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Uncle Enzo posted:Another famous person with lovely parents: Quentin Tarantino. It's reflected in his work too. In Tarantino movies mothers and fathers almost don't exist.
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Aug 9, 2021 20:34
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Which childhood trauma made him a toe-sucker?
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Aug 9, 2021 21:48
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Who What Now posted:Which childhood trauma made him a toe-sucker? Both of his parents probably hosed up his head tbh, I've read stories and wow, gently caress his horrible dad esp.
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Aug 9, 2021 21:52
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It is so drat typical that the interviewer tried to convince him to forgive his mother.
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Aug 9, 2021 22:11
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Ok so, wow. After months I've finally finished reading this thread cover to cover. As others have said, it definitely put some things into perspective. My parents are divorced, and I think my current situation with my father could be called a 'mutual' estrangement. But he definitely took some pages out of the estranged parent handbook around when I went to in college. 'If you move up here i'll give you a car', 'if you don't contact me more I'm taking you out of the will', etc. Though he never took it some of the extremes discussed in this thread, blessfully. Interestingly, in recent years he seems to have pivoted pretty hard, owing to finally marrying somebody good for him again. He even told me, of our current low/no contact relationship 'I didn't want to be like my dad and make it an obligation'. Which, by all accounts, his dad was a real piece of poo poo: drill instructor, alcoholic, brought in step family that were explicitly abusive to him. In hindsight it was big of him to even give his dad the time of day. He himself got the hell out of dodge and seemed to be quasi-estranged from his father by the sound of it (his mother died soon after his birth). My mom theorized once that growing up in such an environment might have caused him to normalize a certain ambient level of conflict, causing him to create it if none was present sometimes. Anyway, I feel the real reason he's happy with our current level of contact is probably something more along the lines of him being more comfortable with his new family. He's ND in some social ways, as am I. Without getting into too much detail I believe the wedge that was driven between us in my formative years was driven by his intense desire to have me grow up "normal" and do "normal" things. Not like, "normal" in terms of like 'cis/het', though I am, but "normal" in terms of not presenting any trace of ND affects. He had quite the fixation on my verbal pronunciation (which it turned out was perfectly normal for a kid), habits, hobbies, etc. I get what he was going for but I think he overcorrected pretty hard and would have been better off leaving well enough alone in a lot of areas. Also his second and third wives were unbelievably toxic, making visiting pretty miserable at the time. After graduation we just kind of drifted apart, emailing less and less until now it's something between yearly and quarterly and I seem to be the one who has to initiate each time. We did have a nice dinner a few years ago though. Anyway having said all this I realize this is a pretty rich thing to want in this particular thread, especially with that set up, but I don't like this current minimal level of relationship. It feels wrong to me somehow. I feel like there's the potential for some better understanding at least, now that his particularly toxic exs are not in the picture, and we're both in much better places in our life, and the more egregious points of conflict are decades old at this point and largely forgotten. Is it even possible to have a normal relationship in this kind of situation? I realize it's probably too late to have any meaningful sort of positive parental relationship, but surely something would be better than this nothing? These days our primary form of communication is sending the same $50 amazon gift card back and forth forever. Honestly I feel ridiculous for even wanting a better relationship, but it just stings somehow that he knows next to nothing about me when we talk and doesn't seem particularly interested in finding out. Am I the narcissistic one? Is it narcissistic to want your parent to care enough to reach out every now and again and not have to initiate every point of contact? Care enough to remember your job or what kinds of major projects you've been doing for fun? I don't suppose anyone has any experience with this kind of thing? Estrangement seems like a pretty hard bell to un-ring, if it's even ever advisable. E: forgot to mention he's an engineer though that probably could have been inferred Sardonik fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 22:12
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Uncle Enzo posted:Another famous person with lovely parents: Quentin Tarantino. gently caress yeah, this made me smile the whole way through (edit: except the obvious frowning at his lovely parents' words and the interviewer asking him to buy his mom a house. What, dude?). Good for him. 
