|
Rabelais D posted:it's a good genre book, and that's about it.  Also I’ve been beaten and I’m sure people will pile on but yes, you don’t seem familiar with what the white savior trope actually is. That Dune contains shades of that convention is literally the entire point of the series, it’s a subversion of that.
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 05:03 |
|
|
I'm in the mood for more Dune! Is the miniseries from 2000 and 2003 worth checking out? The late 90s/early 2000s CGI looks sketchy as gently caress, but the cast looks pretty good atleast.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
quote:In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Fremen naib to a creature of the Lisan al-Gaib, a receptacle for awe and obedience. It was a lessening of the man, and Paul felt the ghost-wind of the jihad in it. quote:"'...What little information we have about the old times, the pittance of data which the Butlerians left us, Korba has brought it for you. Start with the Genghis Khan.' 'Ghenghis . . . Khan? Was he of the Sardaukar, m'Lord?' 'Oh, long before that. He killed . . . perhaps four million.' 'He must've had formidable weaponry to kill that many, Sire. Lasbeams, perhaps, or . . .' 'He didn't kill them himself, Stil. He killed the way I kill, by sending out his legions. There's another emperor I want you to note in passing--a Hitler. He killed more than six million. Pretty good for those days.' 'Killed . . . by his legions?' Stilgar asked. 'Yes.' 'Not very impressive statistics, m'Lord.' "
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
battlepigeon posted:I'm in the mood for more Dune! It cast the perfect actor for the Baron at least.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
John Harrison, who wrote and directed the miniseries, is an executive producer on DUNC 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 16:31
|
|
|
Never read DUNE and went to see the movie because I'm a giant sci-fi nerd when it comes to the big screen. Was impressed by the visuals but the characters had little to no depth to me. Which prompts me to buying the books and just go straight to the source. My number one take-away from the movie that Warhammer 40k is basically DUNE and I love the everloving poo poo out of WH40k worldbuilding so yes, I think I'm gonna like this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
Yeah Dune is basically Warhammer 10k and things are just gonna continue getting worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 17:14
|
|
|
Watched it Thursday in Atmos. Good movie, sucked me in with the world building and atmosphere. Chalamet owned his role, I loved his subtle assertiveness. Everything about the Harkonnen and the Sarduakar was metal as gently caress. Question about something in the beginning of the movie Who spoke the very first line? The one before the credits?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
You can kinda see the Cold War in Dune, in that the Harkonnen are nakedly abusive while the Atreides use propaganda and pageantry to cloak virtually the same abuses in heroism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:You can kinda see the Cold War in Dune, in that the Harkonnen are nakedly abusive while the Atreides use propaganda and pageantry to cloak virtually the same abuses in heroism. This is my favourite little detail in the Spice Miner scene - the Duke spots the worm, and he and Gurney immediately spin it into a propaganda victory about how much he cares about the lives of his men. But he does also care, and gets genuinely angry about it. Which if anything, makes it even more cynical that the Atreides go to great lengths to tell everyone how noble they are.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
Yeah, it's not that Leto isn't a a good person so much that it doesn't matter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Leto does strike you as fundamentally a good and smart person, but he's stuck playing the aristocratic game a little too well to be safe and a little too poorly to win. In the book it's not even subtext since we see that he has serious doubts and wants to give it all up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:36
|
|
|
Mikojan posted:My number one take-away from the movie that Warhammer 40k is basically DUNE and I love the everloving poo poo out of WH40k worldbuilding so yes, I think I'm gonna like this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
Trump posted:Watched it Thursday in Atmos. Good movie, sucked me in with the world building and atmosphere. Chalamet owned his role, I loved his subtle assertiveness. Everything about the Harkonnen and the Sarduakar was metal as gently caress. Felt like the sardukar throat singer Baron von Eevl posted:My take with Herbert is he believed most strongly that the USSR was evil incarnate and anything that stopped them was an improvement, and while he was probably generally anti-colonialist it was probably mostly directed towards that evil empire. On top of that it's not hard to read from him a respect for Arab people as a noble savage type thing, but that if they ever got an inch of real power they'd kill everyone out of pure unbridled fanaticism That’s so obvious now that I feel dumb. Baron VLADIMIR lol. The USSR also tried very very hard to make the Arabs part of their soft empire, to the point that when Dune was written it was even run by Gamal Abdul Nasser - who’s party were the Arab Socialists strongly supported by the USSR, and who the US and Israel tried to force out in a very widely publicized incident to regain the Suez Canal (basically the spacing guild? I dunno)
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:44
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:You can kinda see the Cold War in Dune, in that the Harkonnen are nakedly abusive while the Atreides use propaganda and pageantry to cloak virtually the same abuses in heroism. Outside of aesthetics and wanting to ally with rather than nakedly oppress the Fremen (even that is instrumental), is there anything in the movie which establishes any sort of moral superiority on the Atreides' part? We get told that they rule their own world by air and sea power.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Yeah just like their general behavior. Leto is a better person than Vladimir and that comes through in his rule. But ultimately they are both hereditary nobility who run entire planets as imperial fiefs backed up by military force. In the book Caladan's economy is explicitly cash-cropping, while Geidi Prime runs on low-end manufacturing. The Atreides are plantation owners.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
It's been years since my last read, but iirc the Atreides are also popular with the small houses because they look out for the little guy (well, at least little-guy aristocracies) and don't just stomp all over them. Part of it is politicking and alliance-building, of course, but not all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Felt like the sardukar throat singer Spice = oil, you need it to allow any transportation and boy it comes from the ground in the desert.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:07
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:Spice = oil, you need it to allow any transportation and boy it comes from the ground in the desert. But also it was written in the 60s so 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:09
|
|
|
Well yes naturally
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:Spice = oil, you need it to allow any transportation and boy it comes from the ground in the desert. This comes together beautifully with what is my favourite little joke in the entire book; what Herbert named the spice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
TLM3101 posted:This comes together beautifully with what is my favourite little joke in the entire book; what Herbert named the spice. Melange? I don't get it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:37
|
|
|
Shanty posted:Melange? I don't get it. Melange can be translated as 'variety'. Hence, in Dune, Variety is literally the spice of life. And in oh so many ways!
