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2021 the year of broken game launches
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Oct 12, 2021 23:57
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jisforjosh posted:Considering how much Jack and Westie have tried to brightside and give DICE and EA the benefit of the doubt in the past, them being only cautiously optimistic says a lot yep and the problem is that it seems like it's pretty much everything that needs benefit of the doubt the audio was self evidently hosed, is the "fixed" version actually good (and does it really exist at this point in time)? who knows animations hosed/buggy/missing - similar thing obvious graphical performance issues - obviously there is a lot of optimization that can be done (and it's perfectly normal to have relatively unoptimized betas if they're actually a beta), but how much and what that final product looks like? again who knows netcode (which presumably ties into a whole host of issues like "are tank turrets useable")? similarly the UI just may be straight up bad, since there wasn't any real indication this wasn't the intended design and then you get into gameplay/game design stuff, which also is up in the air - i.e. it's easy to assume they'll "fix" specialists since there are a bunch of ways it could not be bad and it's reasonable to assume they won't keep things as they are but like... what if they BF V it and just don't? or BF V it even more and make wholesale changes that actively make things worse? similar concerns in turn extend to the full weapon slate, map design, etc. now it's not like the beta experience itself was the worst thing ever and they might well actually nail all (or enough) of the above, but that's still a very big "to do" and "cannot be assessed at this time" list, not a whole lot shown that was particularly/uniquely compelling (with items like "massive maps" and "128 players" being double edged swords), and no real track record to inspire trust
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Oct 13, 2021 00:00
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BULBASAUR posted:2021 the year of broken game launches Apply each year for dice though
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Oct 13, 2021 00:04
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No idea if that rumor about it being designed as a battle royale is true, but it'd explain the layout of the map (which seemed kind of strange for a typical BF flag-capturing thing and reminded me more of the War Zone map or something).The United States posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnQPqPqq_v0 My friend described it as looking like an invisible child playing with a toy plane.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:08
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BULBASAUR posted:If the game's supposed to be out next month its already being printed in China, there's no way they're gonna change that many things Given the size of console patches for games like 2042 these days disc printing is at least part formality.
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Oct 13, 2021 00:30
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LGD posted:and then you get into gameplay/game design stuff, which also is up in the air - i.e. it's easy to assume they'll "fix" specialists since there are a bunch of ways it could not be bad and it's reasonable to assume they won't keep things as they are but like... what if they BF V it and just don't? or BF V it even more and make wholesale changes that actively make things worse? similar concerns in turn extend to the full weapon slate, map design, etc. -Healing/Reviving -Giving Ammo -Repairing -Anti-vehicle/Explosives? -Spotting Scopes/Recon Drones?? -??? So if Anti-vehicle/Explosives is now something anyone can do (and to a certain degree it has been before, by giving everyone access to some kind of explosive, but usually the anti-tank/engineer had the best ones), can it be reduced down to a Health/Ammo/Repair/Recon quadrilogy? And can they ensure that everyone who looks a certain way will always provide that function to a squad? Like perhaps McGruber always has an ammo box? Boris always has a repair torch? I know someone suggested something like that before. https://twitter.com/BF2042Hub/status/1447797949359169539  Ytlaya posted:My friend described it as looking like an invisible child playing with a toy plane. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 00:58
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The claim that DICE started BF2042 out as BR seems far fetched and also fundamentally different from DICE planning to have a BR mode in BF2042
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Oct 13, 2021 01:01
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Kibayasu posted:Given the size of console patches for games like 2042 these days disc printing is at least part formality. You're not wrong, but the point stand that they're 1 month for launch so the D1 patch regardless of size just doesn't have enough time to address all this. They delayed once because of bugs and its pretty clear there are fundamental design and engine issues here so you're looking ~6 months for things to get stable if the EA suits allow them to do it
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Oct 13, 2021 01:05
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LGD posted:yep Audio, Animations, Net Code, Sounds, etc. are all easy to change. It looks like DICE just didn't finish or correctly import all the asset from the previous Battlefield builds to save space or just because it didn't matter from the technical playtest. On the other hand, fixing things like overall game mechanics are a much, much bigger ask. It's easy to import working assets from a game that exists into a new one vs. creating stuff from scratch or fixing what is already broken. Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 01:07
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Oct 13, 2021 01:11
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The United States posted:I mean Squad came from Project Reality, a BF2 mod which is still played to this day. But EA won't license out any of the Battlefield engines, Frostbite or Refractor, so they had to use Unreal. But yes, even for all the bugginess, there's just something about DICE's engines that cannot be recreated in other engines. At this point, DICE should just develop game engine and license them to studios whom are able to make good games.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:15
