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sebmojo posted:they did have showers in the 60s, they're not a 21st century invention when you drink as much as don, it doesn't really help anyway what prompted the inquisition was someone noticing that don appears to go from gently caress mode to work/family mode with no explicit signs that he's showered in between, so don't @ me about 20th century bathing technology like i don't know Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 05:01
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Ainsley McTree posted:when you drink as much as don, it doesn't really help We never see him poop either ftm
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Jul 8, 2021 05:10
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sebmojo posted:We never see him poop either ftm did you read the most recent recap? it's established that people poop in this universe (well, when they can concentrate anyway)
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Jul 8, 2021 05:12
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Duck pausing and looking around at his surroundings like,"....hey she's right, this doesn't look like a Don Draper type of office.... " absolutely cracked me up.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:20
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Ainsley McTree posted:did you read the most recent recap? it's established that people poop in this universe (well, when they can concentrate anyway) exactly, the poop wasn't completed, and you can call that coincidence but, (laughs tolerantly) some of us are actually watching the show
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Jul 8, 2021 05:23
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Jerusalem posted:Duck pausing and looking around at his surroundings like,"....hey she's right, this doesn't look like a Don Draper type of office.... The revelation of "This is a ROGER STERLING office" is even more confounding
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Jul 8, 2021 05:25
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JethroMcB posted:The revelation of "This is a ROGER STERLING office" is even more confounding I can't poop here, that would be the act of a crazy man
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Jul 8, 2021 05:27
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sebmojo posted:I can't poop here, that would be the act of a crazy man Right, time to belt up my pants while the turtle head is still poking out and declare my undying love, that'll sweep her off her feet!
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Jul 8, 2021 05:36
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Ainsley McTree posted:did you read the most recent recap? it's established that people poop in this universe (well, when they can concentrate anyway)   
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Jul 8, 2021 05:37
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I always mourn Anna's passing; it must be heaven having someone that just completely chill in your life; even just knowing they're out there and they love you. She contrasts so sharply against every other character in this show - they're all clamoring constantly. It must be exhausting being around every single one of them. Maybe Peggy's dad is alright.
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Jul 8, 2021 08:04
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Schlieren posted:Maybe Peggy's dad is alright. Well, not since she was 12, it seems. 
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Jul 8, 2021 08:13
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Ainsley McTree posted:Yeah I mentioned earlier in the thread that even without the sex, Don and Roger must have smelled absolutely awful at all times on account of the nonstop drinking and smoking; the response seemed to be that prior to widespread smoking bans, everyone just kind of smelled like that apparently (or at least were around the smell often enough that maybe it just didn't stand out as exceptional); i suppose adding a bit of sex to the mix isn't enough to be remarkable. There was a scene early in S1 where he's in bed with Midge and she says he stinks, and he makes a comment along the lines of "I thought women like that."
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Jul 8, 2021 14:02
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Cat Army
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The reaction to the can of Right Guard should tell you everything you need to know.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:06
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So back to the ep, I think its just an astonishing depiction of boss employee, mentor mentee relationship. It's clear that Matt Weiner and Kim Gordon are pulling from their own experiences as writers and artists in a commercial system, and its hard to think of another TV show that nails the utter irrationality of working under a tempermental boss like this episode does. Feels like most shows go out of their way to depict bosses as being much more reasonable and even banded, when in reality they're just dumping on you unnecessarily bc they hate their lives. I appreciated that.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:35
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Schlieren posted:I always mourn Anna's passing; it must be heaven having someone that just completely chill in your life; even just knowing they're out there and they love you. Upon rewatches, the earlier scene where Anna says, "I know everything about you, and I still love you," is absolutely devastating. Nobody in Don's life has ever been that emotionally direct or that kind with him, and the fact she knew that's what he needed to hear speaks volumes of how well she did know him. In this episode, when Don describes her as, "the only person who really knew me," what's unspoken is that - in Don's mind - she's the only person who really loved him. It's a loving dagger in the heart, this scene. S7E2 The later episode that reminds me of this is when Don drives Sally back to school. It's after she caught him cheating with Sylvia, after she called him disgusting and ducked all his calls, after learning where he grew up. He admits that he lost his job, that he's estranged from Megan, and is generally at a profound low point. But she still says, "I love you." And Don's reaction looks to be surprise: how could she possibly? And yet, somehow, she does.
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Jul 8, 2021 22:38
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Xealot posted:The later episode that reminds me of this is when Don drives Sally back to school. It's after she caught him cheating with Sylvia, after she called him disgusting and ducked all his calls, after learning where he grew up. He admits that he lost his job, that he's estranged from Megan, and is generally at a profound low point. But she still says, "I love you." And Don's reaction looks to be surprise: how could she possibly? And yet, somehow, she does. if this scene doesnt make you cry you're a loving monster
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Jul 9, 2021 01:14
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Xealot posted:S7E2 The later episode that reminds me of this is when Don drives Sally back to school. It's after she caught him cheating with Sylvia, after she called him disgusting and ducked all his calls, after learning where he grew up. He admits that he lost his job, that he's estranged from Megan, and is generally at a profound low point. But she still says, "I love you." And Don's reaction looks to be surprise: how could she possibly? And yet, somehow, she does. I think this also plays back into the finale where he relates to the guy in the group session. Don is very struck by him specifically saying that it's not that people don't love him, but it's that they do and he doesn't know what love actually is, and therefore is incapable of receiving it. We as viewers may make the "and yet, somehow, she does" connection, but in that moment Don absolutely does not. It's pure confusion and self loathing.
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Jul 9, 2021 18:46
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Season 4, Episode 8 - The Summer Man Written by Lisa Albert, Janet Leahy & Matthew Weiner, Directed by Phil Abraham Joan Harris posted:I'm a meaningless secretary, and you're another humorless bitch. It's the 15th of June, 1965, and Don Draper.... has a journal? After an opening shot of Don swimming in an indoor pool, the next is Don sitting in his apartment writing in a journal by hand, a voice-over narration giving the viewer insight into what he is thinking/writing. And what is he thinking/writing? That he has a drinking problem. At last. In typical Don Draper deflection, he makes a joke of it, pulling out the old chestnut that you don't have a drinking problem until you actually stop drinking. But he is aware seemingly at last on just how much he had come to rely on his drinking to get him through a day, and how bad it is that now he has stopped his body and mind are acting out because they want the sweet booze they've come to expect. He has trouble thinking straight, and he's obviously forcing himself to exercise more both to get back into shape AND distract his mind. But along with the deflection comes reflection, as he ponders the lack of handwriting in his life. He's gotten by at work mostly by typewriting, all his other writing usually been fragments of sentences and the odd phrase scribbled on the back of a napkin at a bar (while drinking) or with one of his mistresses. Now that he wants to actually put down his thoughts, the typewriter is too associated with work, and he's realized that even in High School he went out of his way to avoid writing as much as possible. He criticizes himself for being so lazy and for never finishing high school in the first place (presumably Roger and Cooper have never bothered to ask if he went to college, or he's been successful at talking around the subject). As he writes, he drinks coffee... but there is also a bottle of beer on the desk too that is mostly empty. Don hasn't gone cold turkey, when he says he has "stopped" drinking he means he isn't living like a fish anymore. In other words, he is trying to CONTROL his drinking. What was the impetus for this decision? A culmination of many things? The death of Anna? Or perhaps a natural and in-character horror at realizing how much he opened himself up to Peggy Olson in his recent vulnerable state? At the pool, Don is seen swimming again, completing a lap and having to stop to hack out a cough. A lifeguard stops to ask if he is okay and he nods he is fine. The lifeguard moves on, and Don breathes in heavily, the physical exertion having reminded him of a sad truth his doctor long ago tried to tell him: he isn't getting any younger. Going to the changing room, he sits for awhile recovering, listening to the Rolling Stones on a small portable radio bought in by another swimmer, perhaps contemplating how he let things get this bad for him. Except... when he leaves the gym - the New York Athletic Club, it seems he kept that membership Jim Hobart at McCann Erickson tried to bribe him with - the front is back up and the perfect image is once again in place. Don Draper pauses outside on the hot summer streets of New York, immaculately dressed, not a hair out of place, handsome and strong and sophisticated and as far from the image of a middle-aged man bewildered by his own physical decline as it can get. He ponders the odd impression he's getting that he can smell corn, while pretty young women and a happy couple pass, the Rolling Stones now non-diegetic. As an aside, the couple are black. Perhaps it means nothing, but in a show where black characters have mostly been shown in subservient or marginalized roles, the well-dressed black couple moving confidently through and past wealthy white people marks a welcome change and perhaps a minor sign of the ongoing changes of the time.   