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CottonWolf posted:I just looked at the trickster tricks and some of they are ridiculous. I really want to play some kind of skill monkey now, just to break things with all the dumb tricks.
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Aug 31, 2021 03:42
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Cross-posting from the Infinity Engine thread: I'm extremely excited for Wrath of the Righteous. I played and liked Kingmaker after it had been thoroughly patched and love the game in turn based mode. However, I'd rate Kingmaker a substantial notch below Pillars of Eternity and Original Sin 2, it's nearest competitors. I thought Pillars beat Kingmaker in story and writing, and possibly character builds as well--its hard to say because I really dislike real time with pause combat and the character system is so tied to combat. I also thought Original Sin 2 had much better combat, perhaps because it wasn't tied to the quirks of the Pathfinder system. With that said, I had some questions on Wrath of the Righteous: 1. I thought Kingmaker was lackluster compared to its competitors in terms of reactivity. I love it when games respond to your quest resolution decisions, offer multiple decisions, and have lines based on your class/race/prior decisions. Kingmaker had some of this and was better than Baldur's Gate, but paled in comparison to PoE and other Obsidian games. Has this been improved? 2. Setting aside the quirks of Pathfinder, Kingmaker wasn't well balanced, or wasn't balanced for fun. Enemy stats seemed unreasonably high and the penultimate was notorious for throwing every possible cheap trick at players. This seemed to be a deliberate design choice rather than growing pains. How is Wrath of the Righteous about this? 3. The setting seems really uninteresting. A massive war zone with a demon invasion? Seems like something a middle schooler would draw in their school binder. Or a set up for a straight up dungeon crawler--which has it place, but I'm hoping for something with more emphasis on exploration and non-combat elements. How are those elements? Particulary, how is the exploration? In Kingmaker, there was a lot, but I thought it was lackluster--lots of small, empty maps with boring loot.
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Aug 31, 2021 04:03
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Based on your post if your idea of reactivity is random npcs going "woah cool horns" then sure that's increased tenfold. Kingmaker's reactivity blew both PoE games away and it's not even close however
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Aug 31, 2021 04:20
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Not sure on 1 but I can help with the othersprometheusbound2 posted:2. Setting aside the quirks of Pathfinder, Kingmaker wasn't well balanced, or wasn't balanced for fun. Enemy stats seemed unreasonably high and the penultimate was notorious for throwing every possible cheap trick at players. This seemed to be a deliberate design choice rather than growing pains. How is Wrath of the Righteous about this? prometheusbound2 posted:3. The setting seems really uninteresting. A massive war zone with a demon invasion? Seems like something a middle schooler would draw in their school binder. Or a set up for a straight up dungeon crawler--which has it place, but I'm hoping for something with more emphasis on exploration and non-combat elements. How are those elements? Particulary, how is the exploration? In Kingmaker, there was a lot, but I thought it was lackluster--lots of small, empty maps with boring loot.
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Aug 31, 2021 04:28
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ha, i just went back to bald hill and obliterated those elfy fucks, thanks thread. i did cheat in blind fight for my smilodon, but apart from that it was just being more prepared and focusing the head guy.
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Aug 31, 2021 05:11
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WotR has inspired me to finally get around to installing Kingmaker How balanced is the game for turn-based since it was originally designed for RTwP? Do fights becomes substantially long in turn based? What's the most OP class I can make in order to zip through things quicker? Some sort of caster class?
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Aug 31, 2021 05:26
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Sylvan sorcerer with smilodon companion, grease, and the pit spells.
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Aug 31, 2021 05:45
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Lord Koth posted:I mean, technically you could be a Fighter, who get plenty of feats, and then just ride Seelah's animal companion instead. Unless the game locks you to only riding your own, you don't actually have to be an animal companion class to effectively play a mounted character. Alternatively sacrifice some of your personal mounted combat prowess, and just use one of the various 3/4 BAB spellcasting classes that get mounts. This gets you Share Spells to toss whatever you feel like on your animal companion to help keep it alive. I'll change the OP:
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Aug 31, 2021 06:20
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:WotR has inspired me to finally get around to installing Kingmaker Turn based is definitely easier, but it's a hard game. if you're even vaguely well set up you'll be breezing through fights in the midgame on RTWP, then buckling down with turn based for the tricky ones. Fight length is fine, you're either gonna win or lose reasonably fast and if it's a forgone conclusion either way you just take it off turnbased.
