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oliveoil posted:I'd agree with that usually but this is a good friend of a good friend and they're planning to quit their jobs as soon as they get funding, which is only blocked right now by finding a tech lead that they trust. I had a friend in a similar place who went to work in a Solar startup with his friends. I think overall it was a positive experience for him, but you're riding the ups and downs of the rollercoaster with your friends. If you can find the discipline to limit yourself to 40 hours and the startup is ok with it, it's worth taking a shot. It could be a decent experience if you're really interested in the product/service. Even better if it'll improve your skills in a way that Google can't. Otherwise, it'll be a huge slog and won't feel as rewarding. If you're just chasing $$$, it might be more rewarding to look into hedge funds (DE Shaw, Jane Street).
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Jul 28, 2021 13:55
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oliveoil posted:They're not asking for 60hrs but I feel like it would probably be necessary in order to stay ahead of the competition Absolute bullshit. There's no way you're going to be productive for that many hours over a sustained period. There are mountains of research showing this. The only exception to increased hours yielding increased productivity is over extremely short, goal-driven periods followed by recuperation.
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Jul 28, 2021 14:08
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Hm. Maybe you guys are right. I forgot more hours from me won't necessarily lead to better productivity long term. And in my case, the team lead working extra probably doesn't add that much because I'd just be one person of a team. Breaking my back to add more time wouldn't increase the total amount of hours much anyway. I do think it will be difficult to stay ahead of similar companies though. It's just not a difficult product to clone. Maybe that's a strong sign that I should avoid this project. If they can keep coming up with ideas for products to add then maybe they'll stay ahead, idk. It's probably also dumb for me to look at this as a five year commitment rather than a one-year one. If I go to Google, my plan is to come in at L4 and then study so I can apply for an L+1 position somewhere else after a year. If I plan to interview for L+1 after a year anyway, then maybe a year of building and leading a team at a start-up would give me better L+1 experience and let me come back to Google at L+1, which seems like a much more relaxed gig than Facebook or Amazon at L+1. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jul 28, 2021 |
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Jul 28, 2021 14:22
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oliveoil posted:Once companies already serving this industry notice that this need is unaddressed, it'll probably be easy for them to add it. I think they'd need to constantly add to their product to solve new problems in order to stay ahead. Uh, that's not a good thing. If this product is that easy to crank out, and as profitable as the founders promise, your advantage of being first is nearly worthless. Your company will be fighting established players from almost day-one, and they'll probably undercut your price just long enough for you to go out of business.
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Jul 28, 2021 14:23
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oliveoil posted:If you've ever worked a non-tech job and realized that a long, annoying manual process you do all the time consists of a bunch of smaller tasks that can all be easily automated, but nobody has done it because nobody doing it is an engineer Are you talking about "low code" or "no code" platforms for business ops? If so, there are about a million of them out there all trying to find the same silver bullet.