Arriving at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, Don is all handsome swagger striding down the corridors. Miss Blankenship is waiting for him, wearing dark glasses, and Don asks how her eye surgery went. It was horrible! she declares, complaining about the ether and the new glasses she has to wear, but then admits that her vision was awful and now she can actually see again. Don assures her that if she needs more time off she can take it, but she quickly informs "Roger" that she is fine, and when Don pauses to consider how to respond to this, she cackles and admits she's just kidding around. Somewhat relieved, Don explains he left his book at home and asks her to get him the number for Bethany Van Nuys. Meanwhile in a nearby corridor, Stan and Joey are violently rocking a vending machine while Harry, Ken, Peggy and a secretary stand by watching. Harry suggests they lift it up and drop it down, Stan noting that while he may be stronger than Harry he's not THAT strong. Joey though, full of youthful vigor, thinks maybe they can pull it off. Rather than lifting though they tilt, Joey keeping it from tipping all the way over before they slam it back down onto the ground, everybody giggling over their antics. And then Joan Harris shows up. Outraged, she demands to know what is going on. Peggy quickly declares she doesn't know and Harry rushes to explain he was just passing through on his way to the men's room and got blocked before making a quick exit. Joan demands everybody else get to work, more confused than ever when Joey jumps right to the end and explains that the vending machine ate his watch. Stan has to elaborate, Ken tried to buy a Clark Bar and it age his change, and since Danny wasn't there they went to Peggy thinking she had the smallest hands and could reach in to collect the undistributed candy, but it turned out Joey's were even smaller/more delicate (he is an artist, after all). Joey is quick to explain it's not that his hands are smaller, but that he volunteered before he'd done it before. Instead though he lost his watch, and he rolls his eyes at Joan's angry suggestion they should have just paid with another dime, saying they tried that. Ken remains jokey, but he stresses that the machine is a "bandit" that takes money without giving out the treats it is meant to. Joan doesn't care though, she's just tired of all the noise and violent treatment of the machine and snaps at them not to do it again before turning to leave... and Joey chuckles that he's sorry.... mom. gently caress. She turns, and everybody else is smart enough to sense the danger. Ken shuts up and breaks eye contact, while Stan attempts to play peacemaker by loudly declaring that everything is over now. But Joey complains that after all he has lost his watch, what else is he supposed to do? Irritated beyond belief, Joan points out what he and anybody should do in this situation is call the complaint number that is literally on the machine so an "adult" can come and solve this problem for them. This line is immediately followed by a different kind of man-child storming in, as Pete Campbell shows up demanding to know what all the noise was about and making sure to let everybody know he was on an extremely important phone-call. When Joey smirks that Joan was handing out demerits though, even literal partner Pete Campbell casts a worried look Joan's way, knowing that this is NOT a woman you want to cross on any terms. Joan plans to make Joey aware of this too, ordering him into her office now. She leaves, and Stan winces while Ken continues to very deliberately not get involved. Joey though, dipshit that he is, chuckles that he's going to get a private spanking just like in his dreams, and follows after her. That leaves Pete, who looks over the rest of the scene and finally speaks to ask the important question.... when did they get a vending machine!?! Joey enters Joan's office trying to put on a hangdog expression but unable to keep the cheeky smile off of his face. Joan closes the other door as Joey lights up a cigarette, reminding him that while he may be a freelancer who works in other offices, his behavior will not be tolerated in THIS space. Not making any bones about the fact he finds this dressing down pointless and that he doesn't take it at all seriously, he complains that she is always on his case, and goes so far as to tells her she's wrong about him being disrespectful because Stan is worse. "Maybe he's better at his job?" she offers back tartly, but Joey isn't listening, distracted because on the other side of the window behind her back, Stan himself has appeared and dropped his pants to moon their meeting. Joey can't help himself, breaking out into laughter, which outrages Joan even more than she had been. She remarks that he's arrogant, and that he takes exception to, because as far as he is concerned SHE is the arrogant one... after all, what does she do around here besides walk around like she's trying to get raped? Jesus Christ, Joey. She stands stunned for a moment, unable to believe the sheer audacity of what he just said. "Excuse me?" she says at last, both trying to hammer home to him the utter inappropriateness of what he just said as well as give him a chance to back down. Instead, Joey declares that he's not some young girl off a bus and he doesn't need somebody dressed like a Madam in a Shanghai whorehouse telling him what to do. With that, he stubbs out his cigarette in HER ashtray and simply walks out of the office, leaving her completely at a loss for words. She has never been so disrespected before by an underling, even in the worst of her clashes with Peggy Olson. She has never been spoken to so inappropriately, so utterly dismissed and openly mocked. And by who? Some freelance part-timer KID!?! To make matters worse, suddenly Peggy Olson comes barging into the office, stopping when she sees her and apologizing since she didn't know she would be in here. Where the hell else would she be? demands Joan, pointing out that this is HER office and she's tired of them all treating it like a thoroughfare. Peggy, far quicker than Joey to pick up on when to back down, immediately apologizes, and doesn't rise to the bait when Joan sneers she should take the extra steps because she needs them. Irritated, Joan complains she is leaving for the day anyway, but Peggy just apologizes again and backs out of the office. Joan collects her coat, but before she goes she hears loud laughter and looks through the window, seeing Joey sitting with Stan, Ken and Harry. All of them are laughing, one moaning,"OH NOOOO!!!" at something that has just been said: presumably Joey just entertained them all with his recounting of how his dressing down by Joan went. Appalled, humiliated, and feeling far from valued, the woman who made the creation of SCDP a reality in the first place beats a rare retreat from what is normally clearly HER domain.   As an aside, even though Joey absolutely wouldn't know it (nobody does) and Joan herself probably does her best never to think of it, she was also the victim of a rape in the office before. That it was by the man who would become her husband doesn't make it better (hell it makes it worse in many ways), and even without that viewer knowledge Joey's line was INCREDIBLY inappropriate regardless. But on some level, that line has to hit Joan just a little bit harder, even if she would have been just as furious - and justifiably so! - for him saying that to her in the first place. On a more comical note, Miss Blankenship staggers down the corridor awkwardly clutching four bottles of Canadian Club whisky. Peggy spots her and very awkwardly tries to greet her without saying anything that might be misconstrued as a comment about her eyesight, and finally just offers to help her carry the bottles. "FINALLY somebody offers," complains Miss Blankenship, then ignores Peggy and keeps her grip tight on all four bottles as she complains in Don's direction that she can see just fine. Peggy makes a quick exit, while Don - who is looking around in Miss Blankenship's drawers - ignores his elderly secretary's predicament to complain that he is out of cigarettes. Finally spotting all the bottles as she places them all on the desk, he tells her he doesn't need any more booze because there is enough in the office already, and without a hint of hesitation she responds there is until there isn't. How does that hit Don? The realization that even a blind and somewhat dotty old woman like Miss Blankenship was fully aware of just how much heavy drinking he was doing? Still he doesn't need or want the temptation, telling her - and not offering to help - to return the bottles to the storeroom and get him some cigarettes. As she collects the bottles up again (all four, no second trip for her!) she informs him that his wife called, making him sigh and remind her yet again Betty isn't his wife. "Mrs Francis" she says instead, who called to inform him he couldn't have the kids this weekend because of Bobby's birthday making things too complicated. Still trying to keep him temper, Don explains it is Gene's birthday and not Bobby's, and since it could be Gene or Jean, Miss Blankenship asks if he wants her to buy him/her a present? ".......no," Don says at last, hating every moment of this torture but knowing this is the price he still has to pay for loving up things with Allison (another reminder that Joan does a hell of a lot more than just walk around the office). He returns to the relative mercy of his office, while Miss Blankenship prepares to struggle her way back to the storeroom with all four bottles at once. Joan returns home, noting but explicitly not allowing herself to react to the sight of one of Greg's suitcases packed and on a chair. He emerges from the bathroom in his underwear and a shirt, drying his hair from a shower and delighted to see her. His hair is close cut, though probably still a bit "long" for military standards, and it looks like he has been keeping far fitter than Don Draper. She steps into his arms and they kiss, and she asks if he minds that she is home early, which of course he does not. Their schedules already make it difficult for them to see each other, having her here now is an unexpected treat. He is surprised though, because he's packing for basic training and he knows she didn't want to be here as that happened. Hell, she freely admits that she doesn't even want to say goodbye to him when he goes, because she's still trying to deny the reality that he's about to begin training for a probable overseas tour of duty in a war zone. Greg of course keeps playing it down, it's only basic training, he'll be back from that before he has to go anywhere etc. When she reminds him that he told her they use live ammunition in basic training, he simply leads her into the bedroom and onto the bed. She knows what he wants, but she tells him openly that sex doesn't make things better, if anything it makes things worse: knowing that this physical intimacy won't be possible again for weeks and possibly months (and possibly never again). He continues to insist everything is fine though, the training will be 8 weeks, then he'll be back home until he gets his orders. Fighting to keep a smile on her face, she asks what she will do and who she will talk to when he is gone, and with a shrug he says the worst thing possible: she can talk to her friends at work. She absorbs that for a second and then she can't hold it in anymore, and she bursts into tears. She doesn't explain why, and he probably wouldn't understand if she did, but that simple line was an unwelcome reminder that she feels like she doesn't have any friends at work... in fact, in many ways she has arranged things that way for the better and more efficient running of the office. No, she separates her work and personal lives (well she has since Roger anyway), the person she wants to open herself up to and be vulnerable with and talk to about her feelings isn't Don Draper or Peggy Olson or Lane Pryce or Harry Crane or anybody else. It's her husband, and he's going away, and that leaves her with NOTHING. He passes her a towel to try her eyes and asks her gently if not particularly sensitively if this is really how she wants to spend this time together with him? Crying? He kisses her and she resists at first, saying she can't, but she allows herself to be carried along when he smiles and says they can pretend they've snuck away from work to some cheap midtown motel for an afternoon. She's not in the mood, but she is desperate to hold on to him for however long she can in whatever way she can. So she settles for the physical expression of that need, when what she desperately wants and needs is her psychological and emotional needs taken care of.  