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PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


c interviewing s: finally loving interviewed someone right for the job. we came close to throwing out her resume because at first glance it looked like someone who was involved entirely in testing and was trying to pass themselves off as a dev but when we looked closer at her portfolio saw that she was exactly who we were looking for. just got off the phone and it sounds like it will actually be a fit. we've turned down like ten people now and i was starting to ask myself if we were being too picky

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champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Plorkyeran posted:

people don't actually get bonuses or raises for making their employer money

my current client just changed the bonus kpi for the team I’m embedded in. their bonus went from looking to be in the range 1-200k dkk to nothing

they were less than pleased to say the least. I wonder if any of them will quit over it

ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
This morning my mom forwarded standard recruiter spam clearly meant for me that for some reason was sent to her email. Our email addresses are significantly different to the point that there’s no way they fat-fingered something like [first inital]lastname@yos.pos (plus it’s all sent via automated tooling anyway) :psyduck:

I’m sure there’s a million graph DBs out there with harvested data that have an edge between us labeled “Mother/Son” so I guess some recruiting tool decided that means her email is my email?

Joe Chip
Jan 4, 2014
nevermind

Joe Chip fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Oct 7, 2021

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

champagne posting posted:

my current client just changed the bonus kpi for the team I’m embedded in. their bonus went from looking to be in the range 1-200k dkk to nothing

they were less than pleased to say the least. I wonder if any of them will quit over it

bonuses are garbage outside of things like sales. every time I worked at a place with any kind of bonus structure in place made me a) indifferent when I got it b) pissed when I didn’t.

exe cummings
Jan 22, 2005

ThePeavstenator posted:

This morning my mom forwarded standard recruiter spam clearly meant for me that for some reason was sent to her email. Our email addresses are significantly different to the point that there’s no way they fat-fingered something like [first inital]lastname@yos.pos (plus it’s all sent via automated tooling anyway) :psyduck:

I’m sure there’s a million graph DBs out there with harvested data that have an edge between us labeled “Mother/Son” so I guess some recruiting tool decided that means her email is my email?

when I called the HR people at my new job, their caller ID told them my father’s first name. very weird since my father and I haven’t shared a phone plan since 2008

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


quote:

What a last 2 years we've had! I hope you're staying positive and testing negative!

:fuckoff:

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Kernel Sanders posted:

bonuses are garbage outside of things like sales. every time I worked at a place with any kind of bonus structure in place made me a) indifferent when I got it b) pissed when I didn’t.

it depends on the sector, in finance a 10-15% bonus for non sales roles isn’t unusual. that said in my experience it’s usually done to make up for the lack of raises

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


yeah when i worked for a finance company i got like 15% bonus in a good year. new company the bonus sucks but base is almost double what i was making there so, lol

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



my bonus target is 15% of salary. multiplier is based on performance. "meets expectations" is 1.0. i got 1.2 for exceeds expectations and 1.4 for strongly exceeds. id rather have it as salary for obvious reasons but getting a big pile o cash to do something with or open palm slam into savings isn't nothing

Soylent Majority
Jul 13, 2020

Dune 2: Chicks At The Same Time

qirex posted:

it depends on the sector, in finance a 10-15% bonus for non sales roles isn’t unusual. that said in my experience it’s usually done to make up for the lack of raises

yep - finance loves bonuses, so an it drone can have an easy 10% target, that after going through the bullshit board picking a number for total bonuses throughout the company we typically end up around 15%.

also glhf trying to get a raise, my company doesn’t believe in colas

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




when i worked in finance, we had quarterly bonuses equal to 8-30% of your total compensation for the respective quarter. getting 8% meant you're about to be fired, and you could go above 30%, but would be paid in additional pto

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


one of the things i really liked about my last job was our bonuses were based entirely on objective metrics, our billable hours for the quarter, and it paid out quarterly. so if you had a lovely quarter it didn't completely gently caress your bonus for the year

new job's base salary pays more than last job's base + bonus though soo

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




ours was similar, my department was measured by a single kpi basically, so if we hit our targets for the quarter 25% bonus was guaranteed, with last 5% being the colleague feedback/individual performance bit

Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
things you probably shouldn't put on your cover letter:

"I have a sexual assault conviction but it doesn't affect my work"

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

what is a bonus?

Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


carry on then posted:

what is a bonus?

A miserable pile of singles. But enough talk

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Xik posted:

things you probably shouldn't put on your cover letter:

"I have a sexual assault conviction but it doesn't affect my work"

it's better than not putting it on your cover letter and wasting a ton of time interviewing with companies that'll end up rejecting you when they do a background check

suffix
Jul 27, 2013

Wheeee!

