interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

«‹›659 »

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

yeah, for every self-absorbed actor there�s going to be a programmer who believes themselves to be the pinnacle of intellectual thought

# ? Sep 29, 2021 03:23

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 25, 2024 01:08

exe cummings: Jan 22, 2005

e: nm

exe cummings fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Sep 29, 2021

# ? Sep 29, 2021 04:04

Kernel Sanders: Sep 15, 2020

stop saying �puter�, you�re not twelve

# ? Sep 29, 2021 06:45

Quackles: Aug 11, 2018; Pixels of Light.

Kernel Sanders posted:

stop saying �puter�, you�re not twelve

interviewing: stop saying 'puter, start saying 'crooter

Quackles fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Sep 29, 2021

# ? Sep 29, 2021 09:10

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

stop saying puter, start saying putter. Management material!

# ? Sep 29, 2021 09:24

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

theflyingexecutive posted:

thanks for all the advice and I'm excited but timid at the idea of saying that my wrangling of actors of various status would translate into a professional field. is this just a case of impostor syndrome I need to suppress?

yes

quote:

is there a hierarchy of product/project management where I would be given the ability to learn the specificities of the role under more senior leadership or is it more sink or swim type?

in my experience, which might not be universal, product managers have leveling and project managers don't really.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 15:40

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

PIZZA.BAT posted:

i'm 100% convinced that "agile" is the worst thing to happen to white collar productivity in the history of white collar work. it's mind boggling how many people it can suck into a year long project to change the location of a button on a screen

agile is fine, there is no process on earth that can force results out of a team that is incapable, indifferent, or sabotaged

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:06

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

i have never been in a good agile project and i *still* think the vague efforts to be agile were largely forces for good.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:10

TerminalRaptor: Nov 6, 2012; Mostly Harmless

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

i have never been in a good agile project and i *still* think the vague efforts to be agile were largely forces for good.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:16

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Gazpacho posted:

agile is fine, there is no process on earth that can force results out of a team that is incapable, indifferent, or sabotaged

SAFe is the latter category surely

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:18

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

ive seen SAFe multiple times recently but still have no idea what is it

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:28

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

cinci zoo sniper posted:

ive seen SAFe multiple times recently but still have no idea what is it

it�s a grift to sell consultants

supposedly it also helps steer software projects with hundreds of people but I�ve never seen any evidence to support this claim

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:30

SeXTcube: Jan 1, 2009

I�ve been told that the DoD and other US federal organizations started adopting [A|a]gile practices awhile ago and also require the same of their contractors. At my last job this manifested as micrograined jira tasks tracked to 6 minutes of resolution. You couldn�t shoot the poo poo with your team lead without a jira. It was horrible and made any experimental development impossible. We all became crank turners constantly overrunning task budgets by 50+%. To combat this they tried adopting an exponential story point system that had a wildly fluctuating definition of what a base unit of work was. Half the team left for better jobs within a year myself included.

Current job does agile as well for the same reason. It�s still relatively new at this company, but it�s far more relaxed. We do stands ups, two week sprints, retrospectives, and tasks are estimated as 1 story point per day to complete. Sometimes stuff rolls over to the next sprint and no one is crying about velocity.

There�s some benefits to it but it feels a bit wonky on projects that aren�t stuff like consumer facing web apps. As always, a good process won�t work if being driven by bad management.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 16:53

TerminalRaptor: Nov 6, 2012; Mostly Harmless

At my old job one of the best things we did for my team was junk the point system and go by Monte Carlo for throughput. The team was stable in regards to members and lo and behold our throughput on Jira cards was remarkably consistent across sprints. The benefit was no longer having to waste time arguing about point value on cards and just trusting the teams to adequately break down the work in planning and refinement.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 17:15

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

yup. my current team doesn't touch points or anything close to the concept in a trust-us-its-not-points-but-we-still-need-estimates way. we just dole out some tickets at the beginning of the sprint and break down any that seem to be too large. it's worked fine

despite that our teams are still massively bloated where we have just as many people on the team responsible for "running" our ceremonies as there are developers. agile is make-work for middle managers who can't get promoted imo

it's not my money so i don't care and they don't hold me back either so again, i don't care. but yeah when i said worse for productivity i meant in a work done per man hours kind of way. it's so good at just sucking in tons and tons of people who do nothing of value at all

# ? Sep 29, 2021 17:25

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

i don't even have a vague good "feeling" for agile, companies almost universslly use the concept to bloat middle management and stick their fingers in way more pies. PI planning gives managers an opportunity to walk around and see what projects they have nothing to do with are up to. Then they give input that should have been given months ago to teams that already did a lot of planning. Points are almost always used to push people to work harder and hold them to what are supposed to be estimates. It's full of pointless jargon to make it seem like some sort of fancy system but it isn't anything ground breaking. Maybe in an ideal world there's a company that actually puts the agile manifesto into real practice but I've never seen it. It's more like a cudgel.

