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Yes, symbolism is very important to the Chaos Gods-- they're creatures of pure belief-- and never more so than during the Siege. During Saturnine, Daemon-Fulgrim duels Dorn, and Dorn beats the poo poo out of him. There was some whining about that on Reddit and elsewhere. But it makes sense, because Dorn's strength is his unwavering will to defend any wall, and the fight literally takes place on the Palace walls. Dorn going out and trying to duel Fulgrim in an open field would get punked in seconds. Dorn, when defending a fortification that he himself has raised, is symbolically and metaphorically undefeatable. That's true generally, because like all the Primarchs Dorn is basically a warp entity, but it's double true when dueling another Primarch, and triply true when duelling a daemon primarch. Daemons are creatures of symbolism and belief just like their masters. Fulgrim can't defeat Dorn on a wall, because the point of Dorn is that when he's on a wall, that wall gets held.
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Aug 3, 2021 02:54
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Shockeh posted:
Understanding the warp symbolism well enough to gently caress with chaos probably won't end well for whoever is trying to do it honestly. Even inquisitors get corrupted by that knowledge. Also during Horus Heresy Lion is one who understands the symbolic nature destroying the homeworlds of the traitor primarchs and gets to it. I do wonder how much of an impact that had.
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Aug 3, 2021 03:19
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boredsatellite posted:Understanding the warp symbolism well enough to gently caress with chaos probably won't end well for whoever is trying to do it honestly. Even inquisitors get corrupted by that knowledge. I know, and that makes the story seed all the better. 
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Aug 3, 2021 03:42
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yes, symbolism is very important to the Chaos Gods-- they're creatures of pure belief-- and never more so than during the Siege. During Saturnine, Daemon-Fulgrim duels Dorn, and Dorn beats the poo poo out of him. There was some whining about that on Reddit and elsewhere. But it makes sense, because Dorn's strength is his unwavering will to defend any wall, and the fight literally takes place on the Palace walls. Dorn going out and trying to duel Fulgrim in an open field would get punked in seconds. Dorn, when defending a fortification that he himself has raised, is symbolically and metaphorically undefeatable. That's true generally, because like all the Primarchs Dorn is basically a warp entity, but it's double true when dueling another Primarch, and triply true when duelling a daemon primarch. Daemons are creatures of symbolism and belief just like their masters. Fulgrim can't defeat Dorn on a wall, because the point of Dorn is that when he's on a wall, that wall gets held. Well reasoned. I concur. 
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Aug 3, 2021 05:01
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boredsatellite posted:Understanding the warp symbolism well enough to gently caress with chaos probably won't end well for whoever is trying to do it honestly. Even inquisitors get corrupted by that knowledge. It actually seems to be working out incredibly well for Valdor, given the size of his city in Pandemonium.
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Aug 3, 2021 05:16
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Shockeh posted:Also absolutely yes. The 40k universe, by nature, understands symbols and beliefs have power. If anything, the Chaos Gods are enslaved by them, they have to act in ways that are symbolic, even if it means pursuing a less optimal path. This has all the hallmarks of something that will go just. As. Planned.
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Aug 3, 2021 09:30
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yes, symbolism is very important to the Chaos Gods-- they're creatures of pure belief-- and never more so than during the Siege. During Saturnine, Daemon-Fulgrim duels Dorn, and Dorn beats the poo poo out of him. There was some whining about that on Reddit and elsewhere. But it makes sense, because Dorn's strength is his unwavering will to defend any wall, and the fight literally takes place on the Palace walls. Dorn going out and trying to duel Fulgrim in an open field would get punked in seconds. Dorn, when defending a fortification that he himself has raised, is symbolically and metaphorically undefeatable. That's true generally, because like all the Primarchs Dorn is basically a warp entity, but it's double true when dueling another Primarch, and triply true when duelling a daemon primarch. Daemons are creatures of symbolism and belief just like their masters. Fulgrim can't defeat Dorn on a wall, because the point of Dorn is that when he's on a wall, that wall gets held. Doesn't Dorn also have some anti-magick aura because he's thinking too straight?
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Aug 3, 2021 09:31
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Yeah there are references to him being pretty much a blank like Primarch (though not quite like one)
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Aug 3, 2021 09:59
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Shockeh posted:Also absolutely yes. The 40k universe, by nature, understands symbols and beliefs have power. If anything, the Chaos Gods are enslaved by them, they have to act in ways that are symbolic, even if it means pursuing a less optimal path. Tzeentch corrupts them reflexively and now it takes multiple Inquisitorial kill teams to put them down. What did you think was going to happen asks the nine-eyed cloud of fire.