Speaking of taking care of needs, Don Draper does just that when he goes home too.... dumping a can of Dinty Moore beef stew into a pot to heat up. It looks like it has the consistency and taste of dog food, but Don just wants something to eat and he sure as hell isn't going to take the time to learn how to cook a proper meal. On television the coverage, of course, is all about Vietnam. Taking a can of Budweiser to his writing desk, he watches the news for a few moments before beginning to write, noting that he hopes Vietnam doesn't turn out to be another Korea (a monkey paw curls) before forgetting all about the world to talk about himself. He complains he feels like a little girl writing down what happened today, but then the words come pouring out (GO TO THERAPY, DON!) as he ponders the plight of little Gene Draper (Francis now?) and his upcoming birthday. Gene was conceived in a moment of desperation and born into a mess.... and these thoughts all hit a little too close to home. So instead, Don takes a sip of his beer, watches the mess in Vietnam for a little bit instead, and then moves to safer territory as he throws out a list of things he'd like to do. But even then, he can't escape introspection. As a scene of him once again swimming is shown, he runs through the list starting with what he probably feels he SHOULD want: to climb Mount Kilimanjaro or hell just go anywhere in Africa at all. But the next item is to gain a modicum of control over the way he feels, and as he's shown sinking to the bottom of the pool he admits that he doesn't want to feel like "that man" again. What does he mean by that? Dick Whitman? Don Draper? The helpless drunk? The vulnerable sobbing child he allowed himself to be in the immediate aftermath of Anna's death? When he returns to work, he finds his attention wandering from what is being presented to him in his office as he focuses on the bottle of liquor on the table. Ken, Peggy and Stan are here for a meeting and Ken, of course, has poured them all drinks. Don takes his without demurring, but makes no move to drink it: no need to make a fuss (in fact he'd be mortified at the idea of drawing attention to his reduced drinking) but also no need to have to fit in... after all, this is HIS office and he is the boss. The meeting is regarding Mountain Dew, Ken all smiles to hide the fact he's probably sweating bullets over the negative reaction to the work they've presented: if he loses Mountain Dew as an account, a large part of what got him hired on at SCDP goes with it. He does his best to play it off as an issue with the bottlers and not Pepsi themselves, explaining that in the "Sodie Pop" industry the bottlers have all the power, and they read the graphic as occult-like. Don IS upset, mostly because the imagery they wanted to use - a hillbilly brewing Mountain Dew - is now tainted goods after the initial complaint. They can't just rework what they already had, there will be a negative connotation, which means they have to come up with an entirely new idea. He tells an alarmed Stan to come up with something new, and Peggy quickly leaps in to explain that she had Joey produce the art on this one. Rather than simply informing Don he's wrong, she couches it as asking if Don has decided (as if he knew it was Joey) to shift the work to Stan. Stan admits he's already spread thin, and Don moves on without having to admit he didn't know something by providing the "solution", bellowing for Miss Blankenship to get Joan into the office. As they wait for that, the others discuss Miss Blankenship's eyesight. Not Don though, now that they're not talking business he finds himself fixated once more on the booze, watching the others drink, Ken pouring more, their voices becoming muted and falling away into the background. He lifts his own glass, stares at the inviting liquid, and then takes a mild sip far different to his usual gulps. This time he takes his time, savoring the taste, letting it sit on his tongue, enjoying every moment as it falls down his throat. He doesn't take another, he hasn't stopped drinking entirely but he also knows if he doesn't keep an iron-grip on his consumption it will spiral out of control quickly. The others seem to fall off into the distance, all that exists in this moment for Don is himself and that chemical reaction of alcohol on his tongue... and then there is a knock on the door and he's snapped back to reality, putting his glass down as Joan Harris enters the office to ask what she can do for them. Don explains they need a redo on Mountain Dew, which means they'll need Joey to be full-time for a couple of weeks. Joan takes this in with her usual composure, but she's quick to ask if Don is sure Joey is the right person? The others, including Peggy, are confused: he did the first round, after all? "And now we're redoing it," notes Joan sweetly, and Ken chuckles it is more complicated than that. So Joan adapts on the fly, gently closing the door and agreeing she will do this, but she does need to make them aware of something... she's had some complaints about him. Peggy, who works with Joey a lot, is immediately suspicious of this, asking what the complaints were. Joan waves the details off as unimportant but admits one case was an "extremely" blue joke, and that he isn't a gentlemen with the ladies. She refuses to give any more details than that, and Don says she can tell him in private later but shrugs and says it's boys will be boys. Even now Joan doesn't surrender, simply agreeing with what Don has instructed her to do but declaring herself (not asking, not suggesting, TELLING one of the named Partners of the Agency) that she will also invite in books from other artists since there is already too much work to go around. She leaves, and it is only Peggy who seems to grasp there may be some connection with this and Joan's furious mood the previous day. Stan and Ken, who were there as well and presumably were told by Joey what he said afterwards, haven't got a clue, Stan in fact being more interested in seeing if he can guess what the extremely blue joke was. As he starts to recount what he thinks it was (this one guy had balls SOOOOO big....) Peggy cuts him off to ask if they're done, and Don agrees, and mercifully the meeting ends. Where is the subject of all this? Listening uneasily as Harry Crane peels an orange in his office and tries to sell Joey on his chances as an actor. Sitting in front of an autographed (and framed!) photo of Buddy Ebsen, Harry is explaining that he was on the set of Peyton Place and one of the guest actors was doing a terrible job. Harry immediately thought he knew who could play the young, handsome and slightly mischievous role, and a bewildered Joey asks if HARRY wants to get into acting. Of course not, he means Joey, and he makes the young man even more uncomfortable when he reveals he already showed them a picture of Joey, casually explaining he grabbed a Polaroid from the Christmas Party. Luckily for Joey, Harry's secretary buzzes in to let him know Peggy is looking for "Mr. Baird" and Joey makes a quick exit, shaking Harry's hand but making it clear he isn't interested. Harry shrugs, telling him he's too handsome not to be in television, and Joey escapes, telling a perplexed Peggy that "some old fairy" always comes on to him wherever he works but this was the weirdest play ever!   What is Harry up to? Certainly not trying to come on to Joey, that's for sure. He already tried this in a semi-roundabout way when he tried to get Don to meet an executive in California in an earlier episode: it seems like Harry is trying to make the move into show business himself. Not as an actor, but an Agent or a manager or a casting director or SOMETHING! He clearly is infatuated with film and television, and the aspects of his work he enjoys the most is certainly not dealing with clients and advertising. Harry is clearly looking at every opportunity he can get to try and impress or showcase he has abilities to people in show business so he can make the transition. After all, there's more room for growth there than at a small New York ad agency, plus it is so much more exciting and glamorous! In many ways, he's trying to do what he did at Sterling Cooper: make his own opportunities. Peggy doesn't care about that though ("Yes, everybody wants you, Joey," she offers sarcastically), what she cares about is that Joan Harris has it out for him. She wants to know what he did to get onto her bad side, because unlike him she knows that Joan Harris being against you is a bad sign for your continued employment. Joey is completely unfazed though, declaring that Joan is just an overblown secretary, and every Agency has a "Joan"... hell, his mother was a Joan who would wear a pen on a chain so people would stare at her tits. Peggy doesn't want to talk about Joey's mother's breasts though, she wants to hammer home a point the idiot doesn't seem to be grasping: Joan Harris is IMPORTANT, she and Lane are basically the people who run the Agency and they are not enemies you want to make. Finally, mercifully, it seems to filter through into Joey's head, as he sighs and tells her not to worry, he's gotten the message... at which point he sighs and ponders if he can get out of work yet. Peggy of course can't tell him that potential (if temporary) full-time work is at stake for him, but she's also not all that impressed at his lovely attitude herself. So she simply leaves, while Joey sighs some more at the unfairness of being held responsible for his actions. That evening at Barbetta restaurant, Henry and Betty Francis meet for dinner with a man named Ralph Stuben. Henry introduces Betty to Ralph who apologizes for calling them out, it seems they were out at the theater and Stuben's request for a meeting came up last minute. What for? Something to do with politics, Stuben works for a Congressman who asked him to speak with Henry personally, so presumably he's here to discuss hiring Henry to come and work for them. But as Henry talks up Betty's discretion and Stuben agrees it is the curse of a political wife, Betty's beaming smile drops as she spots somebody else is at the restaurant too: Don Draper. He hasn't spotted her, in fact he only has eyes for his date, a pretty young blonde. To Henry's obvious surprise, Betty suddenly speaks up to suggest they get a drink at the bar, and he finally spots Don and grasps what is going on. At Don's table, Bethany is having champagne poured, but Don quietly and without fuss declines the waiter's offer to pour him a glass too. Bethany makes small talk, asking if he is a Felix or an Oscar - presumably they have also been to the theater tonight, at a showing of The Odd Couple. Don admits that like most men he'd like to be an Oscar but suspects he's probably a Felix, and Bethany considers this before