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Vincent posted:God Emperor Of Dune: In this one, Idaho sucks. As the above said.....Leto II knew Duncan through Paul. And Duncan sacrificed himself (as was his job) to protect Paul, Jessica, and Kynes.
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Oct 7, 2021 02:17
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Also Duncan is the quintessential Chad to Leto's ultimate Virgin, and Leto is kind of obsessed with his own contradictions and the displacement of his sexuality
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Oct 7, 2021 02:30
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Duncan was faithful to the Atreides, but it was for who they were, not mindlessly or for loyalty's sake. He was definitely more independent-minded and less cynical (or morally compromised) than Stilgar or Thufir, and probably Gurney too. IIRC someone (Jessica?) had a line to the effect that he was a better Atreides than most who bore the name. With the whole structure of the Golden Path, not to mention the traits Leto was aiming to produce in his breeding program, it makes sense that all of that might make Duncan uniquely valuable.
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Oct 7, 2021 04:14
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Martman posted:Also Duncan is the quintessential Chad to Leto's ultimate Virgin, and Leto is kind of obsessed with his own contradictions and the displacement of his sexuality In case it isn't clear to anyone following along without having read the books, I can't recall the precise details but the last Duncan ghola of the era of the giant penis god who cannot ever gently caress cucks the OG God Emperor of Mankind with the idealized woman the Tlelexliu create to destroy (successfully insofar as he sort of choses his death) Leto II with love. e: this one is spoiled because it's just following the logic of the story to a natural conclusion but it's one of those conclusions that's at least a little NMS: I guess you could call it an absurd but real aspect of why there's tension in whether Leto II is considered a potential abomination. I want to nod to one good thing here, which is that I think Herbert goes so far to be specific that Ghanima was excluded from this because he wanted to make clear that Alia wasn't a character whose story he needed or wanted to retread. But one significant point that is made with the character of Alia is that however badly Herbert expressed it, his point is that creating a child with the memories or their parents and every last ancestor loving from birth is effectively a terrible act of child abuse. Ghanima gets magic protection because, I think, Herbert understood he put Alia through hell to make this point in his own way, which was flawed but probably sincere. Leto II very much suggests that he can never be normal in this way, that he's in some senses giving up something was already taken from him. That's why it's called "abomination," without the dumb Baron ghost poo poo. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 04:22
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Hodgepodge posted:In case it isn't clear to anyone following along without having read the books, I can't recall the precise details but the last Duncan ghola of the era of the giant penis god who cannot ever gently caress cucks the OG God Emperor of Mankind with the idealized woman the Tlelexliu create to destroy (successfully insofar as he sort of choses his death) Leto II with love. It was the Ixians that made her not the Tleilaxu
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Oct 7, 2021 04:27
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AnEdgelord posted:It was the Ixians that made her not the Tleilaxu poo poo. Did they also make Malky I think it was? I like how Leto II basically hangs out with people designed to kill him by major power blocks and/or himself.
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Oct 7, 2021 04:38
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Jo Joestar posted:Duncan was faithful to the Atreides, but it was for who they were, not mindlessly or for loyalty's sake. He was definitely more independent-minded and less cynical (or morally compromised) than Stilgar or Thufir, and probably Gurney too. IIRC someone (Jessica?) had a line to the effect that he was a better Atreides than most who bore the name. Was it Book 4 or 5 when someone comes across the Fremen who had memories of them (Maybe a Duncan Ghola) and was like "what the hell happened these people are pussies now" Also not sure how much future book discussion needs to be spoiled in a movie about the first book, but also there is no way they ever get to making a movie of these
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Oct 7, 2021 08:25
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The Dune Encyclopedia's entry on all the Duncan gholas was hilarious. I hope some of their adventures makes it into a miniseries or something.
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Oct 7, 2021 10:39
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Hodgepodge posted:poo poo. Did they also make Malky I think it was? I like how Leto II basically hangs out with people designed to kill him by major power blocks and/or himself. People are always doing this in Dune. Someone who hates them sends them a "gift" and they go "this might be a trap, but I'm probably too cool for it to work on me". Or doing the obvious thing and pushing it down the nearest sandworm is playing into the enemy's hands somehow (or hastening a Jihad). This should have been a mechanic in that new Dune: Betrayal board game, but it seems like they went for a more straight Werewolf clone.
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Oct 7, 2021 10:40
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Hodgepodge posted:poo poo. Did they also make Malky I think it was? I like how Leto II basically hangs out with people designed to kill him by major power blocks and/or himself. I don't remember any suggestion that Malky is anything but a regular Ixian. But it's revealed that Hwi is a clone of Malky, given hormones in utero to make her female. This ends up breaking Moneo, and to a certain extent, Leto.
