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There was a golden age of nerd shows where Lost, Heroes, Veronica Mars, Stargate, and Battlestar Galactica were all airing at once and they were actually kind of good. I swear at one point my Fridays was 4 hours of Stargate and then Battlestar. And Mondays was Lost and Heroes. Save the cheerleader, save the world
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Oct 12, 2021 07:20
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Mu Zeta posted:There was a golden age of nerd shows where Lost, Heroes, Veronica Mars, Stargate, and Battlestar Galactica were all airing at once and they were actually kind of good. I swear at one point my Fridays was 4 hours of Stargate and then Battlestar. And Mondays was Lost and Heroes. Save the cheerleader, save the world Also the jack Bauer power hour.
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Oct 12, 2021 09:15
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Don't forget FRINGE as well. 24 wasn't a nerd show.
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Oct 12, 2021 09:35
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For All Mankind is probably my favourite show right now, it has its faults but it's so incredibly engaging.
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Oct 12, 2021 10:27
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LionArcher posted:Also the jack Bauer power hour. 24 was a "the Patriot act is the greatest thing ever" show
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Oct 12, 2021 15:32
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at some point in the near(ish) future there will have to be a show that gets into the top 10 or 20 all time and im just holding onto my but for that day because without one of those shows to fill that void, the endless just ok shows are becoming less palatable to me
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Oct 12, 2021 15:41
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Succession is HBO's big prestige show right now. Westworld is their big genre show that normal people think is ok and nerds loving hate with an all consuming passion.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:44
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Qmass posted:at some point in the near(ish) future there will have to be a show that gets into the top 10 or 20 all time and im just holding onto my but for that day because without one of those shows to fill that void, the endless just ok shows are becoming less palatable to me It already exists and its a comedy based around vampires.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:49
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better off ted is better than what we do in the shadows edit: now im wondering how many slots id fill with comedies in the top 10-20 shows ever... initially I thought no comedy rises to that level but then at least 30 rock and probably parks and rec are somewhere high for me on a "like" scale. But is most liked the same as best ? I would never claim to objectively rate tv though. edit2: problem is that I can't really love a show unless it is often REALLY funny... which kind of ends up eating any comedies breakfast in how I rank them. All the shows I think are the best shows have moments as funny as any comedy. Even like... true detective season 1 was funny. Certainly all the great HBO shows were hilarious. Mad Men might have some of the funniest moments ive ever seen in any show. Qmass fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 15:58
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Open Source Idiom posted:I think curation has become a huge issue, particularly thanks to the decline in good quality critical writing over the last few years. Either sites have been defunded and hollowed out (the av club particularly, but there are a few others) or because a lot of the "big" names in criticism (Emily Vanderwerff, Emily Nussbaum, Matt Zoller Seitz) have significantly decreased their output, for various reasons, with no real replacements apparent. Good post. I remember after watching an episode, that part of the process was going online to read critic's review and recap. Love or hate him, "What's Alan Watching" was constant read if he has following the show you was watching. Also with shows like BSG and Lost the first thing you did after an episode was hit up the forums to get thoughts and theories. You made me realized that I don't do that as much anymore. Instead I look at the initial reviews and that is all (of course they are not going to be able review everything). I think the last show I looked for an episode recap after every episode was Mad Med. I might have done it some with The Leftovers, but not as religious as I use to. It is funny on my Sopranos and Mad Men re-watches I did read the recaps as I watched from the books that were released. Qmass posted:at some point in the near(ish) future there will have to be a show that gets into the top 10 or 20 all time and im just holding onto my but for that day because without one of those shows to fill that void, the endless just ok shows are becoming less palatable to me I have been holding onto Better Call Saul for this exact reason. nate fisher fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 16:00