noting that this feels like a first date. By that she means they're still at the stage where you have to make small talk like this rather than the conversation flowing naturally, and she can't quite get her head around why their relationship isn't developing. She tells Don that she knows he must be seeing somebody else, and she doesn't mind him admitting it she just doesn't want him to lie about it. But what she can't deal with is the lengthy period between dates, they need prolonged and direct contact if they're going to build this up into anything further, and while they might be from different generations she wants him be in no doubt that she wants more from him than she is getting. Don, with the barest interjections, takes this all in with some astonishment, agreeing that they clearly are from different generations because he doesn't remember women being so forward. Still, he offers her some assurances. He really isn't seeing anybody else, he just works ALL THE TIME. They're on a date now, they're getting to know each other, and he's enjoying himself. So is she, though she points out that they don't need to be married for her to show him off at her country club: in other words, he doesn't have to dive in headfirst but she could use more than him occasionally dipping in a toe to test the waters. Unfortunately this happy and legitimately surprisingly frank (well, for Don at least) exchange is interrupted at the worst possible time as Don realizes a group of people have approached the table to see them. He looks up and there they are: Henry and Betty Francis and some stranger, standing over his table looking down at him. Forcing at least a neutral face Don shakes Henry's hand and makes the barest half-rise from his table before introducing them to "Miss Van Nuys". With that they've moved on, Don grimacing as an amused Bethany asks what THAT was all about? He doesn't beat about the bush: it's his ex-wife and her new husband, and "some slob who's about to have the worst dinner of his life". Bethany is enthralled though, asking in disbelief if Betty is really his ex-wife, eyes drinking in every detail of the other woman. One has to wonder if when she looks at the older (but still young) woman she sees.... herself. Blonde, high society, long hair done up high, their dresses of different fashions but also in roughly the same color. The food arrives and Bethany takes a moment, fixing her eyes on Don as he lights up a cigarette, considering what next step to take in what has become a minefield of a dinner. Betty also has her mind on other things, barely listening as Stuben explains to Henry that the meeting is officially only to thank him for getting Governor Rockefeller to endorse Congressman Lindsay in his bid for Mayor of New York. She can't take her eyes off of Don and Bethany who have seemingly put the awkwardness behind them and are now laughing and seemingly having a great time as they eat their meal. Don has his back to her of course, but if anything that just adds to the impression that he's dismissed/ignoring/indifferent to her presence. Stuben's official reason has been given, but unofficially he is willing to discuss that "hypothetically" Congressman Lindsay might be considering putting together a team to run for President in 1972... and that team would be built around Henry Francis at its core. Henry is immediately laser-focused: Lindsay is tall, handsome, liberal (comparatively) and young (politically speaking) and has the endorsement of Rockefeller, he COULD win and even if he doesn't that's a 7-year-job working at a high political level. Betty isn't listening to any of that, knocking back her drink in a single gulp. Henry turns and asks if she has decided what she wants to order, and she can barely blurt out that she needs to be excuses before shooting away from the table towards the restroom. Unsettled and suspecting the cause of her alarm, he plays it off with a joke to Stuben, saying she can't have more than one drink without getting flushed. Stuben chuckles that his wife has the opposite problem, either not noticing Betty's discomfort or discreet enoguh to pretend he hasn't. In the bathroom, Betty gets into a stall as fast as she can and sits down, gasping to control her breath. The attendant asks if she is okay and Betty grunts she is fine, even as she dries her armpits as she breaks out in a sweat. But the attendant doesn't go away, explaining she dropped her purse. Betty takes it from beneath the stall door and fumbles out a cigarette (they have ashtrays set right there on the wall of the stall beside the toilet!), lighting it up and trying desperately to calm her nerves. Despite being remarried and making frequent remarks about Don probably banging every single woman he sees now, seeing him having dinner with another woman (and particularly one with a passing resemblance to herself) has hit her far harder than she would have ever suspected.   The dinner eventually ends and Henry drives them home, and of course the night is far from over. She's in a bad mood but Henry is livid himself, in a way he rarely is with her. He complains it wouldn't have been right for him to jam her into a taxi and send her home without him, but he expected her to keep herself composed given the importance of the meeting for him even before he knew what was on offer. They snipe at each other, Betty complaining that he made her sit there and look at him, him complaining back that nobody made her look. He complains that she isn't allowed to say she NEEDS a drink because it makes her look like a wino (Jesus Christ take a loving chill pill, Henry) and Betty rightfully growls back that he doesn't get to tell her what she can and can't do, she was in a marriage like that before. He won't let her get away with taking it out on him though, pointing out that the fact is they are going to see Don from time to time, because New York (or rather, THEIR New York) is a small town. She spits out that she hates Don, which leads to a rather incredible line from Henry: "Hate's a strong word, I hate Nazis. I have an ex-wife, she bothers me." He refuses to back down when Betty, obviously tired, grunts that he should just let her hate him if she wants to, saying that when it impedes on his career it is too much. He's obviously enthralled with the idea of being on Lindsay's team, seeing in him perhaps the chance at the White House that Rockefeller missed. Don Draper doesn't get to have a say in whether that happens, and she let him by the way she acted tonight. But here is where his own temper takes things too far. Because Betty actually capitulates, agreeing that he is right and that Don doesn't matter, and Henry refuses to take the victory. Instead he complains that Don DOES matter, because she lets him take up too much space in her life... and perhaps her heart. Oh my God, Henry you loving idiot. "That's ridiculous!" she complains, and he takes a moment and then starts what sounds like an apology at first, until instead of saying maybe he went too far he says maybe... they rushed into this. Oh my God, Henry you loving rear end in a top hat. She's quite rightly pissed off at him for this, reminding him that she was six months pregnant when they first met, not going so far as to point out she was the one who kept pushing him away or trying to shut him down while he relentlessly pursued her. She demands to be let out of the car, actually trying to open the door as they drive, then decides he can drop her off at the house since HE is the one who doesn't want to live there (so they're still at the old house? Did they buy it?) and he can go live wherever he was when they met, at a hotel or in his mansion with his servants. She manages to put real contempt into "mansion" and "servants", even though she grew up in a giant house with a maid herself. Henry though just snaps at her to shut up, accusing her of being drunk before continuing to drive in silence. This is a far cry from the Henry/Betty relationship we've seen to this point, though they have had their downs to go with the many ups. Henry is particular is sharper with her than we've really seen, though to be fair this is the first time she has really (potentially) negatively affected his career. Betty meanwhile has seen her dreams of an equal partnership turn to ash: the dinner tonight was supposed to be an example of what she always wanted from Don, to work as a team to impress clients. She's more than capable of that, and when they first arrived at the restaurant she was clearly keen to be a part of everything. But then she saw Don, and everything fell apart, and what should have been a triumph for Henry that she shared in has become a strain on their marriage. And what about Don? Well nothing has changed from his marriage I guess because he's making out with a woman who isn't Betty! In the back of a cab with Bethany, they kiss passionately, Don able to enjoy it even more than usual since he's also not half-pickled with booze. Which means he also gets to appreciate when she breaks away, looks around with a devilish grin, then unbuckles his belt, reaches into his pants and then goes down on him. Thrilled, pleased and surprised, Don leans back in the seat and enjoys a blowjob from a pretty young socialite... as dates go, this isn't a bad way to end the night! Don's narration returns, over a shot of him sitting up in his apartment continuing to write in his journal. He's right abut Bethany, but not with moon-eyed love or to brag or (thankfully) to show contempt. Instead he considers her with a strange mixture of warmth and clinical detachment: she's a nice girl, and she wants him to know her better, but he feels like he already has a strong insight into who she is. He notes that people tell you who they are all the time but everybody tends to ignore it, because everybody wants somebody to be who THEY want to be. Does he lump himself in there with everybody else? Or does he just aim that "insight" onto others, like he does with Bethany as he considers how the taxi ride ended? After blowing him in the backseat, she leaves with some swagger telling him,"To be continued," a promise of potentially more to come which will hopefully make him ask her out for another date sooner than normal. Don watched her go, but he was considering at the time as he narrates now that she had clearly come up with that line and been waiting to use it all night, excited by her strategy of appealing to him and wanting to make it work. Demonstrating he is far from above such idle fantasizing himself, he considers the Barbizon Hotel and muses on all the women alone in their rooms tonight, touching themselves to sleep, before ordering the cabbie to take him to his own apartment. There we see him sleeping alone in bed, his narration informing us that it is something he enjoys: being able to stretch out, to roll into cold spots. He says he should appreciate it more, and that line creates a couple of potential interpretations. One is that his controlled drinking means he is actually able to acknowledge and remember these simple pleasures. The other is that he is perhaps gearing up to start getting more serious and perhaps start sharing a bed again, and enjoying this "freedom" while he can. Regardless of which, Don's journal keeping reveal something that the viewer should have picked up on a long time ago by now. For as smart and creative and talented as Don Draper is... he's also entitled, selfish and far too often looks down on people. Part of that may be because of his job, part may be because of the secret he carries around with him every day that nobody seems to suspect. Part of it may just be that this is the kind of guy he just naturally is. After all, he seems to have a genuine affection for Bethany, but she is right that his stringing her along on a date every few weeks or couple of months means that they haven't been able to deepen their relationship at all.  