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Oct 7, 2021 14:08
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All I'm getting from this is that everything after the original Dune book is Star Wars EU at best and Zybourne Clock fanfic at worst
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Oct 7, 2021 14:39
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I wouldn't sign on to that. Though they don't totally work for the most part, the non-failson dune sequels are still operating on an entirely higher order of creativity and writing quality than the star war EU
No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 15:11
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Failed Imagineer posted:All I'm getting from this is that everything after the original Dune book is Star Wars EU at best and Zybourne Clock fanfic at worst Nah, they get wierd but they're still infinitely better than most if not all EU poo poo. I mean I thought the Thrawn (sp?) stuff was rad 20 years ago or whatever but lol
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Oct 7, 2021 15:30
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Yadoppsi posted:The Dune Encyclopedia's entry on all the Duncan gholas was hilarious. I hope some of their adventures makes it into a miniseries or something. Each episode is just the lifespan of one individual ghola. sean10mm posted:Nah, they get wierd but they're still infinitely better than most if not all EU poo poo. Who would win in a fight, Paolo or Luuke? I do like Joruus C'baoth. Perhaps in the Dune setting, there could be a man who consumed the water of life, lived, and yet refused to align with the Bene Gesserit, and refused to enact the golden path. Wait a minute... To relate to the new movie (which I haven't seen yet), is there a scene that shows the Atreides' raid on the Harkonnen spice reserves? I imagine if such a scene existed, it'd be clandestine explosives, such as from Goldeneye. I'd like to imagine it's just a few dudes getting higher than anyone has ever been before and then OD'ing.
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Oct 7, 2021 16:37
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Messiah's a perfectly reasonable book, it's just nothing special.
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Oct 7, 2021 16:41
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Final trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0HgHet0sxg
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Oct 7, 2021 20:55
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Seen it twice in the theater now and it was even greater on the second viewing!
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Oct 7, 2021 22:49
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Shanty posted:People are always doing this in Dune. Someone who hates them sends them a "gift" and they go "this might be a trap, but I'm probably too cool for it to work on me". Or doing the obvious thing and pushing it down the nearest sandworm is playing into the enemy's hands somehow (or hastening a Jihad). that's why they keep trying to find a way to make a friend who will end up killing paul/leto ii. dudes need a friend. in general having to accept gifts that are probably designed to kill you somehow is another thing that just comes with aristocracy (also kind of a Theme in dune). that's why voltaire's advise in candide for living a safe, happy life in early modernity was be unfuckably ugly and subsistence farm dirt on some land no one else wants that isn't one the way anywhere. feudalism was a great improvement over less stable, slave dependent ancient systems they tended to replace, much like capitalism is a huge improvement over feudalism except insofar as it allows us to do so much it might destroy us. but feudalism and capitalism still suck poo poo, they just sucked a lot less poo poo than the things they developed out of. Cognac McCarthy posted:I don't remember any suggestion that Malky is anything but a regular Ixian. But it's revealed that Hwi is a clone of Malky, given hormones in utero to make her female. This ends up breaking Moneo, and to a certain extent, Leto. i guess it's the transphobia that's supposed to provide the unsettling part because you'd think a gender essentialist would be more comfortable with biological sex being a hugely determinant factor in one's fundamental identity , implying that a female Malky should be inherently different from a male Malky in roughly consistent ways inherent in being "female." which is also how it basically is though it never stood out for me because if anything the various gholas being so similar to each other in general already struck me as less plausible than any other element, and the formative experiences implicit in being socially identified as a woman easily fill the same role as  in explaining why Hwi was a very different person as a whole than Malky.
Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Oct 8, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 09:42
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Hodgepodge posted:i guess it's the transphobia that's supposed to provide the unsettling part because you'd think a gender essentialist would be more comfortable with biological sex being a hugely determinant factor in one's fundamental identity , implying that a female Malky should be inherently different from a male Malky in roughly consistent ways inherent in being "female." which is also how it basically is though it never stood out for me because if anything the various gholas being so similar to each other in general already struck me as less plausible than any other element, and the formative experiences implicit in being socially identified as a woman easily fill the same role as Herbert might very well have been transphobic, but I don't read Hwi as being meant to work as some kind of transphobic trap scare... thing. Plus Hwi was also different than Malky because she was brainwashed/conditioned/programmed to be, right? Or am I misremembering that? I thought kind of the whole point is that they manipulated her into being such a good honey trap for Leto II that it ended up predisposing her to loving him for real and not doing the mission.
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Oct 8, 2021 13:39
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sean10mm posted:Herbert might very well have been transphobic, but I don't read Hwi as being meant to work as some kind of transphobic trap scare... thing. i checked and i guess malky is considered her uncle and yeah she was conditioned, etc. she basically actually worked perfectly, it just ultimately didn't really impact leto ii's plans in any great way
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Oct 8, 2021 15:35
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Was it Book 4 or 5 when someone comes across the Fremen who had memories of them (Maybe a Duncan Ghola) and was like "what the hell happened these people are pussies now" Book 4 God Emperor. The Fremen of that time like, cultivate grass and live in small homes instead of the caves. Duncan expresses how lame the Fremen are now and the one that hears this pulls his knife and talks a big game but Duncan's amusement at the situation almost embarrasses him to death.
