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LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


Squashing Machine posted:

Not really looking forward to watching this finale tonight. Season 2 has been a complete mess. Ted has been rendered essentially a side character in his own show, and it became apparent halfway through the season that secondary characters who worked well as seasoning (Roy and Keeley's stuff is especially apparent in this) just don't function as a main course. The stakes are thready when they exist at all and the quirky comedy has been replaced with soap opera melodrama covered with a tarp of British swears to make you think it's still the show you loved under there.

Weirdly enough, this season has reminded me of season 2 of One Punch Man. The show doesn't seem to know what to do with itself now that essentially everyone, with a few exceptions, is on Ted's side, so he gets relegated to the sideline while we get subjected to increasingly cloying manufactured relationship drama. Rebecca's wonderful two-faced scheming from Season 1 is replaced with playing App Store grabass and giggling about boys with Keeley. What should have been big, impactful revelations about Ted's past are undercut by bizarre pacing and weird thematic choices (the intercutting with Rebecca's recounting of finding her dad boning Miss Crumpetfield or whoever as though that's the emotional equivalent of being two rooms over when your dad shoots himself in the head just completely let all the air out of a scene the show has been setting up since the darts game). The delight at Roy being a teddy bear juxtaposed against his harsh persona has given way to him just being a teddy bear all the time and telling Keeley how great she is. Sam is written as so aggressively good-natured that you never get a sense of what he actually wants or if he has anything more than vague opinions about anything at all. The only people I'm not exhausted with are the ones used sparingly enough to escape the black hole of writing that's annihilating the core of the show; Higgins, Jamie Tartt, and to a lesser extent Beard, whose big night out was the first time I registered myself as actually having a good time watching this season.

At the end of the day, Season 2 has broken Season 1's spell of underdog spirit and genuine affect, and now just feels like a bunch of rich and famous people screwing around while a football club randomly wins or loses in the distant background. It's going to need a massive course correction in the writer's room before Season 3, but I'm not going to be surprised if they dig their heels in against "the haters" and render the show basically unwatchable. Optimism only gets you so far; eventually, you have to actually put the work in.

While I liked the overall season more than you, and the finale did a lot to save face with the issues, I agree with a lot of these criticisms.

Also they’ve already said two characters are back next season, but the only one I care about is the school teacher because I want her with Roy now over Keely.

Keely this season has uh, been a huge misstep.

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swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know
Can we please change the thtead title to "gently caress you Piers Morgan"

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007

:japan:
Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

MiddleOne posted:

Yeah it was completely pointless. No plot related to the financial struggles or getting back. It all just slotted anyway, making it a complete distraction.

Yo-yoing clubs between the Premier League is a proud and time honoured tradition, exacerbated by the parachute payments relegated teams get to taper their withdrawal from the giant pots of money.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
The more I think about this season, the more I think my feelings can be defined by that old and incredibly cheesy saying: Shoot for the moon. Even if you fail, you’ll land amongst the stars.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Man I really hate Nate. He's such a petty little bitch who thinks he's king of poo poo mountain. I'm going to be disappointed if he goes from having a couple good ideas this season to being some tactical mastermind that gets Rupert's team to championship next season. I'm guessing next season will be down to Rupert's team going up against Richmond for the trophy, and I'm worried it's going to be really annoying. I am willing to accept Rupert's team being good in spite of how terrible Nate is.

Sam had a good story too. I wonder if that's the first time that billionaire guy has heard no from someone. If not the first time, then the first time in a long time. He instantly went from thinking Sam was amazing to throwing a temper tantrum. I hope his restaurant works out.

The end of the season was kind of spoiled by that Premier League news, but I guess that was the only logical way for the show to go.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
Great season finale with lots of great moments.

Roy and Jamie.
Roy and the Diamond Dogs.
Masculine Melancholy Renaissance painting
Danny with the penalty, seeing the new puppy, “Football is life”.
Sam’s decision and then explaining it to “Ted”
gently caress NATE


swickles posted:

Can we please change the thtead title to "gently caress you Piers Morgan"

Agreed.