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Aug 3, 2021 11:26
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Shockeh posted:E: UNNNNGN Now I have an idea for a 40k Story - About the faction of Inquisitors who recognise this, and begin actively creating opportunities for the forces of the Archenemy to act in ways that create symbolic 'Nexus' events, that actually lead them to defeat, because the Chaos Gods cannot refuse them even if they might objectively want to. Oh that's so drat delicious in my brain, ack. I think this would be a rogue, honestly, because anybody doing this poo poo is gonna get declared Extremis Diabolus and sanctioned with extreme prejudice. This is some Quixos level poo poo here.
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Aug 3, 2021 11:45
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Khizan posted:I think this would be a rogue, honestly, because anybody doing this poo poo is gonna get declared Extremis Diabolus and sanctioned with extreme prejudice. This is some Quixos level poo poo here. I know, right? I started scribbling tonight, this is an absolute mindworm for me.
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Aug 3, 2021 12:01
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Khizan posted:I think this would be a rogue, honestly, because anybody doing this poo poo is gonna get declared Extremis Diabolus and sanctioned with extreme prejudice. This is some Quixos level poo poo here. Xanthism could fit well, they're extreme radicals who are technically still on the Imperium's side. "Xanthites have even been known to establish their own Chaos Cults, using the sect to unravel ancient mysteries and lore." https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Xanthism Horusianism too: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horusians
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Aug 3, 2021 12:23
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They would get harassed by puritans, sure, but so do other puritans. e: oops this was meant to be an edit.
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Aug 3, 2021 12:31
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Just remember it needs to go horribly wrong/horribly right at the same time!
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Aug 3, 2021 12:59
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I mean, the faction name writes itself, but I don’t want to say it in case I manage to maintain any focus and this becomes A Thing - They’re the Damocleans, obviously.
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Aug 3, 2021 13:03
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Khizan posted:I think this would be a rogue, honestly, because anybody doing this poo poo is gonna get declared Extremis Diabolus and sanctioned with extreme prejudice. This is some Quixos level poo poo here. Hey now, you want to land a big chaos fish you need big symbolic bait
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Aug 5, 2021 03:19
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Pretty sure you'd need a lotta hubris to try to pull it off and would be guaranteed to get burned
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Aug 5, 2021 04:45
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Man, Betrayer is so good (of course it is, it's ADB), and really made me fall in love with the World Eaters. Before reading this (and Butcher's Nails before it), I just thought of Angron and the WE as bloodthirsty edgelords, but man ADB really wrote Angron as a sad and sympathetic character. I'm sure 40k World Eaters are more... annoyingly edgy. But the 30k stuff is really good.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:48
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:Man, Betrayer is so good (of course it is, it's ADB), and really made me fall in love with the World Eaters. ADB is a miracle worker in that book, because even the beserk war scenes are well written. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember the battle with Kharn being lost to the nails but realising his entire army will be wiped out if their insane charge doesn't work so he has to MAKE it work was insane. ADB somehow took a bunch of two dimensional cardboard cutouts known for being silly roaring beserkers and crafted them into compelling characters. And well written Angron just brings out the tragedy of what he could have been. You get glimpses that he would have been one of the most fair, loyal and inspiring primarchs in other circumstances
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Aug 5, 2021 10:32
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Telsa Cola posted:Pretty sure you'd need a lotta hubris to try to pull it off and would be guaranteed to get burned So, the traits of every Inquisitor ever?
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Aug 5, 2021 11:58
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Last two TTS episodes are up on the channel for those interested. The final plot twist is kinda v v. It's a plot twist, just not a very interesting one.
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Aug 5, 2021 14:32
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It's very Sopranos.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:16
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Cooked Auto posted:Last two TTS episodes are up on the channel for those interested. The final plot twist is kinda v I seem to be the only WH lore fan who never once so much as grinned at TTS. Though I admit that the Protean Protocol musical / operetta was a catchy earworm.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:16
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NihilCredo posted:I seem to be the only WH lore fan who never once so much as grinned at TTS. Though I admit that the Protean Protocol musical / operetta was a catchy earworm. Nah, I'm there with you. I'm not celebrating TTS going on hold or anything but I'm not going to even slightly miss it and I'm marginally (if wrongly) hopeful its memes' influence on popular views of the setting lessen with time.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:25
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Cooked Auto posted:Last two TTS episodes are up on the channel for those interested. The final plot twist is kinda v He put the synopsis for the final episode that won't be aired in the first comment. kitten will be resurrected by the proteus protocol but he's a bit dumber due to brain rot from the whole "being dead" thing. just the kind of fakeout for more inane shenanigans I'd expect, really.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:He put the synopsis for the final episode that won't be aired in the first comment.  Can't say I'm too impressed by that revelation.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:39
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The series was basically a sitcom and the plot wasn't exactly important or well written to begin with, so I'm not entirely disappointed with this ending.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:34
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Plus this wasn't meant to be the ending so it's not like it was built up to be a shocking twist. This is the kind of thing that is a joke "shocking twist" that would get resolved immediately. Just like everything involving Vulkan.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:38
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I was reading the Night Lord omnibus and the talk of gene seed made me think of an idea for one of the lost legions. They are created, go out into the galaxy and find their Primarch. He tells them that quantity has a quality all its own, and they start farming entire planets for their legion. Maybe there’s a mutation where their gene seed creates 3 progenoid glands, in exchange for them losing the functional immortality of the Space Marines - they just have natural lifespans of 3-5 centuries. After years of this they have waaaaay more marines than they should. Someone outside the legion finds out, and then they get destroyed and blasted from Imperial memory. Thanks for listening, Wendy’s drive thru person.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:47
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I liked Emperors Text to Speech Device when there wasn’t a plot.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:18
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I hated it before it was cool to hate it
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Aug 6, 2021 01:10
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i dont even know what it was and i dont care !
