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Stereotype posted:i mean, electricians definitely make more money than i do got a quote from a plumber today for $12-15k. should have been a real plumber instead of an etl plumber
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:46 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 00:22 |
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as a note if your water heater breaks just replace it yourself. it is incredibly easy to do and a plumber will charge you thousands of dollars for a few hours of work. i have a friend who is a plumber and makes more in a weekend replacing a handful of water heaters than i do in two weeks. when mine broke i asked him "is this as easy as it seems?" and he was like "yeah, it's great"
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:50 |
my bro is an hvac tech and he pulls down more than me too. that fucker gets paid for his commute
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:51 |
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DELETE CASCADE posted:i think it's reasonable to argue that computer touchers are not "working class", because that term implies an income range that most yosposters exceed. we're not the capitalist ruling class, so we'd only fall into the working class if that is the only other option. i disagree because some of y'all got no class at all *skates backwards out of thread*
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:55 |
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but again back to the original point: if you can describe someone with a job then they are working class. the people who are not working class are not working, they live off unearned income like investments or rent.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:56 |
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the division of blue collar and white collar was manufactured by the ruling class to sow animosity among the workers
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:58 |
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Stereotype posted:but again back to the original point: if you can describe someone with a job then they are working class. the people who are not working class are not working, they live off unearned income like investments or rent. I'm on the dole, does that make me not working class?
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:58 |
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Kazinsal posted:the division of blue collar and white collar was manufactured by the ruling class to sow animosity among the workers absolutely not
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 00:59 |
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i've had so many jobs, and finally managed to get full time computer touching instead of side computer touching to supplement those jobs to live. i can assure you computer touching is still work. honestly working construction and making incredibly wealthy peoples 8th dream home felt like less of a contribution to society than what i do now. that's if the debate is labor needs to create a tangible benefit to society as a whole. if it's just nitpicking segments of labor and deciding that they are busy work for the wealthy, i kind of feel like that's all labor at this point.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:00 |
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i met a guy my age years ago who owned a house in Honolulu and didn't have a job. I was like, how do you pay bills? well he owned a ton of super lovely rental units in like arkansas or somewhere and made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing literally nothing. he hired a company to manage them and money just flowed to him on a beach in Hawaii. he used an inheritance to start and kept rolling extra profits back into more slums. this was in like 2010 so he said he mostly rented to people who got foreclosed on and couldn't get a mortgage on a new place he is not working class. i sort of hated him. there are millions of people like him.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:01 |
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My road rash from last week's bike crash is looking better
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:02 |
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don't scratch it fucker
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:02 |
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in the future if I have any mail I'll give it to tori, and he'll gently caress off on his bike to deliver it
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:04 |
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SmokaDustbowl posted:don't scratch it fucker yeah, I just scratched it before posting that because I wasn't thinking.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:04 |
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SmokaDustbowl posted:just asking questions and let me play devils advocate right? the rarely attempted echi defense
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:09 |
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PokeJoe posted:pretty much all modern infastructure is computer controlled. are you saying programming some automated flood gates isn't labor? making the safety systems on a car? i programmed some automotive crash detection into an app for work once that could automatically call 911, did that not count? i am right this second (supposed to be) designing part of a highway interchange, but fortunately it's actually labor because i'm drawing red lines on a hard copy plan set instead of using a filthy computer
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:12 |
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i'm a public school teacher and i ran a lathe today, making me the victor of whatever this olympics isStereotype posted:as a note if your water heater breaks just replace it yourself. it is incredibly easy to do and a plumber will charge you thousands of dollars for a few hours of work. i have a friend who is a plumber and makes more in a weekend replacing a handful of water heaters than i do in two weeks. a bunch of years ago i dealt with a busted water heater and i too was sure it was going to be thousands of bucks to fix i decided to google it and what do you know, the heating elements literally just screw into place and they're standardized and cost like 25 dollars. it took an hour including the time to drive to home depot. wack
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:15 |
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:My road rash from last week's bike crash is looking better all that hair is really killing your split times bro
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:16 |
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Sagebrush posted:a bunch of years ago i dealt with a busted water heater and i too was sure it was going to be thousands of bucks to fix i decided to google it and what do you know, the heating elements literally just screw into place and they're standardized and cost like 25 dollars. it took an hour including the time to drive to home depot. wack water heaters are basically big bombs, they really freak me out
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:19 |
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Sagebrush posted:all that hair is really killing your split times bro I ride for endurance, not speed
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:19 |
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Sagebrush posted:i'm a public school teacher and i ran a lathe today, making me the victor of whatever this olympics is ours is gas, I'd explode myself if I tried that.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:20 |
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DELETE CASCADE posted:but if you're looking for a fight: what does a permanently unemployed person know about being working-class? a lumpenproletariat with class consciousness? now i've seen everything
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:20 |
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Sagebrush posted:focusing on the petit bourgeois is just another way that the true wealth hoarders keep everyone else distracted. AOC is working class, you are working class, i am working class. you cease to be in that class when you have enough wealth that you could stop working a job without worrying about having a place to live or food to eat. i think there are maybe 2 people in yospos to whom that applies. this is the type of thoughts you get stuck in if you’re good intentioned but avoid learning about marxism
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:23 |
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:ours is gas, I'd explode myself if I tried that. mine too, lol p sure if i put myself on the permit for replacing it they would pull my home insurance at our last place the landlord had put in tankless heaters and that whole outside wall just reeked of that scent they add to natural gas
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:24 |
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Sagebrush posted:a bunch of years ago i dealt with a busted water heater and i too was sure it was going to be thousands of bucks to fix i decided to google it and what do you know, the heating elements literally just screw into place and they're standardized and cost like 25 dollars. it took an hour including the time to drive to home depot. wack Mine broke (there was a giant hole on the side facing the wall) earlier this year and basically flooded my apartment. I'm glad I live in an apartment and on the ground floor because I would not have been able to deal with that mentally.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:29 |
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didn't some cults outcompete capitalist societies and have to be put down by force? like four days ago someone said capitalism outproduced everything it came up against, feudalism, mechantalism, etc, but I swear they had to raid a number of hippie compounds because they were seen as threats
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:31 |
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RokosCockatrice posted:didn't some cults outcompete capitalist societies and have to be put down by force? like four days ago someone said capitalism outproduced everything it came up against, feudalism, mechantalism, etc, but I swear they had to raid a number of hippie compounds because they were seen as threats yeah, the us has done a lot of coups. you'll have to be more specific.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:32 |
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SmokaDustbowl posted:I'm on the dole, does that make me not working class?