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Cojawfee posted:24 was a "the Patriot act is the greatest thing ever" show It's kind of wild to go back and realize that  's fictional portrayal of the world became the literal interpretation of reality for the  set.Open Source Idiom posted:I think curation has become a huge issue, particularly thanks to the decline in good quality critical writing over the last few years. Either sites have been defunded and hollowed out (the av club particularly, but there are a few others) or because a lot of the "big" names in criticism (Emily Vanderwerff, Emily Nussbaum, Matt Zoller Seitz) have significantly decreased their output, for various reasons, with no real replacements apparent. On some level, this criticism still exists, it's just become extremely niche and mostly moved to platforms like YouTube. There are lots of individuals who do deep dives into episodes and dissect the writing of different shows, but I think one of the problems is that these are mostly superfans of specific IPs. There aren't a lot of ~general~ tv critics, everyone seems to focus on specific shows. I guess we need a Lindsay Ellis for TV? nate fisher posted:Good post. I remember after watching an episode, that part of the process was going online to read critic's review and recap. Love or hate him, "What's Alan Watching" was constant read if he has following the show you was watching. Also with shows like BSG and Lost the first thing you did after an episode was hit up the forums to get thoughts and theories. You made me realized that I don't do that as much anymore. Instead I look at the initial reviews and that is all (of course they are not going to be able review everything). I think the last show I looked for an episode recap after every episode was Mad Med. I might have done it some with The Leftovers, but not as religious as I use to. I think it's also interesting how a lot of the discourse commentary was also created at this time. Ron Moore doing a podcast for every episode of  where he would rewatch it so people could sync it with the episode mainstreamed that, now ubiquitous, feature. These shows being well-acted, well-written, and relevant to the present made it easy to grow up an entire industry of commentary and reviews. Discussions about real-world policies and tactics could be had much more easily through fictional universes. It was a lot easier to have a meaningful conversation on the ethics of torture via humans/cylons than it was to discuss GitMo back then...But with so many platforms and everything so highly distributed, it's hard to have that same, widespread discourse. I think the present condition of the world also makes it hard to keep up the watercooler conversations, which are the fertile ground for the review/discussion industry, when real events take so much precedent. Binge watching and DVR also helped kill water cooler discourse. With everybody watching different things at different times, even people with similar interest have difficulty syncing up their watch lists. No one wants to spoil anything, everyone is watching at different paces; makes it almost impossible to actually talk about shows at work or with friends.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:19
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nate fisher posted:It is funny on my Sopranos and Mad Men re-watches I did read the recaps as I watched from the books that were released. I love that companion books for tv shows have kinda made a(n albeit small) comeback. A lot of what they used to cover has been replaced by wikis now, but it’s nice to have a small write-up for each episode that’s half analysis and half behind the scenes info. I’ve been watching Columbo while reading through the Columbophile book and it really takes me back to the days of poring through all the various Star Trek companions.
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Oct 12, 2021 17:10
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I thought Lindsay Ellis fell into disfavor once people decided her essays pretended to be deeper than they actually were?
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Oct 12, 2021 18:14
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I don't give a poo poo what nebulous people think or don't about her, her videos are still extremely good.
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Oct 12, 2021 18:43
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I think a big part of the reason I don't gel with this conversation topic or the idea that TV has declined is that I was never really into any of that stuff like reviews or week long thread discussions and analysis. I wasn't even very good at remembering to watch the same show every week at the same time until DVRs and Hulu showed up to bail me out. So it feels less to me like the quality of TV has decline so much as the "Golden Age Of TV" culture has died. And I can certainly understand why people who were really into that at the time would feel that missing now in pretty much the opposite way that I feel more access that I can just binge a great show on my own time and with minimal distraction now. But I dunno, the "Top 20 TV Shows of All Time" seems weird to me. Like do you only watch movies or read books if they're the top 20 of all time? Again, it feels like a kind of by product of the death of the "Golden Age of TV" where production, writing, and acting had jumped so much that a relative soft All Time List was constantly being rewritten. But that's gonna stabilize eventually and then come down to subjective judgments.
