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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I still think the funniest possibility is that it finally does come out but it’s just full of more long meandering POV chapters of characters who were introduced in one of the last two books just traveling places and that the main character plotlines get only as far as Jon being resurrected and Tyrion meeting Dany. And that’s the end. Please let it be that. I want a chapter in freaking Asshai and it's just another boring place where Tyrion is getting drunk with a local vizier or whatever who tells him "Dire portents are all around us. The blue goats no longer bleat. Purple haze is in my brain. The crownless slug veers north!"
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Jul 12, 2021 16:12
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Wasn't GRRM originally a TV writer? Maybe that's just what he likes, endlessly piling on subplots and characters and variations on a theme, until eventually the show gets cancelled. So in the next book we'll find out that the Dorne faction also has some grand wizard who promises to wake sand worms from the earth, learn more about Barristan Selmy's traumatic childhood, and introduce the possibility of the white mare plague sweeping Westeros. That is, if the book ever comes out, which it won't.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:30
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kaworu posted:I don't really have much issue with the casting, to be honest? I honestly think that they did a superb job at casting the show, most especially in those first few seasons. You have to walk a pretty thin line on a show like this, especially when so many important leads are also fairly young children. The 2 Dudes just relied on their well known casting director Nina Gold, and like all amateurs they're art suffered when they stopped relying on experts and decided they should have more control/say Anyway heres an interesting article about Gold and GOT https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-audition-history-nina-gold-kit-harington-emilia-clarke/amp
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Jul 12, 2021 16:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I still think the funniest possibility is that it finally does come out but it’s just full of more long meandering POV chapters of characters who were introduced in one of the last two books just traveling places and that the main character plotlines get only as far as Jon being resurrected and Tyrion meeting Dany. And that’s the end. I think that's exactly what it was going to be and GRRM realized years ago that sucks and would be disappointing for everyone and doesn't know how to fix it.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:03
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pidan posted:Wasn't GRRM originally a TV writer? Yep. Read any given chapter of ASOIAF and it's abundantly clear he's a tv writer and every chapter is an episode with a 2 or 3 act structure with a cliffhanger to have you tune in next week.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:31
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:Yep. Read any given chapter of ASOIAF and it's abundantly clear he's a tv writer and every chapter is an episode with a 2 or 3 act structure with a cliffhanger to have you tune in next week. Never really thought of it that way but this is loving spot on.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:40
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A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:Yep. Read any given chapter of ASOIAF and it's abundantly clear he's a tv writer and every chapter is an episode with a 2 or 3 act structure with a cliffhanger to have you tune in next week. For me it was really noticeable in some chapter transitions: The "something happens - smash cut - something similar happens in another part of the story" transition is really common in TV and film, and also in ASoIaF.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:32
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some bust on that guy posted:I think that's exactly what it was going to be and GRRM realized years ago that sucks and would be disappointing for everyone and doesn't know how to fix it. I believe every TWoW preview chapter released fits that description but they were all written prior to the last book coming out so there’s a chance they’re all scrapped. He won’t be able to resist introducing new PoV characters who just create new plotlines though.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:37
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Sephyr posted:Yes. For all of his flaws, GRRM has strengths as well. Setting story seeds naturally both in the past lore and at the periphery of the POV characters. Creating interesting factions with organic motivations. Managing the multiple characters while moving the narrative (if not necessarily the greater storyline) along. I find it funny that Wildlings who make it past the wall don't just... stay. Isn't there a massive forest covering part of the north? It's not like the local lords could effectively hunt them even if they wanted to and why would the Wildlings care about taking back a few things when they could just stay in a land with a lot more game, soft targets to raid, and a climate that isn't as awful?