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Jul 28, 2021 14:30
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B-Nasty posted:Uh, that's not a good thing. If this product is that easy to crank out, and as profitable as the founders promise, your advantage of being first is nearly worthless. Your company will be fighting established players from almost day-one, and they'll probably undercut your price just long enough for you to go out of business. Yeah, that's my main fear with this. Blinkz0rz posted:Are you talking about "low code" or "no code" platforms for business ops? If so, there are about a million of them out there all trying to find the same silver bullet. Nah, it's more like when you realize your job can be done by an excel script that you can write in a week. Except in this case, it's more like a collection of scripts for different tasks to handle some IT work on several different operating systems. It's like building a tool for Google's internal IT team, TechStop. If Google had to deal with this problem (they don't since it's industry-specific) then I would actually expect the TechStop team to have automated it. E: After writing all that down, I think it would be fair to think of their startup idea as wanting to be the dev side of a specific industry's TechStop / IT department. E2: on second thought, I am not really sure I want to do any more work like that. It's basically what I used to do and I got really bored with it. oliveoil fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jul 28, 2021 |
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Jul 28, 2021 15:05
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linkedin got to ipo and buyout without any companywide crunch and very rare per-team crunch. if they can do it you can too lol there is a genre of salespeep who can actually sell and there is a genre of salespeep who can just sell themselves who cant sell that well. do you know for sure that theyre in camp one? (three-man startup, theres only salespeeps and producttouchers, no other roles) how do you know this? are you willing and able to deal and live w these peeps more than normal peeps deal and live w their spouses? cuz even at 40/week thats gonna happen. importantly, have you ever had a fight w these peeps and made it up successfully? the relationships that peeps have w their startup cofounders is basically platonically married or war. no middle ground look at their vc deck (if they dont have one theyre lying about the investment coming, lol). what do they list as their competitors? why are you gonna beat them? if its to be a product focused b2b dealio its gonna be 70% you and 30% the salespeeps lol so thats a very specific you bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 28, 2021 |
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Jul 28, 2021 18:43
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If this is a product where you're trying to get non-coders to specify something that would have previously required code, I feel like those all devolve into programming anyways. A hint there is if you have a technically group at a company (Google TechStop?) dedicated to it already then you already have technically inclined people dealing with it anyways. I've seen similar schemes to get electrical engineers to automate without writing code that end up like writing code in a clunky, domain specific way (which is objectively worse).
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Jul 29, 2021 03:29
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Now I want to complain a bit. I managed to squeeze some limited feedback from my Amazon recruiter after the original Dear John letter. Apparently my big turn off was basically using the same situations in multiple behavioral interviews. I know I didn't literally do that, but I was using certain projects as an introduction to the problem at hand. Apparently that sounded like I was recycling examples. All I can really think to do is skip out on this context and get closer to the grit of the actual problem, which might be more concise too. I just don't know if that'll turn people off in other ways. (Wish I had known this before my Google interview. I've been told at worst my feedback was okay and great at best so I'm hoping I did okay.)
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Jul 29, 2021 03:33
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Now I want to complain a bit. I managed to squeeze some limited feedback from my Amazon recruiter after the original Dear John letter. Apparently my big turn off was basically using the same situations in multiple behavioral interviews. I know I didn't literally do that, but I was using certain projects as an introduction to the problem at hand. Apparently that sounded like I was recycling examples. I guess this is just the lottery - I used the same project multiple times and even told almost the exact same story to two different interviewers and it was fine. I also didn't mention any of the leadership principles at all. I guess my batch of interviewers were more focused on the technical than behavioral side? Or I just got lucky.
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Jul 29, 2021 14:47
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Interview feedback is pretty worthless given how differently companies hire, how different people perceive things, and the likelihood of them actually telling the truth in their feedback. Amazon's feedback for me last time was "didn't problem solve fast enough" even though I did 3 LC Mediums in the span of 45 minutes, to completion, and had seen all 3 before so I knew the answers were correct. This was after 100%-ing their timed take-home. I wouldn't read into that response as too much besides some fluff, and I'm surprised Amazon even said anything.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:43
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Yeah, I'm honestly surprised you got feedback at all. I've never gotten feedback beyond wishy-washy "we decided you weren't a good fit" kinds of stuff. I assume that legal teams don't like giving feedback because there's no upside to the company and plenty of potential for downside (e.g. "you're not the right race/gender/politics/whatever", "you're pregnant", etc).
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Jul 29, 2021 15:51
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its not in the companies interest to give feedback to a rejected candidate especially not honest feedback
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Jul 29, 2021 17:42
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barkbell posted:its not in the companies interest to give feedback to a rejected candidate especially not honest feedback Depends on how that company runs. Sometimes it's in their interest if they're inviting the candidate to apply again after gaining more experience. "Improve on this and try again" kind of stuff. This only works when your interview process is focused on experience than on algorithm.
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Jul 29, 2021 19:18
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Also it might just be a “you were really good but we still went with someone else who was really good” at which point your only actionable feedback is, like, be a better ~*culture fit*~ or some poo poo.