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 20:38
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:Spice = oil, you need it to allow any transportation and boy it comes from the ground in the desert. Yeah this part I always saw and I’ve seen interviews where Herbert makes it explicit. He also called out decades back that he thinks wars in the near future will eventually be fought over Water which is why he wanted to make it such an important part of the story
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
A thing to note about the Cold War comparisons is that the United States was not a classic imperialist. If the Americans were meddling in other countries, it was usually for security, not resource extraction. The Americans wanted to contain the spread of communism, which terrified them. That's true even for oil. People forget that America already has vast reserves of oil, and with the shale oil revolution America is now self-sufficient when it comes to energy. The Atreides are definitely nicer than the Harkonnens because we see that in their private conversations. Leto is not going to bullshit his son and heir the way he bullshits the peasants.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:A thing to note about the Cold War comparisons is that the United States was not a classic imperialist. If the Americans were meddling in other countries, it was usually for security, not resource extraction. The Americans wanted to contain the spread of communism, which terrified them. That's true even for oil. People forget that America already has vast reserves of oil, and with the shale oil revolution America is now self-sufficient when it comes to energy. Absolute ahistorical nonsense, just because the US has its own Oil reserves doesnt mean they arent affected by global market price fluctuations, and things like the Saudi Oil embargo in the 70s can, and did, affect the US very negatively. In addition if you think the US is not involved in resource extraction in its client states then I wonder what you think the United Fruit Company or similar corporations were doing. In the United States Imperialism is a public private partnership and several of our most blatant acts of Imperial plunder have always been laundered through the private sector.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 22:18
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:A thing to note about the Cold War comparisons is that the United States was not a classic imperialist. If the Americans were meddling in other countries, it was usually for security, not resource extraction. The Americans wanted to contain the spread of communism, which terrified them. That's true even for oil. People forget that America already has vast reserves of oil, and with the shale oil revolution America is now self-sufficient when it comes to energy. lol if you think the war in Vietnam was purely a effort in containment.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 22:54
|
|
|
Can someone who's seen the movie or read the books explain what in the everloving hell that spider thing was?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 22:55
|
|
|
They condensed all the "wow the Harkonnen are gross bastards" scenes into one... thing and it worked
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 22:56
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:Can someone who's seen the movie or read the books explain what in the everloving hell that spider thing was? Just a creepy thing they added to make the Harkonnens seem more creepy and otherworldly. In the book they're just regular people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 23:03
|
|
|
I was hoping it was meant to be a chairdog, but probably not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
battlepigeon posted:I'm in the mood for more Dune! Depends a lot on your willingness to fill in the blanks - not only in the aforementioned CGI, but some of the acting, etc. Some are good though. Someone above already mentioned the Baron is pretty fantastic and others too, e.g. James McAvoy as Leto II in Children. There are good points and bad points to it. It's a pretty faithful adaptation as far as that goes. I like it, and others do, but many others also don't. In other words, watch it and form your own opinion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 03:03
|
|
|
Paul is badly miscast but I like what they did with the miniseries on a tight budget generally.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 05:15
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:But also it was written in the 60s so Yes definitely. Spice is used to expand your conciousness after all. battlepigeon posted:I'm in the mood for more Dune! Approach it like you're watching a stage play that's been filmed. Especially with the monologues and cheap sets and costumes. stratdax fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Sep 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 05:30
|
|
|
I think Frank Herbet was some kind of 60s California Libertarian, which isn't as bad as 2020s Libertarian but still features a lot of Dumb Ideas. Also he hated gays, which is pretty obvious in the book.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 05:48
|
|
|
Yeah, for every aphorism he churns out that's interesting or insightful, there's one that misses and is just (incredibly ironically) reflexive chanting of various memes like "hard times make hard men, etc."
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 07:38
|
|
|
There is an incredibly cringeworthy rant about liberals that comes out of nowhere in one of the last two books
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 07:51
|
|
|
Baron von Eevl posted:What sticks out to me was when Maiden wrote a song about Dune and contacted his estate about using the name, the response was something like "my father hated rock and roll, but the kind of rock and roll he hated most was heavy metal. And of all the heavy metal, the kind he hated the most was Iron Maiden." https://norselandsrock.com/to-tame-a-land-iron-maiden/ George Orwell's estate similarly rejected David Bowie's plan to adapt 1984 as a play. Such a weird attitude to have for works that clearly pay homage to the original work. Worst that can happen is...you almost certainly sell more books?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 12:43
|
|
|
the weird attitude of not wanting to turn a work of art into a franchise with several different types of adaptations that'll probably suck or mangle the source material, lunch boxes and a flamethrower lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 13:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 05:03 |
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:the weird attitude of not wanting to turn a work of art into a franchise with several different types of adaptations that'll probably suck or mangle the source material, lunch boxes and a flamethrower lmao Also Iron Maiden were never good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2021 13:52
|
|