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Louisgod posted:I don’t know if I’m just burnt out on Sanderson but I’m 10% of the way through the first Stormlight book and it’s draaaaaaagging. I normally don’t mind his attention to detail of writing about the environments but he really goes overboard to the point where it takes away from the narrative and character interactions. I don’t care that a shack made from stone has a pebble ground or the color of every single thread on a cape. My good friend told me I’d be immediately hooked but it feels like work reading the book, which sucks. All his other books I’ve read were insanely addictive and a joy to read. I’ll keep going and give it a proper chance. Stormlight is good but yes it can be bloated, I do feel he gets better about it as it goes on, not shorter books overall mind you but less time describing every little thing.
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Jul 29, 2021 04:07
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Way of kings is the slow world building start to the series, it picks up some, particularly after WoK but still takes longer to hit climaxes than his shorter books. That said Elantris was so much harder for me to get through than WoK, the first two thirds of that is such a why do I care, then it pays off in Sanderson fashion.
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Jul 29, 2021 04:50
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Oh apparently I’m more like 37% of the way through WoK (379/1007) and it’s starting to pick up more thanks to Dalinar’s first detailed vision. I’ll keep up the good fight.
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Jul 29, 2021 05:38
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Yeah it gets better but ultimately Stormlight is definitely the very very word-y Sanderson series and it never really stops being that.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:16
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Brutor Fartknocker posted:Way of kings is the slow world building start to the series, it picks up some, particularly after WoK but still takes longer to hit climaxes than his shorter books. That said Elantris was so much harder for me to get through than WoK, the first two thirds of that is such a why do I care, then it pays off in Sanderson fashion. I don't even think the payoff in Elantris was even that good. Goddddd he spends so much time in that book on things that don't matter.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:21
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Elantris is his first published book, and unfortunately, you can really tell.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:29
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the way of kings is the first book in a ten book fantasy series that, unlike most similar things of its length, was intended to be ten books all along and so is written with that in mind. That's why it's the way it is, for better or for worse.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:57
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Tunzie posted:Elantris is his first published book, and unfortunately, you can really tell. Characters just completely disappear from the story. So many setups have no payoff. The actual “mystery” is kinda dumb. There is a good story there. He just could not write it at that time. I think if 2021 Sanderson was writing Elantris for the first time, it would be an incredible book.
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Jul 29, 2021 07:19
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^ Absolutely. I went in giving it the low bar a first deserves. Is it his worst cosmere book? Definitely, but I'm a huge fanboy so I still really like it, despite it's issues. It's just very low on my reread list. Maybe when a sequel is going to come out I'll go back. Stormlight is by a wide margin my favorite long series, but it is loooong. Very much disagree with the wheel of time comparison, that was so much worse in so many ways. Cool story, but gently caress rand I don't want to be the chosen one althor.
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Jul 29, 2021 07:40
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sandersons books are all cheesy as gently caress and kind of stupid but theyre unpredictable and weird too so it evens out.
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Jul 29, 2021 14:51
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The problem with Sanderson's writing in Stormlight isn't that it's too detailed. It's that the details are all repeats. He's told us what a crem-encrusted wall looks like about forty times before the first book is over. There's a dance you have to do as an author between reminding the reader of the environment when they need it for immersion and only showing the details that are pertinent necessary for the scene. Sanderson's terrible at it, or maybe great at it if you're a 13 year old who needs constant reminding and clarification. This is where he fails most as a prose writer, imo. He always chooses to write as clearly and possible without regard to structure variation and flow. Look at all the scenes in the book where every other sentence begins with someone's name. Most authors have trouble doing that in fight scenes when they're doing a play by play of each action, but Sanderson does it everywhere. There are a million times where a pronoun would serve so much better, but in a misguided attempt at clarity, it's, Kaladin summoned his Sylsword. Kaladin then stepped forward, glowing brightly for the townspeople to see. "The Everstorm is coming," Kaladin said. "We should take shelter at once." Kaladin dismissed his Sylsword and breathed out a puff of Stormlight Kaladin had been holding in.
