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https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1432825970403205124 https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1432830993770041346 https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1432831136506396680 Fully Automated Space Racism, here only at Tesla.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:19
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i want to be in the timeline where all these muskrats and tech bros with racist cams see the black void of space and reverse at hypersonic speed into the ground.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:24
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BiggerBoat posted:It seems stupid that I should buy a whole new oven after 5 years (I also replaced the fridge I bought during this period) instead of just dealing with a part or a loose wire but what do I know? I even went with the old school coil burners because I know if one of those poo poo the bed, I'd rather scope out a salvage yard than replace an entire CPU motherboard. The prices for some of these appliances I saw while browsing were stunning. Well, I may have outsmarted myself and been cock blocked by tech yet again. I bought this no frills, old school coil burner oven and it's taken me a half hour now to fry a pound of bacon. Wanna know why? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aQBkd1guoU https://www.reddit.com/r/Appliances/comments/bbgmi2/sensi_temp_coil_burner_is_messing_with_my_cooking/ The loving things have a little spring sensor thing in the center of the burner that I didn't even notice until I put a pan on it to make a grilled cheese. Not only does it make the pan tilt if it's too small, it shuts the loving burner off if it decides you are cooking on too a high temperature. The stove shuts off when it decides it's too hot. Or if your pan is not perfectly flat, according to some GE Youtube videos. So of course it's the pan's fault. Or something. Motherfucker than just don't have a high setting or whatever. It's the stove top range equivalent of a NASCAR restrictor plate, supposedly part of some new UL standard/regulation loving unreal. THis is going to make trying things somewhat tough. It's like buying a charcoal grill that suffocates the air flow if it thinks your flame is too high.
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Sep 1, 2021 19:45
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When you open your new stove's manual, does it have this picture:
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Sep 2, 2021 11:33
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The next stove I am buying is gonna look like this.
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Sep 2, 2021 11:37
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Man, I’m glad the last time I needed a stove, at my GF’s house, I found one on Facebook Marketplace for $40 that was in good shape, the people remodeled their kitchen and didn’t need it. It was gas, though.
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Sep 2, 2021 12:08
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JnnyThndrs posted:Man, I’m glad the last time I needed a stove, at my GF’s house, I found one on Facebook Marketplace for $40 that was in good shape, the people remodeled their kitchen and didn’t need it. It was gas, though. I wanted to go that route and find an estate sale or something but was pressed for time and have no way to haul something that big around. Megillah Gorilla posted:When you open your new stove's manual, does it have this picture: LOL Seriously, though, you can't even boil pasta in an uncovered pot if it has these sensor things on the coil. After my bacon incident and then reading about it, I tested it out and put a medium sized pot of water on it. It boiled for about 2 minutes before shutting off/turning itself down and went into simmer mode for a good 2 or 3 more until it decided that I was, in fact, a big enough boy to cook using actual heat. Any recipe requiring a rolling boil or high heat like a stir fry seems literally impossible. I don't know how you'd make anything you needed to caramelize something with using it - or even rice now that I think about it. I make fudge every christmas and need to have a rolling boil for 10 minutes. I probably should have done a little more due diligence but it never dawned on me in a million years that I'd have to check and make sure my stove stayed hot when I set the fucker to high. It's a fairly recent UL regulation to minimize the risk of fires - which is fair enough - but not being able to COOK things properly sort of defeats the point. Just put a timer on it with an alarm to make sure it's being attended or something. I was able to buy some replacement burners but those will be phased out soon apparently. They work great but that set me back another $130.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:08
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JnnyThndrs posted:Man, I’m glad the last time I needed a stove, at my GF’s house, I found one on Facebook Marketplace for $40 that was in good shape, the people remodeled their kitchen and didn’t need it. It was gas, though. Gas is good. All ranges should use gas.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:23
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karthun posted:Gas is good. All ranges should use gas. I'm going to induction when I outfit a trailer, so I can run the entire thing off solar etc. Propane is a pain.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:26
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Natural Gas will eventually need to go away, it in and of itself is a tech nightmare as its the new "Clean Coal"
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Sep 2, 2021 15:27
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VideoGameVet posted:I'm going to induction when I outfit a trailer, so I can run the entire thing off solar etc. I was thinking about getting an induction stove when my current 20 year old gas range dies. Gotta get rid of gas if I can. I have yet to see one in person and don't know anyone who has one. Are they as good as gas?
