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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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Mordja posted:One of the big mods, I think either Contra or ROTR does this. As I recall, the downside is that they're much easier to shoot down in that mode. ROTR doesn't. It does give the Tomahawk an alternate fire mode with considerably longer range in return for the missile being much slower (and hence easier to shoot down) and not homing in on moving vehicles, though. Edit: Speaking of it, I really hope Jobbo does eventually come around to trying some mods, including RotR. I actually still play skirmishes of the latest version from time to time and it's IMO one of the best Genrals mods out there. 
Magni fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 16:03
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Hmmm, I do feel that I've played a mod which basically converts the launched tomahawks into flying suicide units but I guess I'm not sure exactly which one it was. 
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Sep 9, 2021 16:07
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You have only yourselves to blame for not letting me dive into mods. I'll get around to mods eventually, maybe as a megathread to cover all of them, as it won't be intended to cover them all in detail.
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Sep 9, 2021 17:50
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Speaking of mods, I heard that there were a bunch of them, based around Franklin Patrick Herbert Junior's Dune books.
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Sep 9, 2021 18:02
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No, no, those are actual games.
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Sep 9, 2021 18:09
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Loxbourne posted:So let's talk about that Detention Camp structure and the cut prisoner mechanic. I wonder if the POW system was cut because it didn't fit well into the rhythms of combat in Generals. Like a lot of Westwood titles infantry are mostly outclassed by vehicles on foot, so their primary purpose later in the game is to garrison civilian structures to defend your base or slow down enemies. By the time you unlock the POW system you'll probably have transitioned to using vehicles for everything, so actually using the system is a distracting micromanaging chore - bring along infantry with stun weapons and a POW vehicle to the battle, make sure they don't get killed, then deliver the POWs back to your prison structure - all to power up an ability of only modest and situational utility on the battlefield. Act of War: Direct Action and its sequel brought back the POW system, but they found a better way to make it work. Most importantly combat in AoW was balanced so that infantry could be quite powerful against vehicles all throughout the game, so you're always going to have troops walking around to garrison buildings, protect your vehicles or perform missions in areas where vehicles can't easily operate. Secondly, they give you a reason to capture POWs by making them part of the secondary income generation system. You get a cash bounty whenever you capture a prisoner, and each faction can build a prison addon upgrade to their respective barracks that can hold up to 10 prisoners who will generate a steady infinite income. There's also the option to exchange a prisoner to reveal part of the map for a short period of time, but gathering income is the primary motivation for engaging with the mechanic. (IIRC AoW doesn't really engage with the morality entailed in the mechanic, or even go into any sort of detail beyond the level of video-game abstraction.)
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Sep 9, 2021 20:53
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USA 06: Desperate Union https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vn8FhH0fuY USA 06: Desperate Union  Reports from the Chinese have indicated that a rogue General has decided to side with the GLA faction. They have begun sharing technologies in southeastern Kazakhstan, but the Chinese themselves are busy elsewhere. It is up to you, General, to reinforce a local force and destroy all presence of the Chinese and GLA forces in the area. Beware, it is likely that they possess nuclear weaponry.   Take your pick as to where this might be, there's no water on the map. Maybe Urzhar?   Location: Southeastern Kazakhstan Objective: Destroy the Chinese and GLA bases. Author's note: A nice breath of fresh air from the last one. Also please stop owning Burton with your fire, poison, and death     Particle Uplink Cannon ARMOR: Structure COST: 5000 POWER USAGE: 10 PURPOSE: The USA's Superweapon The most advanced USA weapon, the Particle Cannon fires a focused particle beam off of an orbiting mirror and onto enemy targets at any distance from the source. Author's Note: Arguably the worst of the superweapons, I never liked the need to control its movement, and thus being stuck unable to control anything else at the same time.  