissy Last Part NED, but yeah, Almagest is a raw HP check. The only thing that can reduce the damage you take from it are reducing the enemy's M (read: that part of NED can be inflicted by Old if you have Cannoneer or a lot of Ancient Sword luck) or Shell. And since the only ways of boosting HP are level or kind of crappy passives, well. It basically becomes a check for if you have a way of nullifying it (Break Blade, severe RNG luck with Ancient Sword/Break/Catobleep, ludicrous damage output) or a way of soaking the hit.

Red Metal
Oct 23, 2012

Let me tell you about Homestuck

Fun Shoe

KataraniSword posted:

And since the only ways of boosting HP are level or kind of crappy passives

and chemist! :science:

Odysseus S. Grant
Oct 12, 2011

Cats is the oldest and strongest emotion
of mankind
Shell will also halve the amount of damage Algamest does, and the Aegis shield gives the character holding it a chance to just ignore it outright.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
There's also !Jump if you get the timing down (and !Hide but then you have Bard and thus should just buff up on Treedeath to run circles around NED).

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Shoehead posted:

I was fighting NED today and took a break to eat luncha nd opened my jaw too wide while abotu to bite into a sandwich and my jaw popped out of place and it put me into shock and I nearly passed out/threw up and my wife had to help me up off the floor but you know what? I KILLED THAT loving TREE WHEN I GOT BETTER


I have to go to the doctor for this in about a half hour :ohdear:

Hackan Slash
May 31, 2007
Hit it until it's not a problem anymore
Okay theorycrafters, I need some help. Running a team of Berserk/Mime/Samurai/Freelancer is there any feasible way to beat Omega(gba), or should I just resign myself to the fact that this will be a double crown run.

All I can think of is the standard reflect search approach, but I have no good way to get past evasion/defense. I was hoping to break thunder rods, but those can't self target for a bounce and no counter and trying coral swords seems like madness. I wasn't sure if there was a random piece of equipment I was missing or some other strategy.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Hackan Slash posted:

Okay theorycrafters, I need some help. Running a team of Berserk/Mime/Samurai/Freelancer is there any feasible way to beat Omega(gba), or should I just resign myself to the fact that this will be a double crown run.

All I can think of is the standard reflect search approach, but I have no good way to get past evasion/defense. I was hoping to break thunder rods, but those can't self target for a bounce and no counter and trying coral swords seems like madness. I wasn't sure if there was a random piece of equipment I was missing or some other strategy.
i think its theoretically possible because axes ignore 3/4ths defense, but you also have to get through 90% evade with 80% accuracy and its really not gonna happen

Maybe you can buy 99 poison rods and try to leak it to death without quick?

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Hackan Slash posted:

Okay theorycrafters, I need some help. Running a team of Berserk/Mime/Samurai/Freelancer is there any feasible way to beat Omega(gba), or should I just resign myself to the fact that this will be a double crown run.

All I can think of is the standard reflect search approach, but I have no good way to get past evasion/defense. I was hoping to break thunder rods, but those can't self target for a bounce and no counter and trying coral swords seems like madness. I wasn't sure if there was a random piece of equipment I was missing or some other strategy.

Does Samurai's !slap work to softlock Omega? I remember there was some bug with it but I am not as familiar with GBA. If so you could just have three slappers and let the berserker chip away in the meantime.

Kyrosiris
May 24, 2006

You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".



Poque posted:

Does Samurai's !slap work to softlock Omega? I remember there was some bug with it but I am not as familiar with GBA. If so you could just have three slappers and let the berserker chip away in the meantime.

Nah, Omega isn't susceptible to Paralyze (which is what it inflicts).

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Kyrosiris posted:

Nah, Omega isn't susceptible to Paralyze (which is what it inflicts).

Ah dang. I thought there was some big boss strat that abused the glitch.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


Poque posted:

Ah dang. I thought there was some big boss strat that abused the glitch.