Zero One fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 8, 2021

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


I'm very glad Nate didn't get his redemption and just dug deeper into darkness.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
Rewatching now and I forgot about the lady who is hilariously horny for Keely lmao

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know
One thing you know is going to happen is that the palyers, coaches, everyone will be loving go all out at the West Ham game. They could lose every game, but beating them will be everything. I also expect Trent Crimm to pivot into something like podcasting and driving a ton of people to Richmond. Also, giving even odds on Roy straight up murdering Nate next year. The chaser is Beard stopping him only to do it himself.

Seiyal
Jul 9, 2015

In my mind I just pretend. My brain is my only true friend.
You know, thinking back on it… did we ever see Nate with an iPhone in this series (so far)?

Overall, while it may not have felt as super over-the-top good feelings, I still liked this season. I keep coming back to some of the scenes I enjoyed (the last 5 mins of “Rainbow”, Isaac’s night soccer game to get his confidence back, Jamie and the “signal”) too which is nice.

I’m sure there’s more to digest but it’s been neat to come here every week and see what everyone else thinks of the newest episode. Looking forward to S3!

Seiyal fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Oct 10, 2021

Robobot
Aug 21, 2018
It was OK. My girlfriend said that the entire season feels less sincere than the first, and I think that pretty much sums it up for me as well. Still a good show, but definitely not the same quality or originality of the first season.

And I've actually come around on Nate's story this season. They portrayed those emotions well this entire season and him blowing up on Ted felt like season 1 writing where they weren't afraid to embrace those darker tones every once in awhile. I believe them that they used this season to set up the next one and look forward to it. There's just so much left to dig into!

Rupert/Rebecca
Nate/Ted
Ted/His job away from his son
Dani/dress shoes

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Seiyal posted:

You know, thinking back on it… did we ever see Nate with an iPhone in this series (so far)?

Yes we did, when he was scrolling Twitter.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
That was pretty great. I think what made season 1 exceptional was the complete lack of missteps, whereas I can point to a few things this season I could've done without. But overall a great season of television.

I hadn’t realized until someone on a podcast mentioned it, but the episodes got considerably longer in season 2. If you ignore the Xmas episode (as I plan to on rewatch), every season 2 episode would be the longest season 1 episode. I'm not sure that's the exact problem, maybe if forced they would cut my favourite 2-10 minutes from each episode, but I'm not sure they used the extra time well either.

I wish there had been a little more to Nate's charge that Ted focused so much on him at first and then stopped. Not only does it analogize our spending less time with Ted this season compared to last, I think there's more there about finding a healthy way to deal with not always having the complete attention of someone you idolize. Not saying it's Ted's fault that Nate consistently acted like a dick or anything, but did we have to speed past that discussion so Keeley can laboriously decline a surprise six month vacation?

MiddleOne posted:

See guys!! I told you revealing sources is icky!! I win!!

He wasn't fired for a breach of ethics though? Burning sources makes you unfit as a reporter is all. Still disagree that it was icky in this case. Though I did think of you when Trent popped up hehe.

VagueRant posted:

Was super confused about what we were supposed to take from the final Roy/Keeley scene though.

Same. I can only hope it's setting something up for next season? Kinda wish we spent less time with them overall, we just kept hitting the same notes. Even when I enjoy the acting, I would rather be left wanting more.

Squashing Machine posted:

Not really looking forward to watching this finale tonight. Season 2 has been a complete mess. Ted has been rendered essentially a side character in his own show, and it became apparent halfway through the season that secondary characters who worked well as seasoning (Roy and Keeley's stuff is especially apparent in this) just don't function as a main course. The stakes are thready when they exist at all and the quirky comedy has been replaced with soap opera melodrama covered with a tarp of British swears to make you think it's still the show you loved under there.

Weirdly enough, this season has reminded me of season 2 of One Punch Man. The show doesn't seem to know what to do with itself now that essentially everyone, with a few exceptions, is on Ted's side, so he gets relegated to the sideline while we get subjected to increasingly cloying manufactured relationship drama. Rebecca's wonderful two-faced scheming from Season 1 is replaced with playing App Store grabass and giggling about boys with Keeley. What should have been big, impactful revelations about Ted's past are undercut by bizarre pacing and weird thematic choices (the intercutting with Rebecca's recounting of finding her dad boning Miss Crumpetfield or whoever as though that's the emotional equivalent of being two rooms over when your dad shoots himself in the head just completely let all the air out of a scene the show has been setting up since the darts game). The delight at Roy being a teddy bear juxtaposed against his harsh persona has given way to him just being a teddy bear all the time and telling Keeley how great she is. Sam is written as so aggressively good-natured that you never get a sense of what he actually wants or if he has anything more than vague opinions about anything at all. The only people I'm not exhausted with are the ones used sparingly enough to escape the black hole of writing that's annihilating the core of the show; Higgins, Jamie Tartt, and to a lesser extent Beard, whose big night out was the first time I registered myself as actually having a good time watching this season.