Xik posted:

things you probably shouldn't put on your cover letter:

"I have a sexual assault conviction but it doesn't affect my work"

".., which makes me uniquely suited for a position at uber"

kdrudy
Sep 19, 2009

suffix posted:

".., which makes me uniquely suited for a position at uber"

Blizzard as well

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
Did an interview for a 6 month contract/contract to hire position and it went well. Except I have almost no desire to do a contract role unless the $$ is nuts. Should I just continue down the rabbit hole for interview experience? How should I convert a yearly salary to $/HR?

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

I’d want at least 30% more than an equivalent full time salary, assuming it’s a w2 contract with benefits, ie if you normally make 100k ask for at least 65/hr

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
divide by 2040 to get ostensible annual => hourly wage. mult by 2.5 to get at a deec contract wage. i used to straight double but not anymore. too many ft jobs to be had

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
if the number gets too eyepoppin try billing weekly

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




a dingus posted:

Did an interview for a 6 month contract/contract to hire position and it went well. Except I have almost no desire to do a contract role unless the $$ is nuts. Should I just continue down the rabbit hole for interview experience? How should I convert a yearly salary to $/HR?

up to you to decide to continue. to get gross hourly rate, assuming paid holidays and sick leave and regular office schedule, just divide the yearly salary by 250, and and then that number by 8 or however many hours is the average working day length in your whereabouts

if your contracting role, like many, offers no paid holiday or sick leave for legal reasons, then what you should be seeing is at least 10-20% higher hourly rate than a non-contract role for the same would offer, since you will have to “pay” for your absences with an actual loss of income. different countries will also have different taxation regimes for contractors, so e.g. i personally ignore anything contract that’s less than 150% of my “office salary” for long term contracts, say a permanent contract reviewed every 6 months, to actually break even and make _some_ profit. the added hassle of short term contracts is a lot, so i add extra 100% if it’s shorter than 6 months, and another 100% on top if it’s shorter than 3 months or is otherwise a one-off thing

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Oct 8, 2021

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
bonuses? gently caress I haven’t had one in years and it was usually $100 or so.

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe

cinci zoo sniper posted:

up to you to decide to continue. to get gross hourly rate, assuming paid holidays and sick leave and regular office schedule, just divide the yearly salary by 250, and and then that number by 8 or however many hours is the average working day length in your whereabouts

if your contracting role, like many, offers no paid holiday or sick leave for legal reasons, then what you should be seeing is at least 10-20% higher hourly rate than a non-contract role for the same would offer, since you will have to “pay” for your absences with an actual loss of income. different countries will also have different taxation regimes for contractors, so e.g. i personally ignore anything contract that’s less than 150% of my “office salary” for long term contracts, say a permanent contract reviewed every 6 months, to actually break even and make _some_ profit. the added hassle of short term contracts is a lot, so i add extra 100% if it’s shorter than 6 months, and another 100% on top if it’s shorter than 3 months or is otherwise a one-off thing

Cool. Good info. Thank you & thank you to the other posters who chimed in.

I ended up doing some more research on the company and the reviews are *poo poo*. Definitely don't want to work there. It sounds like turnover is huge & there is no wlb.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

theflyingexecutive posted:

Here's the new resume, with a couple more questions:

-how up front do I get in a cover letter about my experience?
-should I be looking for junior/associate/? level pm work so that I could learn how to do it for real?
-where best to blast out this resume? just the usual indeed/monster type places?
-apparently most (all?) staffing agencies are an indentured servitude scam, how do I get recruiters or a recruiting agency's attention?
-should I include agile/scrum/pm-specific skills on my resume after I learn more of the language or will HMs be pissed I never used them in a real work setting?

I'm feeling confident, yet very very overwhelmed. rereading everyone's v helpful posts has been almost therapeutic, thank you all again



p deece format imo

shoeberto
Jun 13, 2020

which way to the MACHINES?

ThePeavstenator posted:

I’m sure there’s a million graph DBs out there with harvested data that have an edge between us labeled “Mother/Son” so I guess some recruiting tool decided that means her email is my email?

Amazon recruiters keep reaching out to me on an email address that I have never used in my professional career, ever. No resumes, no applications, nothing. But somehow they know who I am and have some vague idea that I do work that AWS might be hiring for. It's really loving uncomfortable. I wonder if you got slurped up in a system like that with your mom's email associated to you.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone

ThePeavstenator posted:

This morning my mom forwarded standard recruiter spam clearly meant for me that for some reason was sent to her email. Our email addresses are significantly different to the point that there’s no way they fat-fingered something like [first inital]lastname@yos.pos (plus it’s all sent via automated tooling anyway) :psyduck:

I’m sure there’s a million graph DBs out there with harvested data that have an edge between us labeled “Mother/Son” so I guess some recruiting tool decided that means her email is my email?