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Aug 31, 2021 06:21
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Hey Seb, sent you a PM to get the title updated, and updated the OP at least to start.
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Aug 31, 2021 06:32
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:WotR has inspired me to finally get around to installing Kingmaker You can toggle it like stealth mode. I've literally switched between RTwP and Turn Based mid combat to both fix a glitch and to just speed up wiping mobs. If you want insane OP builds check this out https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1 Probably best to follow the companion guides too in order to maximize their potential. But playing as a caster going hard on CC spells like sleep, stinking cloud, etc. is the easy mode. Kineticst with deadly earth is just a cheat mode.
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Aug 31, 2021 06:34
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SirFozzie posted:Hey Seb, sent you a PM to get the title updated, and updated the OP at least to start. cheers, it's no prob to change it back if someone makes another thread but it makes sense to keep it all in here too.
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Aug 31, 2021 06:35
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pentyne posted:You can toggle it like stealth mode. I've literally switched between RTwP and Turn Based mid combat to both fix a glitch and to just speed up wiping mobs. yeah, single classed characters are generally very competent if you do sensible things with their stats and equipment.
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Aug 31, 2021 06:37
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pentyne posted:You can toggle it like stealth mode. I've literally switched between RTwP and Turn Based mid combat to both fix a glitch and to just speed up wiping mobs. this guy is also sponsored by Neoseeker and all of his builds and advice can be found there, among other's: https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/guides/Builds he's currently working on a similar guide for wrath of the righteous. worth noting that he seems to have a reputation for being a little hidebound in his opinions and doesn't give a scrap for "flavor" or anything besides minmax effectiveness. can affirm that his builds are legit though Buck Wildman fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 06:42
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he's p remarkably diligent on updating his builds with balance changes and the like too
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Aug 31, 2021 06:44
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quote is not edit
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Aug 31, 2021 06:58
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Thinking maybe add something a little more streamlined to the OP for people checking it out now. I'm not up on Wrath to much beyond watching videos and reading this thread so someone else would have to make a decent OP. Hey I’ve heard about a Pathfinder game before this, what was that?  The previous Owlcat game was Pathfinder: Kingmaker. What you’ve heard was probably that it was released in such a broken and buggy state as to be unbeatable for several months. Once it was fixed, you might’ve heard it was full of save of die traps and impossible encounters that expected you to min-max your characters to hell and back. If not that, then that the game would punish you 20 hours later for a bad decision and cause you to lose the game out of nowhere. So, yeah, those things were true for a bit, but it’s not the state of things anymore. Let me quickly address that  State of the game: Yes, there are some bugs still present, but by and large the game is feature complete and playable with little issue. Keep back-up saves just in case Game Traps: There are a small number of sections where you get a new mechanic sprung on you that is extremely hard for your level and the context. Unfortunately, some of those will happen in the first few hours of play. There are easy workarounds and after that it rarely ever happens again in game. Mix-Max Characters: Sort of, not really. You really need to be build your characters to specialized in something. Defense, DPS, Casting nukes, Casting control spells, etc. You also have the freedom to take classes levels however you wish, meaning if you want a sorcerer with 4 levels of barbarian, 2 thief, and 4 cleric, you can do that. The end result is going to be a unplayable mess, but it’s still possible. In general, any pure class built with a purpose in mind will be able to handle the game at normal without too much hassle. Unforeseen Game ending consequences: This is heavily tied into kingdom mode that most people agree should be played on the easiest setting. There are some simple strategies to never worry about those problems. So, yes the game has issues. Also yes, they are very easily managed, especially with the Bag of Tricks, a mod/cheat program with a clean UI that works to streamline and eliminate 99% of those game problems. Why play this game?  Personally, there’s nothing like it. It’s the first modern crpg that captures that feeling over going from level 1 to godhood over the course of 50-100 hours. There’s incredible flexibility once you dig into the game systems and learn the tricks and exploits for powers and abilities. The UI for combat and casting is crisp and extremely easy to use and switch around to suit your playstyle. It’s an engaging saga of going from a random adventurer to conquering your own Kingdom and creating an empire.