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Jul 12, 2021 19:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:I find it funny that Wildlings who make it past the wall don't just... stay. Isn't there a massive forest covering part of the north? It's not like the local lords could effectively hunt them even if they wanted to and why would the Wildlings care about taking back a few things when they could just stay in a land with a lot more game, soft targets to raid, and a climate that isn't as awful? Very little about the wildlings make any sense if you start thinking about it. This is true of ASoIaF in general though. The Iron Islands, Dorne, endless winters, the Eyerie, the Watch (why do they stay), the not-mongols, nobody noticed that all of cersies kids had blonde hair?, the list of things that don't make sense goes on and on.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:20
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pseudanonymous posted:the Watch (why do they stay) Because Ned Stark will hunt you down and chop off your head if you desert.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:44
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Klungar posted:Because Ned Stark will hunt you down and chop off your head if you desert. Also, the ones who isn't criminals is so obsessed with honor and duty that it wouldn't cross their minds to leave.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:54
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Jul 12, 2021 20:31
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I still think the funniest possibility is that it finally does come out but it’s just full of more long meandering POV chapters of characters who were introduced in one of the last two books just traveling places and that the main character plotlines get only as far as Jon being resurrected and Tyrion meeting Dany. And that’s the end. This but he announces it will now take 8 books to finish the story
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Jul 12, 2021 20:49
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pseudanonymous posted:Very little about the wildlings make any sense if you start thinking about it. This is true of ASoIaF in general though. The Iron Islands, Dorne, endless winters, the Eyerie, the Watch (why do they stay), the not-mongols, nobody noticed that all of cersies kids had blonde hair?, the list of things that don't make sense goes on and on. I think the big lore book that GRRM didn’t write says that life beyond the wall is normally not an uninhabitable wasteland but the coming of the Others and the Long Night has destroyed their ability to farm among other things. I read that on Reddit before and that’s the only source I can think of that would say that.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:03
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Just glorious
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Jul 12, 2021 21:23
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Most of Planetos makes sense in the books, within acceptable breaks from reality, with a few glaring exceptions. -As I said before, the years-long winter is the biggest one. Unless there is some Dwarf Fortress-style fungus or magical plant which can grow underground year-round, there is no way Westeros north of Dorne wouldn't be collapsing into the stone age, if not outright being wiped out, every winter. Surviving a near complete absence of agriculture for years on end would be a devastating calamity for a modern civilization, but for a civilization that lacks the ability to refrigerate food or create canned food, yeah. Even within the confines of a fantasy setting, how society manages to endure a years-long winter is absolutely something that demands explanation. Martin gives none. -Why have the Ironmen not been subject to genocide? I mean the ruling house even proudly declares, as their literal motto, their unwillingness to abide by the rules of civilized society, and it's not like the Iron Islands have much to offer the Seven Kingdoms - and even if they did, the Targaryens could have just wiped out the Ironmen and resettled. You can argue that Robert's position was too tenuous to allow him to enact the outright genocide of the Isles, but you have 300 years of Targaryen rule where it could have been effected, and a fair few decades of those years where the presence of dragons would have made doing it quite trivial. If not subject to genocide, why are they tolerated and not treated as no better than Wildlings? Like basically why the gently caress does anyone, ever, act like the Ironmen are anything more than the reavers they proudly declare themselves to be? What is Westeros getting out of pretending that the Iron Isles aren't what they are? -The Unsullied are absurd. 