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:At this point, DICE should just develop game engine and license them to studios whom are able to make good games. Like I said earlier, move development to ripple effect
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Oct 13, 2021 01:21
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:At this point, DICE should just develop game engine and license them to studios whom are able to make good games. I would like to introduce you to Anthem. Frostbite is apparently/notoriously hard to work with.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:22
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Ashrik posted:The claim that DICE started BF2042 out as BR seems far fetched and also fundamentally different from DICE planning to have a BR mode in BF2042 Command & Conquer 4 started as a free-to-play MOBA before gears ground and it shipped as a closer to a normal RTS albeit with bizarre vestiges of its original design to drag it down. It's not very far-fetched.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:27
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The gun you use should be secondary to the class/role you play. If you're the type of player to go picking your class based on the gun you're probably not paying attention to your kit/role. This is backed up by all those people that complain that pubbies don't drop ammo or health or revive people. Also snipers that don't use flares or spawn beacons. This system allows you to pick your gun AND your role.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:31
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The United States posted:
This brought back some memories. That game ate so many hours of my life.
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Oct 13, 2021 01:32
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Thirsty Dog posted:True, but the healing from the healing gun also seems to be pretty useless in an active firefight, especially compared to the opportunity cost of shooting an actual gun instead. 5 seconds to start regenning ~20 seconds to fully regen once the regen has started ~25 seconds overall The passive regen is really loving slow. Peeking or taking a duel with half or low health is a tremendous disadvantage. Health regen abilities let you peek or win a duel and then reset the health situation behind cover so you can peek again or win another duel without a tremendous disadvantage. The time to kill is high enough in this game that you can react to taking damage in a disadvantageous situation and then reset the health situation behind cover. Being able to heal yourself or teammates to full quickly without waiting for passive regen has tremendous utility even if you only take it as a purely selfish ability. There is a tremendous opportunity cost to you or a teammate playing passively for passive health regen for ~15-25s to get you to a safe health for peeking. When comms are in, people who use comms and play with the squad will ask for heals!
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Oct 13, 2021 02:09
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Ytlaya posted:No idea if that rumor about it being designed as a battle royale is true, but it'd explain the layout of the map (which seemed kind of strange for a typical BF flag-capturing thing and reminded me more of the War Zone map or something). There are a couple of buildings on the Orbital map that are completely out of the way, in bounds, have full quality textures/assets, and don't get interacted with during the game. Them being there probably points more towards the map being usable in Hazard Zone but it's not too far fetched to see the map as a BR map
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Oct 13, 2021 02:16
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Ashrik posted:The claim that DICE started BF2042 out as BR seems far fetched and also fundamentally different from DICE planning to have a BR mode in BF2042 Yeah no way it is true that would imply that Dice/EA didn't have a battlefield game in the pipeline which is ridiculous. It's more likely they had a separate battle royale game or mode they folded into 2042 at some point but the idea that this was just a BR game they stuck some BF assets in is dumb.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:33
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I'm really hoping DICE doesn't overcorrect and shoehorn in too many restrictions on players. I know people say lack of classes is why teamplay was dead but I really chock that up to a bad UI. You could not see who had and who needed ammo and could not use the comm menu to request. There was also a lack of feedback when doing team friendly stuff so even just having points pop up on the UI again when doing those tasks might be enough to get more people running support gadgets. Even still, I just played a round in BF4 where my squad was 2 snipers, an engineer and me. Extrapolate that out to the team and you have similar teamwork problems. Meanwhile in the beta if you had 4 guys ready to work together you could get some cool diversity going and that was with only 4 specialists. I'd be really curious to see the full roster with a BF4 UI in place to see how the balance was. I guess we'll see where it goes but I worry we get another BF5 where there's a backlash and they second guess the vision and we get some half baked compromise that makes nobody happy.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:40
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That's another good point. With 10 specialists and the freedom to choose your two extras without class restrictions I think there might be some really cool squad meta possibilities. For those of us who play with goons/friends on comms it has a good chance to be better than the old class system. I agree that with pubbies it's an issue though.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:49
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D-Pad posted:That's another good point. With 10 specialists and the freedom to choose your two extras without class restrictions I think there might be some really cool squad meta possibilities. For those of us who play with goons/friends on comms it has a good chance to be better than the old class system. I agree that with pubbies it's an issue though. Yeah this has been my stance all along. Just goes to show, DON'T PLAY ALONE.