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Oct 12, 2021 18:51
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https://twitter.com/THR/status/1447752656257261570
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Oct 12, 2021 19:02
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Time for Summer School 2
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Oct 12, 2021 19:21
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STAC Goat posted:I think a big part of the reason I don't gel with this conversation topic or the idea that TV has declined is that I was never really into any of that stuff like reviews or week long thread discussions and analysis. I wasn't even very good at remembering to watch the same show every week at the same time until DVRs and Hulu showed up to bail me out. So it feels less to me like the quality of TV has decline so much as the "Golden Age Of TV" culture has died. And I can certainly understand why people who were really into that at the time would feel that missing now in pretty much the opposite way that I feel more access that I can just binge a great show on my own time and with minimal distraction now. I mean, yeah, appointment TV has died. That's taken water cooler conversation with it. When it's purely a streaming show that is on demand, that's taken the live discussion aspect out of things as well. Then you layer on the proliferation of shows and it gets even more disjointed. I share a lot of the same media preferences with a lot of my friends, but I can only talk one show with one friend, another show with a different friend, they can talk a show between themselves that I'm not currently watching (it may be on my list, but I haven't gotten to it yet.) It's completely random too. One of my friends is a hardcore spaceship scifi nerd like I am. All things Star Trek, BGS, Farscape, Babylon 5, Orville, etc. He still hasn't gotten around to The Expanse. He knows he'll like it, but just hasn't gotten to it yet. It feels like I'm doing more TV watching than ever but discussing it less than ever with other people because they aren't watching the same thing I am.
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Oct 12, 2021 19:30
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https://twitter.com/rachelkiley/status/1447617343618576384
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Oct 12, 2021 19:41
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I don't think I've ever seen a more perfect distillation of Peacock vs Hulu.
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Oct 12, 2021 19:45
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It’s like a loving 30 Rock throwaway gag I can literally hear Alec Baldwin excitedly mentioning it and then Tina Fey makes a face and decides not to tell him
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Oct 12, 2021 20:02
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Qmass posted:better off ted is better than what we do in the shadows The Good Place gets ranked really high on people's list of best shows. I've still not checked it out in favor of rewatching the entire series of Psych.
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Oct 12, 2021 20:28
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muscles like this! posted:I thought the first two episodes of Foundation were good but wasn't super into the third episode. Not sure of the decision to just kind of skip the fallout of the end of episode 2. I hated that they did this. And the stuff they did follow it up with was definitely *less* interesting than what they made everybody want to see. Terrible pacing imo. I like the show enough to keep going. I just got a 4K tv for the first time so all the effects look super insanely amazing. A lot of the stuff in the first episode was stuff they'd put on screensavers in a TV store to make you go ooh, ahh, TV so pretty, wow. I wonder if the stuff on the desert exile planet is done by an entirely different team than the stuff on the Empire Capital planet, feels like two different shows almost. Only bigger dissonance I can remember on a show was Sense8. Binged Squid Game and liked it. Binged Alice in Borderland as it was recommended as similar to Squid Game and liked it as well. They are different enough that there's not a lot of overlap, but also similar enough that I figure anyone who liked one will like the other. I'm gonna give Sharp Objects a try as I loved Gone Girl. I'll see if it can convince me to like Amy Adams.
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Oct 12, 2021 21:11
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Metropolis posted:... I'll see if it can convince me to like Amy Adams. You're a braver person than I
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Oct 12, 2021 21:22
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The one big "TV event" I remember as being actual water-cooler talk that I personally experienced was the Jim & Pam wedding on The Office. A lot of people were talking about that at work the next morning. Related to NBC comedies, I just started rewatching 30 Rock and I forgot how good it is, and I say this as someone who was a big fan of it when it was on. Without a doubt, better than The Office or Parks & Rec. It finds its footing within just a few episodes, too. It's a rare show where it starts off good and grounded, and then only gets better as the characters and premise become increasingly cartoony and detached from reality.