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Jul 29, 2021 19:31
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I make it a point to ask for feedback anyway, especially if the company claims their culture values feedback. Usually they don't say anything so I know I wouldn't want to work there anyway, sometimes I get a safe non-answer like "too senior for what we're looking for" or "not technical enough". Once I got a meeting with the VP of engineering talking about the feedback, then another meeting with the VP and CTO where we talked about it some more. That's probably a huge exception, but useful feedback can happen.oliveoil posted:And in my case, the team lead working extra probably doesn't add that much because I'd just be one person of a team. Breaking my back to add more time wouldn't increase the total amount of hours much anyway. The team lead's greatest contribution isn't cranking out the most code, it's the leadership part. I've seen much better performance from the team when I spend 8 hours a day helping 8 people rather than trying to put in a full day of coding on top of other responsibilities.
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Jul 30, 2021 04:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yeah, I'm honestly surprised you got feedback at all. I've never gotten feedback beyond wishy-washy "we decided you weren't a good fit" kinds of stuff. This time around, I also had a Facebook screen that I ran out of time on. I didn't bother asking for feedback because as far as I can see, the feedback was "memorize all coding problems and vomit them without engaging in dialog with the interviewer that would be a distraction." What was perhaps more useful was the feedback I got from recruiters before I fully started the process this time. They wouldn't tell me literally what was what but dropped enough spoilers. That's where I found I was in some kind of bizarroworld. I had done fine with system design but there was nitpicking on code quality and behavioral stuff. So you recall my e/n on that recently: it was because I knew I was deficient and I had to figure out what the hell. Even this time, it looks like Amazon didn't like whatever-what-the-heck with that. Still, it's probably more a surprise that I'm doing the system design stuff well. Apparently this time around, I did even better and it's a strength or something. This is preposterous to me. I have never actually touched a distributed system before! I must be that guy that draws all the boxes and poo poo. You want to stay away from me! I didn't get a call from Google today, which basically leaves tomorrow morning. I'm still hopeful. I had found out in 2019 they had actually interviewed me for an L6 position and I apparently just missed it. I think it was a mistake in converting my company's rank to Google's where they saw a 7 (would have been L5), thought it was a 9 (which would be L6), and accidentally threw me in the piranha tank. In a parallel universe where I actually passed, I would have probably been grounded into a fine sand within two months of starting if I started out as an L6.
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Jul 30, 2021 06:46
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Nope, blew it with Google too. They felt like they had prompted too much to get me through the coding solutions and that I didn't cover all the edge cases. That's a real mismatch to me because I thought I nailed that. It's also different from Amazon who did not have a problem with that. All I can really think for the future (if I even try for this some more) is to get a book on these puzzles so I can just bulk skim them and recognize things sooner. For the behavioral, I should skip on some of the larger context so I don't sound like I am using the same examples.
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Jul 30, 2021 16:34
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It's all luck.
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Jul 30, 2021 17:28
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's all luck. its all sales, unfortunately
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Jul 30, 2021 17:30
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Case in point: I'm currently in the midst of a last rounder with a Large Tech Not FAANG But Big company that Pays Well. I got a Medium LC I had seen before! But it's such a long problem and writing it out and explaining it takes a while, which I completed.. but my interviewer said something about "Ideally it'll run with the input solution" and I went from Feelin Good to Feelin Bad very quickly.
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Jul 30, 2021 17:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:It's all luck. I mean, yeah, but I have delusions that it's like that wildly-attributed quote about golf, "The more I practice, the luckier I get."
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Jul 30, 2021 17:44
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Your interviewer may decide that they're going to recommend no hire based on their first impressions. Not much you can do to prepare for that.