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Aug 31, 2021 07:04
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pentyne posted:Thinking maybe add something a little more streamlined to the OP for people checking it out now. I'm not up on Wrath to much beyond watching videos and reading this thread so someone else would have to make a decent OP. Yoinked! Thanks
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Aug 31, 2021 07:10
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 Welcome to Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous is the latest from Owlcat, crazy Russian devs who came from nowhere with Pathfinder Kingmaker a few years ago and put themselves on the scene as serious competition for making the best crpgs on the market. Kind of. It’s complicated given their games were Kickstarter successes with all the good and bad that go with it. Anyways, back to the new game Wrath of the Righteous is based on the Paizo adventure path of the same name. It’s not a sequel to Kingmaker and requires no prior experience beyond some understanding of how the Pathfinder system works. It’s the classic, roll a d20, ttrpg style game, where your goal is to be making your numbers go up in a way where you can crush your enemies numbers. Let’s take a look at the official material, taken from Owlcat themselves quote:The realm of Sarkoris was destroyed when Areelu Vorlesh, a scholar and practitioner of forbidden magics, opened a rift to the abyssal planes of existence, and hordes of demons invaded Golarion. Led by the evil Demon Lords Deskari and Baphomet, the abyssal forces crushed all who stood against them, turning Sarkoris into a demon-infested land now known as the Worldwound. It fell to the neighboring nations to assemble an army capable of withstanding the demonic assault to protect the world from the flames. Thus the Crusades began. Facing the impossible, the name of the game is flexibility and choice. To make a character, you get Races: Aasimar, Dhampir, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human, Kitsune, Oread, Tiefling. Some of those races have a selection of “heritage” that will affect their starting abilities. Base Classes:  For each class, 5-6 archetypes, each with their own flavor and unique features. Some are restricted by race, but most are not. In addition to the base classes, you also have prestige classes, which are usually the result of multi-classing or a certain specialization that introduces extra powers and skills you can’t otherwise get. All this? This is just to start the game. Then the real choices begin. Wrath of the Righteous introduces two new systems, the Mythic Path and the Crusade system, as part of your game experience. Mythic Paths  After you start the game, a series of events ends up bestowing you with mythic powers granting you god-like abilities and new character customization potential. Mythic paths are the defining feature of the game, as you choose your path it will have effects on how the story plays out and how you progress with your crusade. The 6 main mythic paths are Angel: The Angel is a mighty champion of good, leading the Crusade by example. They move across the battlefield on their mighty wings, smiting the demons with a sword of holy flame. Those who are fighting alongside the Angel are certain that they will be protected and healed—and even resurrected in the case of their untimely demise. In times of dire need the Angel can ask Heaven for help and celestial allies will join them in battle Azata: When a war has been raging for over a hundred years such as the crusades have, one must be ready to make unexpected moves to achieve victory. Some may claim that Azatas act first and think later, but tell that to the demon hordes, trampled and fleeing in terror from this unstoppable force for good. The Azata trust their instincts and makes spontaneous decisions. They easily befriend those who don't fit well into even rows of the "official" crusade, and inspire their allies to fight rather than command them to do so. That makes Azatas the heroes these demon-ravaged lands so dearly need. Aeon: The Aeon is a cosmic judge of balance—Judge Dredd meets Merlin on a cosmic scale. They can sense where the balance is broken and fix it, often punishing the perpetrator in the process. The cool thing about the Aeon is that they can detect places where the balance was greatly disturbed in the past and travel back in time to fix it. In doing so, they can change their current timeline, usually for the better. Trickster: The Trickster is a Loki-type character. They are here to have fun and play jokes on even the mightiest creatures. One of their late-game abilities is an understanding that their fate is determined by random chance, like the roll of a die of destiny. Armed with such knowledge, the Trickster can manipulate those die rolls in their favor. Every time the system rolls a natural 1 for them, the Trickster changes it into a natural 20. And players will be able to see it happening before their eyes. Lich: The Lich is an immortal creature, commanding their own army of undead. Even the mightiest adversaries the Lich defeats can be raised as slaves under the Lich’s command. Eventually, this master of undeath and necromancy can even replace