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Jul 29, 2021 16:19
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That's very true in the first Alcatraz book I'm reading to my kids. We're 2/3rds of the way in and little to nothing of real interest has taken place; it's only been a few hours of in-book time and the main character has gone two places, and Sanderson's spent most of the pages on breaking the fourth wall through internal dialogue of reminding the reader of the same thing over and over and over again (that the character is a 'bad person', he's disappointed everybody in his life, foreshadowing a sacrifice on an altar). My kids are enjoying it but the worldbuilding is sparse and we're at a weird place in the book where Sanderson himself admits that it's odd he's spent "the last three chapters talking about being stuck in a jail cell" (almost verbatim quote), which comes off as an admission that he's done a lovely job of writing. But whatever, my kids are having fun despite me yelling internally "WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO GET TO THE FIREWORK FACTORY"
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Jul 29, 2021 16:29
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redreader posted:I loved the first one, loved the second one, liked the third one, was all set for the fourth one and am discovering right at the end that I'm not a big fan. Until about 60% of the way I was like 'normally there's a big build up then a satisfying climax' and the build up and climax only happened in the last 15%. I’m hopeful he set it up this way on purpose, making book 4 more boring so that like 70% of book 5 is a climax. We’ll see in about 2 years.
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Jul 29, 2021 16:48
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th3t00t posted:RoW was the first storm light book I was disappointed by as well. I imagine this is the case, "the second-to-last" book of any series always has pacing problems. RoW was definitely the first book that I felt could have been a lot shorter. I started a re-read months ago and it's such a slog I really have to force myself to pick it up. I enjoyed multiple re-reads of #1-3 but for some reason with RoW knowing how things end up I just don't have any patience for the slow pace of it. And I haven't really picked up on any neat details I overlooked on the first read either, but I'm only half way through it. It just feels like there is absolutely nothing of substance at all until Part 4/5.
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Jul 29, 2021 16:54
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Sab669 posted:I imagine this is the case, "the second-to-last" book of any series always has pacing problems. I blame Venli.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:05
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Leng posted:I blame Venli. They might be the worst character out of any Sanderson book so far.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:06
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Yeah while I still really like RoW it's easily the weakest book in the series, multiple chapters would be cut off and we would lose basically nothing, and the flashback sections was completely unnecessary, in the previous books we learned more about the characters and the world and I feel like we didn't really learn anything new during these. Especially after the very strong flashbacks of the third book.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:38
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Evil Fluffy posted:They might be the worst character out of any Sanderson book so far. Can't believe somebody eclipsed Sarene on this measure, but here we are. Adnor posted:Yeah while I still really like RoW it's easily the weakest book in the series, multiple chapters would be cut off and we would lose basically nothing, and the flashback sections was completely unnecessary, in the previous books we learned more about the characters and the world and I feel like we didn't really learn anything new during these. Dalinar's flashbacks are some of the best flashbacks in all of fiction, imho. It was always hard for later flashbacks to not be disappointing in comparison, but Venli's are outright boring. They don't tell an engaging story, and they don't tell us a lot of things we didn't already know. In fact, the book wouldn't be hurt at all if you just delete her flashbacks. This is certainly one of the biggest disappointments in RoW.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:53
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If every scene from a Listener/Singer/whatever PoV were removed from RoW, nothing important would have been lost, the pacing would have improved, and it would still be a bloated book.
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Jul 29, 2021 18:48
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RoW felt like a naruto filler arc
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Jul 29, 2021 19:45
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Ok I had 2 predictions right from the start and one of them was correct (finally finished RoW last night, the last 2% was good): 1: Adolin's shardblade spren would save him in the end. This was 100% correct 2: Rlain would bond the tower's spren and become a bondsmith and save the day. Nope, only humans allowed. I liked the bit with Wit and Odium at the end, I closed the book thinking 'Wit is hosed' I don't think I'll trust reviews of the fifth book since only Sanderson fans will read it. Maybe I'll feel like reading it by the time it comes out. Overall, the series was a decent read but ugghhh the fourth book uughh. I'm just so burned out.