'You know what would make badass soldiers? Castrating boys before their balls drop so their hormone levels are totally hosed. Not like testosterone is helpful for an army.' I feel like those two are the most egregious and 'objective' issues. But I mean close to them are -Essos in general is weird. Culturally it seems to be around the Renaissance and more sophisticated and advanced than Westeros, but in terms of their military technology and tactics, they're loving bronze and iron age. -Arguably a bigger one; the Dothraki also make no sense. They are treated in-universe as being as fierce and terrifying as the Mongols were, but lack any of the actual qualities or traits that made the Mongols that. They stand out as poorly thought out even by the standards of generic barbarian Others because like, yeah, they're not as big on archery as they should be. They also don't have clear motives; they aren't trying to build an empire until Drogo comes around, but since they don't actually trade with others except in one city most people can't reach and accepting 'gifts' in exchange for not raiding a city (and how are they a threat? What are screaming maniacs who are terrified of the ocean going to do to a bunch of port cities? Even if they laid siege it's not like the city would care, just focus on sea trade until the Dothraki get loving bored.) so like why do they want slaves? Other than sex slaves, what is a Dothraki going to do with a slave? They don't have fields to put them to work in, or homes to make them servants in, and they don't use slave soldiers. Tyrion asks where do whores go, but I wanna know where slaves in the Dothraki Sea go? If you say they get sent to Vaes Dothrak that's still not much of an answer because that one city cannot possibly have a big enough population to really justify the amount of slaves Dothraki are implied to take. Also, you know, unless you're castrating them and I don't recall him mentioning that, slaves are a 'resource' that grows on its own. Most of the slaves in Vaes Dothrak should, by now, be the descendants of slaves rather than people taken into bondage. That all said, other than the issue of winter and the Iron Isles, I feel like most of the stuff in Westeros is fairly logically consistent within the framework of the setting and also well thought out enough and 'plausible' enough for fantasy. Yeah, the Wall is loving absurd but the exact height of it doesn't particularly matter beyond 'it's more or less insurmountable' and we are told explicitly it was made with magic. It's ridiculous but in a way that is intentional. It's fine. EDIT: Actually, also, the Dothraki are generally shown to be individualistic and undisciplined as per the barbarian archetype. How are they even going to lay siege to a city? That requires discipline and organization. How are you going to convince a bunch of Dothraki to wait around outside a city for months until the city surrenders? RoboChrist 9000 fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 21:36
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Wrt the taking of slaves by the Dothrakuu, it's either stated or implied they gather the slaves to sell off to the three nearby slaving nations in exchange for whatever. Gold, grain, etc.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:46
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The various barbarians are very unrealistic, but that's par for the course for a fantasy setting. As far as winter resources go, it's stated that the south of Westeros (the Reach and surrounding areas) can produce agricultural products even in winter. And the North has greenhouses. It's also established that characters can live on some salt fish they happen to have in their pockets, combined with the occasional rabbit or frog, for weeks of hard travel. So in conclusion, while GRRM is aware that resource limits are relevant to medieval politics, he clearly doesn't actually know anything about economic resources and his worldbuilding reflects that. The one thing that bothers me more than anything, is the sheer amount of violence portrayed in Westerosi society. It's 30 years war levels of devastation, but on the scale of a whole continent. They should be experiencing severe depopulation, and coming up with schemes to mass import wildlings and Essos peasants.
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Jul 12, 2021 21:54
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Alhazred posted:Also, the ones who isn't criminals is so obsessed with honor and duty that it wouldn't cross their minds to leave. Ehh. The Watch is severely dumb. The North is well established to be loving massive (as much land as all the other realms conbimed!), and thinly peopled. This organization is regularly putting weapons, armor and horses worth years of the average peasant or even craftsman's income in the hand of criminals and malcontents. All they have to do is wait for a task a day or two away, bolt, steal some different clothes from a farmstead and either board a ship or stay off the Kingsroad. What is the watch going to do, mobilize their 900-something manpower to find you in and area the size of western europe when you have several days of a head start? Hell, half of the parties sent after you would likely desert as well. They could send ravens to the lords to mobilize their own guards, but it's still a massive place, and this is before pictures and ID. Are you going to arrest every brown-haired nobody from out of town to catch one straggler? There's a reason most early military organizations like knight orders were drilled from childhood and instilled with either borderline fanaticism or the real thing. You don't give the medieval equivalent of Jeffrey Dahmer the medieval equivalent of a car and an AK-47 and expect good things to happen. ...gently caress, I just remembered that Biter was a thing. The watch was literally carting a dangerous, nonverbal cannibal to Castle Black to... do something. Can you imagine him going beyond the wall with the rangers? "Ok, Biter, you get first watch while we sleep. Then it's Tasty Bob, then Yummy Steve. Be a good boy now, we are tired and plan to sleep very deeply!"
