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Arglebargle III posted:Paul saw the golden path but would rather walk into the desert and die than become that tyrant. Being the Tyrant would suck.
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Sep 10, 2021 06:55
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Big rear end worm man with hotties suckling my lsd flaps doesn't sound so bad
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Sep 10, 2021 08:15
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Blood Boils posted:Big rear end worm man with hotties suckling my lsd flaps doesn't sound so bad You will have no penis.
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Sep 10, 2021 08:52
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you are the penis at that point
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Sep 10, 2021 11:42
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Vavrek posted:I know the paperback copy I first read (twenty?) years ago had at least a glossary, and the replacement copy I picked up a few years ago was (as best as I could tell) the same edition. (This one.) I've always assumed it was just a standard part of the text. I have a 1965 printing of the book and the glossary is in the beginning of the text. I think they made the right call putting it at the end of later printings, you get enough context in the novel to figure everything out.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:12
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Steve Yun posted:
Why wouldn’t they just use regular guns
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Sep 10, 2021 14:21
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DeimosRising posted:Why wouldn’t they just use regular guns Blows up if there’s gunfire too Only the superpowers had the resources to use this anti-gun/laser gas so you’d only see gunfire when there was something asymmetrical like guerilla warfare, terrorist attacks, massacring civilians Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 14:24
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Skeletome posted:you are the penis at that point With mind powers like that you won't need genitals
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Sep 10, 2021 17:14
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Is there any reason why in Dune the preferred method of fighting isn't to ram SUVs into each other? Wouldn't a shielded SUV ramming into a shielded dude still gently caress the dude up really bad from getting thrown around?
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Sep 10, 2021 19:32
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Look, knife fights are just inherently badass and I don't really care what weird science or mental gymnastics I have to do in order to get them into my science fiction.
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Sep 10, 2021 19:40
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Say what you will about Warhammer 40k but they dont even try to justify it outside of shrugging and mumbling something about having really good armor
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Sep 10, 2021 19:44
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Blood Boils posted:With mind powers like that you won't need genitals H U N G
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Sep 10, 2021 19:50
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porfiria posted:Is there any reason why in Dune the preferred method of fighting isn't to ram SUVs into each other? Wouldn't a shielded SUV ramming into a shielded dude still gently caress the dude up really bad from getting thrown around? Generally they don't really do war in the traditional battle way - it's usually done via assassinations. The Harkonnen assault on the Atreides costs the Baron something like a half century of profit.
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Sep 10, 2021 20:17
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The easiest in-universe explanation is that big pitched battles don't happen any more. Most House-on-House combat is individual assassins or small infiltration squads. At most you'd get fighting in and around a palace, mansion, or other key structure - urban combat where vehicles have little chance to get up to speed. The scale of the Harkonnen attack is mind boggling to Hawat, but it's still small-ish units attacking and defending cities with air support. The Atreides retreat to caves, presumably to use as bases to launch counterattacks (raids in to the cities). There's no big meeting of armies until the Battle of Arrakeen, where worms themselves are used like you suggest. e: Then why do the Houses maintain such a militarized posture? First as a mutual deterrent (like their atomics), and counterweight to the Sardaukar. More practically, each Great House rules over at least one planet, so keeping the planetary populations in line is probably the actual function of most House forces. Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 20:20
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AnEdgelord posted:Say what you will about Warhammer 40k Oh, sure. That Warhammer and 40k both began as tabletop games and they incorporated tropes to flesh things out. Which would be fine as pastiche but unfortunately most of the nerdlings that play those games into adulthood are not big readers so they talk about them like "Wow, mind blowing story!" since they've never read the source material.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:12
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Prolonged Panorama posted:The easiest in-universe explanation is that big pitched battles don't happen any more. Most House-on-House combat is individual assassins or small infiltration squads. At most you'd get fighting in and around a palace, mansion, or other key structure - urban combat where vehicles have little chance to get up to speed. Modern combat is sort of headed in this direction 50 years after the book was written. Precision fire support is so effective that militaries are investing heavily in not being seen in the first place. When both sides have artillery with a 6 foot circular error probability and robot planes that can see for 20 miles, you just don't want to commit much to the battlefield.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:27
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AnEdgelord posted:Say what you will about Warhammer 40k but they dont even try to justify it outside of shrugging and mumbling something about having really good armor Yeah I respect the 40k approach of “everyone is dumb and sadistic” over pretending it would ever make sense. Technobabble poo poo always just raises more questions
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Sep 10, 2021 22:37
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porfiria posted:Is there any reason why in Dune the preferred method of fighting isn't to ram SUVs into each other? Wouldn't a shielded SUV ramming into a shielded dude still gently caress the dude up really bad from getting thrown around? D U N C (buggy)
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Sep 10, 2021 23:58
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I think part of it is that the cost of interplanetary transport of sizable military forces requires both the assistance of third parties and carries an extreme price tag.