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Jul 29, 2021 21:51
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I know I'm in minority on this issue at least in this thread, but I really dislike the Dalinar flashbacks. Just over the top stereotypical turbo masculine sports/warrior/bro dude for pages. It's as embarrassing to read as LOOK AT HOW CLEVER I AM poo poo from early Shallan chapters. It gets less bad as the book progresses but by then you're left with wondering how you can take his character at all seriously given where he started. There's an opportunity to write a nuanced descent from a talented warrior nobleman into an alcoholic Thrill-junky propelled by jealousy for his brother (esp his brothers wife) but we never get any indication that Dalinar started out with worthwhile material. He's just an rear end in a top hat that at some point off camera becomes better between flashbacks. The tragedy of losing his wife in the way he does just didn't play very well after that for me even though I thought it was independently pretty good. I also have less respect for Navani for liking Dalinar at any point during his past considering how much he sucked.
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Jul 29, 2021 22:02
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My hot take is that in RoW it’s actually Kaladin’s stuff I’m most annoyed with pacing wise. I felt like we’d dealt with the majority of his issues up to this point and only had a little further to go (getting to his last ideal, mostly), and Die Hard: Urithiru was neat at first but it just. Dragged. On, for so long. Its like three times he goes to have a fight with the dude to protect the maguffin, and fails to protect the maguffin and retreats, and it’s so drawn out (through the majority of the book in fact) it was starting to drive me up the wall. The final fight with the dude was pretty great, but getting there was a trial for me.
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Jul 29, 2021 22:05
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Tunzie posted:My hot take is that in RoW it’s actually Kaladin’s stuff I’m most annoyed with pacing wise. I maintain that having him escape earlier, with Venli, and have them buddy comedy their way back in would have been drastically better. It would've been, you know, fun, and given Venli an opportunity to not suck rear end.
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Jul 29, 2021 22:08
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Tunicate posted:RoW felt like a naruto filler arc Let's not drop nukes now.
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Jul 29, 2021 22:12
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External Organs posted:I maintain that having him escape earlier, with Venli, and have them buddy comedy their way back in would have been drastically better. It would've been, you know, fun, and given Venli an opportunity to not suck rear end. Christ that would have been so much better
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Jul 29, 2021 23:58
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External Organs posted:I maintain that having him escape earlier, with Venli, and have them buddy comedy their way back in would have been drastically better. It would've been, you know, fun, and given Venli an opportunity to not suck rear end. I like this but my personal solution was to have Kal be incapped and Teft do the Bruce Willis thing. That would have been a nice way to finish off his arc more meaningfully before killing him off in total subservience to Kals plot.
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Jul 30, 2021 00:18
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Lucas Archer posted:Let's not drop nukes now. Hey i didn't say bleach filler arc. But yeah I have to wonder how much of the characters spending their time miserable and isolated in a plagueridden building is unfortunate real world bleedin.
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Jul 30, 2021 00:59
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External Organs posted:I maintain that having him escape earlier, with Venli, and have them buddy comedy their way back in would have been drastically better. It would've been, you know, fun, and given Venli an opportunity to not suck rear end. I think that with Kaladin, he does a thematic thing to represent his depression where in Kaladins plot everything is way harder, more drawn out and with multiple set backs. Which is fine, but at this point is wearing out its welcome. Brandon is bending over backwards to be respectful and portray mental and physical illness with sensitivity and is employing multiple readers to help with that, but the book also needs to be fun to read so he’ll need to strike a better balance going forward.
