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You'd think with how critical spice is the Emperor would want that planet to be part of his personal demesne.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:29
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I read the books a while ago so I might be off base here, but I remember the Voice being more of a subtle intimidation / psychological manipulation thing, but in the movies it's portrayed as literal mind control. Am I just misremembering or did the movie change the way the Voice works?
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Oct 23, 2021 23:32
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Seph posted:I read the books a while ago so I might be off base here, but I remember the Voice being more of a subtle intimidation / psychological manipulation thing, but in the movies it's portrayed as literal mind control. Am I just misremembering or did the movie change the way the Voice works? The scene in the ornithopter is I think pretty much exactly as it plays out in the book. I interpret it as a psychological trick that slips your command in between the victim's conscious mind and their unconscious muscle nerve control - more body control than mind control (which is the Bene Gesserit thing they've spent thousands of years on - perfect understanding and control of body muscle and nerves).
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Oct 23, 2021 23:39
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Failed Imagineer posted:Honestly it looks really cool, but if it wasn't directed by David Lynch it would have no fanboy cachet and would be remembered the same way as like Flash Gordon or Barbarella Wtf all 3 of these movies are dope as hell
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Oct 23, 2021 23:39
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I'm surprised at the number of reviews that seem to have forgotten Dune 2000 was a thing.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:45
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Nitrousoxide posted:You'd think with how critical spice is the Emperor would want that planet to be part of his personal demesne. Neither the other houses nor the Spacing Guild would ever stand for that
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Oct 23, 2021 23:50
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Nitrousoxide posted:You'd think with how critical spice is the Emperor would want that planet to be part of his personal demesne. I hope someone will clarify better than I can, but I think that's precisely why it's not under his direct control. They rotate who harvests the spice so that no one house can become too powerful. Or it might just be too late for that now and if the Emperor tried all the other houses would jump his rear end.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:51
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I saw it on HBO and IMAX and I got to say the big screen does a lot for the movie. Especially little details and Whispers between Paul and Jessica I realize I missed on the small screen viewing.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:52
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Azubah posted:Is Paul's choice with Jamis why sometimes Zendaya kills him and sometimes she doesn't in his visions? It felt like an either or thing to me as it was presented in the movie and I read the book 20 some odd years ago so I don't remember poo poo about it. Paul's visions aren't directly the future, they're sometimes allegorical or he's not interpreting them correctly. When Zendaya stabs him, it's possibly just him getting a vision that she'd give him a wormtooth knife. When he sees Jamis kill him, it's more like Jamis is killing the boy and leaving the man; this is how Paul interprets the fight after the fact. He sees a future where Jamis is a friend of his, which is definitely metaphorical because of what happens right after the fight in the book, which I'll relate in a separate spoiler below in case you haven't read the book. The Fremen don't have a traditional mourning period, instead they all take turns talking about how the deceased was a friend and then they take a possession of the deceased. In the book Paul says Jamis was a friend because he taught him that when you take a life, you're responsible for the results. So Paul's vision of Jamis being friendly in the future could be a prediction of this funerary tradition he's unaware of before the fact. There was no possible future where Jamis literally survived challenging Paul to a duel to the death, so the vision had to be metaphorical.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:57
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shrike82 posted:It’s funny how while the Salusa Secundus scene is visually arresting, it does so little to provide actual context - the harshness of the prison planet setup driving their elite nature and the comparison with the Fremen Context that is useless to the film. Everything you need to know about Sardaukar for the film plot is covered. If you know the book lore you get hints of the context you hint at, but it’s not necessary.
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Oct 23, 2021 23:57
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I've only read the first book, so maybe this is in the sequels but If Spice is what makes space travel possible, how did anyone get around before it was discovered on Arrakis?
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Oct 23, 2021 23:58
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cohsae posted:I've only read the first book, so maybe this is in the sequels but They used computers to calculate the FTL jumps before spice. Computers are banned by the time of the Dune book.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:03
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There was also a period after computers but before spice where space travel was just... extremely loving dangerous.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:07
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cohsae posted:I've only read the first book, so maybe this is in the sequels but They were able to navigate using computers for a while. But after some time humanity had a giant war called the Butlerian Jihad where they decided that actually computers are bad and destroyed every machine capable of thinking or computing. This is why there are Mentats and Navigators and other professions that were historically done by computers. Even owning something as simple as a calculator is punishable by death in the Dune universe.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:09
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I have no prior experience with the dune franchise other than playing Dune 2 forever ago and thought this movie was awesome. I broke in my new OLED watching this and I'm glad I did. I can't wait for the next one, assuming it is being made.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:12
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Shifter posted:Context that is useless to the film. Everything you need to know about Sardaukar for the film plot is covered. If you know the book lore you get hints of the context you hint at, but it’s not necessary. Also this is all stuff that is rapidly exposition dumped in the very last few pages of the book. Paul drops this knowledge as well as 'the guild uses spice for space travel' revelation as the explanation for how he's going to control the universe at the end of the story - by having the Guild under his thumb and by making sure nobody has a planet with the conditions that they can use to build a super-army. But in a film you can't do this. You've got to explain why spice is the most important thing ever right at the start, all we need to know about the Sardaukar is that the Emperor has a planet of hardcore vikings ready to fight for him.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:16
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Seph posted:Even owning something as simple as a calculator is punishable by death in the Dune universe. The premise in that spoiler is pretty hilarious considering the technological level of things, considering all the kinds of control systems necessary for the devices and machinery, and the kind of tools needed for development and manufacturing of those. Book from 60ies I guess. What bothered me the most however is what the hell does everyone even eat on Arrakis? There's no circular ecosystem, everything is bound to go to poo poo (re: eating sandworms, which begs the question what do they eat).