their mortal companions with powerful undead minions they create. They master the art of magic—especially necromancy—and wield an armament of unique and especially powerful spells like death realm. The other 4 are late change mythic paths that you may be able to change to that take it to even further extremes. The Crusade System  No war of conquest can happening without armies, and this is the way you march across the land sieging enemy fortress and conquering land. As of writing this, the Crusade system in the beta has been spotty at best, and no one is expecting great things on release. It features a auto-win mode where instead of having to engage in the game system to progress the main story you’ll automatically conquer the area/region/city of interest when you need to. This also ties in heavily to the mythic path, as the chosen path will determine what kind of troops you can field. Allegedly, the Trickster will get so weird that you can recruit munchkin npcs based on designs sent in by fans. Check back in with the thread a few days/weeks/months post release for the most accurate take on the game. Hopes are high but Pathfinder Kingmaker didn't really reach the state it's currently in for the better part of a year post release.
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Aug 31, 2021 07:55
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Think I'm starting to understand how oracles work so battle oracle angel it is... weapon wise I'm considering glaive or longspear to be poking from behind the tanks, or maybe a great sword for style and to take advantage of the extra bite attack if I go wolf scarred... Mythic wise looks like dipping into nature later on for the CHA to AC and a pet might be fun...
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Aug 31, 2021 08:46
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Missing Demon from the paths list.
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Aug 31, 2021 08:46
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pentyne posted:
And Fozzie pulls off the rare DOUBLE YOINK! (thanks, appreciated)
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Aug 31, 2021 09:31
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For people that have played the beta, how prevalent and annoying are traps? I see that the only rogue companion lacks trapfinding if it follows the PnP rules.
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Aug 31, 2021 09:52
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Razakai posted:For people that have played the beta, how prevalent and annoying are traps? I see that the only rogue companion lacks trapfinding if it follows the PnP rules. You just need people with good perception to spot them and good trickery to disarm them. Perception and trickery have tons of other uses, so you keep companionse who are good at it at all times. Especially perception, the one skill you want multiple people having it .
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Aug 31, 2021 10:10
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Did it without breaking it!
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Aug 31, 2021 10:23
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Just wanted to confirm the details from the last few pages about WotR - the cavalier class is in, mounted combat is in, but spears take the place of lances (meaning they do double damage when used on a charge). Is Spirited Charge (the feat, deals double damage when charging on a mount, stacks with lances/spears) also in? Can you actually play a mounted charge character for once in a 3e/PF CRPG? That is incredibly exciting.
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Aug 31, 2021 10:28
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Arivia posted:Just wanted to confirm the details from the last few pages about WotR - the cavalier class is in, mounted combat is in, but spears take the place of lances (meaning they do double damage when used on a charge). Is Spirited Charge (the feat, deals double damage when charging on a mount, stacks with lances/spears) also in? Can you actually play a mounted charge character for once in a 3e/PF CRPG? That is incredibly exciting. Yes to pretty much all of this. The min-maxers are a little down on Cavalier still (you still need to charge in and out of combat a lot, which is slightly ~slower~ than getting stuck in) but everything's in and all the mechanics work. And yes, you can play as DINOSAUR CAVALRY. Razakai posted:For people that have played the beta, how prevalent and annoying are traps? I see that the only rogue companion lacks trapfinding if it follows the PnP rules. They made sure Woljif is still good at trapfinding, though trapfinding is just perception in Owlcat-finder. The skill system is a fair bit simpler than in PnP. Traps are usually prevalent, but getting someone who can deal with them, especially in a six man party, isn't too hard. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 10:52
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So I understand in one of the last beta updates they changed it so that mythic path alignment shifts don’t turn off class features from alignment locked classes. Question is can you keep taking levels IE an Azata Paladin.
