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I liked the movie a lot. I think some of the choices made to put distance between it and the Lynch version came of as a bit forced. It's not impossible to make a good movie with voiced internal monologue. Having Lady Jessica recite the Litany Against Fear outside of the room during the Gom Jabbar is a departure, albeit small, from the plot of the books, but one can justify it as her trying to control the fear she feels for her son. Unfortunately, the people I saw the movie with, who had not read the books or seen the Lynch version, all thought she was casting a spell on Paul from the other room, allowing him to pass the test. If "no internal monologue" was a studio directive or whatever, one could just have Paul recite the prayer out loud during the test; it does not seem essential for it to be taken in silence and it's maybe less confusing? Having Yueh show up in, maybe, one scene before his betrayal, and giving no explanation for why his betrayal is such a shock surprised me, but I guess it was a sort of a plot hole in the books just how his programming was supposed to work and how it was circumvented, so simplifying that is no great loss. Also, taking the time in the movie to set all of that up does sort of make it obvious who is going to be the traitor from the get go.
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Oct 24, 2021 19:55
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They needed a shot of Paul's hand melting obviously.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:10
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Pedro De Heredia posted:It's ok to just admit "I wish things I imagined from the book were here." Don't know why people feel compelled to dress it up as concern for non-book readers. You don't have to be 'objective' about this kind of stuff. After watching Jodorowsky's Dune again, I think this is best explained by Alejandro himself: its a very difficult process to transform literature (and especially a dense literature like Dune) into the optical It's simply impossible to recreate the "book in the mind" as a film because of how incredible our brains are in constructing the structures, scenes, concepts and everything described from the written word. The literary narrative operates on an entirely different dimension from the cinematic narrative, and when translating the former into the latter, a lot of that construction is inevitably lost and much has to be compromised for the reality of the medium (time, for example; books are unconstrained by it while movies do) However, what is viable (and imho what any narrative translation should attempt to do) for an adaptation is the feelings, the thematic force so to speak, that the original work has caused in the audience. A cinematic narrative can offer a different mode of experience of that thematic force, and succeeds (again imho) when it evokes that original sentiment but in a new way. some complaints are for real understandable when coming from the perspective of expecting the literary narrative on film, which I think it's inevitably disappointing since the "book on the mind" is an unique construction to every reader informed by their own imagination and their own characteristics. Unfortunately, no director can shoot that one into film
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Oct 24, 2021 20:12
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Maybe I overread the movie because I've read the book so many times, but a lot of the things I'm hearing people wish were in the movie are things that I felt the movie conveyed well. Like Yueh's close relationship to Jessica and the family is, I think, well conveyed by him being the only other person present when Jessica brings Paul before the Reverend Mother, he and Paul speaking in a secret language, and Jessica commanding him to remain silent. The politics are, I think, well conveyed by the conversations with Rabban, Piter, the Baron, and later the Reverend Mother. The importance of Spice is outright stated in one of the filmbook expositions and shown by the empty Spice silos and Paul's reactions to it.Lawman 0 posted:They needed a shot of Paul's hand melting obviously. Like I'm pretty sure you're joking, but there's a shot of Paul's right hand burned to ash and bone in that sequence.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:16
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everyone who doesn't like this movie Is Wrong
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Oct 24, 2021 20:19
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PeterWeller posted:Maybe I overread the movie because I've read the book so many times, but a lot of the things I'm hearing people wish were in the movie are things that I felt the movie conveyed well. Like Yueh's close relationship to Jessica and the family is, I think, well conveyed by him being the only other person present when Jessica brings Paul before the Reverend Mother, he and Paul speaking in a secret language, and Jessica commanding him to remain silent. The politics are, I think, well conveyed by the conversations with Rabban, Piter, the Baron, and later the Reverend Mother. The importance of Spice is outright stated in one of the filmbook expositions and shown by the empty Spice silos and Paul's reactions to it. Kind of? I think it's a shot of a burned hand sticking out of a pile of burned bodies from one of his jihad visions.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:23
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I'm so sick of "generic female middle eastern acapella" used as a musical cue, but ironically this is the one film where it might have actually fit! That is, if it wasn't so overused in Hollywood at the moment that it practically feels like a meme whenever it kicks in...
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Oct 24, 2021 20:24
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PeterWeller posted:Like I'm pretty sure you're joking, but there's a shot of Paul's right hand burned to ash and bone in that sequence.  .......... I must have looked away?