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Sep 2, 2021 15:28
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I was thinking about getting an induction stove when my current 20 year old gas range dies. Gotta get rid of gas if I can. They are and they aren't. They are safer BUT you have to use pans/pots that can work with them, you can use some sort of cast iron plate thing if you're heating up some glassware etc. They do have fine control and heat up faster than normal electric stoves and they are pretty efficient. Basically I'm thinking things will get worse and I want to be setup to deal with shortages etc.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:33
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i also want induction , but Biggerboats posts make me think the current market has a bunch of over engineered """"""""""""smart""""""""" ovens. hope the market changes in a few years.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:34
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Electric ranges/stoves and heating aren't a viable option for me because of the age of my house and quality of power coming to it.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:39
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VideoGameVet posted:I'm going to induction when I outfit a trailer, so I can run the entire thing off solar etc. I have a camper that is mostly 12v but I still have a propane range I use outside with a separate 20lb propane pig. Internal stove that is never used is propane and the furnace is propane. Don't know if I would want to calculate the solar, battery, and inverter requirements for 48 hours off grid. If you always have 120@30amp go for it.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:40
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I was thinking about getting an induction stove when my current 20 year old gas range dies. Gotta get rid of gas if I can. That's the deal-breaker for me. If your existing pots will work fine, that's a different matter.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:41
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karthun posted:I have a camper that is mostly 12v but I still have a propane range I use outside with a separate 20lb propane pig. Internal stove that is never used is propane and the furnace is propane. Don't know if I would want to calculate the solar, battery, and inverter requirements for 48 hours off grid. If you always have 120@30amp go for it. This is a somewhat nutty idea but in a few years I plan on buying a F150 Electric and then outfit a trailer with solar (for the trailer) and some decent LiOn batteries. The truck's AC as a backup. The commercial version of that truck isn't too pricy and the towing capacity is impressive. We literally don't think any place will escape climate chaos so we want to be mobile. Yeah, nutty.
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Sep 2, 2021 15:43
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I was thinking about getting an induction stove when my current 20 year old gas range dies. Gotta get rid of gas if I can. I've used them and they work great. If I were able to get one I would (my apartment complex only allows gas due to an old electrical grid). They heat everything quickly, particularly water, and yet are almost deceptively safe (it's easy to forget that while the range is cool to touch, the pot is super hot). I think folks worry a bit too much about replacing all their kitchenware, since most of the good ones are induction compatible anyway. But there's an easy way to test: Stick a fridge magnet onto the bottom of all your pots and pans - if they are magnetic then they'll work with an induction range. Similarly, people worry about scratching the surface of the stove, but they're basically the same glass material as standard electric stoves and they won't scratch unless you're really treating them like poo poo. As long as you aren't grinding your pans into the stove then you'll be fine (to be fair, some folks do love to shake their pans back and forth rather than stirring, but there's absolutely no need to do that). Induction is clearly the way forward. They work great and are certainly the most environmentally responsible. For me the health impact is probably the biggest thing though. Burning unventilated fossil fuels in an indoor environment clearly is a health risk, and one that people are increasingly aware of. I think that future generations are really going to roll their eyes at how many of our current "mysterious health ailments" are connected to poor air quality and ubiquitous fossil fuel usage. It'll be like how current generations look back at all the olds filling their houses with lead and asbestos. Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 15:44
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I think part of the problem with getting people to switch to induction is that it's not exceptionally well marketed, and standard electric stoves are just so drat terrible and hard to use compared to gas. If you actually do your research and talk to people who are both good and passionate about cooking, the reviews of induction are quite good, but you don't hear that stuff unless you look for it and until I looked that stuff up, I assumed it was a slightly more efficient version of a standard electric cooktop with all the drawbacks (poor heat control, etc.). Half of the issue with these tech nightmares is you have Disruptors crowing on about impossibilities or how they've re-invented a thing that already exists, but actually innovations aren't marketed at all well.