Supply Drop Zone ARMOR: Structure COST: 2500 POWER USAGE: 4 PURPOSE: Provides cash influx for USA faction. When a base is isolated from its supplies, a Supply Drop Zone can add a trickle of supplies to your stores. Periodically, transport planes drop supplies that add to your money. In large or small battles, a Supply Drop Zone can make a difference. Author's Note: Much like the Chinese Hacker and GLA Black Market, the SDZ is essential for survival when supplies have run dry on the map. These not only operate at slower intervals then the other factions, they provide a useful way to "scan" for anti-air defenses along their flight paths.   Paradrop III FACTION: USA COST: 3 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Call in a stick of 20 Paratroopers (Rangers) Ability to deploy a Paradrop from the Command Center. Author's Note: 20 Rangers is actually worthwhile getting, but I'll pass on it sometimes for Pathfinders and Paladins if needed.  A-10 Strike FACTION: USA COST: 3 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Ability to call in an A-10 Strike Ability to call in an A-10 air strike from the Command Center. The A-10 Strike pummels its target with mini-gun and missile fire. Author's Note: Three A-10s can mulch just about any building or unit in the game. The only notable exceptions are Superweapons or Command Centers.  Fuel Air Bomb FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 5 PURPOSE: Ability to call in a Fuel Air Bomb Ability to call in a Fuel Air Bomb strike. Delivered by a B-52 to a selected target. Author's Note: Strong, but relies on a vulnerable delivery system akin to the Paradrop.  TOW Missile FACTION: USA COST: 1200 PREREQUISITE: War Factory PURPOSE: Provides Humvees with a missile weapon. Developed at the War Factory, the TOW Missile can be targeted from a Humvee at air or ground targets. Author's Note: I never really used Humvees, so even when I bought this for completion sake I never made use of it. Aftermath: What could possibly have convinced a Chinese General to defect to the terrorist side? No matter, we must do everything possible to finish off the GLA as soon as possible. Onwards!
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Sep 9, 2021 23:28
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The Particle Cannon, definitely the most interesting of the superweapons, in that, it's not just fire and forget. When you fire the laser, you get to control its movement for about 10 seconds or so, which might seem like a needlessly finnicky way to do damage, but there's actually a trick to it to maximize its damage. See, the Cannon has two sources of damage it can potentially inflict: the laser beam itself, which is the most obvious, but that beam also leaves small fires in its wake that do continuous damage for a few more seconds. So, to maximize its damage output, fire the laser, but don't just leave it hanging. If you're firing at a specific building or group of buildings, move the laser around. The laser will create fires (though not nearly on the same level as China's firestorm mechanic) that continue to do damage. You can also double click the destination of the beam to have it move twice as fast. It's a bit more micromanage-y than just burying a large radius in toxins and explosives like GLA, but for the shortest superweapon cooldown, definitely worth the trade-off. In addition, the Cannon can easily vaporize GLA Holes so it's at least better than the nuke in forcing GLA to rebuild lost Black Markets or Arms Dealers and the like. As for this mission, if you move ground forces into the central city, you'll be informed Jarmen Kell is hiding amongst the buildings and you can flush him if you so choose. Nice little bit of flavor if you don't solely go Colonel Burton to take out both bases.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:55
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I'm pretty sure you can just use the particle cannon to destroy the nuke. The double-click trick Sylphid method is enough to get the PC to destroy a command center, and superweapons are similar in strength. I might be misremembering though, I know the command centers have more surface area to cause fires on.
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Sep 10, 2021 00:00
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It might because of the lack of a later unit but it still hurts to see you ignoring the Humvees, they're the best ground unit the US have.
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Sep 10, 2021 00:17
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10 seconds is a long time to give up control of everything you have on the off-chance you'll kill a superweapon/command center. Its not lost on me that it can do a lot of damage, but there's no way you can get that effectiveness when micro'ing loaded humvees, among other things.
