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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Is there a good overview of how people swore (as in expletives, not oaths) in ancient and classical civilizations? I'm aware of Catullus 16 but what would a centurion blurt out if he stubbed his toe? Probably “mehercule” by Hercules or “edepol” by Pollux, or some other mild invocation of a god like that. Or “merda” poo poo. Or “eheu!” or “vaha!” which are more like “ow!” Where Latin cussing really gets vicious is if someone else stubs your toe for you, then you can call him “mentula” dick or “verpa” dickhead, or maybe “cinaedus” fuckboy or “fellator” cocksucker if you want to start a fight.
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Jul 10, 2021 16:48
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skasion posted:"cinaedus” fuckboy I love it
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Jul 10, 2021 17:05
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lol just lol if you don't speak a language where you still go MERDA when you stub your toe.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:14
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skasion posted:Probably “mehercule” by Hercules or “edepol” by Pollux, or some other mild invocation of a god like that. Or “merda” poo poo. Or “eheu!” or “vaha!” which are more like “ow!” Where Latin cussing really gets vicious is if someone else stubs your toe for you, then you can call him “mentula” dick or “verpa” dickhead, or maybe “cinaedus” fuckboy or “fellator” cocksucker if you want to start a fight. Was there ever invocation of various gods' body parts like there is in some modern languages? Like "God's wounds!", a Middle Ages expression which IIRC was truncated in "Zounds!", which is now a staple of bad fantasy writers everywhere. I ask because I've seen things like "by Zeus's balls" pop up in overwritten modern historical fiction and it made me curious.
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Jul 10, 2021 17:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:lol just lol if you don't speak a language where you still go MERDA when you stub your toe. Merde is my favorite french curse word as it just has a wonderful sound to it. it is so satisfying to say
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Jul 10, 2021 19:05
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There must have been some great swearing in the Middle Ages. My favorite fictional one is from Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall, who has the Duke of Norfolk say " by the thrice beshitten shroud of Lazarus".
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Jul 10, 2021 20:06
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My aunt used to say 'great farting Hades' when very excited.
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Jul 10, 2021 20:37
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Merde is my favorite french curse word as it just has a wonderful sound to it. it is so satisfying to say O très Sainte Marie mèr' de Dieu, dites à ces putains De moines qu'ils nous emmerdent Sans le latin
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Jul 10, 2021 21:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KabAJhlB8wWoodrowSkillson posted:Merde is my favorite french curse word as it just has a wonderful sound to it. it is so satisfying to say MARDE de tabarnak de calisse baptême de viarge Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 21:34
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The Pompeii book I talk about iirc says they thing people said the gods names kind of like how we do now.
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Jul 10, 2021 22:13
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“gently caress” is such an amazing work I hope other cultures had words as good as it
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Jul 10, 2021 22:13
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euphronius posted:“gently caress” is such an amazing work I hope other cultures had words as good as it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZkb4TPI-Lo
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Jul 10, 2021 23:01
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cheetah7071 posted:I ended up getting this and it seems to be aimed at people who are not yet knee deep in demographic tables, but who want to be. It's a good but heavy read so far. I finished this book. The thesis ended up being twofold. First, that in this era, there were broadly two ways of exploiting conquered territory: conscription and taxation. Conscription was wildly the more successful of the two as it meant that conquest increased your military resources rather than stretching them thinner and thinner. Rome famously went almost entirely in on conscription suring its conquest of Italy, to the point where the socii didn't owe any direct taxes or tribute at all, unlike citizens, who were taxed. (Though the obligation to outfit soldiers was an indirect tax). Ptolemaic Egypt went with almost the exact opposite approach, where a thin layer of Macedonian/Greek colonists formed the core army and extracted wealth (used to pay mercenaries) from the 3-4 million ethnic Egyptians who were almost entirely disarmed and demilitarized. A proper Egyptian army probably would have been truly monstrous for the era but the Ptolemies weren't interested in that approach. Carthage, the Antigonids, and the Seleucids all took in between positions on the sliding scale. The second approach is that the political pressures of a hellenistic king meant that losses which were demographically sustainable weren't political sustainable, whereas the two republics were able to truck on through truly catastrophic losses. If there's a crisis of confidence in a leader in a monarchy, the whole state and dynasty is in danger, so the king is incentivized to cut his losses before things get too bad. Whereas a disgraced consul (or carrhaginian equivalent) can just be replaced and the whole apparatus keeps trucking along, with rival aristocrats able to say with a straight face "I know we just lost an entire generation of young men under the current consul, but vote for me and I'll make sure their lives weren't lost in vain". This is a well-known story for the Romans, but I hadn't appreciated how true it also was for the Carthaginians, who suffered similar losses while raising army after army in the final years of the war, and only ended up surrendering with the Romans at the gates of Carthage itself. Overall a bit of a dry read but I enjoyed the book well enough and I always like when history takes a more numeric approach and makes an effort to quantify when possible
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Jul 11, 2021 01:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:lol just lol if you don't speak a language where you still go MERDA when you stub your toe. Is there anything that doesn't make goons poo poo themselves?