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Sep 2, 2021 16:19
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Kaal posted:As long as you aren't grinding your pans into the stove then you'll be fine (to be fair, some folks do love to shake their pans back and forth rather than stirring, but there's absolutely no need to do that). This is absolutely, positively a personal thing. If you have a ceramic tagine, it won't work. (Our current tagine has an enameled iron bottom, so would be fine.) If you have a Korean ttukbaegi, it won't work. If you have nonstick aluminum pans (Silverstone, for instance) they won't work. If you have aluminum stockpots ... Induction wouldn't work for me. There are a lot of people it would work great for, but it's not a universal tool.
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Sep 2, 2021 16:35
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Arsenic Lupin posted:How do you flip an omelet? Use a spatula like a pleb quote:This is absolutely, positively a personal thing. If you have a ceramic tagine, it won't work. (Our current tagine has an enameled iron bottom, so would be fine.) If you have a Korean ttukbaegi, it won't work. If you have nonstick aluminum pans (Silverstone, for instance) they won't work. If you have aluminum stockpots ... Using any non-magnetic pot or pan is very doable, you just place a magnetic sheet (like an iron griddle) atop the induction surface. The griddle heats up, which heats up your ceramic. Non-stick aluminum can be used the same way, and manufacturers are lining their newer aluminum products with magnetic material in order to maintain capability with induction technology. I'm not going to judge folks for using fossil gas (I mean I am currently looking at buying a fossil gas range because I'm not allowed to use electric or induction) but induction technology is mature and works really well.
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Sep 2, 2021 17:25
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Yeah I should caveat: I'm a hypocrite that uses a gas range and gas water heater, but that's how the house came. I still think they need to go.
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Sep 2, 2021 17:31
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah I should caveat: I'm a hypocrite that uses a gas range and gas water heater, but that's how the house came. I still think they need to go. Yeah agreed. There's a lot of reasons that people need to continue being able to use fossil fuels in their houses rather than just outright banning them. I'm always reminded of when I heard a speech from a mayor in Eugene who wanted to ban wood-fired heating, only to discover that 25% of housing relied upon it. But it seems pretty clear to me that there are very good health and environmental reasons for pushing to bring in electric devices wherever possible. If that means we have to sacrifice flipping our omelets like a cool guy, then that's a sacrifice we should be willing to make. Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 17:40
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Kaal posted:Yeah agreed. There's a lot of reasons that people need to continue being able to use fossil fuels in their houses rather than just outright banning them. I'm always reminded of when I heard a speech from a mayor in Eugene who wanted to ban wood-fired heating, only to discover that 25% of housing relied upon it. But it seems pretty clear to me that there are very good health and environmental reasons for pushing to bring in electric devices wherever possible. If that means we have to sacrifice flipping our omelets like a cool guy, then that's a sacrifice we should be willing to make. I suspect home use of Natural Gas, much like Industry use of Oil in products other than fossil fuels, will continue even if we banish it from its major footprints of transit and electricity generation.
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Sep 2, 2021 17:46
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Glad to see these replies tbh. I thought I was gonna get dog piled and made fun of for my oven adventure and lack of knowledge about things but it's been the weirdest god damned thing. When my grandma died I inherited her house and we modernized and refurbished everything, especially the kitchen. It honestly needed it but so far out of the three major appliances we replaced (stove, fridge, dishwasher) the dishwasher is the only thing left standing. So I assume that'll be next. Oh, wait, the convection oven is still working well. The refrigerator and the stove both poo poo the bed because of all the computer bullshit no one really needs and I had a guy come out to fix the fridge 3x. This was all done/replaced in 2015 with brand new (expensive) stuff. The old washer and dryer she had is still humming.
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Sep 2, 2021 17:51
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I had a glass cooktop over electric coils and it scratched very easily and was a pain to clean. I don't know what purpose it served over having exposed coils. In principle I guess it's supposed to give you a larger, flatter area to cook on, except it wasn't actually very level and made less contact than coils would have. Some electrical part in it failed after maybe 4 years and my landlord had to replace the entire cooktop because they don't do repairs (Bosch brand, in case it matters). I don't think anything about it was smart so stupid design is far from unique to smart poo poo.