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Oct 13, 2021 02:59
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I don't really do the whole scheduled game time/partying up thing anymore so if a game's gonna be good it's gotta be good with pubbies for the match or two I might be able to swing at some weird time of day
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Oct 13, 2021 03:04
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Fallom posted:I don't really do the whole scheduled game time/partying up thing anymore so if a game's gonna be good it's gotta be good with pubbies for the match or two I might be able to swing at some weird time of day Same, squeezing in game time when I have free time at odd hours leads to a lot more playing with randoms over the last few years compared to my younger years of playing the same 3-4 hours every night more often than not
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Oct 13, 2021 03:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsqfn6V_kOc
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Oct 13, 2021 04:11
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Fallom posted:I don't really do the whole scheduled game time/partying up thing anymore so if a game's gonna be good it's gotta be good with pubbies for the match or two I might be able to swing at some weird time of day
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Oct 13, 2021 04:20
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Audio, Animations, Net Code, Sounds, etc. are all easy to change. It looks like DICE just didn't finish or correctly import all the asset from the previous Battlefield builds to save space or just because it didn't matter from the technical playtest. Thanks for the laugh 
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Oct 13, 2021 04:20
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People mainlining copium always use the exact same excuse: "it's fine because if you play with a squad full of friends you'll be able to do fine.". Me and my friends can have fun playing the biggest most broken piece of poo poo game if we are all playing together and goofing around, that doesn't mean the game is well designed. There was a ton of team play with pubbies in the past titles. In fact for all of bfv's faults they absolutely nailed the mechanics to encourage team play. This was completely absent in the beta of 2042 and if it's still absent at launch unless you play with a full squad of friends in discord that is an abject failure of the game.
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Oct 13, 2021 04:34
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Skyarb posted:There was a ton of team play with pubbies in the past titles. I'm just gonna assume based on this all your BF experience is actually as short as your BF V experience turned out to be. Like yeah you can occasionally find pubbies who will work with you but whining about pubbies not doing team stuff is a hallmark of BF threads of the last 20 years for a reason.
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Oct 13, 2021 04:39
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it's almost certain that the demo playerbase is way more skilled and team-focused than the actual playerbase is going to be on release. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 2002, but the average gamer is as drunk and stupid as ever.
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Oct 13, 2021 04:45
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They tried to force squad play in BFV and it failed so bad that they changed everything to be more like older BF games what are you taking about Like the attrition system would have been good if BF weren't a casual shooter with a casual audience, but it's not that, so it made trying to hold points obnoxious unless there was a dedicated support to feed ammo or an ammo station nearby. The only counter to that would be killing guys and taking their kits, but losing the point was a bigger detriment unless you consistently had squadmates spawning on you. The system encouraged camping, made all the worse by back prone. BFV tried a lot and failed. It's fine.