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Jul 14, 2021 17:25
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The next morning at SCDP, Don steps out of the elevator and hears a raised voice even through the muffled space of the telephone booth. Unable to help eavesdropping, he moves past and then stops just out of sight to listen to the normally composed Dr. Faye Miller ranting at the person on the other end that she wants them out of her place. It seems like she's talking to a man, snarling that she's tired of his complaints about not cooking, of his shorts being left on the floor, and never letting her get a word in edgewise. Another couple of men arrive, presumably clients, and Don opens the doors for them to enter reception just as Miller roars,"GO poo poo IN THE OCEAN, DAVID!" and slams the phone down. At the Francis household, Betty has woken to see Henry already mostly dressed and ready to head out. She asks if he was going to leave without saying goodbye, and sternly he tells her he felt she needed the sleep. But now that the shock and follow-up rage has drained out of her, Betty is more than willing to apologize (she was last night too till he made it worse). She explains that she's just tired of defending herself all the time, and a little of Henry's usual cheerful amusement returns as he teasingly asks,"ALL the time?". She's being serious though, even though he appears to be willing to move on, telling her in a warmer tone to go back to sleep and explaining that Carla took the kids to school, she wants to explain herself. What she says probably isn't what Henry really wants to hear though, as she tries to explain her fixation on Don last night by reminding Henry that until him, Don was the only man she had EVER been with. He simply nods and walks away, and she falls back into the bed wondering if she just made things worse. Again. Henry seems composed enough as he goes to the garage and gets into his car. He seems composed as he looks up and spots the boxes marked Draper sitting in HIS garage. He seems composed as he very deliberately steps on the accelerator and lurches the car forward to jam into the boxes. He seems composed as he then calmly backs out of the garage, his petty revenge complete. At SCDP, Joey is giving a practical example of a Mountain Dew "cocktail" that he calls Jet Fuel, pouring in mostly Mountain Dew mixed with vodka. Peggy claims Rocket Fuel is better, but she does like the simplicity of the idea, once again pointing out hillbillies as part of their campaign idea.... why the hell do they want to associate Mountain Dew with hillbillies? Stan enters with another man who is wiping his hands clear of ink, noting that the Xerox machine is down again. He takes a sip of the Rocket Fuel, while Betty considers one flaw in this particular recipe.... there's only two ingredients, which makes it an "emergency", not a cocktail. She pauses as she spots Joan entering Lane's office, her own warning to Joey that these two essentially run SCDP surely not far from her mind: so what are they up to now? What Joan is doing is simply professionally passing on Don's request to put Joey on as full-time on Mountain Dew for the next 3 weeks. She may dislike him, and have done what she could to prod Don away from that decision or have alternatives, but she isn't going to ignore the directive or override it. For Lane's part, this is a matter of simple math: keeping Mountain Dew as a client brings them money, and the Creative side of SCDP is not his "business" so if Don feels 3 weeks at full-time for Joey gets them that money, then so-be-it. But Joan takes her victories where she can get them, so if she can't do anything about Joey, she will at least address the vending machine and the problems it is causing her. Shutting Lane's door, she takes a seat and tells him she thinks it will be a problem, which does surprise him. Again because it's just a matter of simple math for him: the vending machine is getting a lot of use, they're seeing a cut of that, and he was actually considering bringing in a sandwich machine! Joan's retort is that if he does that, they'll end up with a lot of fat secretaries (why this should matter is... well, it's 1965 I guess), but also there have been a lot of complaints. She's not lying about that, unlike her line about there being a lot of complaints about Joey. The machine eats coins, took Joey's watch, and she herself is pissed off about all the noise it has generated. Lane sighs, he doesn't want complaints, he just wants the money, and so he makes the same suggestion that Joan gave Joey: why don't those having a problem with it call the complaints number? As they discuss this utterly dull subject, in the Creative Lounge the others are pondering what Lane and Joan are doing in there, Stan muttering that it is an unholy alliance. Joey, of course, absolutely cannot resist, grabbing a pad of paper as he declares he knows EXACTLY what they're doing. Peggy, who of course is just trying to do her work for God's sake can we just get some work done!?! warns him not to, but he can't help himself eagerly descibing the "extremely blue" scenario that he's drawing. Wanting no part of it, Peggy stands and leaves, demanding they get her three cocktails with at least three ingredients in each they can put together as part of their new pitch. Stan watches her go, chuckling about her advancing the science of wet blanketry, and while Joey doesn't defend her he also doesn't join in on the mockery of THIS woman, instead laughing,"You love her." After all, she may be a stick in the mud, but Peggy is "one of them" as far as Joey is concerned, while Joan and Lane - as bosses/authority figures - are the enemy. Don is sitting in his office at his typewriter but staring out the window at nothing when Blankenship calls over the intercom to let him know Henry Francis is on the line. Confused why Henry would be calling, Don picks up, Henry in his own office informing him it's nothing dire but it is something that needs to be dealt with. Spinning a line of complete bullshit, he explains he has bought a boat he wants to keep in the garage, but he doesn't have the clearance with Don's boxes still in there. With a frown, Don acknowledges that of course this is something that has to be dealt with, declining Henry's offer to pay movers to put them into storage and taking the cost off the rent (so he's actually paying rent to Don to live in his old house, that must REALLY stick in his craw despite having Betty and the kids) and saying he'll pick them up himself. For a moment it seems like Henry is going to make a nice peace-offering, when he points out that Gene's birthday is on Sunday... except he follows that up with recommending they get it done on Saturday because of this. Pained, perhaps suspecting Henry has made this suggestion specifically to hurt him, Don agrees and says he'll be by at noon to do it. He hangs up, and finds himself staring at his liquor again. He checks his watch, and judges that drinking this early would absolutely NOT controlling his drinking. So he restrains himself, instead asking Miss Blankenship to please bring him coffee instead. In Joan's office, Peggy pops through the door with another complaint about the vending machine: it just ate up 30 cents without giving her food. 30 cents? How!?! Peggy explains she paid a nickel for lifesavers and didn't get any, and all she had left was a quarter and it ate that too. She reminds Joan that she started with exact change when Joan asks if the exact change light was on, and proclaims she will NOT call the complaints number because nobody ever answers. Joan can believe that, but Peggy's complaint that if she isn't getting her money she at least wants her lifesavers falls on deaf ears when Joan spots something pressed against the window of her office. It's a drawing of what is meant to be Lane (it looks more like a racist caricature of a Chinese man) leaning back in his chair as what is obviously meant to be Joan is on her knees giving him a blowjob. Peggy is shocked, but Joan simply stares with her normal poker face then quietly stands and leaves the room. Peggy chases after as Joan strides into the Creative Lounge and demands to know who drew the picture. Stan, Joey and the other copywriter are seated drinking their experimental cocktails (or just not bothering and drinking the "rocket fuel"), pretending at first not to know what she is talking about. A dangerous smile crossing her face, Joan notes how "brave" it is to do something like this anonymously, and Stan can't resist joking that it's brave to do what is in the drawing since that's still illegal in many states! Peggy stares in alarm, unable to believe the disrespect being carelessly thrown Joan's way, looking at the clearly upset Joan unsure how she will react. And how does she? Does she burst into tears? Start screaming? Get red in the face? Stomp her feet? No, instead she composes herself and with disturbing calmness explains something to them: she's looking forward to next year when they're all in Vietnam. Drawing on her own very real fears for her husband, she twists them into a cold, calculated gut-punch directly to the three single young men who are all at draft age: they will be pining for the days when someone was trying to make their lives easier, and when they're there in the jungle being shot at, she wants them to remember that they're not dying for her... because she never liked them. With that nuclear bomb delivered, she turns and calmly exits, smiling as she tells a worried Peggy that she isn't going home. The three men are left sitting stunned, their "joke" responded to by a reminder of the precarious nature of their lives and the reality of a war that they could be hauled into against their will in some country barely any of them had heard of a few years earlier. "Scorched earth..." mutters Stan, while Joey of all people softly questions what the hell is wrong with her. Peggy can't believe that, reminding them she warned them not to make the drawing. Seemingly almost offended themselves, they complain it was just a joke, while Peggy rips the drawing from the window and storms out herself, leaving them to sit and contemplate the devastation Joan just left in their wake.... Joey's mother probably never rocked him with anything quite like that before.   Don is sitting at his desk when Peggy comes in, explaining that Miss Blankenship was still trying to find the buzzer and she couldn't wait any longer. She hands Don the drawing, explaining it was drawn by Joey despite her telling him not to, and stuck on Joan's window which is disrespectful to Joan but also to her. Don considers the drawing, joking that he can't quite believe Joey did it since it shows awareness of forced perspective. Peggy is upset though, she wants something done about this and she can't believe that Don thinks this kind of thing is fine. He doesn't, he assures her with some frustration, even if his reaction indicates that he really doesn't see what the big deal is about a part-time junior artist openly mocking and undermining the authority of a vital, valued employee who is already facing an unfair uphill battle for respect purely because of her gender. But where he catches her by surprise is when he tells her to just go and fire him if it is a problem. Her? Fire him? Isn't that what she wants, he asks, and when she admits she just thought Don would go out and yell at him, Don shrugs and says she can go out and yell at him if she wants, or fire him, or do whatever she thinks is appropriate. It isn't something she has considered before, but she is the senior copywriter, even if as Art Director she is technically outranked by Stan: if she wants somebody fired, Don has given her the authority to fire them. More to the point, he probably correctly points out that if HE is the one to do it - whether firing or yelling - it will only make her look bad, because instead of gaining the respect/fear of the others she will simply look like a tattletale. Dr. Miller arrives (announced by Miss Blankenship, who found the buzzer at last) as Don tells Peggy to go out and earn the respect she wants. Faye is a little off-balance, asking if she should come back, but Peggy makes her exit, having gotten far more than what she was expecting from this brief meeting. Faye asks if everything is okay and, screwing up the "art" and tossing it away, Don assures her it is. Ironically, Joan's brutalization of the three jokers has gotten them off their rear end and doing some work when Peggy arrives back in the Creative Lounge. They're experimenting with