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Sep 10, 2021 00:18
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And this mission, where it is a paper thin way to spice things up by facing Chinese units as well. Burton is 100% the way to go for this one, as the middle, as shown in the intro, is just a grindy deathtrap where you will get pinchered between the two enemy bases. Since the Chinese buildings are owned by the GLA and not their own separate player, the GLA get a huge production boost by having power, so taking down the GLA production early is key. Sadly, like in so many other missions, their base is just incredibly hollow with everything important up north clustered together, with all there resource gathering down in the middle and south. Still, it is nice taking Burton out for a stroll on this map, and abusing his cliff climbing ability to its fullest. The Particle Uplink Cannon is defiantly the most involved of the three superweapons and while it does require you to manually direct it, being able to 100% destroy GLA buildings is really darn useful, and unlike other superweapons it strikes pretty much instantly after the warning that it is being used. As stated, the fires it leaves are actually pretty damaging so you can quickly sweep across most buildings, even just clipping the corner of them, and they will be destroyed by the fire damage after a few seconds. Plus it takes up the least space of any of the superweapons which is very nice and has a very low charge time. There is another reason I actually really like the Particle Uplink Cannon but that isn't until Zero Hour, so will say no more. The Supply Drop Zone on the other hand is... not that great, honestly. It takes 2 whole minutes for $1,500 to be dropped off via several money crates. Now the unique thing with them is that the facing of the Drop Zone determines the direction of the plane that flies in, so make sure it doesn't have to fly over a ton of AA, at least while going in anyway. Also, sometimes due to positioning, one or more money crate will miss the Drop Zone and you have to pick it up manually. Alternately, if you build a building where the missed create(s) land, it will automatically collect them. While the money payout is pretty big, the huge delay between drops can be very annoying, at least until you invest a ton of money in building a lot of them to keep the cash flowing in. The A-10 level 3 is one of my favorite US powers, as each A-10 is fittingly very tough and unless you are flying them into an incredible amount of AA, they generally will reach their target and level it. The Fuel Air Bomb is also incredibly powerful and can wipe out most buildings and units in its blast radius. Really have to watch out for AA though, as the plane that drops it can't take too much of a beating and it has quite a long cooldown. Still super useful though and almost always worth the pick-up. Lastly, the TOW Missile is just really good, and if you are going to use your incredible HUMVEE doom squads, you are going to want this, plain and simple. Still, overall, this is a pretty fun mission that also just looks really nice as well, even if Burton can just clown all over it. UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 07:37
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For the particle cannon, ideally you choose a line of enemy buildings about half a screen to a screen long, start it at one end and doubleclick to the other end. That way you can fire and forget, because other than the command centre and the superweapon, bo building survives a 'strafe' like that.
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Sep 10, 2021 07:45
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I know the story continues to make no drat sense, but why would a Chinese general work with the GLA after they already (kind of) backstabbed them in the GLA campaign, blew up Chinese interests and straight up destroyed several of their cities? Heck how would a Chinese general even convince his troops to defect to a terror organization en mass? You won't be getting paid and you will be universally loathed for no reason! I know the only actual reason is so we don't keep fighting just the GLA but still.
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Sep 10, 2021 07:49
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evilmiera posted:I know the story continues to make no drat sense, but why would a Chinese general work with the GLA after they already (kind of) backstabbed them in the GLA campaign, blew up Chinese interests and straight up destroyed several of their cities? Heck how would a Chinese general even convince his troops to defect to a terror organization en mass? You won't be getting paid and you will be universally loathed for no reason! They must have read the GLA Master Plan and liked what they saw. And yet, this is still early days for the sheer insanity that is Generals, I just can't wait till we hit Zero Hour, ohhh boy is that probably my favorite expansion of any C&C game, and that is saying something.
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Sep 10, 2021 08:42
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Yeah I can't wait for the ZH insanity as well. The way it changes up the gameplay is great.
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Sep 10, 2021 09:33
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Mordja posted:Hmmm, I do feel that I've played a mod which basically converts the launched tomahawks into flying suicide units but I guess I'm not sure exactly which one it was. I believe that is also a feature in Act of War for their tomahawk launcher. Again it is very weird how much like Generals that game is.
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Sep 10, 2021 12:23
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Sylphid posted:You can also double click the destination of the beam to have it move twice as fast. OwlFancier posted:I believe that is also a feature in Act of War for their tomahawk launcher.
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Sep 10, 2021 13:49
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Mordja posted:WHAT Doe...doesn't everyone know that one?
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Sep 10, 2021 14:11
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Doe...doesn't everyone know that one? Nope!