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Oct 13, 2021 04:49
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D-Pad posted:I'm just gonna assume based on this all your BF experience is actually as short as your BF V experience turned out to be. Using thread complaints as a metric for pubbies always never ever helped is very silly. Human brains are designed to focus on the negatives but I can tell you right now I was revived and chucked ammo more times in ten minutes of BFV than the entirety of the 2042 beta. You can argue that it's because people were more interested in testing the beta than working together but pretending that actually pubbies never did things is very very dumb.
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Oct 13, 2021 04:52
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to be fair BFV's player base is also far more hardcore than the average player at this point. Like anyone who wasn't super into battlefield found something else to play literally 3 years ago when the game was literally actually broken to the extent things like tank shells didn't explode on targets and map indicators didn't work and the devs hadn't released a map in a year. that wasn't how pubbies actually played it during its salad days
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Oct 13, 2021 04:56
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Paul MaudDib posted:to be fair BFV's player base is also far more hardcore than the average player at this point. Like anyone who wasn't super into battlefield found something else to play literally 3 years ago when the game was literally actually broken to the extent things like tank shells didn't explode on targets and map indicators didn't work and the devs hadn't released a map in a year. Then use BF1 at launch if you prefer. I would make the exact same statement
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Oct 13, 2021 04:58
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This guy is frustrating to listen to with the way he constantly contradicts himself. 1. No way to tell friend from foe with all operators looking the same - IFF lights and UI fixes will solve that. 2. No way to identify players with Ammo/health boxes - UI icons will fix this. 3. Specialists do not incentivize team play. No reason to run ammo/health - This one is confusing when he just got done saying how much he needs to be able to see who's running ammo and health. Other notes: Operators are both too good, but also useless. He calls Falk's heal useless then in the next breath goes on to say how overpowered it is to be able to shoot the ground and heal yourself. He also said Casper's drone was both super useful but also too weak and Boris's turret is useless because it doesn't hold down an angle by itself. Boris' drone is good because it spots marks enemies, not because of the damage. Then his answer to all this is just copy paste the class system but open up all the weapons to classes. None of his gripes besides the specific specialist gimmicks would be solved by just going back to classes. It will be fixed by UI improvements.
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Oct 13, 2021 05:01
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DrBox posted:It will be fixed by UI improvements. It will not. The UI in BFV is a testament to just use the UI and the number one complaint is that it's impossible to identify classes and enemies and that is with skins that are faction specific instead of shared. UI will make it a bit better but there is no way to tell what class someone is at a glance and that's bad. IFFs will help but having the camos and models different is always a better solution Sedisp fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 05:05
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Sedisp posted:It will not. The UI in BFV is a testament to just use the UI and the number one complaint is that it's impossible to identify classes and enemies and that is with skins that are faction specific instead of shared. UI will make it a bit better but there is no way to tell what class someone is at a glance and that's bad. It can easily fix these issues. They already said the comm rose will be there launch so when you call out for ammo it'll show who has it. Also for teammates they can add gadget icons on the hud when you look at them. For identifying enemies, there is going to be IFF lights (they are in the trailer too) and they can tweak the hud stuff to make the circles above heads stand out more. It's possible they don't do things right and it is still garbage at launch but the answer to these problems doesn't have to be generic soldiers and class system.
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Oct 13, 2021 05:11
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DrBox posted:1. No way to tell friend from foe with all operators looking the same - IFF lights and UI fixes will solve that. isn't "IFF light" just a cute euphemism for dorito? I thought battlefield players hated that.
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Oct 13, 2021 05:15
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Skyarb posted:People mainlining copium oof
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Oct 13, 2021 05:16
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DrBox posted:It can easily fix these issues. They already said the comm rose will be there launch so when you call out for ammo it'll show who has it. Also for teammates they can add gadget icons on the hud when you look at them. For identifying enemies, there is going to be IFF lights (they are in the trailer too) and they can tweak the hud stuff to make the circles above heads stand out more. Again. We have an example of this. BFV. Again the most common complaint in it is the same one worsened by the operator system. People are able to identify silhouettes quicker than whatever UI system you try to make. How the IFFs will work is up in the air but I'm skeptical it'll be as easy as identifying enemies at distance as camo and models are
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Oct 13, 2021 05:19
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