The bug with !slap is that it doesn't actually do anything (the Matrix version makes it actually work). You might be thinking of Beastmaster's !Calm, which is supposed to inflict stop on beast-type enemies (and this is how it works on SNES and Matrix), but in the GBA version instead inflicts stop on non-beast-type enemies. Omega is vulnerable to stop and isn't a beast, so on GBA you can stunlock it.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=

Procrastine posted:

The bug with !slap is that it doesn't actually do anything (the Matrix version makes it actually work). You might be thinking of Beastmaster's !Calm, which is supposed to inflict stop on beast-type enemies (and this is how it works on SNES and Matrix), but in the GBA version instead inflicts stop on non-beast-type enemies. Omega is vulnerable to stop and isn't a beast, so on GBA you can stunlock it.

Yep, that was exactly what I was thinking of, thank you!

Rosalie_A
Oct 30, 2011

Hackan Slash posted:

Okay theorycrafters, I need some help. Running a team of Berserk/Mime/Samurai/Freelancer is there any feasible way to beat Omega(gba), or should I just resign myself to the fact that this will be a double crown run.

All I can think of is the standard reflect search approach, but I have no good way to get past evasion/defense. I was hoping to break thunder rods, but those can't self target for a bounce and no counter and trying coral swords seems like madness. I wasn't sure if there was a random piece of equipment I was missing or some other strategy.

High levels and katanas. Katanas have a crit chance, which ignores defense. Let's say you're using the Murakumo (stealable from Yojimbo), with 117 Attack and 20% crit. Omega has 95% Evade, so 5% of the time you'll hit and 1% of the time you'll crit. That 1% of the time, you'll negate Omega's Defense and double your Attack, so you'll be doing 234 * (Strength * Level/128 + 2) damage (plus some random variance). At reasonable levels this is only a few thousand or so, but we can do better.

First of all, we give our Berserker Bartz Equip Katanas and the Murakumo, and then we bring them to level 71; at level 71 we're assured to pull straight nines from a crit. Then, we buff up: assuming we're using a Reflect Ring, we use the Masamune to bounce Haste off of Omega onto Bartz (you are using Reflect Rings, right?). If we want to get fancy, we can also bounce Shell from the Wonder Rod onto Bartz to increase his chances of survival. Alternatively, you can prime the Rod for Thundaga, and use that and the successive Flare for the finishing blow.

All that being said, this is a pretty painful way to do things. At level 71 you're still basically assured to be eliminated by Encircle: you need to 95 just to have a 10% shot at dodging it.

The real equalizer is levels: without Shell, there's no other way to have a chance of dodging Omega's counters. Once you've got the levels to have a shot at surviving making a few attacks, the rest is academic. Berserk katana crits are just one way to go about things, and probably one of the better ones. The above strategy could probably be improved, too. A level 99 Freelancer with a Ribbon, Aegis Shield, Flame Ring, and Murakumo would actually have solid odds of living for a while, and you could throw in Shell from the Wonder Rod and suddenly you've got a pretty drat good chance. Getting to that point, however, involves getting a level 99 Freelancer, so...have fun with that!

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

Freelancer can also use the rune chime if you want to try to make that work (most likely in combination with reflected searches because there's no way you're gonna win that many dice rolls on all the counters you're going to take).

TheWonderTrickster
Aug 16, 2013

Hackan Slash posted:

Okay theorycrafters, I need some help. Running a team of Berserk/Mime/Samurai/Freelancer is there any feasible way to beat Omega(gba), or should I just resign myself to the fact that this will be a double crown run.

All I can think of is the standard reflect search approach, but I have no good way to get past evasion/defense. I was hoping to break thunder rods, but those can't self target for a bounce and no counter and trying coral swords seems like madness. I wasn't sure if there was a random piece of equipment I was missing or some other strategy.

Well here's something I can provide as someone who did Omega with 4 base Freelancers over a weekend:

I'm typing this under the assumption you'd be willing to do a lot of things short up just cheating in omega to be killed in one blow to make all the possible variable rolls to swing somewhat closer into your favor. Of course go and get your floats from birds in Northern Mountains/ Drakenvale and just heal up with items while gathering everything to fight Omega.