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Sep 10, 2021 14:16
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I didn't, but I also never really played USA. I played maybe 60% China, 30% GLA, 10% the boring one.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:12
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Doe...doesn't everyone know that one? For the longest time I didn't know you could control the beam itself, so I can see how people wouldn't know about that. I think I thought the beam moving was just a cutscene power tm Also I don't remember this map at all, but the next one is a bit more memorable.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:20
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Space Kablooey posted:For the longest time I didn't know you could control the beam itself, so I can see how people wouldn't know about that. I think I thought the beam moving was just a cutscene power tm Me too. You aren't actually told anywhere in-game how to move the beam, I don't think. I just happened to accidentally click elsewhere while the beam was firing one day and gaped in awe.
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Sep 10, 2021 16:31
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Mordja posted:The only other explicitly Generals clone I can think of is War Front Turning Point, a sort of Weird War 2 take on things.
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Sep 10, 2021 18:59
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It's also a bad game in general. I bought it back then because I'm a huge RTS fan, and found it all-around dissapointing even beyond the dumpster fire of a story. Graphics are basically C&C Generals except worse and the gameplay was a mess, too.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:12
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OwlFancier posted:I believe that is also a feature in Act of War for their tomahawk launcher. There's a pretty limited set of things you can do in a 'modern combat RTS' trying for that ripped-from-the-headlines style both of them attempt, so the overlap is going to be strong, yeah. but one of the games is a complete, relatively polished, mechanically interesting title even at 1.0 that doesn't need an expac to save it, and the other reuses the dam blowing up script three times. really glad I skipped out on this Warfront game, from the sounds of it, though!
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Sep 10, 2021 19:53
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Psion posted:There's a pretty limited set of things you can do in a 'modern combat RTS' trying for that ripped-from-the-headlines style both of them attempt, so the overlap is going to be strong, yeah. They are both IMO a lot of fun but AoW is like... it's like the sequel to generals, almost, or like the game generals apparently could have been if they didn't cut a bunch of stuff and the GLA was actually the illuminati (which is far better than "what if the world was made of terrorists" which is the approach that generals seems to take) Also it has an absolutely spectacular air war system, much more like air assets in the Wargame series, absolutely dunks on giant piles of units if you use the right airstrikes. It's kind of funny actually given the act of war baddies have super sci fi tech and apparently a space tractor beam as a super weapon, they are still more grounded than the absolutely absurd GLA characterisation in generals, I can't remember if I ever did the campaign, I really would have thought that I did but I don't remember any of it except for the dam blowing up theme.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:10
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OwlFancier posted:It's kind of funny actually given the act of war baddies have super sci fi tech and apparently a space tractor beam as a super weapon, they are still more grounded than the absolutely absurd GLA characterisation in generals, I can't remember if I ever did the campaign, I really would have thought that I did but I don't remember any of it except for the dam blowing up theme. Nah, the AoW baddies superweapon is simply crashing old military sattelites via a hacking uplink. Other than the predator-style cloaking and land-based railguns the "sci-fi" part of their arsenal is basically just a bunch of IRL failed prototypes.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:50
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Marshal Radisic posted:Oh man, if you guys think Generals is in poor taste, War Front: Turning Point will blow you away. The game's story ends with the Allies and the hastily vaguely deNazified Germans teaming up to reinvade the Soviet Union and seize Moscow. The Allies and the Germans are also the only factions that have single-player campaigns; the Soviets are skirmish/multiplayer only. Operation Unthinkable? Everyone told Churchill it was a terrible idea.