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Oct 12, 2021 21:27
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STAC Goat posted:I still think the "lack of prestige shows" is just a product of the streaming era as well as its own success. There's lots of shows like White Lotus or Nine Perfect Strangers or Killing Eve or Man in the High Castle or whatever that 15 years ago would have been Sunday Night appointment and water color television. But first the age of the HBO Sunday Night prestige show spurred a bunch of other networks into getting into the game so then all those shows were spread around and there were more to choose from diluting the audience or appointment television aspect. And now most of those shows are on a streaming service you can watch at any time or binge so people are no longer buzzing about episodes, they're buzzing about whole shows you should add your watchlist. I just don't think you can stick that genie back in the bottle. But the Wire, Sopranos and less closely linked, Mad Men, are the best shows that's ever been on TV. And Mad Men ended a decade ago
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Oct 12, 2021 21:30
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Shageletic posted:But the Wire, Sopranos and less closely linked, Mad Men, are the best shows that's ever been on TV. And Mad Men ended a decade ago If you're a boomer sure, but what if I've watched all of them and would only put the Wire in that list for myself? Taste is subjective and all that. I'd honestly take the Good Wife over the Soprano's. I mean poo poo, I would argue there's limited tv show runs (The haunting of Hill house, Watchman, Queen's Gambit) that should be on the top 20 list because they are very, very good at what they are, and do it more efficiently than a lot of the older shows that have more "prestige". I haven't even gotten to Halt and Catch Fire, and am still behind on seasons of the American's, two other shows everyone say land well. TV as a medium evolves. There is just in general more good stuff today than 20+ years ago. Except kids shows, because nothing now is as good as Gargoyles or Batman the animated series. Also, "best shows" lists always focus on Drama. If we're talking comedy, in the last fifteen years we've got Community, Don't trust the b in apartment, Happy Endings, not to mention parks and rec and the office as strong contenders for best comedies ever, or at the very least on the short list.
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Oct 12, 2021 22:02
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mad men only ended 6 years ago.
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Oct 12, 2021 22:04
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Batman TAS is great stuff but I think Avatar and Korra surpassed it especially if you're an actual kid.
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Oct 12, 2021 22:10
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Mu Zeta posted:Batman TAS is great stuff but I think Avatar and Korra surpassed it especially if you're an actual kid. I forgot about those. Okay those are right up there too. Korra's got enough issues (and I like it) that it doesn't beat Batman, but Avatar probably ties it for sure.
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Oct 12, 2021 22:14
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Shageletic posted:But the Wire, Sopranos and less closely linked, Mad Men, are the best shows that's ever been on TV. And Mad Men ended a decade ago There have been several shows in the last 10 years that are serious contenders for a list of best shows ever made. Patriot is absolutely incredible. Halt and Catch Fire was great and wildly underrated at the time as people thought it was 80s tech Mad Men (which was a problem for the first few episodes before it found its footing) There's quite a few outstanding shows that never found a huge audience since the early 2010s kind of "ended" the classic prestige era of TV as the streaming era really took off and created this space for tons of creative and great shows that don't get the kind of ratings buzz or attention they would've gotten had they aired in the 2000s. pentyne fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Oct 12, 2021 |
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Oct 12, 2021 22:22
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LionArcher posted:If you're a boomer sure, but what if I've watched all of them and would only put the Wire in that list for myself? Taste is subjective and all that. I'd honestly take the Good Wife over the Soprano's. I mean poo poo, I would argue there's limited tv show runs (The haunting of Hill house, Watchman, Queen's Gambit) that should be on the top 20 list because they are very, very good at what they are, and do it more efficiently than a lot of the older shows that have more "prestige". I haven't even gotten to Halt and Catch Fire, and am still behind on seasons of the American's, two other shows everyone say land well. Yeah, I think that when all those "best shows" were airing it was easy to get a consensus that they were "the best" because the competition from the past wasn't at the same quality level generally. More money was being spent, better talent was getting involved, bigger chances were being taken and deeper topics were being explored. It just was the Dream Team competing against the world. But now there's so much quality stuff that you're just not gonna get consensus. And while a lot of those shows might hold up not everyone is gonna dig them the way they did when they aired. There's stuff that did the same kind of thing and some people are gonna think better. And there's gonna be new stuff that they weren't doing then that people are gonna like. So yeah, I think that's what's dead. Yes the "water cooler". And the must watch, appointment television, tons of reviews and discussion stuff. But I think the result of all of that was a consensus opinion and that's gone for good because the field's just too big now for anyone to ever agree if something is must watch or the greatest or an overrated piece of poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2021 22:32
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LionArcher posted:I forgot about those. Okay those are right up there too. Korra's got enough issues (and I like it) that it doesn't beat Batman, but Avatar probably ties it for sure. Gravity Falls and Ducktales 2017 are pretty fuckin good too
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Oct 12, 2021 22:33
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Now everybody take this energy to the Top 10 of the Decade Thread!