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Aug 9, 2021 22:50
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Sardonik posted:Dad stuff I'm in a similar place. My parents divorced when I was 3. My dad's parents basically adopted me then. My mom spent the following decades acquiring nearly a dozen ex-husbands, while my dad did something stupid and went to jail for ten years. Dad finished college in jail, got out when I was 16, went straight, and married a doctor to whom he's been happily married ever since. But he also moved to the opposite side of the country and stayed there. Mom moved back home around the same time and we reconnected, mostly. I mean, she's still insane, but it really only hurts herself. She's not mean. And she's a genuinely good grandmother, which is all I really ask at this point. My dad's parents were terrible to my dad. They never ever let him forget all the ways he hosed up, but I loved my dad and still love my dad. We're very similar in a lot of ways. We like the same books, same music, have the same politics, etc. But I don't think he wanted to be a father, and I don't think it came naturally to him. We talk regularly over Facebook messenger but it's very much more like distant friends than father/son. I hoped that when I had a son of my own he might take more naturally to the grandpa role or see it as getting a do-over but no, he still forgets my son's birthday, doesn't send Xmas presents, doesn't ask for pictures, etc. But then he'll turn around and I'll find out he's got an investment fund setup for my son's future education. So I think he's just not a naturally parental person and doing the best he can. But I wish we had a closer relationship. Not sure how to make that happen at our age and 2,000 miles away. It is sad, though, that his last grandchild is going to be a grown man soon without ever really having a relationship with his grandfather. One thing dad has said several times when we've talked about this are things along the line of "Well it's a two way street, you don't reach out either". And I bought that for a long time. But now, being a father myself, I know that parenthood IS a one-way street. It's your job as a parent to give and give and give and give and not demand anything in return. You hope for love and friendship but you can't expect it. Your kids didn't ask to be born. So now I find that excuse kind of bullshit. I would keep reaching out to my son no matter what he did, unless he told me to gently caress off. And even then I'd probably sit by the metaphorical phone the rest of my life hoping he changed his mind. Imagined fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 00:26
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Who What Now posted:Which childhood trauma made him a toe-sucker? Do you think this is a cool thing to post, especially in this thread?
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Aug 10, 2021 04:01
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Actually, on thinking about it no, I don't. I regret posting it and apologize, it was insensitive and inappropriate. E: I can't report my own post, if you haven't please go ahead and do it for me. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 10, 2021 04:29
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I have no advice for you two, friends but... reading your posts I get the impression you know what to tell your dads. It's drafted in your head. And I don't think it's weird to want to have them care and have a closer relationship. You knew those guys when you were little and knew practically no one else. They were 50% of your world. And you surely had some good moments with them. I bet that leaves an enormous dad-shaped mark in the soul, and it's legit to try and fill it. (Sorry, it sounds silly but it's late and I am no writer. Fullfilling your psychological needs is ok and you should try? I hope I'm making my point across) Plus society really hammers the whole family thing. And I don't mean that in the teenagerish "society says it so fuuuck thaaat", but as another psychological need to be aware of and deal with. VVVVVV That sucks a lot dude. Sorry to hear. Be strong and certainly keep the crazies away. Dawncloack fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 08:11
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Welp my enabler dad has done something right for once and set up a family therapist appointment, all on his own. The therapist seems like a nice LGBTQ+-friendly lady so I look forward to my mom refusing to gender me correctly for an hour then screaming at the therapist for calling me "he". I'm an idiot and a dingus and should listen to this thread instead of doing whatever self-sabotaging bullshit I agreed to  My dad forwarded me the email he sent to the therapist. The dude went so far misgendering me that the therapist thinks I'm a trans LADY. That bad. If the therapist emails me I'll just be upfront about how this is all off the rails crazy, and that I don't really care to talk to them, and to leave me alone thank you. I'm also going to maybe stop talking to my dad, who I thought I was fixing my relationship with, but gently caress that poo poo, these people don't respect me. They're gonna be calling me a chick in front of my future kids and people I'm not out to. Someone please tattoo "STOP TALKING TO YOUR PARENTS" on my forehead before I forget, AGAIN
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Aug 10, 2021 15:34
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Lieutenant Dan posted:Someone please tattoo "STOP TALKING TO YOUR PARENTS" on my forehead before I forget, AGAIN Stop talking to your lovely parents and tell everyone including the therapist to pound sand.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:23
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indiscriminately posted:It's reflected in his work too. In Tarantino movies mothers and fathers almost don't exist. Except, you know, for the huge two part movie he made about a mom looking for her daughter.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:00
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Arrhythmia posted:Except, you know, for the huge two part movie he made about a mom looking for her daughter. Ah yes, Kill Bill, the well known tale of a mother's love. (She absolutely was not looking for her daughter, she thought she was dead. She was looking for a bunch of people to murder them)
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Aug 10, 2021 18:03
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Ah yes, Kill Bill, the well known tale of a mother's love. She wants to murder them because she loves her daughter.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:22
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The movie ends on "The Lioness has rejoined her cub, and all is right in the jungle".
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Aug 10, 2021 18:22
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She wants to murder them to avenge her daughter. She doesn't know her daughter is alive until the final confrontation with Bill.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:36
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So what you're saying is that he has a pretty hosed up mindset about mothers
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Aug 10, 2021 18:44
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His creative output suggests a conscious or subconscious indifference to filial relationships (which is fine, he can write what he likes). Almost every character is actually or effectively a childless orphan. The only exception I can think of is Harvey Keitel in From Dusk till Dawn; maybe there are others.