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Jul 30, 2021 18:06
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Been at "big tech but not FAANG" for about 2 years now (mostly during Covid) after 10 years of smaller/startup work. Feeling pretty bored and chatting with a bunch of early stage companies to see if I can head of engineering and build out an org. I feel pretty crazy moving away from a good company that pays way too well but I've come to the realization that being bored just isn't worth it for me. Definitely not a woe is me situation as we're super loving privileged work in this field but still feels like odd decisions to be making.
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Jul 30, 2021 18:10
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Doh004 posted:Been at "big tech but not FAANG" for about 2 years now (mostly during Covid) after 10 years of smaller/startup work. Feeling pretty bored and chatting with a bunch of early stage companies to see if I can head of engineering and build out an org. I feel you, in a very similar boat. 2.5 years at a big-but-not-FAANG company as a senior dev and overall just kind of bored/burned out from the tedium of the same problems day in and day out. I did the small company/startup thing years back and it was more fun, but certainly less stable and less well paid and has its own host of bullshit problems. But at least I got to work on more cool stuff. I haven't started talking to any other companies, but the thought crosses my mind more and more. But my golden handcuffs have me getting compensated wildly more than any small company could pay, at least for the next 2ish years if the stock doesn't crater. I'd have to go level+1 at a real FAANG to even match. And I don't know that I have it in me to interview/start another "big tech" job after this. Real first world problems I know but  On the other hand, I feel like I need a good long break whenever this ends and before I do whatever comes next. If I can ride it out a bit longer, cash out, and take a break then switching to a lower paid gig might be completely reasonable. Past a certain point the money starts to matter less. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 18:39
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Man I gotta give up being a primarily php developer. The pay I'm seeing out there is just peanuts. Kinda sad, I like laravel, like the query builder for SQL. I know other tech so I'm not totally lost.
Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 30, 2021 |
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Jul 30, 2021 19:18
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ultrafilter posted:Your interviewer may decide that they're going to recommend no hire based on their first impressions. Not much you can do to prepare for that. thats salesland for you lol what the salespeeps do is wear nicer clothes and get plastic surgery. prolly not on the table but thats what the salespeeps do
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Jul 30, 2021 19:20
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How is salesforce development? I can be trained at a potential job but idk if it's a valuable language. Coming from .net/c#. kinda thinking of just learning react and jumping to that. Separately is there a place for dev jobs for like museums or art galleries? Some place 'fun'?
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Jul 30, 2021 19:34
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Edgar Allan Pwned posted:How is salesforce development? I can be trained at a potential job but idk if it's a valuable language. Coming from .net/c#. kinda thinking of just learning react and jumping to that. i would rather gouge out quite important internal organs than do sfdc dev again
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Jul 30, 2021 20:11
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Guinness posted:I feel you, in a very similar boat. 2.5 years at a big-but-not-FAANG company as a senior dev and overall just kind of bored/burned out from the tedium of the same problems day in and day out. I did the small company/startup thing years back and it was more fun, but certainly less stable and less well paid and has its own host of bullshit problems. But at least I got to work on more cool stuff. Glad I'm not alone! Agreed though, grass isn't always greener on the other side. No doubt in my mind about the *amount* of work that'll have to go into it and having to go with a higher risk.
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Jul 30, 2021 21:50
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Nope, blew it with Google too. They felt like they had prompted too much to get me through the coding solutions and that I didn't cover all the edge cases. That's a real mismatch to me because I thought I nailed that. It's also different from Amazon who did not have a problem with that. At this point, practicing all these data structure and algorithms problems are for my own benefit as an engineer than as a way to nail the interview, cause it's quite arbitrary. I ain't working at a FAANG any time soon.
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Jul 30, 2021 23:32
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Question for the experienced: do FAANG companies (especially the F one) care if you use their products? I have an interview with facebook lined up and I don't know ... I never used it, never cared about it and I have no idea what they're doing there. Would that matter? Not that I would be able to pass their whatever interviews they have, but that's a different matter altogether, neither here or there. But if they deduct a point for not using FB then I wouldn't even bother. The first call with their recruiter was really short and seemed really focused on him selling FB to me and move on (maybe he's getting a bonus or whatever). Next call I will ask the important questions, but I thought I'd ping those in the know first.
