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text editor posted:yeah I got introduced to those vids here and I really liked his vids in those gaming influencer serial pump and dumpers. also caught from the last vid they are/were heavily utilizing Binance's "coin" to move funds into/ out of these scams and pay off each other I just finished that FaZe series, yeah that was really interesting. It's not like i had any work to do today.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:21
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Collateral Damage posted:A cryptographically signed immutable ledger could be a useful tool. There are better ways of achieving that than using blockchains though. At this point Oracle now has a "blockchain" table in its latest database release which uses the same type of cryptographic signing to verify all the data and make it immutable. So at this point that leaves the distributed aspect as the only remaining unique feature for actual blockchains.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:32
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I mean, Github exists, if we're all about cryptographically signing entries.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:40
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DerekSmartymans posted:
It sort of does: the UUCP email network common in the 1980s. This is when we didn't have DNS, so instead of sending email to bob@example.com, you'd need to map out the complete path to bob by hand, e.g. somemachine!ucbvax!kremlin!thefrigginmoon!portal!well!example!bob - "bang-path" email. The network was basically a random mesh of machines with variably usable phone-line connections - sometimes a TrailBlazer modem running at a blistering 19,200 bits per second. If you were in Australia, all your messages were flown over weekly from the US on a tape. The world's most motivated computer scientists and timewasting students could not solve the mathematical problem of random-point-A to random-point-B in a mesh. The closest solution was a monthly map of the whole UUCP network, so you could work out your email paths. It sucked rear end stupendously. The second that DNS and SMTP were in place, everyone moved to that, because gently caress UUCP. Anyway, that's the particular very dumb and bad idea that LN thought would be a simple matter of programming, even tho it would literally require new mathematics.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:09
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Juul-Whip posted:it's a good point someone made earlier that if buttcoin will usher in a new era of universal economic fairness and an end to inequality, then there's no need to invest early, as even the latest adopter will be blessed by it, equally as much as the early adopters. Right??? so really, the best strategy is to be a nocoiner until such time as that happens I mean, this is explicitly spelled out in the drat bible. quote:20 For the kingdom of Satoshi is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:10
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A penny is pretty cheap for a days work. *That's the King James version. American Standard Version says shilling and the original said Denarius, which was a day's wage.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:34
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divabot posted:Anyway, that's the particular very dumb and bad idea that LN thought would be a simple matter of programming, even tho it would literally require new mathematics.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:45
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zedprime posted:I'd use the opposite mathematic logic if I were them. We can't program a fix to the travelling salesman to automatically get an equitable lightning network with minimum captured capital. But the free market has been self solving travel through meshes for time immemorial and you can't mathematically prove that it isn't an efficient solution so might as well call it problem solved. so punting it == problem solved
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Jul 29, 2021 15:58
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It's in the wiki, it's already as good as complete
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Jul 29, 2021 16:00
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DerekSmartymans posted:I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Look up (I don’t have a link because it was a couple of years ago) the Lightning Network. Not its claims, not its number of transactions, but the actual systems it “works” with. Please. If you believe in the laffchain at all, please look it up. The whole “coiin is a battery” poo poo is just wishful thinking, and any 6 y/o economics student (first graders learning about money) will tell you it’s silly and doesn’t work like that. That's slightly incorrect. If you just had to establish contract with every entity and prepay them, there would be no need for a network, you could just communicate directly with the entities you're paying. No, the network part comes in when you don't have a contract with someone and the network has to find a way to "forward" your payment to them via others that do have a contract with the entity. And that is where the "let's just assume P=NP" thing comes in, and routing in that kind of network is just hand waved away. There's also the fact that if you have a contract with someone, your client has to be online 24/7 just so that if the other party tries to prematurely close the channel and steal your money, you can go "nuh uh" and contest the closure. So if your computer is down for half a day, better hope that Starbucks or whatever doesn't feel like emptying your account.
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Jul 29, 2021 16:07
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) matter between you and Walmart. 
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wouldn’t lightning network just inevitably lead to Visa and Mastercard-like networks (but worse in all ways, of course)
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Jul 29, 2021 16:18
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a highly insecure one, maybe, due to individuals ability to steal from it with little accountability gruff wild west frontier lawman voice: looks like we gotta give you the ol' SCAMMER TAG
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Jul 29, 2021 16:28
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Darth Brooks posted:A penny is pretty cheap for a days work.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:34
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:To be fair I don't think he was trying to say it was GOOD at other things, just that blockchains are not only limited to their function as a ledger for cryptocurrency transactions. You are correct. I just enjoy making the crypto-curious read about the Lightning Network because that’s that’s the actual origin of, “It can’t be that stupid, you must be explaining it wrong!” Currency of the future!!!