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Oct 12, 2021 22:43
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Hawkperson posted:Gravity Falls and Ducktales 2017 are pretty fuckin good too Gravity Falls I'm biased against because I know stuff about the show from behind the scenes. (Love the first season though). Ducktales I have not watched.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:07
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pentyne posted:. I'd agree on this, but then again it ends somewhat ambigiously in its second season and didn't get the chance to finish as strongly or thoroughly as Made Men or the Sopranos. I do need to check out Halt. LionArcher posted:If you're a boomer sure, but what if I've watched all of them and would only put the Wire in that list for myself? Taste is subjective and all that. I'd honestly take the Good Wife over the Soprano's. I mean poo poo, I would argue there's limited tv show runs (The haunting of Hill house, Watchman, Queen's Gambit) that should be on the top 20 list because they are very, very good at what they are, and do it more efficiently than a lot of the older shows that have more "prestige". I haven't even gotten to Halt and Catch Fire, and am still behind on seasons of the American's, two other shows everyone say land well. Queen's Gambit is one of the best shows ever? Watchmen, that ended with a shrug at best? It's hard to think of drama shows that ended as well or made consistently as excellent as a handful of TV shows collectively running through 2001-2009. And I think that's kinda odd. We're all mega TV watchers here. Seriously if you have a show that can dethrone them put them forward, but youre a)gonna find most ppl have seen them here, and b) they don't necessarily agree. The argument its about not getting publicity is kinda spacious in a thread which exists to share shows they love and want to evangelize for.
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Oct 12, 2021 23:37
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Shageletic posted:I'd agree on this, but then again it ends somewhat ambigiously in its second season and didn't get the chance to finish as strongly or thoroughly as Made Men or the Sopranos. Again, opinions. I think Queen's Gambit was a very good character study of a fantasy style character, and did several things with relationships/friendships very, very well. The music was fantastic as well. The Sopranos is great if you're a boomer who likes character study's of gangster poo poo, and has very weak female characters. But again, that's my opinion. And Watchman sure as hell stuck the landing.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:32
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LionArcher posted:Gravity Falls I'm biased against because I know stuff about the show from behind the scenes. (Love the first season though). Well now I really want to know too, is it something you can share?
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Oct 13, 2021 00:36
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LionArcher posted:Again, opinions. I think Queen's Gambit was a very good character study of a fantasy style character, and did several things with relationships/friendships very, very well. The music was fantastic as well. The Sopranos is great if you're a boomer who likes character study's of gangster poo poo, and has very weak female characters. But again, that's my opinion. And Watchman sure as hell stuck the landing. Gonna have to disagree about it. What made you think Watchmen stuck the landing? And I'd like to have to not say this, but I'm not a boomer.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:39
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Check out Halt & Catch Fire. Some people didn't like the first season (I did), but I do agree it gets better with every season. It is top tier to me. Does The Crown reach that level of being one of the all-time greats? It might be for me after thinking about it. Also we all agree one offs are great like Haunting of Hill House and Chernobyl. Still comparing them to a show with 6 seasons is little like cheating. Lets see you repeat that another 40 episodes or so. I think limited series deserve their own category if voted on. If we did an all-time list for that my guess be Band of Brothers would win. I know it is all subjective. I think The Sopranos is for sure in my current top 3 (with The Wire and Mad Men), but someone else likes Good Wife over The Sopranos which is hell of a hot take to me. It is my fear into my 40's I have become the unhip person who thinks everything was better back in the day. That said my 21 year old son did say to me after the Whitecaps episode of The Sopranos that he sees why this is considered one of the greatest shows of all-time. All he could talk about was the acting (especially Edie Falco) and how real it felt. So who knows. nate fisher fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 00:45
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