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Jul 11, 2021 12:01
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euphronius posted:“gently caress” is such an amazing work I hope other cultures had words as good as it Not gonna lie, it's pretty good, simple, strong, multi-purpose. "Merda" is however superior to "poo poo". "Perkele" is also pretty good, though it does not refer to any bodily functions or excretions as far as I'm aware. "Filho da puta" is about on par with "son of a whore" in terms of vernacular satisfaction, both much better than the mediocre "son of a bitch" Antifa Poltergeist fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 13:02
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Perkele is a heathen thing. It’s “the devil!” in Christian interpretation, probably derived from a god’s name originally. The best bodily Finnish swear has to be vittu & derivatives. Means oval office but is as versatile, literally, as gently caress. Vittuntua “to get mad” literally “to get cunted”. Vittun idiootti “cunting idiot”. Hevonvittun “bullshit, loving, gently caress all,” literally “horse oval office”. Can also be used as aspecific location like hell: painu vittuun “go to oval office” or even better suksi vittuun “ski to oval office”.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:29
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After living in a barrack with guest workers from Lahti, I'm convinced that the Finnish language is just thousands of different declinations of the word vittu.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:34
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I'm pretty sure there's a Finn Simulator video game where you just try to fix up a lovely old car and have a key to just yell random finnish swears.
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Jul 11, 2021 13:54
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You can also say voi vitun vittu and repeat the middle part as many times as necessary for added effect. Combines with other curses as well on the same principle so for instance "voi saatanan helvetin vitun vitun vittu" is a phrase you can use in major vitutus. Vittujen kevät or spring of cunts is also a classic.
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Jul 11, 2021 15:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I'm pretty sure there's a Finn Simulator video game where you just try to fix up a lovely old car and have a key to just yell random finnish swears. My Summer Car?
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Jul 11, 2021 16:17
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I'm partial to "haista kukkanen (jonka lehmä eilen söi)". In English: Smell the flower that the cow ate yesterday!
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Jul 11, 2021 16:57
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skasion posted:Perkele is a heathen thing. It’s “the devil!” in Christian interpretation, probably derived from a god’s name originally. It's actually "vittuuntua", with two "u"s' and "vitun", with just one "t". Yes, Finnish is complicated as gently caress, or as we say, "vitun monimutkainen", when it comes declensions. Being Finnish, I'd translate "vitun idiootti" as "loving idiot" and "painu vittuun" as "gently caress off". You can also say something, usually a project, is "viturallaan", which means it's been hosed up by some moron. If you yourself gently caress up something, you can say "vituiksi meni", which is tricky to translate, since the literal translation would be "it turned into cunts", but "it went pear-shaped" or "it turned to poo poo" would be close. "Millä vitulla tämä pitää tehdä?!" would literally be "with which oval office do you have to do this?!" but the actual meaning would be "How in the gently caress is somebody supposed to do this!?". You could also say "Miten vitussa tämä pitää tehdä!?", which would have the same meaning. Warden fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jul 11, 2021 |
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Jul 11, 2021 17:53
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cheetah7071 posted:I finished this book. . Very cool, thank you for the review. I'll likely read it at your suggestion.
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Jul 11, 2021 18:29
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Groda posted:After living in a barrack with guest workers from Lahti, I'm convinced that the Finnish language is just thousands of different declinations of the word vittu.
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Jul 11, 2021 20:19
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Warden posted:It's actually "vittuuntua", with two "u"s' and "vitun", with just one "t". The beauty of Finnish swearing is the ways you can bend relatively few and simple curse words. It's economical yet forceful!
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Jul 12, 2021 05:33
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Posted in wrong thread, sorry!
WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 18:26
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I'm working on a time travel story set in England in the time of Edward III. How would people of the time react to Protestantism/Anglicanism?