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Sep 11, 2021 00:25
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that’s why you have to attack the other houses frigates while on the highliner convention be damned
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Sep 11, 2021 14:19
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AlternateAccount posted:I think part of it is that the cost of interplanetary transport of sizable military forces requires both the assistance of third parties and carries an extreme price tag. Not only the cost I think, I imagine because the Guild monopolizes interstellar travel, it really makes waging total war difficult because the Guild will either refuse to transport you because they don’t want to disrupt the status quo, or they will transport you but you can’t trust that they won’t slip the news to your adversary
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Sep 11, 2021 14:56
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porfiria posted:Is there any reason why in Dune the preferred method of fighting isn't to ram SUVs into each other? Wouldn't a shielded SUV ramming into a shielded dude still gently caress the dude up really bad from getting thrown around? On Arrakis, you can't use ground vehicles or shields out in the desert or the worms will get you. We don't really ever see what the battles of the Fremen Jihad look like. There are massive conventional battles between the BG and HM forces in the last two novels. Bashar Teg is so important to the BG because he's a great military leader. There are also all sorts of terrible weapons used in that conflict like the device that just kills everyone in the command center.
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Sep 11, 2021 15:19
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I feel like there would be more pikes in Dune irl.
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Sep 11, 2021 20:38
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watch the trailer again  
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Sep 11, 2021 21:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huC_e9EkN8U ATMOSPHERICS!!!!!!
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Sep 11, 2021 21:15
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We have pikesign! e: Still no pugsign. So much for decorum.
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Sep 11, 2021 21:33
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porfiria posted:I feel like there would be more pikes in Dune irl. A lot of fantasy literature has a similar problem with over emphasizing swords over spears and pikes. 90% of all pre-gunpowder soldiers fought with a spear and the last 10% is 9.999% some form of bow and arrow with the 0.001% being Roman Legionaries.
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Sep 12, 2021 02:33
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Jewmanji posted:Not only the cost I think, I imagine because the Guild monopolizes interstellar travel, it really makes waging total war difficult because the Guild will either refuse to transport you because they don’t want to disrupt the status quo, or they will transport you but you can’t trust that they won’t slip the news to your adversary Yes. Before the Guild will “permit” you to wage war, you have to more than offset their losses or offer ironclad deniability.
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Sep 12, 2021 02:58
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AlternateAccount posted:Yes. Before the Guild will “permit” you to wage war, you have to more than offset their losses or offer ironclad deniability. This is the one thing that always struck me as odd about the Dune universe. Control of Arrakis means control of the spice. Control of the spice means control of the entire economy of the empire. Why the actual gently caress is Dune not continually garrisoned by sardaukar, and ruled personally by the emperor? I mean obviously not as his capitol planet, but why does he allow another layer of management between him and the lifeblood of his entire empire?