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Aug 10, 2021 20:44
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quote:
quote:
quote:My mother was absolutely hideous at times, controlling, judgemental and shaming but I would never have dreamed of hurting her like this, because it would have reflected so badly on me. quote:
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Aug 10, 2021 21:20
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I honestly could not follow that at all. There's something about the way these people write that comes off like it's from a bot designed to be incoherent and annoying.
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Aug 11, 2021 14:18
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I honestly could not follow that at all. There's something about the way these people write that comes off like it's from a bot designed to be incoherent and annoying. Coherence and clarity require introspection.
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Aug 11, 2021 14:36
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trickybiscuits posted:SHE WAS LITERALLY MARRYING HIM AND SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO SHARE HIM JESUS CHRIST A lot going on here. My favourite is the estranged boomer taking what was probably an innocuous comment from the DIL ("I don't share") as a statement of intent to estrange her from her son. Also this: quote:My mother was absolutely hideous at times, controlling, judgemental and shaming but I would never have dreamed of hurting her like this, because it would have reflected so badly on me.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:49
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I honestly could not follow that at all. There's something about the way these people write that comes off like it's from a bot designed to be incoherent and annoying. There's been articles written about how these rejected parents all have the same barely-coherent writing style where attempting to get even a picture of the reality requires piecing together clues, and it's obvious they're omitting every actual detail of their behaviour.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:00
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I would love to piece together the real story but it's like someone poo poo in the puzzle box and then cut off your thumbs.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:09
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I would love to piece together the real story but it's like someone poo poo in the puzzle box and then cut off your thumbs. It's due to lead poisoning, and their terminal boomer brain that won't let them type anything incriminating.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:14
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It’s not even telling a story and carefully cutting out incriminating details. It’s like telling a story AROUND the details, offering other information that makes it seem more relevant but then you’re like “wait, what the gently caress, what about [missing info]?” later on
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Aug 11, 2021 16:17
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teen witch posted:It’s not even telling a story and carefully cutting out incriminating details. It’s like telling a story AROUND the details, offering other information that makes it seem more relevant but then you’re like “wait, what the gently caress, what about [missing info]?” later on That's the only way to make it work, yes. Because usually their poo poo is so obviously bad they have to heavily obfuscate, and its turned into a habit.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:19
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They all have the exact same voice where they can perfectly recall every single thing someone else said that could ever be remotely taken as a slight, but are simply incapable of ever describing anything they ever did wrong (except performative "I loved my child too much" or "I worked too hard to provide for them" poo poo) or any instance of someone else telling them "I'm doing X because you did Y." The only word I can think to describe it is alien. I logically understand that these words come from the mind of a fellow human, but I cannot understand the process that turns their lived experiences into whatever comes out the other end.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:36
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I can see it happening in real time with my mother-in-law, though she's not nearly as bad as my own family. She can remember the time my spouse called her a hypocritical bitch when she was fifteen, but insisted she had never told my spouse that the a cappella group she'd been part of for eight years "sucks and nobody wants to hear them" even though I was standing there.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:46
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:They all have the exact same voice where they can perfectly recall every single thing someone else said that could ever be remotely taken as a slight, but are simply incapable of ever describing anything they ever did wrong (except performative "I loved my child too much" or "I worked too hard to provide for them" poo poo) or any instance of someone else telling them "I'm doing X because you did Y." The only word I can think to describe it is alien. I logically understand that these words come from the mind of a fellow human, but I cannot understand the process that turns their lived experiences into whatever comes out the other end. Yep. The best you'll ever get from them is an "I wasn't perfect!" admission. I find the writing style fascinating from a critical reading point of view. They are unreliable narrators and you can usually pick out the reality of what happened through whatever insecurities shine through in their posts ("I would've looked bad!"/"She said 'I don't share'."/"My poor grandchildren"). Pope Corky the IX posted:I can see it happening in real time with my mother-in-law, though she's not nearly as bad as my own family. She can remember the time my spouse called her a hypocritical bitch when she was fifteen, but insisted she had never told my spouse that the a cappella group she'd been part of for eight years "sucks and nobody wants to hear them" even though I was standing there. Ah the ol "anything that hurts my feelings is entombed inside my head and will be retold forever but anything I said that hurt your feelings is something you should just get over already" narcissism classic.