At the end of the day, Season 2 has broken Season 1's spell of underdog spirit and genuine affect, and now just feels like a bunch of rich and famous people screwing around while a football club randomly wins or loses in the distant background. It's going to need a massive course correction in the writer's room before Season 3, but I'm not going to be surprised if they dig their heels in against "the haters" and render the show basically unwatchable. Optimism only gets you so far; eventually, you have to actually put the work in.

I think a couple of your critiques are handled in the season finale, but overall you make a lot of sense!

mcbexx
Jul 4, 2004

British dentistry is
not on trial here!



VagueRant posted:

Was super confused about what we were supposed to take from the final Roy/Keeley scene though.

Keely being successful and having less and less time for their relationship will be what drives Roy into teacher ladies' arms and give Jamie a window to swoop in and reunite with Keely.

Of course that's the most obvious read, so it's not entirely unlikely they will throw us a curveball, who knows...

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
Roy continues to be very bad at understanding other people and their emotions. His first reaction to Keeley turning down his surprise 6 week trip as she is trying to start a new business was to ask if they were breaking up. His reaction to not being in the Vanity Fair photos was also pretty immature. He still has a lot of growing to do although he has taken some small steps this season.

Tequila25
May 12, 2001
Ask me about tapioca.
Nate is clearly displacing his feelings towards his father against Ted.

Edit: and it ties in with a callback to the conversation in Rebecca’s office, “You’re looking at me but I think you’re talking to someone else.”

Tequila25 fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 9, 2021

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club



What??

He was so happy he wasn’t in the magazine? How is that immature?

house of the dad
Jul 4, 2005

Vintersorg posted:

What??

He was so happy he wasn’t in the magazine? How is that immature?

Same reaction. I actually thought this season was too easy on Roy as he’s a guy with a massive anger problem who now has to live a civilian life where that isn’t cool.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
I'm not sure what was so immature about his reaction. His first reaction is to no-sell his disappointment in not being in the pictures in order to keep Keeley from feeling bad about her magazine article. Then he confides in his co-workers that he felt bad about it and that it hurt his feeling. That seems pretty mature to be able to admit that in front of other people.

Spacebump
Dec 24, 2003

Dallas Mavericks: Generations

Cojawfee posted:

I'm not sure what was so immature about his reaction. His first reaction is to no-sell his disappointment in not being in the pictures in order to keep Keeley from feeling bad about her magazine article. Then he confides in his co-workers that he felt bad about it and that it hurt his feeling. That seems pretty mature to be able to admit that in front of other people.

Especially for a fading celebrity used to being A-List.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

house of the dad posted:

Same reaction. I actually thought this season was too easy on Roy as he’s a guy with a massive anger problem who now has to live a civilian life where that isn’t cool.

TBH, other than some structural issues with the show, this is my only significant long term issue with the season. I was hoping that the show would loop this into the toxic masculinity critique that they're exploring with Nate, and they still might, because it's not hard to see it as a issue endemic to the club.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

Vintersorg posted:

What??

He was so happy he wasn’t in the magazine? How is that immature?

When talking to Keeley he hid his true feelings about not being included which is something he has been doing all series. Hiding how he really feels. When talking with the coaches he did finally let his emotions out… to people he felt safe with and not who he really needed to talk to about it (Keeley). I felt that what he was saying was that he felt that Keeley didn’t need him. That she was moving beyond him and had abandoned him. Later at the end of the episode their interaction reenforces this… he is clearly upset that she doesn’t want to vacation with him and tells him to go away for 6 weeks and leave her alone (which wasn’t what she intended but what he felt she said).

If he had slightly more emotional maturity he would have been better able to handle both those situations without thinking that Keeley was breaking up with him because she didn’t need him anymore. He still isn’t willing to talk to Keeley and tell her the truth… that she hurt him.

Anyway, I still love Roy and just hope they intended this self improvement journey for him and it isn’t just some cheap relationship stuff for next season.