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Jul 30, 2021 01:25
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I know I'm in minority on this issue at least in this thread, but I really dislike the Dalinar flashbacks. Just over the top stereotypical turbo masculine sports/warrior/bro dude for pages. That's kinda the entire point though. Dalinar was the super murder dudebro that the men in his culture all aspire to be and, well, that leads to events happening. Lucas Archer posted:Let's not drop nukes now. At least it wasn't Bleach filler arc levels of bad. External Organs posted:I maintain that having him escape earlier, with Venli, and have them buddy comedy their way back in would have been drastically better. It would've been, you know, fun, and given Venli an opportunity to not suck rear end. This would've been amazing, especially if that entire section had been cut in half because it was far too long. fake edit: Tunicate posted:Hey i didn't say bleach filler arc. Let's all remember the Bount arc and marvel at how something so loving atrocious managed to get greenlit.
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Jul 30, 2021 01:26
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He's writing way too much way too fast for such a huge cosmic spanning thing.
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Jul 30, 2021 03:04
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Barreft posted:He's writing way too much way too fast for such a huge cosmic spanning thing. Counterpoint, the only reason he's in position to write this kind thing is because he outputs his books at the same rate that Marvel makes movies. The Cosmere is the BYU MCU.
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Jul 30, 2021 03:30
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BananaNutkins posted:BYU MCU. 
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Jul 30, 2021 03:38
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I think he just needs more aggressive editors who aren't afraid to tell him he needs to cut stuff. He's a great writer but he is also self-indulgent and needs someone to reign that in. It's like a great director who makes a lovely, bloated directors cut that's worse than the normal release, because cutting things that don't add to the core story can very often make things much better. Also he needs to fire or stop listening to the person who suggested killing eshonia because she was too similar to Kaladin. Cause wow that did not work out.
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Jul 30, 2021 04:54
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The Venli flashbacks could of worked if we never got the Eshonai POV and this was our first look deeper into their stuff.
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Jul 30, 2021 04:56
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He should probably also take less feedback from the dissociative identity disorder folks, since by and large that’s completely made up culture bound syndrome lol. ROW was the first book with his new in house editor, right? Because that kinda makes sense
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Jul 30, 2021 06:17
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Slanderer posted:ROW was the first book with his new in house editor, right? Because that kinda makes sense No, it wasn't! If you search my post history, you'll find a summary of who edited what. I'll dig it out when I'm not phone posting. EDIT: Leng posted:
So Devi came onboard as part of OB. RoW is the first book with her at the editorial helm, but on that note, I should also add that RoW deviates significantly from Sanderson's usual structure: Leng posted:Brandon on structure of Stormlight books: Leng fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 10:15
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moments I had during the Cosmere reveals), it's structurally much weaker than WoK or WoR.
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Taffer posted:Also he needs to fire or stop listening to the person who suggested killing eshonia because she was too similar to Kaladin. Cause wow that did not work out. Yeah that's got to be one of the worst decisions and it really shows in ROW where they'd have made far, far more sense in place of their unsympathetic and unlikable replacement. The ending of the book gave the brief hope that maybe he was going to undo that mistake but nope.  Well, he rewrote one book's ending already so maybe he'll do it again since it'd actually be a good change this time.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:36
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I was in a real low mental health level when I read the Stormlight books. I was actually ok with Kaladin in ROW, because it resonated with me how he still couldn't put it all together no matter how far he had come or how much work he had done.
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Jul 30, 2021 14:50
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RoW: I wish we had gotten so much more of Kaladin inventing psychology. Maybe with the Ishar stuff next book, but that'll be frenetic. Brandon can write that kind of exploration really quite well, particularly in The Emperor's Soul. I think he tried with the Navani stuff but it maybe went on for a tad long. Come to think of it, the Navani stuff could have made an interesting novella, and swap that in with Dawnshard and the book maybe gets a lot better without much changing of plot.
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Jul 30, 2021 15:07
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