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Sep 10, 2021 23:20
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The Lone Badger posted:Operation Unthinkable? Everyone told Churchill it was a terrible idea. Dumber than that. Way, way dumber. Hitler gets assassinated early in the war and replaced by an even more rabid unnamed leader, and Sealion happens. The Allies take Britain back and then end up outright teaming up with what amounts to a german military coup ousting the nazis in a brief civil war, to be followed by a peace treaty. Then the Soviets backstab everyone just as the peace treaty is supposed to be signed. Also IIRC basically the Soviets were outright flase-flagging the Allies, stealing military research, kidnapping scientists and blowing research sites under the guise of nazi commandos for most of the war. Tl;dr: 
Magni fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 23:46
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Groetgaffel posted:I didn't, but I also never really played USA. The USA is definitely the boring one personality-wise, but I'd argue they're super interesting mechanically. And if you don't think they are right now, well... we'll get to that. I've been trying to avoid talking about it since Jobba wants to keep the future a secret, but I am VERY much looking forward to the near-future. I have a lot to say about it. The B-52 that drops the Fuel-Air Bomb is not invulnerable but it's pretty darn tough. The FAB is also utterly disgusting in terms of how big an area it hits and how much damage it does, it's basically a pocket superweapon -- with the advantage being that while it takes a General Point, it DOESN'T take power or setup cash and doesn't have an associated building, and therefore is always available so long as you have your Command Center. The Supply Drop Zone is definitely the weakest of the three methods; apart from everything already mentioned, it requires power to function. Neither Hackers (somehow) nor the Black Market do, so it's beyond crucial for the USA to keep its power on. The Particle Cannon, however, can be the strongest superweapon. Other people have discussed the potential damage you can get from moving it, but being able to move it and thus shape the damage zone can itself be very useful, if you're aiming it at things you want dead that are near things you don't (Oil Derricks, tech buildings, enemy poo poo you want to capture). It definitely DOES require the most attention to get the most out of it, though. Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 00:02
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I'm actually quite fond of the Supply Drop Zone, though the crates occasionally missing the pad and requiring manual pickup is definitely lame. The airplanes that drop the supplies can be good to annoy enemy AA if you're coordinating an airstrike with them and they're more durable than Hackers, and I think it has slightly more HP than the Black Market, but definitely don't quote me on that. Just the fact that an Anthrax Bomb + Rebel Ambush could decimate China's late-game economy is enough to turn me off of them.
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Sep 11, 2021 03:20
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I need to double check, but the crates missing happen only (or more often, at least) when you place the drop zones close to the edges of the map.
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Sep 11, 2021 03:30
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The problem with Supply Drop Zones 1. Requires power 2. Longest time for return on investment 3. Not cool, movable, or camouflaged
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Sep 11, 2021 03:55
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My main issue with them is that they are just a flat surface, which requires you "build" it on an already-flat surface. Just drop my free money in the field! I'll go pick it up! Sometimes I have to anyway when the planes miss. 
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Sep 11, 2021 04:00
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Also what's up with that atrocious power consumption anyway? it's a slab with some lights bolted in, is it the blinking computer that consumes that much power??
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Sep 11, 2021 04:12
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"Balance"
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Sep 11, 2021 04:13
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It's to represent the corruption and logrolling inherent in maintaining a worldwide military-industrial complex. You'll give Raytheon golden toilets by "powering" empty fields, and you'll loving like it
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Sep 11, 2021 04:15
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It's really to provide the lights for the aircraft manufacturers who are responsible for replacing all those planes that get shot down after delivering supplies. C-130s don't come cheap.
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Sep 11, 2021 04:23
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 10:08 |
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The black market produces $20 a second in all weathers, and just sits in the GLA base (for good or ill, it will succumb to all superweapon attacks and many Generals powers). Hackers produce $5 on a regular cycle, then more as they gain experience. They are of course infantry and horribly vulnerable in core Generals, but also the easiest to mass - so you get the comical sight of dozens and dozens of hackers on their laptops in the middle of a military base. More on this later, as the devs did recognise this was silly and came up with a decent idea to make hackers less vulnerable and bring a bit of sanity to the Chinese Base LAN Party. The supply drop site is the most expensive, needs power, flies a plane across the map and brings in less than the Black Market but more than the equivalent cost in hackers. I've always felt it fit the tone nicely for the US military. It's also somewhat tough and can take more than one hit from aircraft or a support power (the drop zone is specifically immune to EMPs, and the other two factions are low on heavy direct-damage support powers anyway). I believe the cargo plane also reveals the map beneath it, which can be a nice bonus. In the game files it is actually a repurposed tech structure, like the oil rigs. It makes sense in that light, if you assume it was some structure out in the wilds that the player would need to capture and defend, and which had a massive tell in the form of the cargo plane whenever it was being used. The secondary economic structures are clearly intended to help players once the supplies on the map are exhausted, while providing a comeback mechanic for a player who gets bottled up. It seems pretty core to the game's design concept - I wonder if the US was intended to have a different system that was cut?
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Sep 11, 2021 14:04
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