By far my favorite way to work is to just be able to freely pull from a bucket of prioritized tickets. I hate sprint planning, retrospective, ticket refinements, etc etc etc. Why are there so many loving meetings. It's an app. It doesn't need the input of 23 people before we can decide if the background should be blue or grey

# ? Sep 29, 2021 17:57

ultravoices: May 10, 2004; You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?

also people touching roles include "business analyst" and "scrum master"

agile training/certificates are not super expensive and it's a good grift.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 18:25

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Kernel Sanders posted:

stop saying �puter�, you�re not twelve

yeah the correct term is compy

# ? Sep 29, 2021 18:39

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Shaggar posted:

yeah the correct term is compy

absolutely not

# ? Sep 29, 2021 18:41

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

i have never been in a good agile project and i *still* think the vague efforts to be agile were largely forces for good.

agile has a ton of stuff built in to try to deflect the most harmful project management fuckups. of course that doesnt prevent a company from ignoring all those things and loving it all up anyway.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 18:45

a dingus: Mar 22, 2008; Rhetorical questions only; Fun Shoe

Lol @ recruiters who want me to find time on their calendar to talk to them. I got 5 other people trying to call me I ain't taking an extra step for NOONE

# ? Sep 29, 2021 19:06

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

alright, i think I've reworked my resume into something approaching hr jargon, any big obvious fuckups or omissions?

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Sep 29, 2021 19:41

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

a dingus posted:

Lol @ recruiters who want me to find time on their calendar to talk to them. I got 5 other people trying to call me I ain't taking an extra step for NOONE

when recruiters do that I just read it as a signal that they're terrible at their jobs and are shotgunning requests to the entire world rather than actually contacting people with anything approaching personal care

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:05

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Shaggar posted:

yeah the correct term is compy

The only good compy's are the ones that ate John Hammond

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:16

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

kill your objective and replace it with a summary.

if you really want an objective statement, make it to-the-point and meaningful. there's a lot of fat and i'm pretty sure once it's trimmed it'd say "objective: do work"

turn your work history into bullet points. don't say "responsible for X", say "Xed". each X (or series of related X,Y) gets its own bullet point. recruiters will not read through a paragraph that's mostly filler

skills at the top - that's the first thing recruiters care about. you basically want

code:

NAME and CONTACT

skills

application of skills (work history)

other poo poo that uses your skills (relevant volunteer work, like if a dev does FOSS work)

education

other poo poo that doesn't use your skills (building houses, unless you're a PM and also managing the house-building project - if thats the case put it in the poo poo-that-uses-your-skills section)

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:16

mod saas: May 4, 2004; Grimey Drawer

Achmed Jones posted:

kill your objective and replace it with a summary.

if you really want an objective statement, make it to-the-point and meaningful. there's a lot of fat and i'm pretty sure once it's trimmed it'd say "objective: do work"

turn your work history into bullet points. don't say "responsible for X", say "Xed". each X (or series of related X,Y) gets its own bullet point. recruiters will not read through a paragraph that's mostly filler

skills at the top - that's the first thing recruiters care about. you basically want
code:
NAME and CONTACT

skills

application of skills (work history)

other poo poo that uses your skills (relevant volunteer work, like if a dev does FOSS work)

education

other poo poo that doesn't use your skills (building houses, unless you're a PM and also managing the house-building project - if thats the case put it in the poo poo-that-uses-your-skills section)

seconding all of this

also, if you think you might be / to preempt getting auto filtered out by the machines (are they even doing that anymore?), break microsoft office into each product so when the machine looks for �excel� it finds it, and consider the same for anything else that could keyword match

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:44

College Rockout: Jan 10, 2010

Should I include project budgets on my resume? I was the tech lead for a client project who had a yearly budget of around 600,000 and I'm wondering if I should try to drop that in somewhere or leave it off. 4 years of experience, so going for midlevel jobs

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:52

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

in techland peeps mostly use lever or greenhouse (both will have hosted jobs pages with an immediately recognizable style) to do ats. both these peeps have marginally more competent search peeps than shittier ats's (not good, just... marginally more competent) everyone else uses so the keyword matching poo poo doesnt work very well

greenhouse has a dealio for filtering based upon questions they give you up front in the jobs page application

https://support.greenhouse.io/hc/en-us/articles/203105595-Application-rules-overview

same deal for lever but iirc at a higher price point. so that's what this is, could become auto filtering into a trash bin or auto categorization etc etc

internally, i know lever likes to think of themselves as the platform for employers who actually have to compete for employees. that makes everyone treat you much better in every way, lol

keyword stuffing has been anticipated for in every ats major, including the less tech-involved ones.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 20:57