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Aug 6, 2021 04:42
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secular woods sex posted:I was reading the Night Lord omnibus and the talk of gene seed made me think of an idea for one of the lost legions. Space Marines normally produce Geneseed throughout their life span, its just harvested after a bit. It's generally how destroyed chapters rebuild and why it takes awhile.
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Aug 6, 2021 05:07
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Dog_Meat posted:And well written Angron just brings out the tragedy of what he could have been. You get glimpses that he would have been one of the most fair, loyal and inspiring primarchs in other circumstances I loved the reveal that Angron is pretty convinced he'd have turned against the Emperor anyway. Cause what Angron was built for was to cast down tyrants, and by god casting down tyrants is what he was gonna do.
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Aug 6, 2021 06:12
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IshmaelZarkov posted:I loved the reveal that Angron is pretty convinced he'd have turned against the Emperor anyway. Cause what Angron was built for was to cast down tyrants, and by god casting down tyrants is what he was gonna do. Counterpoint is that the Khan is extremely similar to Angron in a whoooole lot of ways and he has explicitly stated that despite this the Emperor was correct to act how he did in several instances, with a super key one imo being the whole informing primarchs and people about Chaos. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 06:42
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IshmaelZarkov posted:I loved the reveal that Angron is pretty convinced he'd have turned against the Emperor anyway. Cause what Angron was built for was to cast down tyrants, and by god casting down tyrants is what he was gonna do. That scene had me loving grinning. It was such a great moment.
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Aug 6, 2021 06:44
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TTS did give us the definitive voice actor for Magnus the Red. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8dsGuRPKQ&t=2202s The Oculus has stated that he isn't going on hiatus, so that's some damned good news. e.Truth. Angron is the most tragic figure in the lore.
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Aug 6, 2021 06:48
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All of the traitor Primarchs are so much more fascinating because they have such tragic backstories. I'm glad I've been reading the Dawn of Fire/Dark Imperium stuff because it's really making me come around on the Ultramarines. They're not as "one dimensional good guys" as I assumed they'd be. That's the problem with reading about all the different chapters- I still don't know what I want to paint my Indomitus box in, I fall in love with a different chapter each month  Next argument for the best loyalist legion (bar Raven Guard or Dark Angels) is what I'm gonna go with. I'm stuck between Ultramarines/Blood Angels/Salamanders/White Scars.
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Aug 6, 2021 07:06
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No. 1 Juicy Boi posted:All of the traitor Primarchs are so much more fascinating because they have such tragic backstories. Personally, I like the Iron Hands! Highly logical but secretly furious Cyber-Marines who told Bobby G to gently caress off when he tried to order them to abandon Mordian. You get a lot of vehicles and especially dreadnaughts to paint, and they're probably the most durable Marine faction out there. There's a lot to love, even if the Hands themselves refuse to acknowledge something so illogical as love in the first place!
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Aug 6, 2021 08:15
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jng2058 posted:Personally, I like the Iron Hands! Highly logical but secretly furious Cyber-Marines who told Bobby G to gently caress off when he tried to order them to abandon Mordian. You get a lot of vehicles and especially dreadnaughts to paint, and they're probably the most durable Marine faction out there. There's a lot to love, even if the Hands themselves refuse to acknowledge something so illogical as love in the first place! The Iron Hands are fascinating because of all that unrealized potential. The death of their primarch was incredibly traumatic for them and especially harmful because he himself recognized that the path the legion was on was not a healthy one at all. Ferrus was trying to work on his legion's emotional repression when he died, and his death served to catalyze an extreme reaction that undid all his work and robbed them of what they could be for ten thousand years. Their story is every bit as tragic as a lot of the traitor legions.
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Aug 6, 2021 08:56
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