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Jul 29, 2021 18:31
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divabot posted:It sort of does: the UUCP email network common in the 1980s. This is when we didn't have DNS, so instead of sending email to bob@example.com, you'd need to map out the complete path to bob by hand, e.g. somemachine!ucbvax!kremlin!thefrigginmoon!portal!well!example!bob - "bang-path" email. I am just old enough to be computer-literate in 1990 as a freshman in High School. I missed that whole thing, because I remember having my very first “really good friend that is a real person I’ve never met but still talk to almost forty years later” on cmd-line irc and pine for email. Just like here on SA  
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Jul 29, 2021 18:39
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ymgve posted:That's slightly incorrect. If you just had to establish contract with every entity and prepay them, there would be no need for a network, you could just communicate directly with the entities you're paying. Tbh I am not surprised I bungled part of it, because I was going off the top of my head because I refuse to allow something so stupid into my brain again (the reason I put off the “research” to the uninitiated in the first place). You are correct, and I appreciated Gerard’s flavor-text about an early glance in computer history that also is directly germane to the topic.
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Jul 29, 2021 18:46
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divabot posted:It sort of does: the UUCP email network common in the 1980s. This is when we didn't have DNS, so instead of sending email to bob@example.com, you'd need to map out the complete path to bob by hand, e.g. somemachine!ucbvax!kremlin!thefrigginmoon!portal!well!example!bob - "bang-path" email. Pathalias (https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/papers/pathalias.paper.pdf) and the UUCP Mapping Project eventually helped make this less painful. Still required too much coordination and manual mapping.
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Jul 29, 2021 19:13
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ilovebeersooomuch posted:so punting it == problem solved Well the 5% can complain but you can probably get the 95% to shout them down.
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Jul 29, 2021 19:20
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DerekSmartymans posted:You are correct. I just enjoy making the crypto-curious read about the Lightning Network because that’s that’s the actual origin of, “It can’t be that stupid, you must be explaining it wrong!” oh wow. Where's the original?
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Jul 29, 2021 19:47
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Look whether you're pro-bitcoin or anti-bitcoin, there's one thing we can all agree on. Bitcoin is poggers.
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Jul 30, 2021 01:39
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Jul 30, 2021 02:29
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snorch posted:I skimmed the megapost, and it's very vague on how exactly bitcoin would undermine major financial institutions. Society will always gravitate towards trusting institutions, it's just that in butt world they're called new things like Tether and Binance. It undermines financial institutions on a few levels but the main point to understand is John Nash's concept of asymptotic ideal money. Bitcoin meets the requirements for asymptotically ideal money in that it is both attractive for hoarding (it only needs to be as good as a commodity like gold) and a can ultimately be a measure of quality of other currencies. More importantly, Bitcoin's inflation approaches zero, asymptotically over the next hundred and forty years or so. As Bitcoin grows in value, it becomes easier to see the quality of currencies like the USD, which in comparison are not good due to targeted inflation of around 2% (although inflation is currently a few points higher due to various economic factors related to the pandemic). In other words, Bitcoin becomes a magnet for money as users will choose a better quality of money to protect long term value. Nash's whole point is that, what's the difference in the transfer of utility between say a Zimbabwe dollar and the euro? Seems they both do a good job right? Well, not unless you look over long time, it quickly becomes obvious. In the US, we also look over long time, often within a lifetime and can see that the quality of the transfer of utility of the dollar is not good. Good, in this case is measured by its ability to maintain the integrity of a contract, according to Nash's concept of ideal money. Bitcoin versus USD is the same thing, just look at long term value of Bitcoin and long term value of USD over the same period. Also, because inflation is generally unstable with USD, it actually adds uncertainty. Because, even though the Fed aims for 2%, it has not done a very good job at hitting it consistently on an annual basis. By observation, it seems that short-term profit generation makes more sense under these circumstances, too. Interestingly, I think the whole point of ideal money (or in this case asymptotically ideal money), is to make it easier for cooperative games with transfer of utility to be possible. This seems like the ability to come to agreements would be more efficient with a Bitcoin currency than under our current monetary systems. It is also fair to point out that Nash was not outright calling for a new currency that could dismantle existing systems, however, his section on Machiavellian analysis is worth a read, if you want a real sense of how he felt about our current institutions. Assuming the process happens faster than the banking system (especially the central banks) can adjust, then USD becomes worthless in comparison. The pressure from an ideal money on non-ideal money is downward inflation based on Nash's writing in the 2009 paper. Of course, this presents a problem for the central banks because increasing rates to curb inflation at the wrong time would mean that one of many poorly placed dominoes