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Aug 11, 2021 17:04
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People tend to remember negative experiences and emotions better than positive ones. That's why I remember vividly the way my folks made me feel when they belittled me constantly as a child, but have almost no positive memories of any time before I was 15 and on my own. Although that could be for a different reason I guess lol
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Aug 11, 2021 20:52
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if you've got depression, part of what's going on is a pronounced inability to retain positive memories/experiences and a heightened emotional memory for negative experiences. we literally store and remember more of our bad memories and build our library of emotions around these memories. it becomes self-reinforcing and gets worse over time. it's why therapy (and potentially medication) is so important and why it can eventually eat people alive if left untreated. learning to break out of this is in part learning not just how to feel happiness but also building habits to be able to retain and recall how it feels to be happy, to be able to start building an emotional library of good memories. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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Aug 11, 2021 20:59
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:They all have the exact same voice where they can perfectly recall every single thing someone else said that could ever be remotely taken as a slight, but are simply incapable of ever describing anything they ever did wrong (except performative "I loved my child too much" or "I worked too hard to provide for them" poo poo) or any instance of someone else telling them "I'm doing X because you did Y." The only word I can think to describe it is alien. I logically understand that these words come from the mind of a fellow human, but I cannot understand the process that turns their lived experiences into whatever comes out the other end. I started thinking of them as lizards. They can perform the basic functions of life like eat and reproduce, but are completely incapable of the standard mammal drives like "caring for the young", and "trusting the people around you" According to my therapist that's supposed to make me feel sorry for them, but they fall into the same category as drunk drivers, IMO. Regardless of whatever terrible tragedy got them to this point, their current behaviour is unacceptable.
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Aug 11, 2021 22:08
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You can find their behavior unacceptable and still feel sorry for them. I'm of the view that the circuitous, dishonest storytelling and constant self-pity is not willful, for the most part. It's an aspect of pathology. Like it might be willful sometimes, or even all of the time -- and of course this varies across people -- but I can see how much of any person's thinking & behavior is involuntary just by examining the workings of my own mind. If you're a little neurotic and have picked up some patterns of self-reflection then you can grow in helpful ways as you move through life. But I think many/most of these people are doomed to be who they are.
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Aug 11, 2021 22:24
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indiscriminately posted:You can find their behavior unacceptable and still feel sorry for them. Yeah, I agree. Some people are hopelessly broken. They don't just have lousy software, some of their hardware is hosed up too. Their brain meat don't work good, and they are incapable of perceiving the problem much less attempting to repair it. That is sad. At the same time you have to protect yourself from them. It wasn't Old Yeller's fault that he had rabies and was a danger to everyone around him, but he still needed a bullet not a hug.
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Aug 11, 2021 23:27
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I honestly could not follow that at all. There's something about the way these people write that comes off like it's from a bot designed to be incoherent and annoying. Some grandparents also share that they do things like write letters and keep scrapbooks to give to their grandchildren when they're adults and that seems pretty weird as well. I would be very creeped out by someone whose attitude toward me was basically "I've been having a one-sided relationship with you your whole life without you knowing, now play into that with me." Zulily Zoetrope posted:They all have the exact same voice where they can perfectly recall every single thing someone else said that could ever be remotely taken as a slight, but are simply incapable of ever describing anything they ever did wrong (except performative "I loved my child too much" or "I worked too hard to provide for them" poo poo) or any instance of someone else telling them "I'm doing X because you did Y." The only word I can think to describe it is alien. I logically understand that these words come from the mind of a fellow human, but I cannot understand the process that turns their lived experiences into whatever comes out the other end. Years ago I was trying to write a murder mystery with an unreliable narrator, but couldn't get the character's voice right. What I was looking for was the sort of thing on estranged parents' forums. Of course, by the time I'd found Issendai.com I'd given up on the murder mystery idea. But recently I wrote a short story and used this information to help write the terrible, selfish, disgusting narrator. So that's something.
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Aug 11, 2021 23:28
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There's something exhausting about the way they write, maybe because they rarely use punctuation within a sentence like commas or semicolons. Every sentence then just becomes this long, stilted drone of self-justification.
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Aug 12, 2021 00:12
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If you're a functioning human being with critical thinking skills it's just exhausting to read all the reams of material they leave unwritten between the lines. Psychopathic jazz: it's the words they don't say.
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Aug 12, 2021 00:30
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Facebook Aunt posted:Yeah, I agree. Some people are hopelessly broken. They don't just have lousy software, some of their hardware is hosed up too. Their brain meat don't work good, and they are incapable of perceiving the problem much less attempting to repair it. That is sad. That last part is something my former psychotherapist used to say to me a lot in relation to my parents: Just because you understand why the lioness is upset doesn’t mean it’s safe to get into the enclosure with her. She’s still going to rip your loving neck out.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:27
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