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:34 |
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RokosCockatrice posted:didn't some cults outcompete capitalist societies and have to be put down by force? like four days ago someone said capitalism outproduced everything it came up against, feudalism, mechantalism, etc, but I swear they had to raid a number of hippie compounds because they were seen as threats that’s part of what outproduction means
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:34 |
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qirex posted:one of the things that it seems like folks haven't really figured out is that there's fuzzy edges on who does the work and who is management nowadays, and also on job roles that makes it pretty much impossible to define who's a "worker" [this is probably not an accident]. the default management path in tech is now to start taking on direct reports while still being an individual contributor i dont think this is some big unanswered question. it's just that classes operate on a level above individual people, and as such, any individual person may have class interests in multiple different classes to different extents. think about your coworker who has a rental property but still makes most of his living by working at your company
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:42 |
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https://twitter.com/pefrase/status/1437933700973535236?s=21
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:43 |
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fart simpson posted:think about your coworker who has a rental property but still makes most of his living by working at your company *thinks* guillotine
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:44 |
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well that took a hard turn
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 01:56 |
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Kazinsal posted:the division of blue collar and white collar was manufactured by the ruling class to sow animosity among the workers hmm, in the US at least it's more just racism than anything. percentage wise a six figgie fucktard is gonna be a white dude/lady.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 02:49 |
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piggie
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 02:57 |
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Truman Peyote posted:the distinction is whether you own capital or you sell labor. in marx's day there were other classes such as artisans, peasants, and aristocrats, but the logic of capitalism tends to sort people as either proletarian or burgeois, and even if people don't perfectly fit those categories, those two are the protagonists of the capitalist stage of history. Kenny Logins posted:the (shortstaple) cotton gin had only been around for like 50 years at that point so i don't know that specialized machinists akin to computer touchers were quite a thing yet by the time the manifesto was published. i stand to be corrected of course The Manifesto was published in 1848, towards the end of the industrial revolution, so manufacturing had undergone an enormous overhaul and technology was all over the place: Textile factories, Lumbermills... The telegraph was even rolling out in the 1840s (in fact I found it interesting that the speed of communication was held to the same level importance as the industrialization of labor, something that I never really thought about. Goal 6 in the Manifesto: "Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state"). In the span of 50 years we all started working in factories, the skill of artisans was massively devalued, the guilds they were members of lost influence, etc. Technology enabled the people that OWNED that technology to mostly benefit from its use while the users of that technology needed less skill and had less influence. So obviously, the defining aspect of the bourgeoisie class is the technology of manufacture and communication, something that is still true today: "The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society... Constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones". (This passage really stuck with me, describing the bourgeoisie like 19th century tech bros). But who is making these revolutionary improvements to production, it sure as hell isn't Jeff Bezos, its a lot of people in this thread. Maybe they don't go into it because it doesn't matter. The people that build and improve these machines are trapped in the same system as everyone else: "The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage-laborers" H.P. Hovercraft posted:kulak might be appropriate Maybe, in that developers and engineers tend to be paid well and have more money than the average person you could compare them to small time land owners, but the kulak and the "pawn broker, the landlord the shopkeeper" etc aren't directly enabling the capitalist system of manufacturer, they're just preying on the proletariat. Maybe developers and engineers are too, in a less direct way, I don't know. The difference in my mind is: If we lived in a communist system, developers, industrial engineers, etc, the people that make labor automation possible would have a useful role to play. We could have shorter days, safer jobs, etc etc... Instead of in the current system where some advancement means half the factory is laid off. I don't really think there's a place for landlords and pawnbrokers. So anyway, I know the Manifesto isn't the end-all-be-all of Communist thought, I just thought that omission was interesting. Also its pretty insane how relevant it seems considering it was written 175 years ago.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 04:28 |
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legit surprised the recall didn’t go through
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 07:16 |
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bump_fn posted:legit surprised the recall didn’t go through lol it was a doomed windmill tilt the entire time.
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 07:19 |
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bump_fn posted:legit surprised the recall didn’t go through sad!
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 07:21 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 00:22 |
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bump_fn posted:legit surprised the recall didn’t go through polling was all over the place, showing once again that state-level polling is trash
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# ? Sep 15, 2021 07:25 |