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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Question: in the scene where the Sardukaur are negotiating with the harkonnens and those people are being sacrificed, is that a harkonnen world and the sardukaur are just there as guests, or was it a sardukaur location? Its Selusa Secundus, the Sardukaur homeworld. Selusa Secundus is supposed to be one of the most hostile planets in the Imperium, surpassed only by Arrakis, they are raised on it and those who survive are trained to be soldiers.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:23
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AlternateAccount posted:Confirm. It's kinda amazing how hard you can crank it before it starts too look overdone. DUNC: It's Amazing How Hard You Can Crank
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Oct 24, 2021 23:25
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Can't wait for part 2 bring it on
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Oct 24, 2021 23:29
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Here's something I would have changed in the story: So the Fremen messiah myth is a false prophecy planted in the Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit for potential manipulation. I would have emphasized this point by making Paul an imperfect fit for the prophecy. For instance, when Kynes inspects Paul's stillsuit, she sees that he put it on properly yet he claims to have never done it before, and Kynes recalls the legend saying the messiah would know the Fremen ways "as if born to them". I would have changed it so that Duncan Idaho had taught Paul how to wear a stillsuit back on Caladan, and Paul practiced putting it on, but he lied about that to Kynes in order to appear clever. And further on in the story, Paul would have to falsify other details of his life to fully fit the Fremen prophecy.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:29
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Kurzon posted:Here's something I would have changed in the story: So the Fremen messiah myth is a false prophecy planted in the Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit for potential manipulation. I would have emphasized this point by making Paul an imperfect fit for the prophecy. For instance, when Kynes inspects Paul's stillsuit, she sees that he put it on properly yet he claims to have never done it before, and Kynes recalls the legend saying the messiah would know the Fremen ways "as if born to them". I would have changed it so that Duncan Idaho had taught Paul how to wear a stillsuit back on Caladan, and Paul practiced putting it on, but he lied about that to Kynes in order to appear clever. And further on in the story, Paul would have to falsify other details of his life to fully fit the Fremen prophecy. In the movie he prophesized that he and Jamis would be good friends and that Jamis would show him the ways of the desert. That kinda sorta came true but not even remotely in the way Paul was expecting. Which I loved because to me it shows Paul himself that he's not actually 100% godhead prediction machine and also it ads a bit more to that action scene because of course Paul repeatedly tries to get Jamis to yield, he's not "supposed" to die yet...oh poo poo.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:33
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Kurzon posted:Here's something I would have changed in the story: So the Fremen messiah myth is a false prophecy planted in the Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit for potential manipulation. I would have emphasized this point by making Paul an imperfect fit for the prophecy. For instance, when Kynes inspects Paul's stillsuit, she sees that he put it on properly yet he claims to have never done it before, and Kynes recalls the legend saying the messiah would know the Fremen ways "as if born to them". I would have changed it so that Duncan Idaho had taught Paul how to wear a stillsuit back on Caladan, and Paul practiced putting it on, but he lied about that to Kynes in order to appear clever. And further on in the story, Paul would have to falsify other details of his life to fully fit the Fremen prophecy. I think that would be missing the point though - Paul's struggle in the story is whether or not he wants to become this Messiah figure. Other people and events are dragging him towards the climactic moment where he has to fight Jamis, but he's hesitant about the path that's been set out for him all the way.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:33
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Kurzon posted:Here's something I would have changed in the story: So the Fremen messiah myth is a false prophecy planted in the Fremen culture by the Bene Gesserit for potential manipulation. I would have emphasized this point by making Paul an imperfect fit for the prophecy. For instance, when Kynes inspects Paul's stillsuit, she sees that he put it on properly yet he claims to have never done it before, and Kynes recalls the legend saying the messiah would know the Fremen ways "as if born to them". I would have changed it so that Duncan Idaho had taught Paul how to wear a stillsuit back on Caladan, and Paul practiced putting it on, but he lied about that to Kynes in order to appear clever. And further on in the story, Paul would have to falsify other details of his life to fully fit the Fremen prophecy. I think the issue here is that doing that would have required changing Paul's entire motivation. The role of messiah is something that is forced upon him, not something he is actively seeking. Him making himself try to fit the prophecy when he doesn't would be very out of character. It would also undermine the point that the prophecy is something that has been artificially planted within their society by the Bene Gesserit as a way to manipulate the Fremen and not a genuine divine prophecy.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:34
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I think it's worth noting that the Bene Gesserit prophecy isn't actually entirely cynical. Its planted into the society as a means of controlling it, but the Bene Gesserit really do believe that the person who makes use of it will be a superhuman who will lead humanity to greater and better things. It's a prophecy they genuinely intend to fulfil.