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Oct 24, 2021 00:17
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It looks like the movie’s getting the same initial audience reaction as BR2049 where people get hit with the visual design and then after a while forget about the movie because of the lack of substance It’s easier to be more critical about the movie when you notice the wow factor from the aesthetics (sweeping backdrops etc) isn’t specific to his vision of Dune but something Villeneuve throws into all his movies as a default placeholder
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Oct 24, 2021 00:32
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Automatic Slim posted:Thanks for this. yes, the moment you see paul just glare at mohaim like an angry god was just a perfect illustration that everyone involved knew what they were doing.
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Oct 24, 2021 00:36
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Combat Pretzel posted:What bothered me the most however is what the hell does everyone even eat on Arrakis? There's no circular ecosystem, everything is bound to go to poo poo (re: eating sandworms, which begs the question what do they eat). You don't know what the Fremen eat because their true numbers were a closely-guarded secret. If you want to know how the ecosystem works on Arrakis read the spoilers. The sandworm is the adult form of the sandtrout, an animal-ish colony organism that lives underground and is the basis for the native Arrakeen ecosystem. Sandworms and sandtrout are part of a chemosynthetic food web that is native to Arrakis and has no relationship with Earth life. The sandtrout form vast colonial mats at the interface between the water table and the overlying surface matrix. We don't know the details of their biochemistry, but we do know that the adult sandworm excretes oxygen gas and has an internal temperature significantly higher than human body temperature. We also know sandworms can't swim and are capable of drowning. The spice is produced by sandtrout colonial mats and transported to the surface by large bubbles of carbon dioxide escaping the sandtrout mat in a phenomenon known as a spice blow. The imperial ecologists were first alerted to the presence of the sandtrout by the occasional corpse transported to the surface in a big spice blow. Further investigation revealed that most of Arrakis has sandtrout living at the interface between the water table and the overlying matrix. As Liet states, once the spice was discovered nobody was interested in loving with the native ecosystem. (There have been many attempts at transplanting Arrakis life off of the planet, but as of the events of Dune none have succeeded.) Humans can't eat native life, but the early settlers made an attempt at seeding Arrakis with Earth life. As Paul's film-book explains, only the hardiest transplants survived. (Including a descendent of the kangaroo-mouse.) The people of Arrakeen presumably eat food imported from offworld and supplement that to some extent with hardy grasses grown with water reclaimed from the atmosphere. The Fremen pay dearly to bribe the Spacing Guild to keep the skies clear of satellites, so no one knows that the deep desert hosts hidden irrigation projects and plantations. Plantations start with dune stabilization but some probably produce the food that the millions of Fremen live on. So that's how the ecosystem works on Arrakis. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 00:57
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This isn't really in the movie at all but how are smugglers supposed to work in the Dune-iverse? Is the idea that they sneak onto Guild ships or sneak contraband cargo onto above board shipments?