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

Achmed Jones posted:

kill your objective and replace it with a summary.

if you really want an objective statement, make it to-the-point and meaningful. there's a lot of fat and i'm pretty sure once it's trimmed it'd say "objective: do work"

turn your work history into bullet points. don't say "responsible for X", say "Xed". each X (or series of related X,Y) gets its own bullet point. recruiters will not read through a paragraph that's mostly filler

skills at the top - that's the first thing recruiters care about. you basically want
code:
NAME and CONTACT

skills

application of skills (work history)

other poo poo that uses your skills (relevant volunteer work, like if a dev does FOSS work)

education

other poo poo that doesn't use your skills (building houses, unless you're a PM and also managing the house-building project - if thats the case put it in the poo poo-that-uses-your-skills section)

mod saas posted:

seconding all of this

also, if you think you might be / to preempt getting auto filtered out by the machines (are they even doing that anymore?), break microsoft office into each product so when the machine looks for �excel� it finds it, and consider the same for anything else that could keyword match

thank you! rewriting now

# ? Sep 29, 2021 21:17

The Fool: Oct 16, 2003

CPColin posted:

The only good compy's are the ones that ate John Hammond

I was so mad that didn�t happen in the movie

# ? Sep 29, 2021 21:28

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

and next question: is it worth dumping several thousand dollars into a PM training course, especially due to my lack of directly applicable experience? I was recommended Product School, which at $6k is the bulk of my savings.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 21:33

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Don't do that first thing.

# ? Sep 29, 2021 21:35

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

Absolutely do not spend 6k on training

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:09

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

PokeJoe posted:

Absolutely do not spend 6k on training

at the very least, shop your resume around for a couple of months and if you get no nibbles then maybe come back to the issue of paying to take a class

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:10

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

If you read those linked articles above,

quote:

My understanding is that there are well over 100,000 people that have become Certified Scrum Product Owners (CSPO). Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I’ve encouraged countless product managers to get this training.

But my experience empirically is that for the vast majority of these people, the CSPO course has been their only formal training in preparation for their job as product manager.

What’s more, the person that trained them how to be a product owner is almost never a proven strong product manager with experience from a strong product company.

If I were you I'd find a pdf of a scrum master book and read it to learn enough of the jargon. Then just apply apply apply. If that doesn't work you can get a scrum master certification for a few hundred bucks and maybe network w a few other people getting a cert for job leads.

E: the certs expire too so it's not like everyone working has one. they're literally just a badge that says you passed a quiz on the book materials, at least for the safe ones

PokeJoe fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 29, 2021

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:13

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

get a job and get job to pay for it 9 months in or whatever

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:14

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

PokeJoe posted:

If you read those linked articles above,

If I were you I'd find a pdf of a scrum master book and read it to learn enough of the jargon. Then just apply apply apply. If that doesn't work you can get a scrum master certification for a few hundred bucks and maybe network w a few other people getting a cert for job leads.

E: the certs expire too so it's not like everyone working has one. they're literally just a badge that says you passed a quiz on the book materials, at least for the safe ones

any recs?

also thank you all, I will not be spending six thousand united states dollars on pm training

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:26

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

pm training is learning what �zero-inbox� means and how to do it, with a refresher on key functions of google calendar

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:34

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

Here's some of what that article is mentioning, I don't have much experience with it specifically:
https://www.scrum.org/professional-scrum-competencies/understanding-and-applying-scrum-framework

It does link to a nice scrum guide though
https://scrumguides.org/scrum-guide.html

The SAFe stuff people are mentioning is a bunch of stuff, here's the scrum master course i took:
https://scaledagile.com/training/safe-scrum-master/

you can find pdfs for these various SAFe courses around the internet to peruse. theres a bunch of them so you can look for one that matches the job/skills you want/have

but since you have real experience people herding if you read a book and wrangle your way into an interview you could probably get a job without paying for a cert. it's at least worth a try before you spend your life savings on an online class. you can always give up and then pay for something later but if 6k is all you got i'd imagine you don't want to toss it all away to learn what a burn down chart is

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 25, 2024 01:08

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

awesome thanks for the resources. I was considering the course less for what it could actually teach me and more about demonstrating to a hiring manager that I was serious about it/ have some competency in the language and methods and potentially if the program had networking/counseling opportunities built in

# ? Sep 29, 2021 22:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: The Land of the Rising Fig

«‹›659 »