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Sep 2, 2021 17:55
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Kaal posted:Using any non-magnetic pot or pan is very doable, you just place a magnetic sheet (like an iron griddle) atop the induction surface. The griddle heats up, which heats up your ceramic.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:13
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CommieGIR posted:I suspect home use of Natural Gas, much like Industry use of Oil in products other than fossil fuels, will continue even if we banish it from its major footprints of transit and electricity generation. Our house came with a beautiful gas range and stove preinstalled and I wish it didn't because there's been some recent research iirc linking gas appliances leading to long term poor health outcomes, particularly in children but also long term breathing issues for some adults over time. Guess I'll enjoy the loveliness of cooking on it for now and hope I don't develop some terrible lung issue down the line.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:18
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BiggerBoat posted:Glad to see these replies tbh. I thought I was gonna get dog piled and made fun of for my oven adventure and lack of knowledge about things but it's been the weirdest god damned thing. That's the thing, if you want induction you need all of the computer crap to run the PWM.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:25
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Professor Beetus posted:Our house came with a beautiful gas range and stove preinstalled and I wish it didn't because there's been some recent research iirc linking gas appliances leading to long term poor health outcomes, particularly in children but also long term breathing issues for some adults over time. Guess I'll enjoy the loveliness of cooking on it for now and hope I don't develop some terrible lung issue down the line. Every study like that I've seen is kinda dubious, and it also applies only to not having appropriate venting. If you have a gas stove you should have a real vent hood that is exhausted to the outside over top of it. And you should use it while cooking. All the time.
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Sep 2, 2021 18:28
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eXXon posted:I had a glass cooktop over electric coils and it scratched very easily and was a pain to clean. I don't know what purpose it served over having exposed coils. In principle I guess it's supposed to give you a larger, flatter area to cook on, except it wasn't actually very level and made less contact than coils would have. Some electrical part in it failed after maybe 4 years and my landlord had to replace the entire cooktop because they don't do repairs (Bosch brand, in case it matters). I don't think anything about it was smart so stupid design is far from unique to smart poo poo. I think ostensibly it's to make it easier to clean, which makes sense, and you don't have to put tin foil over your burner cups or whatever but my glass top was as dirty and as hard to clean or not scratch as any other stove I owned. I was excited to get one precisely because I wouldn't have to dig out food particles from the burner cups and it makes logistical sense until you realize and learn all the other bullshit involved with cleaning them (Special cleaners, tools and sponges. Cracks and scratches) Stove tops get dirty and there's really no easy work around. karthun posted:That's the thing, if you want induction you need all of the computer crap to run the PWM. I just more or less need my stove to get hot enough to cook whatever food I'm making and reliably adjust the temperature up or down when I'm doing that. I don't care how it looks or if it comes off as COOL when people come over to look at it and I sure as poo poo don't need a UL regulation protecting me from the idea that heat is HOT and treating me like Ralph WIggum like another poster put up there. I've always preferred gas burners myself but my house isn't set up for that. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 18:28
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eXXon posted:I had a glass cooktop over electric coils and it scratched very easily and was a pain to clean. I don't know what purpose it served over having exposed coils. In principle I guess it's supposed to give you a larger, flatter area to cook on, except it wasn't actually very level and made less contact than coils would have. Some electrical part in it failed after maybe 4 years and my landlord had to replace the entire cooktop because they don't do repairs (Bosch brand, in case it matters). I don't think anything about it was smart so stupid design is far from unique to smart poo poo. The glass cooktops are generally easier to clean and are considered safer than coil cooktops. If you have a bunch of caked-on build-up, use baking soda and a bit of vinegar to take most of it off pretty easily. They also offer more consistent heating than coils, and have more variability (it's easier to design different shapes and sizes of heating elements when using glass). There's also metal cooktops that are similar in nature, and are basically like commercial griddles. Basically the advantage for coil ranges is that they are more resilient to damage, cheaper and easier to repair, and the older ones are allowed to get much hotter (newer ranges aren't allowed to be 900F because it's a safety hazard). They're the normal trade-offs between "old-reliable gear" and "new-fangled fancy poo poo". https://blog.bellinghamelectric.com/blog/smooth-top-ranges-pros-cons-versus-coil-top Arsenic Lupin posted:Did not know! Thank you. That'll make a big difference in my future (I hope) stove-buying decisions. Right now we're using the electric-coil stove that came with the house, and we'll certainly be sticking with electric. Another term for them is "induction converter discs". Apparently the market for them is all over the place at the moment, with some of them being really cheap but crap, and others being pretty decent, but basically they just make an induction range have the slower performance of a gas or electric coil range. It's the sort of thing I would reserve for specialty stone or ceramic cookware, rather than for everyday use, but it seems very doable. https://cookeryspace.com/use-non-induction-cookware-on-induction-cooktop/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 18:51