Maybe you used that email address to apply for colleges?

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
i get about 1 recruiter email a day. most times its boring/desperate crypto and fintech. here’s a fun one that dropped.

quote:

I hope you're doing well and staying safe. I'm ---- from Robinhood. I came across your profile and I'm impressed - you'd make a phenomenal addition to our growing design team at Robinhood. We are looking for more designers to help us best support our 12M+ customers and help us elevate our product to the next level.
If you're interested in being on a design team where you can have a true impact on our product and our customer experience, I'd love to tell you more.
Would you be open to a call?

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



doesnt really seem notable to me other than robinhood seeming, uh, risky. but probably less risky than your average startup, and they pay faang style figgies

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

Achmed Jones posted:

doesnt really seem notable to me other than robinhood seeming, uh, risky. but probably less risky than your average startup, and they pay faang style figgies

I mentioned it in this thread but 6 months or so ago I had a call with a robinhood recruiter that was staffing up a team to build a fraud detection platform from the ground up in time for their IPO launch. They had basically just started and the launch was 2 months away, lol.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




ADINSX posted:

I mentioned it in this thread but 6 months or so ago I had a call with a robinhood recruiter that was staffing up a team to build a fraud detection platform from the ground up in time for their IPO launch. They had basically just started and the launch was 2 months away, lol.

as an ex-financial compliance guy, i… uhhh… :staredog:

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i worked across the street from robinhood in my old masters advisors vr training dealio

it really is the most menlo park poo poo. no they dont know wtf theyre doin

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

bob dobbs is dead posted:

divide by 2040 to get ostensible annual => hourly wage. mult by 2.5 to get at a deec contract wage. i used to straight double but not anymore. too many ft jobs to be had

+1 On this

disclaimer tho: I've never hired a contract labor person, 2x base is what I'd want to contract when I was an IC

bob dobbs is dead posted:

the most menlo park poo poo. no they dont know wtf theyre doin

SV VCs have so much money they give it to anyone who can give them a good story to brag about at BBQs with other VCs

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Oct 9, 2021

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008
Hey, I've been a PM in a healthcare company for like 4 or 5 years at this point and posted up stream in thread about my PM journey and finding jobs as well! Please forgive the giant incoming block of text and please feel free to correct me if anyone has thoughts or opinions. I am only freshly in the job market and have limited, but hopefully direct and helpful experience with job searching and resume writing!

My thoughts layered in

theflyingexecutive posted:

Here's the new resume, with a couple more questions:

-how up front do I get in a cover letter about my experience?

I've never written a cover letter. I find them unnecessary to the process and I would advise being confident in front of the hiring manager or he'll just skip right past you for someone who seemingly KNOWS they can do the job. I'll defer to people with more experience as I've just started looking for job but I've gotten like 9 interviews in the last two weeks since I started actually looking. also the market is kinda like that rn i guess but....

You may want to consider splitting the difference with a small professional summary who explains who you are and what you do at the top of the resume, for example in the top right corner there is a bunch of blank space.

For example, here is a poorly de-identified version I use, if you recognize this no you dont thnx.

Product Manager and Solutions Consultant with XXX years of cloud-based SaaS enterprise experience building and growing [type of software], [industry specifier] and [type of software] in agile environments. Experience leading teams and collaborating cross-functionally to design, iterate, construct and deliver innovative [industry vocab] products, features and [specifier] software that start with small MVPs while constantly incorporating feedback and market research. Provide a holistic view of how business processes impact product development and user needs



-should I be looking for junior/associate/? level pm work so that I could learn how to do it for real?

There are very many paths into product management. Standard entry points often times come from Implementation, Solutions and even Marketing or Sales (Engineering) sometimes. These are all positions or departments with a high degree of external people talking which is something that engineers and developers do not typically do well. There is a very small set of people who can talk to Joe Blow user who isn't sure what a browser is and translate some of that......market information and end user feedback..... to engineers as user stories or specifications. This is generally your primary responsibility outside of specifically TPM positions or PM positions that work very very closely with engineering. Don't apply to these unless you're ready to talk about software architecture.

I would for sure recommend shooting for Junior/Associate/General PM roles as senior roles sometimes have multiple roadmaps or backlogs they own and I'm unsure how comfortable you'd be juggling that in an agile enviorment without any previous exposure to the software development lifecycle and agile concepts. If you've a bunch of Project/Program Management experience feel free to ignore this cause as previous posters said everyone's agile workflow is different and it doesn't even really matter.