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Jul 12, 2021 22:02
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pidan posted:The one thing that bothers me more than anything, is the sheer amount of violence portrayed in Westerosi society. It's 30 years war levels of devastation, but on the scale of a whole continent. They should be experiencing severe depopulation, and coming up with schemes to mass import wildlings and Essos peasants. EDIT: To be fair, I legit forget; how dangerous is life on the Wall in normal times when the Others aren't waking up and the dead going all walkabouts? Like desertion would still be a massive problem - especially since if nothing else you have rightly pointed out that brothers of the watch are given valuable poo poo to sell - but I imagine that under normal circumstances life at the wall is, for at least peasants, probably not more unpleasant than life in the north anyway. RoboChrist 9000 fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 22:03
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:
Ehh, I agree with your other points, but this one I think doesn't hold water. The explicitly stated point of the Unsullied isn't that they're the strongest and most individually deadly, it's that they will keep fighting and never break, regardless of odds against them and losses taken, and that's achieved by subjecting them to psychological and physical torture (of which castration is only a part) since early age as well as drugging them to the gills with some fantasy substance that destroys their pain response. I think this is easy to take in stride, unlike societies surviving a multi-year winter. Valuing soldiers who will not run away over ones who are individually a little bit stronger is honestly one of the most realistic points GRRM makes, because when you read actual history (or sufficiently realistic fiction, for that matter), battles are almost never ended by one side all dying, they're ended when one side breaks and runs, or throws down their weapons and surrenders if they're reasonably confident they won't be murdered.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:18
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The Other's emit honor as a byproduct. This is why as you move north, you run into more honor bound types. In the south you have the dancing tree people or whatever the grenade throwing elves are called. They are hedonistic gently caress sluts, like all southerns. They emit incest fuckslut energy as a by product. As criminals from the south are shipped north, they have on average more honor, combined with the prison planet like environment of the wall, become unwilling to desert en mass. Already honorable people, serve as Honor repeaters - rebroadcasting the honor energy, and causing the nights watchmen to flock to them.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:57
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Kylaer posted:Ehh, I agree with your other points, but this one I think doesn't hold water. The explicitly stated point of the Unsullied isn't that they're the strongest and most individually deadly, it's that they will keep fighting and never break, regardless of odds against them and losses taken, and that's achieved by subjecting them to psychological and physical torture (of which castration is only a part) since early age as well as drugging them to the gills with some fantasy substance that destroys their pain response. I think this is easy to take in stride, unlike societies surviving a multi-year winter. Valuing soldiers who will not run away over ones who are individually a little bit stronger is honestly one of the most realistic points GRRM makes, because when you read actual history (or sufficiently realistic fiction, for that matter), battles are almost never ended by one side all dying, they're ended when one side breaks and runs, or throws down their weapons and surrenders if they're reasonably confident they won't be murdered. That's true, but combat is a relatively tiny component of what any pre-modern army does. For all the other time it's critically important that they be able to carry a lot of poo poo with them.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:14
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Yeah. The greatest boon of the Unsullied being their superhuman discipline checks out and is correct to war in arguably any period, but especially the vaguely medieval/renaissance period ASOIAF purports to reference. But there is no place, time, or whatever where anyone would desire their elite soldiers have *less* testosterone. Generally speaking if something is physically possible and not prohibitively expensive, and yet in all of human history no group have ever even experimented with it, you can probably safely assume it's a terrible idea. The fact that it is possible and cheap IRL to create an army of castrati and yet, to my knowledge no one has ever done so is legitimately an argument against it as a plausible idea. Eunuchs are found in courts not battlefields and there's a reason for it. Like it's not getting biotruths to say that you probably don't want your soldiers, especially in a time period where all weapons are based on the physical strength of their wielder, to have less developed muscles and less aggression than literally anyone else they are fighting.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:22
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Did we ever get an answer whether the Unsullied were cut root and stem? I seem to recall some confusion between them and Varys if either retained one part or the other.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:24