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Jul 12, 2021 21:21
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They would be very confused as to why the King was suddenly the Pope instead of the Pope that's like 33% a joke answer, I really don't know
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Jul 12, 2021 21:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Mycroft Holmes posted:I'm working on a time travel story set in England in the time of Edward III. How would people of the time react to Protestantism/Anglicanism? Depends on how it was pitched. "Stop with the gaudy decorations" would be met with confusion. "The church is corrupt as gently caress" would be met with "oh poo poo he's on to us" and hostility. And perhaps some form of "aaa I'm dying of the plauge".
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Jul 12, 2021 21:30
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Ola posted:Depends on how it was pitched. "Stop with the gaudy decorations" would be met with confusion. "The church is corrupt as gently caress" would be met with "oh poo poo he's on to us" and hostility. And perhaps some form of "aaa I'm dying of the plauge". What about "sola scriptura"? The concept of "The Pope has no authority" might have attraction to some leaders...
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Jul 12, 2021 21:33
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Mycroft Holmes posted:I'm working on a time travel story set in England in the time of Edward III. How would people of the time react to Protestantism/Anglicanism? You might want to research the Lollards, who showed up in the time of Edward III's successor, Richard II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lollardy#History
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Jul 12, 2021 21:41
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skasion posted:Perkele is a heathen thing. It’s “the devil!” in Christian interpretation, probably derived from a god’s name originally. Wait - is this the origin of Swedish "fitta"? A loan word from Finnish?
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Jul 12, 2021 21:53
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Wait - is this the origin of Swedish "fitta"? A loan word from Finnish? They definitely sound similar. I think the origin has something to do with soft animal hides?
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Jul 12, 2021 22:01
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Mycroft Holmes posted:What about "sola scriptura"? The concept of "The Pope has no authority" might have attraction to some leaders... I'm pretty sure there was an actual anti-pope in Edward III's time so the idea of a strong state telling the Pope to go stuff it isn't exactly a new idea.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:15
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And a whole lot of ecclesiastical energy going into trying to solve the crisis of legitimacy
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Jul 12, 2021 22:18
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Wait - is this the origin of Swedish "fitta"? A loan word from Finnish? While I have no real knowledge about which language that imported it from the other, fitta meant swamp or swampy grounds as far as I know. Thereby multiple swedish placenames, such as the Stockholm suburb Fittja. There also exist several other placenames in Sweden derived from the Finnish vittu, these are often places where Finnish speaking people settled underutilized wilderness, often at the urging of the swedish state. In these cases the meaning can, if I recall correctly, often be linked to it being lovely lands/geographical features. So like, that oval office lake without good fishing or the steep oval office of hill that you have to pass before you get to the next village etc.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:23
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I'm going off wikipedia and memories of podcasts here, so someone who actually knows something feel free to correct me, but: Edward III was a contemporary of John Wycliffe, who ended up being a forerunner of the reformation. After Edward died he translated the bible into Middle English and wrote attacks on the papacy that got him in trouble, and eventually posthumously declared a heretic. The strains of thought that would result in Protestantism had a long pedigree. e: I read right past his post, but Silver2195 is correct (Wycliffe lead the Lollards) vvvv Omnomnomnivore fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 22:29
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I'm going off wikipedia and memories of podcasts here, so someone who actually knows something feel free to correct me, but: Edward III was a contemporary of John Wycliffe, who ended up being a forerunner of the reformation. After Edward died he translated the bible into Middle English and wrote attacks on the papacy that got him in trouble, and eventually posthumously declared a heretic. The strains of thought that would result in Protestantism had a long pedigree. That's basically what I was getting at when I linked to the Lollards.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:32
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Ithle01 posted:I'm pretty sure there was an actual anti-pope in Edward III's time so the idea of a strong state telling the Pope to go stuff it isn't exactly a new idea. Never has been, check out the Investiture Controversy. Before that the Pope doesn't have much influence. In particular when the Western Roman Empire was still around you had better believe they did what they were told just like their Byzantine equivalent did. Edit: as for Anglicanism - which one? Its a (very) broad church.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:12
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feedmegin posted:Never has been, check out the Investiture Controversy. Before that the Pope doesn't have much influence. In particular when the Western Roman Empire was still around you had better believe they did what they were told just like their Byzantine equivalent did. I'm enjoying a glass of Chateauneuf du Pape to this post.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:24
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