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Sep 12, 2021 13:10
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I'm not sure how useful pike blocks would be when a shielded attacker could fairly easily just jump right into/past the points. Pikes are heavy and wobbly, I don't think you could very easily hit just the right killing speed with one when your opponent is free to move on the other end.MrYenko posted:This is the one thing that always struck me as odd about the Dune universe. Control of Arrakis means control of the spice. Control of the spice means control of the entire economy of the empire. Basically, the emperor can't be seen trying to assert too much control under his own banner all at once. Sure, with the Sardaukar behind him he can pretty easily destroy any one noble house that he wants, but he absolutely can't stand against all of them at once (which is also why Leto I was such a threat, being able to sway many houses to his side). Through the CHOAM and the rotating stewardships, he's created a system where every single major house is invested in maintaining the status quo, as each of them individually has more to gain from waiting for their eventual turn as they would have trying to incite a civil war for sole ownership. Now, if the emperor actually went and said "gently caress you, Arrakis is mine and so is all the spice", that would make it much easier for somebody like Leto I to unite all the major houses towards overthrowing the emperor with the promise of a more equitable solution. The fact that Paul is apparently the very first person even considering outright destroying the spice supply as leverage shows just how effective the emperor's solution was in binding everyone into maintaining the status quo. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 13:51
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I also don't think it was generally known that it was possible to destroy the source of the spice, short of maybe nuking the whole planet to death. Which you generally don't want to do while you're on it.
sean10mm fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 14:00
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MrYenko posted:This is the one thing that always struck me as odd about the Dune universe. Control of Arrakis means control of the spice. Control of the spice means control of the entire economy of the empire. I mean honestly why isn’t the guild the government instead of the emperor? When you can warp in, nuke anyone who doesn’t fall in line, and warp out with zero ability to be retaliated against, you have no reason to not be in charge yourself. What’s the Emperor gonna do, seethe impotently from his useless resort planet that he can’t leave with his Sardaukar he can’t get in contact with? Paul could only do it by already controlling Dune, but he could only do that for the mind-boggling reason that in the last ten thousand years the Guild hadn’t just done it themselves.
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Sep 12, 2021 14:05
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The guild explicitly doesn't want to rule directly, they just want the status quo to keep on trucking so they can be high all the time. I don't remember if the guild even has a military?
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Sep 12, 2021 14:09
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Also the Guild being so reliant on spice was a twist in Dune, it was retconned into common knowledge later.
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Sep 12, 2021 14:15
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Remember also the Empire is not actually internally peaceful. There is a ritual official form of house warfare that everyone is familiar with, and the Atreides and Harkonnen feud isn't just them disliking each other, prior to the book's beginning they've been actively raiding and sabotaging and kidnapping/murdering each other. The Guild have a system where they are integral to the economy and are fabulously wealthy, have direct access to the Emperor any time they want and can issue him directives, and are not victims of the constant violence and intrigue that is the result of this unstable system. They're also all hopeless spice addicts - I'm not sure they are ever portrayed as wanting anything other than the security of access to literal mountains of spice so they can go fold space and be one with the universe.
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Sep 12, 2021 14:40
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“I could effortlessly seize complete and total power over all existence and no one can stop me, but I won’t.” Is something no powerful political power has ever said in human history.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:01
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galagazombie posted:“I could effortlessly seize complete and total power over all existence and no one can stop me, but I won’t.” Is something no powerful political power has ever said in human history. But what would they get from ruling directly that the status quo doesn't already provide? Their culture revolves around access to spice, which they have an endless supply of already, and prior to the events of Dune they're the only power in the galaxy that no one threatens at all. Overreaching would put a big target on their backs while providing no particular benefit
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Sep 12, 2021 15:29
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Might as well ask why Saudi Aramco doesn’t take over the world.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:38
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It gets brought up; Paul mentions that the Guild was simply too habituated to using their prescience to find safe routes to the future to go ahead with something destabilizing.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:45
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galagazombie posted:I mean honestly why isn’t the guild the government instead of the emperor? When you can warp in, nuke anyone who doesn’t fall in line, and warp out with zero ability to be retaliated against, you have no reason to not be in charge yourself. What’s the Emperor gonna do, seethe impotently from his useless resort planet that he can’t leave with his Sardaukar he can’t get in contact with? Paul could only do it by already controlling Dune, but he could only do that for the mind-boggling reason that in the last ten thousand years the Guild hadn’t just done it themselves. Why would they want to be?
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Sep 12, 2021 15:50
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