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Jul 31, 2021 02:39
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It doesn't help with your question, but you reminded me of when I interviewed for Experts Exchange back in 2006 and they asked me if I was familiar with their website already and I had to admit that I'd looked at it, but found the layout confusing and couldn't figure out how it worked lol
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Jul 31, 2021 02:48
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Facebook will not care if you've never used it.
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Jul 31, 2021 03:14
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When I interviewed at Amazon I asked them if they wanted my personal email, to prove that I was a long term customer. There interviewer said something like, “nah, as far as we’re concerned everyone is either a customer or one day will be.”
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Jul 31, 2021 04:39
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The last thing I want when interviewing someone, is them giving me a written record of me receiving their PII, because now I need a paper trail proving what happened to it People love to poo poo all over Salesforce developer stuff, but honestly it's probably good job security and very low stress, product people will worship you as their golden God. Good choice if you have 2 or more kids and a mortgage and have to drive kids to soccer practice after school. In terms of job satisfaction it's probably 
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Jul 31, 2021 04:51
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Top tl;dr here: What kind of stuff would you say a successful Linux kernel developer can do in regular day-to-day stuff? I kind of want to compile a list of skills to move towards. So now I have to think about what I'm doing over the next year given I flopped through this season of FAANG stuff. My current job wants to move me into Linux internals and I was dreading it. However, I have an former colleague talking to me about needing Linux kernel developers and how he highly doubts he'll even fill them through the year and beyond because it's so hard to find them. So I do see some opportunity here to train myself into a position where I have some more leeway to be remote in the post-Covid future. At this point, I'm assuming that remote opportunities like right now will just dry up because the US seems incapable of learning anything, and I'll just let myself be pleasantly surprised if it turns out otherwise. With my wife basically wanting to be somewhere with some land to farm flowers, being able to do kernel stuff would give me a shot at being able to still work on software without having to commute over an hour one-way. The dread I have with my current job wanting me to work on this is that I can smell it being one of those "not 5 years of experience, but the same six months of experience repeated 10 times" kind of deals. It just looks like lots and lots and lots of really lovely drivers. I don't want to use it as a baseline because it's an especially peculiar situation. So I am asking here if anybody can give some overviews of what it's like to be successful doing Linux internal stuff. I know it also varies from person to person and from position to position, but I would treat it as a rough list to try to work against as much as possible. So I'd pick up on some work that checks off some of the fields. I have some stuff from my former colleague that I'm using as a reference too. Edit: Book recommendations will work too. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 18:01
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I mean, it's probably better than web dev, at least.
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Aug 2, 2021 01:11
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Pollyanna posted:I mean, it's probably better than web dev, at least.
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Aug 2, 2021 01:21
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I kinda lurk this thread, but the general idea is 6 years of experience, useless associates degree, and $145k at a small company (~50 employees, 12 devs) in Phoenix. I started out FE and basically have never said no to anything so I've always been the person that people go to when they need something to get done even if it isn't something I've had experience with. I generally get handed complete features to implement end to end, but the main focus has been BE over the last year and a half or so due to where the company has needed the most work done. We are Angular 12 / .NET MVC API using linq2sql; slowly converting to .NET Core / Dapper. Anyway, my 4yr anniversary at this place just passed last month and I've been kind of thinking about what else is out there, especially since I have no real specialization and I feel like I am coasting more than I should be. Do larger companies like Microsoft have generalists, or how does that route normally go once you have some target companies in mind? Is the first step to pick a tech focus? I should note that I have basically zero interest in chasing a FANG; I'm looking for something in a tier below that with a good work-life balance, stability, and some level of mentorship. I guess I am kind of lost as far as where to start since I have no real dream in mind and it is mostly about continuing my trek up the mountain. Reading reddit tells me that I should be grinding leetcode since I have no formal DS&A education.
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