So your Freelancer with their nice mastered Samurai and Berserker stats at level 99 and the endless equipment possibilities (and 99 Elixirs because FF5 is a game that let's you do that) will be your champion:

For damage specifically you have:
- Coral Swords no, you'll have access to Tridents having 1 more attack power and no accuracy loss, still using a 37/38 attack powered weapon.

-Crits with Katanas, will be you best damage per hit, but you're gonna be dealing with rolling for a 20% critical with a Murakumo/Tempest Sword (Thief Knife on Yojimbos in the Void Castle section) after rolling against the 90% evasion. Honestly I should say it's objectively the best option of them all since you're dealing with less counters but my mind might still be broken over a certain bell :shepface:

-Rune axe. Defense Piercing, using the Rune Modifier, it feels good normally. But you'd have to deal with a 90% accuracy check on top of Omega's 90% evasion as well for less damage than Katana Crits per hit due to Axe's formula (Omega's 190 Defense being quartered is still high enough to minimize low attack axes can roll. Also Sidenote: Titan's Axe will also be able to damage Omega in the same way, just with a lower M).

-Hayate Bow. 25% chance to proc !Rapid Fire with 69 attack with a knife M of 18+ and eating multiple counters? Very risky but I might as well include every option.

-Rune Chime. Why would you want to deal with a 35% chance to hit 0 and the remaining percent will be dealing up to around less than 2000 damage and eating counters? Who would be crazy to do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jckk-Pr1mLM

Now let's get into your Defenses and I'm writing a lot of this up with Magic Evasion in mind due to the rolls you really "love" to see with Maelstrom and Encircle. Thank goodness you have level 99 and Shell (via Wonder Rod) on your Freelancer to somewhat mitigate the rolls before then, right? :negative:

https://pastebin.com/F1pNMJjZ

Your Freelancer champion's defense (and we'll assume you're willing to use equipment glitches to retain status immunities while pumping up your chances to survive, and if not, then whenever I mention X -> Y, just ignore anything involving Y):
Shields: Flame Shield vs Aegis Shield:
Flame Shield's absorbing fire and adding 5 to your Magic Evasion% or Aegis Shield.

Well Aegis Shield wins out here. We're still assuming you have actual stats on your level 99 Freelancer so you will have 9999 HP and therefore will be able to tank a Surge Beam-> Mustard Bomb -> Atomic Ray/Flamethrower to the face after Shell and disregarding Aegis Shield's check. Having another roll to dodge Omega's game enders is good. Because you don't need to worry about absorbing Atomic Rays/Flamethrowers for HP, you can assume I won't bother writing anything for a Flame Ring and their 5 Magic Evasion.

Hats/Helms: Ribbons -> Lamia's Tiara
Ribbons gives stats and several immunities! Why would anyone want to switch it out for equipment glitching? I personally wouldn't because I may or may not be using any non katana crit options to damage Omega and would like the extra stats. Or like having more Agility in general to deal with the sorta odd quirks of the ATB that non Matrix versions of the game has for the execution hell dealing with Omega for longer than 15 minutes... but hey you'd add 10 to your Magic Evasion % over Ribbon's 5 :shobon:

Chest: Genji Armor/Rainbow Dress-> Angel Robe (side option Black Robe for Bell Users)
Genji Armor/Rainbow Dress nulls confuse. I personally really hate the 2/3 chance of a rocket counter and the chances of it hitting anyone you deem important while having a starting 99% chance to inflict confuse before dealing with every other calculation... so let's uh just not deal with that in the first place. I give two options but you should equip the Rainbow Dress since that is Freelancer/Dancer only and you have multiple armor users. Angel Robes have 25 Magic Evasion% and are Chemist/Freelancer/Mime only so that's great! The Black Robe option exists because it's 20 Magic Evasion for 5 extra magic (Please don't use the Rune Chime).
Genji Armor: Have fun Thief Knifing off of Greg during the Necrophobe Fight
Rainbow Dress: one of the chests in the Rift Castle Portion
Angel Robe: Found in Bal Castle or Buyable in Mirage Village
Black Robe: Found in the Pyramid or Buyable in Mirage Village

Accessories:
Hermes Sandals -> Protect Ring
Hermes Sandals has innate Haste, why glitch to pass over the status immunities? You have Masamune- First Strike and casting Haste is good. So Protect Ring's 10 Magic Evasion over Hermes' 5 helps.