more Mountain Dew "cocktails" when Peggy asks to speak to Joey, curtly telling him,"No," when he offers her one of the drinks. She leads him away, Joey looking more irritated than anything, while Stan and the other copywriter watch them go with a mixture of apprehension and - from Stan at least - consternation. In Peggy's office, Joey opens immediately with an apology to Peggy, acknowledging at least that he should have listened to her. Peggy is happy to hear it... but she doesn't want an apology, she wants him to give Joan one. That he immediately balks at, not because of any animosity towards her but because doing so would be an admission of guilt that HE drew the picture. "You DID do it!" she reminds him, as well as that she told him not to. Now he's once again got the temerity to act like HE is the offended party, complaining that the art was funny. She asks him if he'd be willing to show it to Lane and he insists Lane would laugh (that seems unlikely), so she asks if he would also think it was funny if it was Don who was giving him the blowjob? Incredibly, unbelievably, Joey complains that this is why he doesn't like working with women, "You have no sense of humor." A stunned Peggy cannot believe it, the utter cluelessness of this idiot who she for the most part likes! The complete unwillingness to accept blame, the doubling-down in spite of being told over and over again not to do something and then complaining when the inevitable consequences of his actions arrive. She stares at him in disbelief, and she comes to a decision: he's fired. Even now Joey doesn't take things seriously, openly joking that he can see her nostrils are flared so sure sure he'll do her a big favor and go "apologize". But she's had it, he's crossed the line and she isn't putting up with it anymore, and she orders him to pack up his things and get out. NOW he is serious, but even now he's not taking her seriously, instead getting hard-faced and declaring they'll just have to see what Don says about this, and she offers back yet another gut-punch (even if it is a lie): Don doesn't even know who he is. Reality is finally setting in, his Adam's apple bobbing as realization creeps over him that this isn't a joke, he's fired. She's fired him. She mutters that she's sorry it didn't work out and goes to get the door for him, an unsubtle declaration that the discussion is over, but he grabs her by the shoulder, trying to figure out what to say. What he gets back is the half-irritated look of somebody who isn't happy about what she's done but also isn't going to change her mind, as she tells him it's just a job and he'll get another one. So of course, further demonstrating just how childish he is, he sneers that he was wrong about her (the fallback defense of all those who refuse to accept that they're not being funny, they're just being an rear end in a top hat) and pointedly dumps out a box of files on the floor to use to collect his things. Shortly after that he marches back to the Creative Lounge, loudly declaring to the others (joined by Harry to test one of their concoctions) that "fun's over". He shakes Stan's hand and explains "a little bug bit me" then marches out, not answering Harry's assurance they'll have a drink together some time. Peggy walks up to the door and without preamble instructs (not asks, not suggests, TELLS) Stan to put Vick Chemical on the back-burner and take the lead on Mountain Dew. She leaves without another word. "Power of the poontang," sighs Stan, the supposedly enlightened male who values people who are confident in themselves. Here's the thing, by the way. They all liked each other, Peggy and Joey in particular got on well, but Joey took it too far. Making the drawing at all was stupid but even then things might have been fine if he'd just kept it among the others, even in spite of Peggy warning him not to make it. When Don saw the picture he cracked a joke, and hell people often sit around and crack jokes at the expense of bosses or co-workers, including people they are friends with or just like in general. That all goes on every day around the world and has done for as long as anybody can remember. So what's the difference here? Beyond that he literally drew the thing they were joking about, he also HAD to rub it in everybody's faces, he HAD to make sure it was put on display where Joan could see it to mock and humiliate her. He took it too far, then refused to back down or accept any blame at all, openly insulted people above him in the work hierarchy, and created a situation where he couldn't stay. Peggy didn't want to fire him, when Don told her to do it she was shocked. It wasn't until she got Joey into a one-on-one situation and he continued to double-down that she'd had enough, and it all could have been avoided at multiple steps along the way. Not an uncommon occurrence for characters in this show, hell just look at Don's marital status as an example of what happens when you gently caress around and find out.  In Don's office he and Faye are going through research from her focus groups on Fillmore Autoparts, and he is warning her that alot people are not going to want to take advice on what autoparts to buy. Faye thinks he means advice from a woman, but he explains he means from anybody that the person feels they know more than. Casually, without thinking, he drops in that he used to sell cars so he knows this is how people think. Just like Peggy, Faye doesn't grasp the significant tidbit of back history that Don just openly put out there, even if the significance would only be to Don himself. Admitting he is bored and hungry, he asks if she wants to get something to eat. She asks if he means order in, and he looks her up and down and says she seems dressed up, they could take the research with them. Faye is no fool though, asking Don if he is asking her to have dinner with him. Making sure to maintain direct eye contact, turning his body so they face to face on the couch, he agrees that he is. She points out that he asked her out once before when she first started working with SCDP and she told him no, so what makes him think now will be any different? The timing just seemed right, he shrugs, and though she didn't see him during her screaming display in the phone booth in the morning, she must surely suspect he overheard because the timing is far too convenient. But.... she is single now, and he is handsome and charming (and not drunk!) so she makes a compromise offer: if he thinks the timing is right, he can ask her out to an actual proper date sometime in the future rather than tacking it on to a work meeting like an afterthought. Amused, he agrees he can do that, and asks if Saturday night is enough notice (and also provides him a palate cleanser from the unpleasantness of picking up his boxes from his old home), and she admits that normally it wouldn't be but he's in luck this week. So it's a date, and with some satisfaction from both they close the meeting, Faye taking her research and going, Don feeling like he's accomplished something. Whether he even thinks once about Bethany in all of this is unclear. Another blonde who he does his best not to think about is making preparations for the Sunday party at home when Francine comes calling. She's brought Betty a bowl she had borrowed plus one of her own to help out, Betty admitting that Henry was supposed to pick one up on the way home but is too busy. Francine, always keen to gush over Betty's husband even if that husband has changed, remarks on how ambitious Henry is, and is fascinated when Betty admits Henry is mad at her. She doesn't explain why when Francine asks, simply sighing that she's just trying to get through this party, and Francine reminds her that she'll have help, plus you know... it's a 2-year-old's party, nobody is ultimately going to care or remember how it went, just that they had it. But then she gasps as she thinks about what might be causing the stress, is.... HE.... coming? Betty explains she told him about it and is now hoping he won't show up and "ruin" it, complaining bitterly about running into him in the city on a "date", sneering that Bethany Van Nuys was all of 15-years-old.... then admitting that she "misbehaved" and Henry doesn't understand for some reason. Francine, who was forever gushing over Don not so long ago, tells Betty not to let him bother her, admitting that sometimes they see him walking around with the kids on weekends and Carlton - an utterly pathetic creep himself - calls Don "that sad bastard." "That's an act!" complains Betty, with perhaps a bit more fire than she intended. She bitches that he's "living the life" and doesn't "get" to have the family AND that too. Francine is a little taken aback, and simply observes that Betty has bad luck when it comes to entertaining guests. But as she helps cut up vegetables, she makes an observation that gives Betty pause: she should be careful, because Don has nothing to lose, but Betty herself has EVERYTHING. Joan is leaving work for the evening, joined in the elevator by Peggy. Unable to help herself, Peggy asks if Joan heard that she fired Joey, and Joan offers back,"Good for you" with a restrained smile that doesn't exactly appear to be a glowing endorsement of the action. A confused Peggy doesn't know what she means by that, and with that same dangerous sweetness Joan points out that now everybody in the office will know that Peggy "solved my problem", and thus she must be really important. Peggy is baffled, why is she upset that she defended her? "You defended yourself," Joan offers back, and when Peggy reminds her how disgusting the drawing was, Joan agrees but notes she had already handled that herself (and with gusto!) and that if she wanted to go any further than that a simple dinner with Mr. Kreutzer from Sugarberry Ham (the main bulk of Joey's work) would have put paid to Joey and removed him as a problem. So if the end result was Joey being gone, then what is the difference who got rid of him, Peggy asks. "You wanted to be a big shot," observes Joan, a hard little smile on her face and an almost pitying contempt in her eyes, reminding the woman who started as a simple secretary that men can always undercut their achievements with just a simple crude drawing. All Peggy has done is prove to "them" that Joan is a meaningless secretary, and Peggy is just another humorless bitch. The elevator reaches the floor and seemingly without malice Joan tells her to have a nice weekend and walks out, leaving a stunned Peggy behind. Who is right here? Don told Peggy to go out and get respect by earning it, taking charge and making a decision. Joan told her that she's gained ultimately empty power at the cost of alienating others. She certainly lost a friend in Joey, but was Joey a friend worth having? Stan cracked a sexist joke about "poontang"... but he also made sure to wait till she was gone before he did it, and he didn't question or kick back against her instruction to take the lead on Mountain Dew. The answer is neither is right, at least not entirely. Don gives Peggy advice he would give a man in a similar position, which is in some ways laudable but ignores very real gender dynamics of 1965 New York. Joan offers a take based on her experience as a woman in the industry, but it is experience from the 1950s, and 1965 already feels like a decade+ removed from 1960. Peggy finds herself caught between, with the unfair complication that everything she does gets questioned or second-guessed simply because she's a woman.   