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Oct 24, 2021 01:01
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Combat Pretzel posted:The premise in that spoiler is pretty hilarious considering the technological level of things, considering all the kinds of control systems necessary for the devices and machinery, and the kind of tools needed for development and manufacturing of those. Book from 60ies I guess. the role of those control systems has been completely replaced by Mentats and Navigators supplemented by vast quantities of the Spice, this is why the Spice is so crucial, because what would have been a hyper advanced super computer has been replaced by humans that are capable of performing all of those operations in their head and they can only do that as long as the spice flows
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Oct 24, 2021 01:04
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porfiria posted:This isn't really in the movie at all but how are smugglers supposed to work in the Dune-iverse? Is the idea that they sneak onto Guild ships or sneak contraband cargo onto above board shipments? Pretty sure they just pay the Spacing Guild to transport them and keep quiet. The Guild is very powerful and not really afraid of pissing off the Emperor Edit: in fact I believe there's something in the first book about passengers on Guild heighliners not being allowed to walk around and see anything outside their own ships. So presumably the Guild doesn't even have to do much to conceal smuggled ships or cargo Cognac McCarthy fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:04
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porfiria posted:This isn't really in the movie at all but how are smugglers supposed to work in the Dune-iverse? Is the idea that they sneak onto Guild ships or sneak contraband cargo onto above board shipments? The Spacing Guild makes sure that there are no satellites above Arrakis, so smuggling things on and off world is as simple as going far enough over the horizon. The Guild is complicit in the smuggling. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:05
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porfiria posted:This isn't really in the movie at all but how are smugglers supposed to work in the Dune-iverse? Is the idea that they sneak onto Guild ships or sneak contraband cargo onto above board shipments? Smugglers are either completely independent operations who run off the book harvesters, or just the middle-men for selling Spice that is harvested by the Fremen themselves. They get the Spice offworld by....just booking transport on Spacing Guild ships just like everyone else. It cannot be understated how completely neutral the Guild is to the day to day politics of the Imperium. They literally don't care if criminals are hitching a ride in their ships as long as they pay the fees. The only rule is that no one is allowed to leave the individual ships inside their interstellar carriers, and no one is allowed to fight on the Guild ships, or they get a life-time ban from ever using the Guild services again. EDIT: The Fremen are literally in contact with, and constantly bribing the Guild just like everyone else. vvvvv I'm holding off on mentioning the long-term machinations of the Guild because that's kind of part of the plot of the book/movies. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:05
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Anonymous Zebra posted:It cannot be understated how completely neutral the Guild is to the day to day politics of the Imperium. lol that's not true at all and especially with respect to Arrakis
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Oct 24, 2021 01:07
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Combat Pretzel posted:What bothered me the most however is what the hell does everyone even eat on Arrakis? There's no circular ecosystem, everything is bound to go to poo poo (re: eating sandworms, which begs the question what do they eat).
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Oct 24, 2021 01:08
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The smuggling makes more sense in the context of the book where the profits of interestellar trade are divided up among the aristocracy by a state enterprise called CHOAM, which is like a space OPEC or space WTO. The Spacing Guild gets to double-dip on everyone else by getting their spice quota from CHOAM and also buying spice from the Fremen under the table.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:12
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shrike82 posted:It looks like the movie’s getting the same initial audience reaction as BR2049 where people get hit with the visual design and then after a while forget about the movie because of the lack of substance A reaction you've completely made up and which does not represent the current status of BR2049 at all.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:13
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Does the movie show the polar ice caps of Arrakis? I can't remember seeing them.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:26
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No but neither does the book, except on the map. The movie never makes clear that Arrakeen is located just above the arctic circle. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:32
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It was pretty funny the Atreides were using some phalanx tactics on the steps to the palace. That...seems like a pretty good idea, although isn't the canonical idea with the Hotlzmann effect that it actually reflects momentum? But what if your spear has a shield on it?
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Oct 24, 2021 01:39
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I was expecting the bloody rape of oil bath boy. Classy move, Villeneuve. Overall this movie was a fair homage to Emperor of the Fading Suns.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:41
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porfiria posted:It was pretty funny the Atreides were using some phalanx tactics on the steps to the palace. That...seems like a pretty good idea, although isn't the canonical idea with the Hotlzmann effect that it actually reflects momentum? But what if your spear has a shield on it? Considering they were willing to use lasers against shielded targets, I think it's safe to say the Hotlzmann effect is different in the movie compared to the book except for where they explicitly said things are the same.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:43
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Nitrousoxide posted:Considering they were willing to use lasers against shielded targets, I think it's safe to say the Hotlzmann effect is different in the movie compared to the book except for where they explicitly said things are the same. Yeah which I think raises the question of why everyone isn't using lasers in the movie. That one they used on the door didn't look THAT cumbersome--why not just use those to cut the Atreides to pieces in the landing zone? Maybe lasers flat out don't work on shields in the movie?
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Oct 24, 2021 01:46
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Payndz posted:Better than the Dark Knight Rises cops vs thugs interpretive dance battle y/n they are roughly the same level. Its just the fremen will seem tough to sell as even bigger badasses than the sardaukar when they just got punk'd by Conan (Reboot) and and a bunch of old grampas in the desert. The best fight sequence was the one where paul sees the Jihad in his name. The shot of the Fremen rising up from the sand is way cooler than the fight itself. Alchenar posted:
Hardcore vikings with Throatsinging DJs. Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 01:56
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reminded me of that song from super troopers.
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Oct 24, 2021 02:16
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Movie rules, haters GTFO
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Oct 24, 2021 02:21
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Oct 24, 2021 02:21
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Oct 24, 2021 02:32
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