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Aug 31, 2021 11:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:So I understand in one of the last beta updates they changed it so that mythic path alignment shifts don’t turn off class features from alignment locked classes. Question is can you keep taking levels IE an Azata Paladin. I've been asking this too, and it sounds like the current belief is that it doesn't allow you to take levels, but you do keep the abilities from levels you have gained. It's still unclear, though, and we'll have to wait for the 2nd to see for sure.
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Aug 31, 2021 11:16
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SpaceDrake posted:They made sure Woljif is still good at trapfinding, though trapfinding is just perception in Owlcat-finder. The skill system is a fair bit simpler than in PnP. Trapfinding is a weird special ability that rogues and related classes get in pen and paper Pathfinder that means they can find and disarm traps others can't. (So it's not a skill, it's an addition to the usual Perception and disarm skill stuff.) It's not in Kingmaker (if it was Kingmaker's archaeologist bard would have had it), and I wouldn't expect it to be in WotR. e: that is to say, you're right but when a person coming from pen and paper Pathfinder asks about trapfinding they mean a specific thing that "the NPC has great Perception" doesn't cover, so I'm attempting to clarify and help out. e2: and if you're wondering why the gently caress it is a thing, it's basically how the 3e/PF pen and paper games kept the dedicated trap finding character as a necessary party role. Calling it trapfinding is a clarification of the even weirder wording of it in 3e where it is literally "you can find and disarm traps as if you were a rogue of your level" except it actually doesn't give you any skill points in Search or Disable Device. Arivia fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 11:27
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Just thought of a cool character concept: a Lawful Evil Monk using the secret mythic path. Basically the theme is "Temptation" and willpower to test it. man I wish I could play this at the table (and not the og adventure path)
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Aug 31, 2021 13:27
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Yeah the pathfinder trapfinding mechanic where stuff over a specific perception required a distinct class ability is the sort of bad design that paizo itself had to fix via traits for trap heavy aps.
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Aug 31, 2021 14:21
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There we go, pre-ordered and pre-installed the game. We'll find out on Thursday whether it'll actually run or it'll be a quick refund from Steam and a long wait for the console version.
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Aug 31, 2021 15:51
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AMA with the devs for Wrath in one hour here - https://www.reddit.com/r/OwlcatGames/ I'll do a write-up a few hours in of the main bits if no one else gets around to it
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Aug 31, 2021 17:07
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For the Gold Dragon path mechanics: I feel like there's fun to be had with the sudden increase in BaB. It'd take a loooong time to get there, but someone going (sneak attack class) 1/Wizard 9/Arcane Trickster 10 or something will go from being a backline spellcaster to "turns into a dragon with full BaB" or just buffing to hell and back and going into melee. Ranged or melee full progression spellcaster with high basic attack bonus and sneak attack, plus whatever other nonsense the path will eventually have that we haven't seen. With the "choose any feat" thing, if there's a respec, it'd give you some interesting avenues, although that's gonna still gonna be feat starved to heck and back. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 17:14
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DourCricket posted:AMA with the devs for Wrath in one hour here - At work all day and won't be able to keep up but would love that.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:18
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DourCricket posted:AMA with the devs for Wrath in one hour here - Curious if they'll give detail about the last acts or the other mythics. They really kept the secret romance in KM close to the chest for as long as they could.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:59
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AMA Part 1 - 2pm EST~ . For brevity, I will be summarizing questions and answers that are longer than a sentence or two. Questions in BOLD
There are also several "fan-answered" questions I see but I'm passing on those. Also some more 80's Action Move bad guy lingo questions I can't be assed to translate. Will come back for more in an hour or two. Part 2:
DourCricket fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 19:11
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quote:Скажите, сколько будет весить патч?) ---- quote:Tell me, how much will the patch weigh?)
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Aug 31, 2021 20:04
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Bah they won't talk about what paths and classes they considered but didn't add, because they don't want people to be upset or think they might be coming in the DLC.
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Aug 31, 2021 20:09
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