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Oct 24, 2021 23:38
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AnEdgelord posted:Its Selusa Secundus, the Sardukaur homeworld. Selusa Secundus is supposed to be one of the most hostile planets in the Imperium, surpassed only by Arrakis, they are raised on it and those who survive are trained to be soldiers. Selusa Secundus is the emperor’s prison planet.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:05
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PeterWeller posted:Yueh's close relationship to Jessica and the family is, I think, well conveyed by him being the only other person present when Jessica brings Paul before the Reverend Mother, he and Paul speaking in a secret language, They're just speaking Chinese.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:05
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AnEdgelord posted:I think the issue here is that doing that would have required changing Paul's entire motivation. The role of messiah is something that is forced upon him, not something he is actively seeking. Him making himself try to fit the prophecy when he doesn't would be very out of character. It would also undermine the point that the prophecy is something that has been artificially planted within their society by the Bene Gesserit as a way to manipulate the Fremen and not a genuine divine prophecy. It's not quite forced upon him. Paul has a choice, and he chooses to take up the role of messiah because it's the path to achieve his goals. I think the movie does a really good job of conveying this with Paul contradicting Jessica's desire and stating his path lies in the desert at the end. Alchenar posted:I think it's worth noting that the Bene Gesserit prophecy isn't actually entirely cynical. Its planted into the society as a means of controlling it, but the Bene Gesserit really do believe that the person who makes use of it will be a superhuman who will lead humanity to greater and better things. It's a prophecy they genuinely intend to fulfil. I think you're conflating the Kwisatz Haderach and Lisan-al-Gaib prophecies. The former is something the BG fervently believe in and works towards as essential an order meant to fulfill that prophecy. The latter is part of a grand scheme to implant legends and religions across the universe that will incline native populations towards taking in and aiding BG who need their protection. It was set up long before they had any idea that it would aid the Kwisatz Haderach's imminence. The movie could be more clear about that. An important point from the book is how Paul successfully syncretizes the Lisan-al-Gaib prophecy with Liet Kynes' ecological project. The latter is the reason for Kynes' power and respect among the Fremen. He's like a proto-LaG to them, not quite fulfilling the prophecy in his person but trying to fulfill it through his actions. A rough comparison may be that he's John the Baptist to Paul's Christ. Paul fulfills the conditions of the prophecy and takes up Kynes' ecological project as the way to achieve its promise. Arglebargle III posted:They're just speaking Chinese. Ahh word. I thought that might be the case, but I also figured it was meant to be the Atreides secret battle language. withak posted:Selusa Secundus is the emperor’s prison planet. It's both.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:08
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Parrotine posted:Sounds more like you wanted a massive exposition dump before the gears started turning, and that's never been a concept that lands with this type of medium. It's one of the things books have over all other types of media it works so well together, but put on film format is going to seem phenomenally boring to the casual audience. The Lynch dune starts with a massive exposition dump but I think it pulls if off because it's one of the most memorable and impressive scenes in the movie. It's the scene that introduces the Emperor's throne room and the gigantic tank with the guild navigator in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSV9S2Ol3bc&t=30s
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Oct 25, 2021 00:14
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The Lynch version pulls off pretty much everything except the Toto-scored Flash Gordon-esque battle scene in the climax. It's too camp for the tone of the movie, but not camp enough to be entertaining.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:27
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Need part two of this yesterday
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Oct 25, 2021 00:29
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Just got out of an absolutely packed 3pm matinee, somebody up thread theorized that all the olds (me) were waiting for Sunday and I think that is spot on. Third viewing for me, but first on the big screen. Looked really good on a 77" OLED, but drat it looks even that much better in the theater.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:37
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Wafflecopper posted:do the books explain why vlad is only a baron while leto is a duke? they both seem to have their own entire planet and be comparably powerful before the events of dune The real life explanation is that Herbert thought "baron" sounded evil and "duke" sounded noble. Sedgr posted:If you want an interesting rewatch crank up the saturation. It seems like a pretty significant improvement. There's a bunch of visual info that's been lost in this weird monochrome color grade and amping the saturation actually brings a lot of it back. It's wild how true this is and how much it does to alleviate my issues of it being draining to watch. Obviously it doesn't work 100% throughout the movie but in a significant amount of scenes there is a lot of information lost in the movie released as-is that's restored. stratdax fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 00:51
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Really hope this sticks the financial landing and kicks off more media on the universe. I really wanted more blade runner stuff, but after seeing this all I want is more Dune now now now.