Zero One fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 9, 2021

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


Zero One posted:

Roy continues to be very bad at understanding other people and their emotions. His first reaction to Keeley turning down his surprise 6 week trip as she is trying to start a new business was to ask if they were breaking up. His reaction to not being in the Vanity Fair photos was also pretty immature. He still has a lot of growing to do although he has taken some small steps this season.

Keely has been a not great girlfriend this season. Like Roy’s bone headed, but Keely is treating him like a sexy chew toy rather than a partner. The teacher was the opposite. Playful but treated him like an adult.

Keely may have been my favorite character in season one. I actively dislike her as she has become a perfect girl boss character.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/nickmohammed/status/1446498835686064135?s=21

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010



Calling Roy’s lack of caring about the kiss a micro aggression is dumb.

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011


LionArcher posted:

Calling Roy’s lack of caring about the kiss a micro aggression is dumb.

In a show where what happened to Richmond as a result of relegation was enormous consequences, I am sure if someone ever stepped on Nate's toes it would be considered assault by the writers.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011


I'm glad the actor felt there was a lot of nuance to it,






but none of that came through on screen imho. Ted and Nate having no scenes alone for all season in particular is a fragrant example of the show being too clever for its own good. That's a neat idea, but it wasn't well executed at all. A lot of the things in that list are just very poorly executed (or just confusingly executed in the case of the hair).

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

LionArcher posted:

Calling Roy’s lack of caring about the kiss a micro aggression is dumb.

Yeah, but I think Nick Mohammed's making the point that we're meant to see Roy's reaction as indicative of a larger problem in terms of toxicity at the club.

The club treated Nate like poo poo for years. They got better, and he got worse. It sucks, but I can't really feel too bad about it because the long term effects are still there -- I mean, does anyone really think that Jaimie Tart didn't treat Nate just as poorly as Nate treated Will?

Nate should probably quit, get therapy, and move into a job and environment that better appreciates the qualities that led to him being singled out and abused in the first place, and hopefully he can become a less toxic person. But as it is now, AFC Richmond's just reaping the whirlwind.

Edit: Does anyone remember if seeing Dr. Sharon was ever an option for Nate?

Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Oct 9, 2021

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Open Source Idiom posted:

Edit: Does anyone remember if seeing Dr. Sharon was ever an option for Nate?

It was an option for everyone at the club.

VagueRant
May 24, 2012
Actually curious about the abandonment angle for character psychology.

My reading was that Ted dug Nate out of the hole he was in, got him out of being bullied, got him a good position where he could use his skills, and was happy to let him go spread his wings at that point. Ted still valued him and their relationship as seen with the photo, but considered his coaching work done there and could focus on someone else.

And Nate mistook that for abandonment because he wanted constant approval/attention to make up for the lack of it from his father.

But I feel like something is missing there. I guess some of that clashes with the (and I hate to go down this road) entitled incel psychology they're also playing with where he seems angry at the world because as a little socially awkward chubby fella he's never going to have what the Roys and Keeleys have...

Robobot
Aug 21, 2018
Honestly, I could do with out every single romantic relationship they've come up with. Roy/Keeley was fine as a side story, but they were just kinda annoying up until the final episode. They're spinning Keeley as an amazing girl boss, but all we've seen her do is chat about boys with Rebecca, hang out with her boyfriend, and help Nate buy a suit/ask for a table.

I think they should have focused on all the business moves she was making and how it was affecting Roy's insecurities.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Robobot posted:

Honestly, I could do with out every single romantic relationship they've come up with. Roy/Keeley was fine as a side story, but they were just kinda annoying up until the final episode. They're spinning Keeley as an amazing girl boss, but all we've seen her do is chat about boys with Rebecca, hang out with her boyfriend, and help Nate buy a suit/ask for a table.

I think they should have focused on all the business moves she was making and how it was affecting Roy's insecurities.

She's been constantly shown coming into the locker room to find people for sponsorship stuff, they definitely have shown her being great at finding sponsors and getting deals done.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

I didn't even notice (or totally forgot about) Ted having the picture on his desk at home, that's amazing.

The "Ted and Nate don't have a scene alone for awhile" stuff is silly, agreed. Like someone mentioned, Ted and Keeley don't spend screen time together either this season, are they mortal enemies now too?