So you with this set up you can potentially have a 33% chance to Aegis Shield block and another 45% (10% without glitches) chance to evade Omega's evadable bullshit and ignoring the ones you can't evade? Good enough odds for me I suppose.


For the rest of these goobers: I suppose you can try to get them to do something with their limited options wrt Freelancers since you always have access to Axes and Katanas with your team comp. But you could also just have them be zombies to use as meatshields from the RNG. Zombies only care about Omega's Encircle so that's why I am setting that strategy on the table! Just take off their weapons (or keep Mime with a healing staff). Be sure to set them up properly before making them zombies since you can't change a zombie's equipment!

Shields: Aegis Shields
You can farm them from Thief Knifing Gorgimeras in the Void, either the Second Room or Necrophobe's Room. The Second Room has more formations that include Gorgimeras and one of those formations also has Necromancers if you want to use Zombies so that's helpful.

Helms:
One of the other three can equip a Genji Helm for confusion protection and Plumed Hats/Hypno Crowns for 5 Magic Evasion. Also the Thornlet for 10 Magic Evasion on your zombie!
You can steal multiple Thornlets from Thief Knifing Lamia Queens in the Pyramid

Chest:
You have Genji Armor for Confusion immunity. Bone mail with their 10 Magic Evade on your zombied armored users can be Thief Knifed from Necromancers. Your mime can also equip an Angel Robe (and really any magic evasion giving option).

Accessories:
Hermes Sandals are really hard to ignore, especially on zombies. However since your non freelancers cannot avoid Blaster's death proc without being a zombie, Reflect Rings are a viable choice.

At that point it's down to execution keeping Omega's A.I in mind on another screen to look at- making you're at full health before each Surge Beam (mainly assuming you'll roll your attacks afterwards) and hopefully be ready to stop a Maelstrom killing everyone off because even if Omega doesn't do a Surge Beam -> Maelstrom on their two turns in a row, you're still suffering from Sap if Maelstrom occurs!

Happy throwing elixirs on your team!

TheWonderTrickster fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 6, 2021

MisterZimbu
Mar 13, 2006
- Any dirty tricks for surviving Almagest with Dragoon / Time Mage / Beastmaster / Cannoneer? Besides grinding out more levels.

- Where do I get the mats to use for !Combine? The merchant says he hangs out in equipment shops but I've been to every town I can think of and haven't seen him. Google tells me nothing, either.

Tyty
Feb 20, 2012

Night-vision Goggles Equipped!


Cannoneer can Old the almagest part really easily with !combine, and it should about half the almagest damage by the time it gets down to level 1. He -should- just be hanging out at shops, but I remember finding him in the phantom village.

StupidSexyMothman
Aug 9, 2010


:toxx: $15 each for the first ten people to show me Level 15/20 wipes in the Library of the Ancients.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

MisterZimbu posted:

- Where do I get the mats to use for !Combine? The merchant says he hangs out in equipment shops but I've been to every town I can think of and haven't seen him. Google tells me nothing, either.

He only hangs out in a small number of locations. Karnak is usually where I go to buy from him, but you can also find him in Crescent and Bal Castle.

Edit: Also, make sure you're in the right building. He stays at the Inn, not the equipment store.

Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jul 7, 2021

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Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Arrrthritis posted:

:toxx:
For NED, I'll be donating $2 for every downed party member when Neo Ex-Death is defeated. (i.e. if Butz is the only party member standing when NED is defeated, I'll donate $6. Or if you have two members standing I'll donate $4, or $2 if you have three party members standing).
Toxx cap: $100

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