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Castrating them is part of the dehumanization process, along with taking their names. Everything about the process of their creation is about making them not people, and if they weren't castrated, they would be significantly more human. They're not supposed to have emotions, they're not supposed to have desires, they're not supposed to have anything except willingness to obey their designated owner. It's not a realistic thing but in the fantasy-setting context I think it's plausible. Of all the things to take issue with GRRM's grasp of reality about, I'd say this is very low on the list. Also the Unsullied spend their entire lives in grueling training regimens, and one of their qualification tests is to climb a mountain at night with a full backpack. I think you're overselling the impact of testosterone - look at what female athletes who engage in full-time training regimens can achieve, especially if you're comparing them to people who have to do other things in their lives besides train. Yes, testosterone is the performance-enhancing drug against which all others are compared, but a castrated male full-time athlete-soldier is absolutely going to be able to compete in the same strength class as a hormonally normal male militia soldier who spends most of his time making shoes.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:39
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I think the biggest problem with the unsullied is there is no way they'd be cost-effective. They do all these dumb tests where they kill anyone who fails, nobody would make a profit on that model. The names thing is really dumb though, like what is even the point of giving them a name each day? Who is going to know how to use it? I guess if they used the same listing of names, like there's a grey worm every day, then it might be okay, you'd just pick a name from the list of names you know exist and that would be someone. I.E. Black Dog has watch tonight. Which might mean the same guy has watch every night under a different name. As to the testosterone thing, it's hard to say, everyone always sort of assumed that losing your testes made you girly, but a lot of the modern research about testosterone and men vs women shows there are a lot of factors. Also, the roman legionnaires were generally less fit and strong than their opponents, certainly when fighting the Gauls, any legionaire would've probably lost in a fight to random Gaul. So I think this is one of the less stupid things in ASoIaF, the emphasis on dehumanization and discipline and obedience, and they also use mostly roman equipment, though it's more like a phalanx than a roman shield wall, but even so. Though when I really think about the unsullied they get dumber. Like they treat them like poo poo and teach them not to fear death, but supposedly they are just these obedience machines. Why would they obey? Are you going to punish them? You already treat them like animals at best. They don't fear death or pain... so how are you going to punish them? pseudanonymous fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 00:05
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I always thought the unsullied were all talk by a salesman anyways, and that most people buy them as guards for thier house or whatever and don't actually see fighting, just coasting in their reputation. it's been a long time since I read the books but I don't remember and real combat they do. Also I thought they said that IF (they won't) dothraki invaded westeros that the castles would all be safe, since they can't siege, but the small towns and what not would get it, and turn on whoever the king was...or maybe that was the show.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:12
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quote:Also, the roman legionnaires were generally less fit and strong than their opponents, certainly when fighting the Gauls, any legionaire would've probably lost in a fight to random Gaul. Ehh this is definitely a contentious belief. Were there pretty tall Celts and Germans that were intimidating sure. But in no way were the Romans less fit and strong because the backbone of the entire Roman Legionary System was the most advanced and robust logistical system of the ancient world that allowed a continental spanning empire to amply feed and supply its troops at its furthest corner. These were also full time professional soldiers who when not on campaign fighting were either drilling or building poo poo like roads and forts and dykes. They were very fit.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:14
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Kylaer posted:Castrating them is part of the dehumanization process, along with taking their names. Everything about the process of their creation is about making them not people, and if they weren't castrated, they would be significantly more human. They're not supposed to have emotions, they're not supposed to have desires, they're not supposed to have anything except willingness to obey their designated owner. It's not a realistic thing but in the fantasy-setting context I think it's plausible. Of all the things to take issue with GRRM's grasp of reality about, I'd say this is very low on the list. I may be overselling it, yeah. The issue is that unless I'm misremembering, the Unsullied were castrated pre-puberty. Wouldn't being biologically male - again a fraught term but I think you know what I mean here - and being castrated prior to puberty have more ramifications than being biologically female? Like besides just lacking testosterone, doesn't it leave you developmentally a bit off, physically? Again, I'm not trying to get biotruths, poo poo on female athletes, or be all gender essentialist. Transwomen are women, and by and large the physical differences between the physical sexes don't matter terribly much. But my understanding, which may be flawed, was that the difference in terms of muscular development and potential between a healthy adult male and a male who was castrated prior to puberty are more substantial than those between a healthy adult male and a healthy adult female. EDIT: loving enter early. EDIT EDIT: And, yeah, ultimately I feel like the Unsullied are still less important than the other stuff. RoboChrist 9000 fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 00:32