Don narrates again, writing in his journal. Pointedly, this time what he writes does NOT match what we see happened on that Saturday. As Don muses on how a man brings his whole life with him when he walks into a room, and waxes poetic about the things he believed and did, his triumphs and the mistakes he made etc, we see Don Draper experiencing the loss of that same life. In a way it's another example of what Don does for a living, crafting a pitch to draw the audience in even if the reality doesn't match up to the pretty words. Because as Don writes, we see him arriving at what was once HIS home. There he finds HIS things stacked up on the sidewalk in front of the lawn. He doesn't even have the courtesy into being allowed into what was once HIS garage. What used to be HIS lawns are being mowed by Henry, who has clearly very deliberately chosen to be out on that front lawn doing this domestic task which is the province of the "man of the house", which Don very much no longer is. Henry doesn't acknowledge him, pretends not to even see him even when Don gets out and offers a general "hey" look his way. It's a power play and an obvious one, but this is not Don's domain anymore, even if he does own the house and Henry pays rent, and especially with Gene's birthday the next day now is not the time to make a scene. So Don collects his things and drives away, still going unacknowledged by Henry, except the moment Don is gone he returns inside, removing his sweaty shirt and passing by Betty without a word as she ices the cake for the party. Did she even know Don was there, that his things have been removed from the house? This sad little power-play by Henry was to the benefit of nobody, certainly he doesn't seem any happier for it. As for Don? He drives these things to a dumpster and jams them in without a second thought. They're not things that matter to him anymore, he only took them because Henry reminded him of them, but he just went through this pointless exercise for no gain either. But with that unpleasantness behind, Don dresses up, allows himself a drink of whiskey, then joins Faye at outdoor dining at a restaurant for their anticipated date. She comments on the smell of chlorine on him, liking it, and he explains he has started swimming. With that same smooth delivery as his talk of a man's life, he tells her about how it is an effort to get into the water, but then you're weightless and don't sweat despite your exertion, and when you're done you are wrung out. It has helped him clear his head, admitting he has been "a little out of sorts lately", a diplomatic way of saying he's been a pathetic drunken mess. Moving to safer ground, she appreciates the restaurant and he points out it was difficult to get reservations. She jokes she could have arranged that if needed, explaining that many people who provide supplies to restaurants know her father, causing Don to guess he might be.... he isn't sure how to say "mobbed up" politely so brushes the side of his nose. Faye laughs at that, explaining he simply owns a candy store, but there are certain "responsibilities" that come with that, implying heavily that he does have to work with/have relations with the mob but it does come with some advantages. Don is fascinated, asking what her father is like, and with a smile she says he's a lot like Don... a two-bit gangster. This amuses him too, and they hit a natural break in the conversation when the waiter arrives. Don orders two glasses of Chianti (he doesn't ask her if that is what she wants, or give her the chance to order, but then it is 1965 I guess) and she offers her own advice to Don about how she clears her head when she is out of sorts. She simply looks at a calendar, because there is usually something significant on the horizon. He seems intrigued by the simplicity of the idea, admitting he has never considered this before. It does however make him consider the next significant date, which is tomorrow, and little Gene's 2nd birthday, which he is not invited to. Why not, she asks, and he explains - as was made evident today by Henry - that he isn't welcome there. Still, maybe it's for the best, Henry is the only father that Gene has ever really known. Faye can't answer if that is for the best or not, but points out that all Gene will know of the world is what you show him. The Chianti arrives and they both take a sip, Faye commenting on how good it is while Don simply savors once again the precious taste of alcohol on his tongue and lips. Again the natural break proves a smooth point to shift the conversation, and he offers a non-apology apology that though he may not have always shown it, he does respect her work. He then cheapens it somewhat by asking for a trade secret, so she recounts the old fable of the wind and sun competing to make a man remove his coat. The sun won, of course, by simply making it hot so that the man voluntarily removed his coat, and she says the moral is that kindness, gentleness and persuasion win where force fails. Of course Don knows all this, he's an ad man, but he also knows an opportunity when he sees one, joking that Faye is just trying to tell him she wants his coat, and then getting up and removing it and putting it on her shoulders. It's fun and a joke, but also intimate and appealing. She knows the basics of advertising, and he knows the basics of psychology, and some would say they're the same thing.   Dinner over, they climb into a taxi and Don gives her address to the driver. They sit in silence for a few moments, looking at each other, and then leans forward, careful to move in stages, giving her the opportunity to pull away and decline. She doesn't, and they kiss, only breaking away so she can ask where his place is. He tells her, but also that the taxi is only taking her as far as her place. This surprises her and she asks why, and he explains that it is as far as he can allow himself to go tonight. Further surprised by his restraint, she kisses him again, finding him more appealing than ever if only because he isn't acting the way she assumed he would. One wonders if HE practiced that line like he suspects Bethany practiced hers. Plus, of course, after promising Bethany he wasn't seeing somebody else (technically true at the time, it was just a series of one night stands) and letting Bethany give him a blowjob, here he is pursuing yet another woman. This one isn't from high society, and she's highly educated and independent... but it's yet another blonde who is trying to get into his head and understand what makes him tick. Sunday morning he wakes alone in his bed, stretched out just like he enjoys. He sits up and ponders the empty room and bed for a time, then hauls himself to the New York Athletic Club. There he swims, but this time rather than allowing himself to be weightless and wring himself out, he finds himself forcing a faster pace as he notices a younger, stronger man catching up to him in a neighboring lane. He pushes himself to his limits and "beats" the other man, glaring at him as the younger man casts him an irritated look and sets off back down to the other side. Don "won", but he's panting heavily, this rather pathetic display of machismo all he could really muster for no obvious benefit besides his own ego. At the Francis household, the older kids are playing musical chairs, Sally helping Gene and a similarly aged girl (Francine's?) play with blocks. The adults stand around chatting, things are quiet and calm... and then Don Draper walks through the door. Carrying a large plush elephant under his arm, he greets Francine who offers a nervous,"Don..." back, while Bobby spots his father and calls out a happy,"Daddy!" Sally looks up and offers a timid smile and a little wave, and in the corner Betty.... is completely unfazed? "What is he doing here?" grumbles Henry, who probably thought his pathetic little power-play had "shown" Don for good he wasn't welcome. But Betty simply, calmly promises him it is okay, scoops up little Gene and brings him over to Don, handing him over and telling Gene to say hi to daddy. Don happily takes his son and lifts him, and Betty simply turns and walks away with a blank face, seemingly unbothered. Did she invite Don? Or did he show up unannounced and she simply took Francine's advice to heart and decided not to let it bother her? Whatever the case, everybody is happy. Sally and Bobby are glad he's there, Gene is two and doesn't have a loving clue what is going on, Don is thrilled to see his youngest on this day, and Henry of course is impressed with his wife for showing the detachment from this old part of her life he has wanted. "We have everything," she explains to Henry, echoing Francine, and gives him a kiss. Pleased, he kisses her back, and Francine joins them as they fall into a natural, quiet conversation while the party continues on. Don doesn't pay them any mind either, he's here to see his son and only has eyes for him, holding him up, kissing him, wishing him happy birthday, full of joy. Henry turns to the man he was talking with and resumes his conversation, satisfied that all is well. Francine smokes, relieved at the lack of fireworks. The kids play, only Sally perhaps aware there was any chance things might have gone horribly wrong. And Betty Francis? The moment Henry turns away, she once again finds herself unable to take her eyes of her former husband. Once again he doesn't seem aware she exists, and once again she finds herself fascinated, revolted, angry and.... missing him? Don has nothing and she has everything.... and maybe it's not enough?   Episode Index
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Jul 14, 2021 17:25
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I really didn't like this episode on first viewing. After an absolute powerhouse episode like "The Suitcase," opening the very next installment with direct "I'm Don Draper, and this is how I feel right now on June 15, 1965" voiceover seemed like a major regression. Time has mellowed my opinion; I think the "Don attempts to move forward in his personal life" storyline has some clunky beats and I still don't love the narration, though it's not as bad as I remember it. Peggy and Joan's story, though, is fantastic and does a great job of depicting how these two women have to navigate office politics and define their roles within the workplace. (Joan using the vending machine as a proxy to express her frustrations about the big "problem" in the office to Lane is great, as is the final Peggy and Joan exchange in the elevator.) All in all, it's impossible for me to really be down on the episode, because "Mountain Dew and vodka is an emergency" is a phrase that's knocking around in my head for a decade at this point.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:16
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I think with the Joey firing, Joan's internalised sexism is working against her. Her usual reprimands and politicking around the office usually work, and would have worked if it was Stan who had hosed up, but Joey shows himself off to be an actual hardcore sexist in this episode. Since everyone is sexist by default in this show, it didn't stick out until he was challenged on it and where someone like Stan, or really most of the guys around the office, would either feel guilty or scared enough to simply apologise and back down, Joey has a deep issue with women. Everything he says in this episode just adds another facet to that - his assumption that people are coming on to him all the time because of his looks, his comment about his mother being 'a Joan', thinking women dressing attractively is signalling their openness to being assaulted, etc. It's not just ambient cultural sexism with him, there's a whole festering pile when you turn over the stone with him. So Joan is just reacting to this like she normally would because it would normally work, but it wouldn't have here and even though yeah it makes Joan and Peggy maybe look a bit worse to the guys, it's probably a hit worth taking in the short term just to send this message that there is a line, and also to get Joey the gently caress out of there so they don't have to deal with him anymore. Peggy made the right decision when it was clear Joey wasn't going to even consider that he was wrong. Despite her being really capable in her domain, Joan's also often really wrong about things and lashes out at the wrong people all the time. I like that about her characterisation because it would have been easy to make her a saint in the face of the bullshit she has to put up with, but she's not. She's learned how to survive in this environment and puts that above everything else, because she's lost sight of anything better. Part of it is also that Joan tried to get Joey fired her way, and it didn't work. She's got some hard limits on what she can do to curate her environment. Peggy doesn't - at least, not the same ones, because Peggy's moved into a different world. They really don't have very much in common at all by this point, even while Peggy still wants to be her friend and ally, Joan's got some resentment about that. Her life doesn't seem to be getting any better.
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Jul 14, 2021 18:48
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Jerusalem posted:why the hell do they want to associate Mountain Dew with hillbillies? Assuming this wasn't a joke question, "mountain dew" was slang for moonshine and/or scotch whiskey (originally Scotch, but the Scots brought the term to Appalachia where it was applied to moonshine) and the soda was invented as a mixer for whiskey. The original mascot was "Willy the Hillbilly".