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Oct 24, 2021 20:28
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Baron von Eevl posted:Kind of? I think it's a shot of a burned hand sticking out of a pile of burned bodies from one of his jihad visions. in that linked video of Villeneuve talking about the gom jabbar scene he talks about how they applied a wood texture to the hand to get the burnt look they wanted, it's definitely paul's imagination (or whatever) of his hand burnt to cinders eke out fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 20:29
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Baron von Eevl posted:Kind of? I think it's a shot of a burned hand sticking out of a pile of burned bodies from one of his jihad visions. Nah, there are two different visions that I think you're conflating. The one from the Gom Jabbar trial is just a burnt right hand over sand. Later Paul sees a vision of a pile of burnt corpses that I think the burnt bodies of the gas tooth's victims. The right hand is also missing its ring finger, so it can very well be a vision of Leto's burnt remains, but at that point in the film, the only right hand of any significance is the one Paul has put in the box that contains pain. And the visions have layered meanings. For example, the visions of Chani's bloody hand holding a crysknife both show that she will hand Paul the blade he uses to kill and, by switching from Chani's left to right hand in different versions, clue Paul in to the trick Jamis tries to pull in their duel. Lawman 0 posted:
Lol. It's really quick. And I might only recall it because I've watched the movie 3 times already. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 20:34
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I don't remember a shot of Paul's hand inside the box like Lynch's movie had, I remember cutting to flashes of lots of burned or hot things like the sun, the sand, a pile of burned bodies with a prominent hand sticking out.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:34
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Extremely not what I said. I said they cut some of the bloat that wasn't neccesary for the plot to get its point across. Read the words being put on the screen. It's fine, I believe you, being misinterpreted and piled on is the best part of the forums! But yeah, I think it erred too far on the other side in favor of.... I don't even know. I guess I want the 5 hour cut we'll never get. Polo-Rican posted:I'm so sick of "generic female middle eastern acapella" used as a musical cue, but ironically this is the one film where it might have actually fit! That is, if it wasn't so overused in Hollywood at the moment that it practically feels like a meme whenever it kicks in... The score ends up being the biggest letdown, which is sad. And this part of it was the worst element.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:35
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I'm very pleased with how non-Dune fans seem to be able to follow and enjoy the movie. I wouldn't necessarily know that watching it because I can't unlearn what I already know, but given that it still felt like weird Dune and people understand it... that's pretty impressive. I know everyone has their own opinion, but I don't get how you could be a sci fi fan and not enjoy this movie. Despite Dune being aped for many other sci fi properties over the years (for instance, Star Wars) it still feels new. Lawman 0 posted:They needed a shot of Paul's hand melting obviously. They show flashes of a charred hand, but I agree that it seems more like a vision than representing the pain he feels.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:36
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AlternateAccount posted:The score ends up being the biggest letdown, which is sad. And this part of it was the worst element. Strangely, the score felt all over the place to me!! There were a few points that I really loved, but others were as generic as can be, and then some others made me physically wince. I'm pretty sure they blast the female Acapella "wahhAhhAhh" thing right as Kynes dies, and I swear for a second I thought it was her screaming rather than music lol
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Oct 24, 2021 20:37
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Baron von Eevl posted:I don't remember a shot of Paul's hand inside the box like Lynch's movie had, I remember cutting to flashes of lots of burned or hot things like the sun, the sand, a pile of burned bodies with a prominent hand sticking out. There's no shot of his hand in the box. You're right that there are flashes of burning and heat imagery, but the hand shot that flashes in that sequence is a burnt hand alone over the sand. I just checked (thanks HBOMax). And now I want to watch this for the 4th time. Glottis posted:They show flashes of a charred hand, but I agree that it seems more like a vision than representing the pain he feels. Like I said, it can be both. But also, it's not like the film doesn't already convey his pain with all the moaning and crying and incredibly tense music.