would fall, causing another financial crisis. This is why the Federal Reserve generally only threatens rate increases, which it currently pins on near full-employment (this has not been met yet). Even looking historically post-2007 crisis, it has been difficult for central banks to role back low interest rates and QE policies, in fact when the US finally did (I think circa 2016), Europe could not. Even after the US did curtail the program, the economy was in trouble again in 2019 and I believe it was in August 2019 when the 2yr-10yr spread inverted (negative), which is historically a foreshadowing of a recession a few years down the line. You mention Tether and Binance, and yes, there are people who are fine with custodial services, but my thesis is not based on whether new custodial services form. The only thing that matters is that they form outside of the existing monetary system. snorch posted:Also there are enough other viable solutions to these problems that Bitcoin is just clunky and hard to maintain in comparison. I am not sure what you mean by "Bitcoin is just clunky and hard to maintain in comparison". In comparison to what? Bitcoin works extraordinarily well given that it has no central authority or regulations from external agencies. (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 30, 2021 06:38
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The fact that the vast vast majority of trading in bitcoins is actually trading in bitcoin-shaped tokens on an exchange's database, never going anywhere near the blockchain? With all of the massive disadvantages associated with that, that customers ninetheless prefer because actually trading using the blockchain is so painful?
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Jul 30, 2021 06:45
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Sir this is an Arbys drive thru
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Jul 30, 2021 07:19
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Gini coefficient of Bitcoin and other blockchain networks demonstrates the design is already slavery to plutocracy. Bitcoin is bankers attempting crypto feudalism. The game mechanics of blockchain networks encourage any means of propaganda to manipulate rubes into buying into artificial scarcity. Blockchain is a cancer spreading doom cult and it’s going door to door, asking for donations.
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Jul 30, 2021 08:25
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magusperivallon posted:I am not sure what you mean by "Bitcoin is just clunky and hard to maintain in comparison". In comparison to what? Bitcoin works extraordinarily well given that it has no central authority or regulations from external agencies. Except almost nobody actually uses Bitcoin, but rather trades off-chain on exchanges, which function as both central authorites for all the holdings they manage and can "regulate" your trading in any way they want. So how can you say it works when it is so inaccessible that almost nobody except big players even touch the actual blockchain?
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Jul 30, 2021 10:03
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buttcoin
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Jul 30, 2021 10:47
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im a little poopy baby (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 10:55
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take your meds
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Jul 30, 2021 11:16
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poor lil late adopter seraph, dredging yospos archives and carving himself into pieces with jealousy at us goons who knew about crypto in 2010 and correctly surmised it was rat poison squared and didn't contract the brain disease what's worse: that we knew before you did, or that we didn't become coiners and don't regret it?
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Jul 30, 2021 11:23
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"Food has no intrinsic value"
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Jul 30, 2021 11:26
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im a little poopy baby
Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 11:31
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server hosting has no intrinsic value either, since SA lives in your head rent-free
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Jul 30, 2021 11:32
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im a little poopy baby
Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 11:35
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Cryptoracle posted:Correct. If you're an autotroph, food is useless to you. Again, the universe is a big place. It's deeply humbling to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, it doesn't revolve around us. Congratulations, you got me; I'm an autograph
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Jul 30, 2021 11:38
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Do you really need to be told that meme quotes aren't responses? These aren't arguments you're posting, they're images and words thrown up like a squid sprays ink. Though after a certain point it's pretty impossible to get through, since pretty much the entire bitcoin community runs on buzzword-filled walls of text that everyone pretends they understand until they've tricked themselves into believing it makes sense.
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Jul 30, 2021 11:45
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im a little poopy baby
Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 11:58
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im a little poopy baby
Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 12:21
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Cryptoracle posted:^ that ain't me btw It is you, moron. Take your meds.
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Jul 30, 2021 13:00
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im a little poopy baby
Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 13:09
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