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CraigSlice posted:I always thought the unsullied were all talk by a salesman anyways, and that most people buy them as guards for thier house or whatever and don't actually see fighting, just coasting in their reputation. it's been a long time since I read the books but I don't remember and real combat they do. Jorah says that, basically, if the Dothraki invaded and the Westerosi just holed up in the castles they wouldn't know what to do, but that Robert was too stupid to not fight them. Also a plan like that is fine in theory, but if Highgarden decides to hail the Dothraki as the new kings of the 7 kingdoms, and you are hiding in King's Landing, not a lot you can do about it.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:36
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Jul 13, 2021 00:37
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Ehh this is definitely a contentious belief. Were there pretty tall Celts and Germans that were intimidating sure. But in no way were the Romans less fit and strong because the backbone of the entire Roman Legionary System was the most advanced and robust logistical system of the ancient world that allowed a continental spanning empire to amply feed and supply its troops at its furthest corner. These were also full time professional soldiers who when not on campaign fighting were either drilling or building poo poo like roads and forts and dykes. They were very fit. Do you even lift Bro? We're talking Chad Gauls here strutting around, eating wild pheasant and venison every day, and then virgin Romans, eating nothing but a morsel of bread, having to walk 20 leagues a day. Also Rome was like, pretty big, in all seriousness, and my understanding was that there weren't a lot of excess calories flowing to feed the plebs. Like, not starving, but if you want to get shredded, like cheddar cheese shredded, you have to eat a lot of protein. So I always thought the romans were quite fit, and had a lot of endurance, but probably weren't the biggest guys, and their whole theory of combat revolved around discipline and not physical strength, whereas the Gauls and other tribes were very much about showy displays and big weapons etc.. Other than Biggus Dickus, he was obviously pretty big.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:41
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Erasing your troops' pain response is also a great way to have them miss a pebble in their boot, a scraping edge in their armor or a minor wound that will fester in your medieval conditions and kill 10% of your army each month with infections and end your force with attrition before they were fight the enemy. Being immune to pain is one of those things that _seems_ like a superpower until you think about it for more than 20 seconds. Forgivable if you suffer from migraine or another chronic ailment, but not in a writer trying to world-build.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:16
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Sephyr posted:Erasing your troops' pain response is also a great way to have them miss a pebble in their boot, a scraping edge in their armor or a minor wound that will fester in your medieval conditions and kill 10% of your army each month with infections and end your force with attrition before they were fight the enemy. House had an episode about this that really drove home how terrible your life would be with this condition.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:21
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Yeah. It's literally "Ooops I zipped my pants wrong and caught my nutsac in the fly, normally I'd be howling and getting it free but I felt nothing so I'll go have my workday and only notice it 8 hours from now when it's a major crisis."
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Jul 13, 2021 01:29
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Jul 13, 2021 01:35
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Ehh this is definitely a contentious belief. Were there pretty tall Celts and Germans that were intimidating sure. But in no way were the Romans less fit and strong because the backbone of the entire Roman Legionary System was the most advanced and robust logistical system of the ancient world that allowed a continental spanning empire to amply feed and supply its troops at its furthest corner. These were also full time professional soldiers who when not on campaign fighting were either drilling or building poo poo like roads and forts and dykes. They were very fit. It was very much a part of common Roman storytelling to emphasize how large and strong the Gauls and Germans were, in comparison with their own soldiers, because that makes it sound more heroic to slaughter them and enslave the survivors. Were they really bigger than the legionaries? Probably a little bit, but the "giant barbarians losing to the discipline of their smaller and weaker foes" is history written by the victors. RoboChrist 9000 posted:I may be overselling it, yeah. The issue is that unless I'm misremembering, the Unsullied were castrated pre-puberty. Wouldn't being biologically male - again a fraught term but I think you know what I mean here - and being castrated prior to puberty have more ramifications than being biologically female? Like besides just lacking testosterone, doesn't it leave you developmentally a bit off, physically? I'm pretty sure I've read about examples of castrati from the early modern period who were well documented as physically quite fit and otherwise healthy. I'd have to go digging for references. And I'm agreeing with you that testosterone is the gold standard of performance enhancing drugs, I just don't think it matters enough that it would be a deciding factor in how viable a castrati army would be.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:45
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ASoIaF: how viable a castrati army
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