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Oct 24, 2021 20:41
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:everyone who doesn't like this movie Is Wrong
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Oct 24, 2021 20:42
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Polo-Rican posted:Strangely, the score felt all over the place to me!! There were a few points that I really loved, but others were as generic as can be, and then some others made me physically wince. I'm pretty sure they blast the female Acapella "wahhAhhAhh" thing right as Kynes dies, and I swear for a second I thought it was her screaming rather than music lol it's aggressively ethnic making me suddenly very uncomfortable, a stranger in my own god drat seat.. whats up DENNIS... couldnt get god drat normal music?? sick of it sick of this poo poo
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Oct 24, 2021 21:07
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Polo-Rican posted:Strangely, the score felt all over the place to me!! There were a few points that I really loved, but others were as generic as can be, and then some others made me physically wince. I'm pretty sure they blast the female Acapella "wahhAhhAhh" thing right as Kynes dies, and I swear for a second I thought it was her screaming rather than music lol This is a better assessment. It hits a few times, but it missed a bunch.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:14
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The score is missing sweet overdrive guitar solos with tons of compression and reverb. E: On a serious note, I loved all the reverb on the dialog in scenes like the one where they first meet Kynes. It really helped establish that they're in these massive old structures made of stone. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 21:16
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thotsky posted:I liked the movie a lot. The Suk programming is a dumb plot point because it's introduced in the book and immediately fails. It's neater if they just don't suspect him because he's a good dude with a good reason to hate the Harkonnens just like Gurney.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:32
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The only reason Herbert included the Suk programming is because otherwise it's impossible to have a spy because Jessica is a living lie detector. In the book you can hear her internal monologue and she KNOWS Yueh is hiding something, but trusts the Imperial Conditioning so much that she believes he can't possibly betray the Duke.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:38
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Its fine not to have the traitor sub-plot at all. The film creates a sense of looming disaster and a secret plot against the atreides without needing to introduce a second plot against the atreides they know about. E: The 'we know there's a traitor' i mean Alchenar fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 21:40
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I thought this movie was downright awful. From the score, script, plot, costumes, acting, directing, shots, etc. I've watched daytime soaps and 80s trash with better acting. There's no conviction behind anything the actors are saying. Did they buy the costumes from a temporary Halloween store in an empty mall? All the Islamic stuff was forced in. Everything looks too clean which was my problem with BR2049. In fact it's slower and longer than BR2049 but even more unimaginable. Denis is a total hack. BR2049 was utterly pointless and this is just straight garbage. You know its bad when I'd rather watch a Zack Snyder movie over this, hell I'll even take Batman v Superman. Marvel movies are better than this, and all those are just amusement rides with dumb jokes. This is absolutely worse than Lynch's Dune. And Lynch's version has its own problems, sure like the hamfisted acting and the melodramatic inner monologue crap. But kudos to Lynch for trying to detangle such an intricate story without watering it down too much for the masses. The visuals are still amazing and you get the sense of each distinct culture. Everything has a distinct look to it from the costumes, to the effects and even vehicles. It's a beautifully cohesive imaginative work. Denis' Dune is like the opposite, nothing too melodramtic but yet zero imagination and the story too simplified. Dune is just impossible to make as a movie. So much of that book is about world building and exposition and internal dialogue and so on.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:41
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Gadfly posted:All the Islamic stuff was forced in. Opinion discarded
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Oct 24, 2021 21:44
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Source your quotes
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Oct 24, 2021 21:46
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See I don't really agree with this; it explains as much as it needed to at the time, which is Space Travel. No spice = no safe navigation. That alone is enough to justify the gravity of why spice is so vital to control over the universe. The other effects that spice has to offer seems to be saved for the potential sequels when they start diving into the true ecology of the planet itself, which feels way more appropriate to weave into the narrative when they're actually growing up in that part of the setting. They do a good job of introducing other concepts that the spice amplifies, like how the MC greatly boosts his Genesis power from Preacher via commandment orders, but it's done through rising action beats instead of 'stand here while I explain X/Y/Z for fourty minutes'. The job of this film was to set up the political structure, standing and pressures that come with ruling under an opressive universal regime, and I feel they played a Royal Flush in this poker game. Sounds more like you wanted a massive exposition dump before the gears started turning, and that's never been a concept that lands with this type of medium. It's one of the things books have over all other types of media it works so well together, but put on film format is going to seem phenomenally boring to the casual audience. White Light fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 21:50
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Alchenar posted:Its fine not to have the traitor sub-plot at all. The film creates a sense of looming disaster and a secret plot against the atreides without needing to introduce a second plot against the atreides they know about. I’ve come around on this a bit. Yueh is less of a character and more of a plot device that was backed into due to other factors. I’m a traitor, I’m a rube, I’m dead.