I think that anyone can be a PM though if you can inhabit the space between users and engineering while effectively communicating to different organizational stakeholders while having minimal OFFICAL authority.

-where best to blast out this resume? just the usual indeed/monster type places?

Literally just been doing Linkedin. The market is really hot right now for candidates. You can also look at indeed and angel list or actually going to companies websites and looking. I have a screen for TikTok next week which is a huge company and i just sent a resume in via their careers page. :shrug:

-apparently most (all?) staffing agencies are an indentured servitude scam, how do I get recruiters or a recruiting agency's attention?

I'm unsure about this. Sorry I havent used any recruiters or anything.

-should I include agile/scrum/pm-specific skills on my resume after I learn more of the language or will HMs be pissed I never used them in a real work setting?

As previous posters have said, it is now time to maybe stretch da truth a little bit here and any time you had standard morning meetings at the start of shifts are now stand up meetings. yay. I would maybe read about general agile ceremonies like requirements, architecture, sprint planning, retrospectives and such just so that you can layer the vocab into a conversation or so you don't look lost if they ask you about it.

I'm feeling confident, yet very very overwhelmed. rereading everyone's v helpful posts has been almost therapeutic, thank you all again



Regarding the resume specifically:

Talent Coordinator
- How many departments did you coordinate and what was achieved because of your coordination? you like uh decreased time spent standing around waiting for stuff, you managed dependencies proactively to ensure multiple schedules aligned to deliver xyz on time, something like this. it doesn't need to be as specific as like "Grew market share by 69% or decresed bounce rate by 420%" but talk about making something better.

- How many actors - ish is included in this? I would also attempt to layer in something like ~ distributed network of 200+ full time employees~ ? I think you could frame this pretty well. not sure how though

- Can you frame a bit how you maintained compliance? Did you hold cross functional multi departmental meetings with external subject matter experts and internal HR personnel? Did you do significant research and communicate regulatory knowledge to stakeholders to influence strategic decision making?

-so this is actually really nice and uses timeframes and budgets which makes me excited. Can you expand on this (or PM me?) because that's a fuckin banger that I would maybe lead with and spend a few lines talking about it.

General note:

Did you ever.....Proactively identify bottlenecks, provide escalation management or anticipate and make tradeoff and balances requirements versus technical constraints while managing project timelines? using your industries vocab?

Try to be action oriented and provide an outcome for that action in your resume generally. I would stress any sort of like multi-departmental meetings and coordinating you did or were part of ?

LRA:
did you ever suggest improvements to your manager regarding the laboratory techniques or is that a no no? I am not familiar with this space. sry

I see you presented.....Is it safe to say you are comfortable expressing complex technical concepts to non technical or specialized audiences? Are you comfortable or at ease speaking and presenting to small and large groups across all organizational levels including C-suite?

Did you ever provide training to fellow employee's? cause thats a big one too.

Instructor:
- ok, cut this if you need space imo unless you can frame this....better. I'm sorry I have no specific guidance.

- Really like your learning growth opportunities language and bullet point.

- Managed reporting etc etc is pretty powerful. Again I'd like to know a little more if you can share but like....are you familiar with maintaining compliance through layered regulatory environments, because thats what it sounds like? to what extent were you the one who managed a team or did it yourself that gathered this data? Did you have to create a repeatable process in this space even if no one other than you did it?




Bottom stuff:
Collapse maybe education and publication to the same little box?

Is your Volunteer Work a huge value add? Can you talk about the stuff you did there?

Cleaning the bottom up gives you more room to talk about stuffs.

Hope I helped a bit and this already looks super solid and you've come a long way!!

e: In my opinion, generally from the hiring side not the candidate side, I always considered explicitly listing microsoft software you know outside of like.... PowerBI and Azure stuff to be an indicator that this person is super junior. Maybe kill that?

e: I also found it really helpful to look at job descriptions and resume samples and than be like oh yeah i did that! and rework it for my own use. It will def help it read more consistently with other PM style resumes

Waroduce fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 9, 2021

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

CarForumPoster posted:


SV VCs have so much money they give it to anyone who can give them a good story to brag about at BBQs with other VCs

thats the seed round. A and up you need users and revenue, which they legit have in spades. just not any real ability to stay out of jail lol

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
you don't want revenue for an A round. once you have revenue you're valued on that rather than whatever metric you can scrounge up that gives a nice up and to the right graph. you do need something that's going up fast, though.

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
their actual revenue went up and to the right all properly tho

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