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Jul 14, 2021 20:03
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I was going to post a screencap of the literal elephant in the room at Gene's party, but for some reason SA doesn't like me sharing images today ...
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Jul 14, 2021 20:36
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Regarding the scene in the car with Henry and Betty, I think I give Henry more rope than Jerusalem here. He just got told he's going to be a key member of Lindsay's presidential bid, so his emotions are certain to be at a high level of intensity on the drive back (good or bad). He's also probably feeling incredibly emasculated, both by his wife becoming preoccupied with her ex and from living in a household that isn't his (implicitly at Betty's request for the kids' sake). This is not to say he isn't being a petty rear end in a top hat nor to justify his behavior, but you can see where he's coming from. It's not like this is part of a pattern of abuse; for the most part, his relationship with Betty thus far has been mercifully healthy (as far as a relationship in 60s America can be). It's a far cry from the way Don treated her, at least. And, as much of a petty jerk as Henry acts in this episode, you can't deny that "I hate Nazis!" would make a great campaign slogan. Unrelated, quote:Demonstrating he is far from above such idle fantasizing himself, he considers the Barbizon Hotel and muses on all the women alone in their rooms tonight, touching themselves to sleep, before ordering the cabbie to take him to his own apartment. this was a huge  from me the first time I heard it
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Jul 14, 2021 20:49
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I remember when Joan has her big conflict in the last few episodes, a reviewer saying that because Joan is more traditionally femine than Peggy and did originally want the marriage housewife end game she has a harder time navigating sexism problems than Peggy. Like Joan understand times are changing but because she was surviving in her old role so well, she doesn't have various degrees of dealing with the problem. I think this episode is starting to foreshadow that. Joan's survival tactic might have worked in a 50's early 60s office, but Peggy is the one who got rid of Joey. And she is the one who got Stan in line earlier. Joan's politicking is gonna be less and less effective.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:44
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Peggy's only mistake was not talking to Joan first. It did make Joan look weak for Peggy to make that decision unilaterally. But the level of insubordination and misogyny from Joey was nuts. He had to go immediately. Can't not fire that guy just because someone will call you a humorless bitch. He HAD to go.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:14
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I'm wary of simply seeing Joan as a victim who cannot adapt rather than someone who has constructed their own power network - as a response to and defensive tool against patriarchy - who is now threatened by creation of a formalized organizational structure and the advance of human resources-style management. Joan's role as "Head Secretary" is vastly more than the description, she essentially functions as Director of Personnel and Assistant CFO for an up-and-coming multi-million dollar ad agency. She's done all that, despite the patriarchal society she lives in, by creating a network of soft power that gives her abilities and strengths beyond those in formal processes. She can't fire anyone (except secretaries) but she suggests she could have gotten rid of Joey if she wanted to. Even among the men, Sterling Cooper was run through nepotism and informal power to some extent. Peggy's dressing down and ultimate firing of Joey after the generous offer that he need only apologize details the approach of modern HR and personnel management which would formalize how managers and employees relate to each other. Managers often resist these efforts, but it especially threatens Joan, who lacks an actual, formal role or position in the organization that fits her outsize influence.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:38
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The Klowner posted:Regarding the scene in the car with Henry and Betty, I think I give Henry more rope than Jerusalem here. He just got told he's going to be a key member of Lindsay's presidential bid, so his emotions are certain to be at a high level of intensity on the drive back (good or bad). He's also probably feeling incredibly emasculated, both by his wife becoming preoccupied with her ex and from living in a household that isn't his (implicitly at Betty's request for the kids' sake). This is not to say he isn't being a petty rear end in a top hat nor to justify his behavior, but you can see where he's coming from. It's not like this is part of a pattern of abuse; for the most part, his relationship with Betty thus far has been mercifully healthy (as far as a relationship in 60s America can be). It's a far cry from the way Don treated her, at least. You could say in politics, the husband/wife "duo" when you are hob-nobbing is even more important than in business. This is Henry's first invitation into the big leagues of D.C...and he felt like it blew up because Betty wouldn't stop looking at Don. I mean, we all know that the political styling of Henry (a literal Rockefeller Republican) don't really exist anymore, but they were the heads of the party back then. After the disaster of Goldwater, they were looking for a comeback.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:23
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Yoshi Wins posted:Peggy's only mistake was not talking to Joan first. It did make Joan look weak for Peggy to make that decision unilaterally. But the level of insubordination and misogyny from Joey was nuts. He had to go immediately. Can't not fire that guy just because someone will call you a humorless bitch. He HAD to go. When I first saw this episode, I felt very strongly that Peggy did nothing wrong and Joan's outrage was coming from an internalized sexist place, but I've mellowed on that opinion. Peggy was still definitely right to fire him: Joey was a piece of poo poo, and genuinely misogynist in a way the company couldn't reconcile. (Seriously, all the poo poo about his mom...seek loving therapy, Joey.) But I think Joan's outlook comes from a pretty rational place, certainly in 1965 and to some degree today. There are these little islands where women in suitably powerful positions can target lovely men head-on and succeed, but more often than not they're still appealing to an authority that is regressive and male. Somehow, Bill Cosby is out of jail and Brett Kavanaugh is on the Supreme Court. Because the people and institutions that actually decided on their fates respected the perpetrators more than they valued their victims. Peggy's decision got immediate results. But longterm, Joey is just going to go to a different firm, his career barely stalled. "Oh, hilarious story, I pissed off the wrong crazy bitch."
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Jul 15, 2021 00:34
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It's really fascinating seeing the switch around from the start of the season where Don was a pathetic drunken mess and Joey was the fresh-faced new guy adapting easily to this new office environment and looking down on his Creative Director, and to this point where Don appears to be (comparatively) putting his life back in order while Joey is revealed to be a far worse and more entrenched in his views piece of poo poo. His line about not being a janitor from the previous episode really stands out stronger in light of this episode.Devorum posted:Assuming this wasn't a joke question, "mountain dew" was slang for moonshine and/or scotch whiskey (originally Scotch, but the Scots brought the term to Appalachia where it was applied to moonshine) and the soda was invented as a mixer for whiskey. Well I'll be, I literally had no idea about this, it's a hole in my pop culture knowledge for sure, and the idea of Mountain Drew as a mixer blows my mind. I thought they were just coming up with these ideas as part of a wider campaign to showcase different ways of thinking about the product in order to impress Pepsi, not that they were literally running with the original purpose of the product. Devorum posted:The original mascot was "Willy the Hillbilly". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyu4Tpoq8hc Suddenly their idea of brewing up Mountain Dew in a cauldron makes perfect sense!
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Jul 15, 2021 00:45
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Didn't you ever see the cans with the hillbilly on it when they brought mountain dew throwback out?
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Jul 15, 2021 00:46
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Xealot posted:Peggy's decision got immediate results. But longterm, Joey is just going to go to a different firm, his career barely stalled. "Oh, hilarious story, I pissed off the wrong crazy bitch." Right. We've sort of evolved from a society where women can't become important or powerful in business to a society where they can, but they'll be called bitches.
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Jul 15, 2021 00:50
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Gaius Marius posted:Didn't you ever see the cans with the hillbilly on it when they brought mountain dew throwback out? Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew  On a slight tangent, does anybody else get weirded out by the beer cans of that period having a pull tab that just comes right off?
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Jul 15, 2021 01:13
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Jerusalem posted:Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew I do, holy poo poo. How could you walk on a beach barefoot knowing that existed.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:28
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Jerusalem posted:Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew Cheers to the art department for figuring out how to make old cans.
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Jul 15, 2021 01:36
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Jerusalem posted:Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew I'm from relatively near where it was invented. Like, my grandpa's cousin knew the brothers or something like that. As for the tabs...I prefer them. A lot of the rest of the world still uses them. GoutPatrol posted:Cheers to the art department for figuring out how to make old cans. They may have just ordered them from overseas plants and painted them.
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Jul 15, 2021 03:38
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Jerusalem posted:It's really fascinating seeing the switch around from the start of the season where Don was a pathetic drunken mess and Joey was the fresh-faced new guy adapting easily to this new office environment and looking down on his Creative Director, and to this point where Don appears to be (comparatively) putting his life back in order while Joey is revealed to be a far worse and more entrenched in his views piece of poo poo. His line about not being a janitor from the previous episode really stands out stronger in light of this episode. "mountain dew" is an old bluegrass standard, compare the tune in that ad with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkoIKMcFAX8
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Jul 15, 2021 07:13
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Jerusalem posted:Nope, but I also very rarely drink Mountain Dew According to Wikipedia, in the UK at least, they stopped using them for soft drinks in 1989 and beer in 1990. As someone born in 1971, you’re all making me feel very old that you don’t remember these 
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Jul 15, 2021 09:49
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As an American millennial I don't think I've ever seen a pop-top can, though I do remember the era before the "Wide-Mouth Slam Can" hyped by Mountain Dew (Or was it Surge?) became the industry standard
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Jul 15, 2021 15:57
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The scene between Joan and Peggy always made me a bit sad too, because I thought it was clear that Peggy fired Joey because of how he talked to Peggy, not Joan. So Peggy goes to talk to him and generally act a lot more in line with how Joan seems like she would have wanted (albeit still undercutting her authority), but he wasn't going to get fired. During that talk, Joey says a bunch of poo poo that definitely gets him fired. Then Joan attacks Peggy for firing Joey because of what Joey did to Joan, which simply isn't what happened. Which makes Peggy feel bad and undermined when firing Joey for how he talked to her was 100% the right thing to do even by 1969s standards.
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Jul 15, 2021 19:40
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