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Oct 9, 2021 05:16
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Saw this the other day in a huge room with about six people in it. Loved it. I thought the last act was too long but it’s hard to see what to cut – maybe I’m complaining that it felt bitty. The changes were mostly good and/or reasonable: using the opening infodump to focus on the Fremen was smart, and the bullfighting motif gets a lot of use, but I remember Kynes’ death in the novel being more interesting. Lots of lovely images – the desert, the spider-thing, the tattooed woman in the niche, the worms, Harkonnen flying around and lurking in his oil, the hovering lightwheel things, the jerboa and the beetle, sacred trees burning while prisoners are executed beside them, the big sweep and turn across Arrakeen, the Atreides ships rising out of the water… (I don’t remember if that last one is from the book, but it’s good.) I especially loved the cut of the Atreides soldiers charging the Harkonnens and then an explosion turning the whole screen into fire. Real cinema, its glory and strength. I just wish it had gone weirder, more aristocratic, with less of the 20th century and Star Wars stuff. It’s ironic that filmed sf lags behind the written stuff when it comes to descriptions and images, but that’s what happens when you have to pay for your special effects. And I would have liked the strangeness shared with the Atreides, rather than the fat bald mumblers hogging it. One quick question about a line I’m sure I misheard: did the film really say that the Harkonnens were the ones who discovered the spice, 80 years ago? That can’t be right, but what was the actual line?
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Oct 9, 2021 06:34
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battlepigeon posted:Seen it twice in the theater now and it was even greater on the second viewing! wait a minute, it's finally out??????????? WHAT SERIOUSLY?? oh gently caress edit: two more weeks here, ugh
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Oct 9, 2021 13:45
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I'm only on book 3 (it's very boring so far, I kinda liked 2) but wow those horny quotes from the later novels sure are something. I dunno what it is with old scifi/fantasy authors and pedo adjacent stuff too, it's endemic. The 10 year old leto is having visions of future sex with a woman and he describes it as "adult beefswelling in his loins" which is the most unattractive and psycho phrasing I've ever read. Also does "making her toilet" mean something else in the 1960s cause he only ever describes women (and a tiger) doing it? It's like, the lady Jessica, while taking a dump, pondered the golden path.
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Oct 10, 2021 00:09
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Communist Thoughts posted:It's like, the lady Jessica, while taking a dump, pondered the golden path. This is the most believable thing in any of the books.
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Oct 10, 2021 00:19
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Communist Thoughts posted:Also does "making her toilet" mean something else in the 1960s cause he only ever describes women (and a tiger) doing it? Putting on make up.
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Oct 10, 2021 00:32
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Schwarzwald posted:Putting on make up. thats what i thought but then why do the tigers do it
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Oct 10, 2021 00:37
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Communist Thoughts posted:"adult beefswelling in his loins" I'm never going to be able to forget this phrase, thanks a lot 
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Oct 10, 2021 01:09
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It has a certain "shrimping my youngman" vibe to it.
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Oct 10, 2021 01:27
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Forums username Adult Beefswelling
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Oct 10, 2021 01:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:Forums username Adult Beefswelling Morning Would
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Oct 10, 2021 01:44
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Communist Thoughts posted:I'm only on book 3 (it's very boring so far, I kinda liked 2) but wow those horny quotes from the later novels sure are something. clasic sci fi has the combination of it being dominated by super nerdy dudes and also being adjacent to the 1960s 
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Oct 10, 2021 02:47
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Communist Thoughts posted:I'm only on book 3 (it's very boring so far, I kinda liked 2) but wow those horny quotes from the later novels sure are something. I am struggling to find the quote now but I remember reading that when the police caught and arrested pedophiles in the US they were almost always Star Trek fans
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Oct 10, 2021 07:54
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I am struggling to find the quote now but I remember reading that when the police caught and arrested pedophiles in the US they were almost always Star Trek fans officer, her planet actually makes a full orbit around it's sun every three months, so technically she is well above the age of consent
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Oct 10, 2021 07:57
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I am struggling to find the quote now but I remember reading that when the police caught and arrested pedophiles in the US they were almost always Star Trek fans Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Oct 10, 2021 |
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Oct 10, 2021 08:05
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Kinda weird, isn’t Star Trek the antithesis of libertarian
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Oct 10, 2021 08:16
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Communist Thoughts posted:thats what i thought but then why do the tigers do it It's cleaning its face, like someone does before putting on makeup.
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Oct 10, 2021 09:49
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Payndz posted:So now we know who Neelix was meant to appeal to. There’s literally a character who’s a full grown woman that’s only a few years old.
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Oct 10, 2021 13:23
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david_a posted:There’s literally a character who’s a full grown woman that’s only a few years old. It's creepy either way, but isn't the "covert" pedo stuff in fiction usually more like "looks 12, is actually 600 years old so Actually It's Fine"?
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Oct 10, 2021 13:32
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Hodgepodge posted:Morning Would Morning did.
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Oct 10, 2021 14:23
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