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Gas is more likely to be replaced by (clean) hydrogen than pure electric for some of these reasons. It's perfectly fine to use though, just put the extractor fan on or get one fitted. Indoor air quality in general is something that's getting looked into further and has some potential for upset though.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:00
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Gas is more likely to be replaced by (clean) hydrogen than pure electric for some of these reasons. It's perfectly fine to use though, just put the extractor fan on or get one fitted. Indoor air quality in general is something that's getting looked into further and has some potential for upset though. Currently 95% of the Hydrogen being used to run Fuel Cell cars in the USA is coming from fracked natural gas.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:04
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Gas is more likely to be replaced by (clean) hydrogen than pure electric for some of these reasons. It's perfectly fine to use though, just put the extractor fan on or get one fitted. Indoor air quality in general is something that's getting looked into further and has some potential for upset though. Unless its sourced from a Nuclear plant or some other electrolysis method, its gonna be fracked natural gas. That's the Hydrogen economy. Its entirely about the Natural Gas industry trying to get a lifeline.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:10
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Gas is more likely to be replaced by (clean) hydrogen than pure electric for some of these reasons. It's perfectly fine to use though, just put the extractor fan on or get one fitted. Indoor air quality in general is something that's getting looked into further and has some potential for upset though. A lot of the hydrogen being produced tends to be "blue hydrogen", which is just normal fossil gas production with some degree of carbon capture equipment. There's concerns that the CCR impact is so low that such projects end up losing more carbon to leaks than they end up actually capturing. There's obviously lots of interest from the fossil fuel companies in making this work, but the environmental benefit remains unclear. It's much like how "zero-carbon renewable biomass" has quickly been redefined to mostly mean "burning forest timber in coal plants". Improving kitchen (and bathroom) ventilation is certainly worthwhile throughout the United States, but generally is very difficult in pre-existing structures. There's hardly any housing codes that require it and in many buildings there's no real potential for installing ventilation ductwork posthoc. It's all stuff that needs to be reformed, but isn't really getting much attention. I think that studies are starting to really come out against though, as liberal areas have become more critical of the growth of residential fossil gas installations: https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/5/7/21247602/gas-stove-cooking-indoor-air-pollution-health-risks Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 2, 2021 |
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Sep 2, 2021 19:13
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Kaal posted:Improving kitchen (and bathroom) ventilation is certainly worthwhile throughout the United States, but generally is very difficult in pre-existing structures. There's hardly any housing codes that require it and in many buildings there's no real potential for installing ventilation ductwork posthoc.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:24
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I like this discussion about what type of stove to buy. The one I use is the one my landlord purchases and it is unlikely to be anything else.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:33
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Kaal posted:A lot of the hydrogen being produced tends to be "blue hydrogen", which is just normal fossil gas production with some degree of carbon capture equipment. There's concerns that the CCR impact is so low that such projects end up losing more carbon to leaks than they end up actually capturing. There's obviously lots of interest from the fossil fuel companies in making this work, but the environmental benefit remains unclear. It's much like how "zero-carbon renewable biomass" has quickly been redefined to mostly mean "burning forest timber in coal plants". Worth noting that most of the big attempts at CCR for blue hydrogen are failing, including Australian gas companies going so far as to cancel their projects because they saw it as a waste of time.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:33
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MickeyFinn posted:I like this discussion about what type of stove to buy. The one I use is the one my landlord purchases and it is unlikely to be anything else. In order to get cities to commit to the bans on new fossil gas installations you first have to get people on board with the idea that electric appliances are good alternatives.
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Sep 2, 2021 19:36
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