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

VagueRant posted:

Actually curious about the abandonment angle for character psychology.

My reading was that Ted dug Nate out of the hole he was in, got him out of being bullied, got him a good position where he could use his skills, and was happy to let him go spread his wings at that point. Ted still valued him and their relationship as seen with the photo, but considered his coaching work done there and could focus on someone else.

And Nate mistook that for abandonment because he wanted constant approval/attention to make up for the lack of it from his father.

But I feel like something is missing there. I guess some of that clashes with the (and I hate to go down this road) entitled incel psychology they're also playing with where he seems angry at the world because as a little socially awkward chubby fella he's never going to have what the Roys and Keeleys have...

Yeah I agree with most of this.

Nate wanted Ted to be his new dad and felt Ted didn't care about him in the end. But Ted literally put Nate's picture at his home next to his real son. Nate just didn't realize it. It's tragic.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
Jan Maas #1 character of season 2. What a champ. And using his powers for good at the end was lovely.

Also now I wanna see Phil Dunster's list of subtle indications that Jamie is actually, idk, Rupert in a skin suit. Item one: intentionally mispronouncing Dani's and Jan's names.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
I'm so sad Ted Lasso is over. It sounds like I enjoyed Season 2 more than many of you, even if it didn't consistently hit the highs of Season 1. But I'm convinced watching it week to week affected the pacing for everyone, because I (and probably the majority of the audience) discovered Season 1 belatedly and binged it. But the weekly viewing was one of the highlights of this dismal year for me, and it made Fridays even more of an event to look forward to all week.

What did people think of The Mosquito Coast? My wife and I went in cold, with no information about it at all, aside from Justin Theroux is in it, and we've seen the first two episodes so far. I'm intrigued, but I'm not so sure about my wife. It's heavy and stressful and has strong Breaking Bad vibes for me, but I never read any reviews or opinions of it, good or bad. Did it get ignored or dismissed as it aired, or quickly forgotten about, or just disliked?

Robobot
Aug 21, 2018

njsykora posted:

She's been constantly shown coming into the locker room to find people for sponsorship stuff, they definitely have shown her being great at finding sponsors and getting deals done.

Yeah, but that was usually used as an aside to get her in the scene for something else or for someone else's character (like the coffee maker with Nate or Bantr with Rebecca/Sam). I guess my real complaint is I just wanted more Keeleycentric stuff that wasn't tied to Roy or Rebecca.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

What did people think of The Mosquito Coast? My wife and I went in cold, with no information about it at all, aside from Justin Theroux is in it, and we've seen the first two episodes so far. I'm intrigued, but I'm not so sure about my wife. It's heavy and stressful and has strong Breaking Bad vibes for me, but I never read any reviews or opinions of it, good or bad. Did it get ignored or dismissed as it aired, or quickly forgotten about, or just disliked?

I think it just fell through the cracks, it happens to a lot of stuff especially on a relatively small service like TV+. Like I've never seen anyone say anything about most of the TV+ series' outside the really big ones. Acapulco started and I've seen nothing about that, no-one talks about Truth Be Told and Schmigamagoon was basically forgotten after the first episode.

I did enjoy that trailer for The Afterparty that was before Lasso this week though, even though it doesn't seem to be on TV+ and has no release date and jesus christ why is it so hard to just give the app a single library section to show everything.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

Robobot posted:

Yeah, but that was usually used as an aside to get her in the scene for something else or for someone else's character (like the coffee maker with Nate or Bantr with Rebecca/Sam). I guess my real complaint is I just wanted more Keeleycentric stuff that wasn't tied to Roy or Rebecca.

I think one of the "problems" people had with this season is that everyone wants more. But they want more of everything.

More Keeley story
More Nate story
More Ted's mental health story
More soccer story
More sponser problems story
More Dani
More Jamie
More Colin*

And I agree. I would love if the show could build on everything. But they don't have enough time so they could only have small glimpses of some stories here and there. And that is bound to disappoint people who wanted a lot more of something this season and didn't get it.

*Literally what the AV Club reviewer has been writing about wanting more of all season.

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sonatinas
Apr 15, 2003

Seattle Karate Vs. L.A. Karate
So west ham going to compete for a champions league spot next year with Richmond lol?

Rupert don’t have those deep of pockets unless both teams pull off a leicester with less money

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