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Oct 25, 2021 00:58
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Dunc was decent; I prefer the weirdness and ornate baroque style of Lynch and the miniseries, but at least this one has the novelty of a totally different look. It's very well made technically but I agree with the criticisms that it's too bare bones in terms of plot and character. I wasn't bored but there's not much going on, hence everyone asking about that spider-gimp aka the most interesting thing in the film. Hopefully there is a longer cut someday! Edit: worst thing I can say about it is the violence is super YA and no one drinks any piss
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Oct 25, 2021 00:59
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Can someone familiar with the books help me understand why the spice seemingly affects different people in slightly different ways? Does it give everyone clairvoyance? Like do the fremen experience visions in the same way Paul does? If not, how does it give the navigators that power? Is it just a matter of dosage? Is it just the combination of Paul's special upbringing and interaction with the spice that makes him special? This movie is my only exposure to Dune, aside from bits I've picked up in this thread and others. I don't mind future spoilers if that's necessary to answer fully
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Oct 25, 2021 01:12
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It's been a while since I read the book, but basically the dosages vary and the spice is processed into a wide variety of products with different effects. Paul's breeding and Bene Gesserit training makes his experience somewhat unique, I think.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:20
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I thought it was visually arresting, musically nerve-wracking and a fitting adaptation of the book. In my mind though, it could have been better. For such a long movie I thought there wasn't that much dialogue. The book, or the part of the book overlapping with the movie, is about Leto's impending doom via palace intrigue. I thought the sub plot of Thufir looking for spies and suspecting Jessica, or Jessica's interactions with Mapes, or some dialogue from the Baron about his traitor would have been appropriate. These scenes help tie together and build characters. They expand the world. They make the Baron be a more present character. And they all build tension toward Leto's ultimately failed attempt at survival. On the other hand, my gf who had no previous dune experience was able to get certain points just from hints and acting, and found the whole thing very stressful-- in a good way. I see lots of people in this thread are happy about politics being largely cut from the script, so maybe for the casual viewer this was a good choice. Still, I hope out for a directors cut. The trailer I watched had the Reverend Mother telling Paul that Leto was losing his planet and that he'd lose Arrakis, too-- this wasn't in the movie however. I hope there's more goodies like this.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:26
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Blood Boils posted:
They drink spit coffee though.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:26
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Polo-Rican posted:I thought this was really bad. Somehow, despite taking 2h30m for only half of the first book, it feels woefully incomplete and thin. The story ends at a weird point that's supposed to mark a turning point for Paul, but which barely works in the larger arc of the film. And so many worldbuilding details are left out... Important ones that make the characters and plot richer. I understand why you don't want to infodump science fiction world-building factoids on your audience, but let's face it, the books never had an amazing plot... they mainly just present a series of complex conspiracies and prophecies within a richly detailed world. If you try to only present the events of the story and skip the quirks and details, Dune is pretty dull! you're not the only one... sadly dissapointed by the film. it's not bad, but... it ain't great. one of his weaker films for sure, which makes me sad as i was really looking forward to this.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:35
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I think the early hype for this suggested it was a potential Fellowship of the Ring level juggernaught, and it isn't. So it could have been better.
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Oct 25, 2021 01:39
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Xander B Coolridge posted:Can someone familiar with the books help me understand why the spice seemingly affects different people in slightly different ways? pretty much. in the books, there's basically a tarot the fremen can use to vaguely predict the future. the fremen abilities are kinda latent in that sense, a consequence of from-birth spice exposure in the air, food and water. the navigators get it by being immersed in it and huffing it constantly (those helmets in the imperial procession weren't orange, they're filled with spice gas -- you can see their blue eyes faintly in some shots). paul's special upbringing does a lot of the work to give him such a powerful future-sight. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 01:44
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Roth posted:Need part two of this yesterday 
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Oct 25, 2021 01:58
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PeterWeller posted:Ahh word. I thought that might be the case, but I also figured it was meant to be the Atreides secret battle language. I got the impression the signing was the battle language, although they had way too many members of the household understanding it.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:09
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Xander B Coolridge posted:Can someone familiar with the books help me understand why the spice seemingly affects different people in slightly different ways? Horizon Burning explains it well. I'd add that it basically depends on dosage levels and there's a bit of biotruths involved. Pretty much all the nobility use it for its health and longevity effects that the movie mentions, which is why it's sometimes called a "geriatric" drug in the books. Prolonged exposure to it can provide one with prescience, which is where the Dune Tarot and the Spacing Guild's ability to fold space come in. The latter expose themselves to enough spice that they can predict probabilities and perform the complex equations necessary to fold space. Theirs is, in the Imperium, an exclusively male guild. Importantly, men use spice to look into the future. The Bene Gesserit, an exclusively female organization, use spice to unlock their ancestral memories. This is complicated somewhat in Heretics or Chapterhouse where it's explained that they can use overdoses of other super-psychedelic drugs to induce ancestral memories, but spice is the best drug for this process, so they don't need it the way the Guild does. But important here is that the BG women use spice to look into the past. This leads to why Paul can be the Kwisatz Haderach and why the KH is so important. He is a man trained bred and trained to use BG ways, and with the spice, he can tap into both prescience and ancestral memories, allowing him to bridge that gender divide and combine both sets of knowledge and wisdom. Baron von Eevl posted:I got the impression the signing was the battle language, although they had way too many members of the household understanding it. I think everyone in the house is supposed to know it. It's part of what makes one a member of House Atreides, even if one is a lowly house soldier. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 02:13
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PeterWeller posted:Horizon Burning explains it well. I'd add that it basically depends on dosage levels and there's a bit of biotruths involved. Pretty much all the nobility use it for its health and longevity effects that the movie mentions, which is why it's sometimes called a "geriatric" drug in the books. Prolonged exposure to it can provide one with prescience, which is where the Dune Tarot and the Spacing Guild's ability to fold space come in. The latter expose themselves to enough spice that they can predict probabilities and perform the complex equations necessary to fold space. Theirs is, in the Imperium, an exclusively male guild. Importantly, men use spice to look into the future. This is great, thank you. So during the first book (and by extension this movie), do the Fremen receive any nifty benefits beyond nebulously defined "health benefits" from constant exposure to the spice or does it just turn their eyes blue?