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Oct 24, 2021 21:55
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Gadfly posted:I thought this movie was downright awful. From the score, script, plot, costumes, acting, directing, shots, etc. I've watched daytime soaps and 80s trash with better acting. There's no conviction behind anything the actors are saying. Did they buy the costumes from a temporary Halloween store in an empty mall? All the Islamic stuff was forced in. Everything looks too clean which was my problem with BR2049. In fact it's slower and longer than BR2049 but even more unimaginable. so this is a copy paste of a review by a marvel fanboy mad at dennis over his comments about marvel movies right
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Oct 24, 2021 21:56
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AlternateAccount posted:I’ve come around on this a bit. The other point it serves is to raise doubts about Jessica's loyalties with the other characters, but this is a film primarily about the Paul-Jessica relationship so I don't think that would work, and in any case we have that wonderful duke-Jessica scene where the BG connection is drawn out.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:06
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do the books explain why vlad is only a baron while leto is a duke? they both seem to have their own entire planet and be comparably powerful before the events of dune
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Oct 24, 2021 22:06
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Alchenar posted:The other point it serves is to raise doubts about Jessica's loyalties with the other characters, but this is a film primarily about the Paul-Jessica relationship so I don't think that would work, and in any case we have that wonderful duke-Jessica scene where the BG connection is drawn out. Yeah the Jessica doubt doesn’t really go anywhere and we got some better stuff in a good trade.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:14
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sean10mm posted:The Suk programming is a dumb plot point because it's introduced in the book and immediately fails. It's neater if they just don't suspect him because he's a good dude with a good reason to hate the Harkonnens just like Gurney. I mostly agree with this, but they still could have had more scenes with Yueh to establish his character and his relationship with the Atreides; it just seems like it comes out of nowhere from a rando servant, which is okay if it's just a dagger in the back, but felt underdeveloped here. One could take it out of the movie altogether, and assume all thopters carry stillsuits for the pilot and copilot, but you'd miss out on the whole poison tooth stuff which is sort of integral. thotsky fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 22:20
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If you want an interesting rewatch crank up the saturation. It seems like a pretty significant improvement. There's a bunch of visual info that's been lost in this weird monochrome color grade and amping the saturation actually brings a lot of it back.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:31
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Wafflecopper posted:do the books explain why vlad is only a baron while leto is a duke? they both seem to have their own entire planet and be comparably powerful before the events of dune I don't know if this is the specific cause, but they mention in the book one of the reasons the Harkonnens hate the Atreides is that, despite being more or less equal in power, some Atreides in the distant past married a Corrino princess and the Harkonnens can't claim that. So it could be that.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:31
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Defiance Industries posted:I don't know if this is the specific cause, but they mention in the book one of the reasons the Harkonnens hate the Atreides is that, despite being more or less equal in power, some Atreides in the distant past married a Corrino princess and the Harkonnens can't claim that. So it could be that. Yeah, it's never explicit, but one possibility is it reflects that the Atreides are more closely related to the Corrinos. Another possibility is that it's just a narrative shorthand for their relative standing: the Atreides are very popular among the noble houses and generally considered good people while the Harkonnen are generally loathed. One other possibility is that it's just an affectation. A member of the Landsraad is a member of the Landsraad and what they call themself--baron, duke, prince, emir, whatever--doesn't matter as long as they don't claim to be emperor.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:38
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Sedgr posted:If you want an interesting rewatch crank up the saturation. It seems like a pretty significant improvement. There's a bunch of visual info that's been lost in this weird monochrome color grade and amping the saturation actually brings a lot of it back. Confirm. It's kinda amazing how hard you can crank it before it starts too look overdone.
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Oct 24, 2021 22:56
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Wafflecopper posted:so this is a copy paste of a review by a marvel fanboy mad at dennis over his comments about marvel movies right How can I be a Marvel fanboy when I just called the movies theme park attractions with jokes?
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Oct 24, 2021 23:07
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Question: in the scene where the Sardukaur are negotiating with the harkonnens and those people are being sacrificed, is that a harkonnen world and the sardukaur are just there as guests, or was it a sardukaur location?
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Oct 24, 2021 23:14
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Question: in the scene where the Sardukaur are negotiating with the harkonnens and those people are being sacrificed, is that a harkonnen world and the sardukaur are just there as guests, or was it a sardukaur location? It's Salusa Secundus, a prison planet run by House Corrino(the emperor).
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Oct 24, 2021 23:20
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Question: in the scene where the Sardukaur are negotiating with the harkonnens and those people are being sacrificed, is that a harkonnen world and the sardukaur are just there as guests, or was it a sardukaur location? there's a brief subtitle thing that says it's salusa secundus: imperial army planet. it's the sardaukar homeworld. in the book lore, it's a prison planet.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:20
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