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Oct 25, 2021 02:19
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WB should greenlight the first couple sequels now with the intention that they won't shoot messiah for like 18 years so Paul can be old, and also they should shoot all the scenes with the Duncan gholas now with Momoa and like greenscreen him in to those movies when they start actually shooting them in 20+ years.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:20
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smooth jazz posted:Can't wait for part 2 bring it on The best DUNC
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Oct 25, 2021 02:21
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Xander B Coolridge posted:This is great, thank you. In order to get a lot of the psychic powers that spice can grant you you need a great deal of mental conditioning combined with the spice, with different kinds of mental conditioning producing different abilities. The Fremen are too busy surviving on Dune to go through this but the sheer amount they consume from it being in all the air and food on the planet does mean they can occasionally get flashes of some abilities but its always temporary, not something they can control and extremely rare.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:29
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Sedgr posted:If you want an interesting rewatch crank up the saturation. It seems like a pretty significant improvement. There's a bunch of visual info that's been lost in this weird monochrome color grade and amping the saturation actually brings a lot of it back.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:29
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I enjoyed this more than I expected tbh. I was concerned because the trailer made everything look kind of bland but there was enough creativity in all of the designs of the sets and fake-technology that it felt Dune-y to me. None of the action or big conversation scenes did much for me. I don’t think either were bad (this is purely a me problem but I have a hard time listening to actors say fake science fiction words while still taking things seriously) but imo the real star of the show was all the visual world building. What’s the reason behind cutting Feyd? I can’t remember if he factors in much in the first part of Dune
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Oct 25, 2021 02:29
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https://twitter.com/catholicdad420/status/1452292424185810954?t=iOvXYGiQXt9F7GP1amsAEw&s=19
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Oct 25, 2021 02:30
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This movie is what the star wars prequels should have been
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Oct 25, 2021 02:32
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stratdax fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 02:34
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Xander B Coolridge posted:This is great, thank you. They all experience some sort of limited prescient dreams and hold ritual spice orgies where they rely on the psychedelic and mind-opening aspects of the spice to turn big gently caress-fests into spiritual and communal bonding experiences. They also have a caste of priestesses called Sayyadina's who are sort of local BGs and use spice to unlock similar powers. Note that Stilgar calls Jessica a Sayyadina at the end of the movie. Also, Paul's vision where he sees that Jessica is pregnant involves her covered in henna tattoos of sacred runes, indicating that she will become one of these tribal priestesses.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:37
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One thing I really loved about that I haven't seen mentioned is how excellent the atmosphere and tone of the movie is. The whole movie is suffused with this feeling of impending doom that only grows more intense the longer it goes on. It also conveys very well just how utterly hostile Arrakis is to human habitation, every shot makes the planet look deeply uncomfortable to exist on.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:47
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fadam posted:What’s the reason behind cutting Feyd? I can’t remember if he factors in much in the first part of Dune he doesn't, and i think you could safely introduce him in part 2 with no real damage to the story. i figured they'd cut him as a consequence of nixing the stuff about the BG breeding program, but if they're included that it's likely that they'll include feyd given that he's a component of it and, in a sense, paul's antithesis. i could see part 2 getting into the political intrigue side of things a bit more than this film did as i figured it'd need to introduce the emperor and such before the climax.
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Oct 25, 2021 02:49
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