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thotsky posted:Also, the Gom Jabbar scene in the lynch version is among my favorite movie scenes of all time; the villevalle version was alright too, but not as good. moths posted:Isn't the existing religion on Arrakis just the BG long-game in an accidentally over-successful form? They pull that poo poo on every world, but on the planet with airborne precognition dust it ends up extra competent. At least one other religious mix is mentioned in the first book, which is the Orange-Catholic bible. Later books make it plain that Bene Tleilax have their own religion, and that even the Judaism is a thing. Basically, every single planet is likely to have either some form of Orange-Catholocism or its own religion, and Bene Gesserit have manipulated all of them to some degree. The primary difference between all the others and that of the Fremen is that the Fremen are the most oppressed people, and that they've spent thousands of years on oppressive planets in the Duniverse (Selusa Secundus, Bela Tegeuse, Poritrin, Rossak, and others) before arriving on Arrakis, the most oppressive of them all. One thing Frank Herbert seems to have been aware of is that oppression breeds religion. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 12:43
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Alan Smithee posted:so during the worm scene before they reach the fremen what was the weird hollow sand paul stepped on and what did he say Drum sand. Basically it's a patch of sand that reverberates really easily. So even if you're doing the Fremen stanky leg a worm will still hear you.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:11
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Honest Thief posted:sand drum is what i heard I'm rereading the book after seeing the movie and the planetologist explains both drum sand and sand eddies/pools, that's exactly what it was. FWIW I didn't catch that during the film itself and thought he had stepped over a fremen underground habitat. Edit: I didn't catch a lot of poo poo in the movie because the dialogue is drowned out, like Jessica's "fear is the mind killer" mantra was something I could only tell was happening because I was already familiar with it; I wish it'd been clear enough for a new generation of viewers to pick up. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 13:42
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cohsae posted:Drum sand. Basically it's a patch of sand that reverberates really easily. So even if you're doing the Fremen stanky leg a worm will still hear you. I thought he said "firm sand" and that his "Oh crap run" was because he realized he had stomped on it repeatedly to test it. I completely forgot Drum Sand was a thing in the books.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:53
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Does the mechanism for the worms traveling through the sand get explained in the original books? Having it be by some sort of vibration causing sand liquefaction rocked. Will admit I'm biased on this though, since practical engineering had a video on liquefaction and dam failures just a few days ago.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:58
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Automatic Slim posted:Like or dislike the 2021 version, but the constant referral and comparison to the ‘84 version is excessive and unnecessary. It's annoying but inevitable. I remember when Zack Snyder's Justice League came out, and most people could seemingly only talk about it in comparison to the 2017 theatrical cut
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Oct 25, 2021 13:58
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Jack B Nimble posted:I'm rereading the book after seeing the movie and the planetologist explains both drum sand and sand eddies/pools, that's exactly what it was. FWIW I didn't catch that during the film itself and thought he had stepped over a fremen underground habitat. My only real issue with the movie was that dialogue was hard to discern pretty frequently in the movie. Maybe it was watching it at home with not the best setup though.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:59
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2house2fly posted:It's annoying but inevitable. I remember when Zack Snyder's Justice League came out, and most people could seemingly only talk about it in comparison to the 2017 theatrical cut The comparison makes sense though, because both Dune and Snyder's JL are attempts to redeem universally panned, lovely movies, both of which have vocal minorities who scream endlessly that the original turd isn't a turd and everyone else was wrong and just doesn't get it
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Oct 25, 2021 14:13
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Does the mechanism for the worms traveling through the sand get explained in the original books? Having it be by some sort of vibration causing sand liquefaction rocked. Will admit I'm biased on this though, since practical engineering had a video on liquefaction and dam failures just a few days ago. I forget the techno-babbble reason but it's some kind of sonic thing the worms do combined with how their plates work so instead of burrowing or digging through the sand it's like swimming for them which is why they're able to just sink away or jump out to an extreme height if needed to devour stuff. Looked amazing to me
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Oct 25, 2021 14:15
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Something else I've been thinking about is how utterly frightening the setting is in this version. Feudalistic space fascism brought to life on a planetary scale- the dehumanization was palpable. Trillions of people living as serfs, only useful as various types of chattel for their masters...and the only hope of a tolerable life is to be born in a relatively benevolent House. That scene on the prison planet was serious nightmare fuel because it's a distinctly possible human future.
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Oct 25, 2021 14:23
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Randalor posted:I thought he said "firm sand" and that his "Oh crap run" was because he realized he had stomped on it repeatedly to test it. I completely forgot Drum Sand was a thing in the books.
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Oct 25, 2021 14:26
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Gonz posted:Put Sting in Part 2. having seen Sting in Only Murders in the Building this year, ITT just cast Sting as Feyd again
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Oct 25, 2021 14:32
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SpaceCadetBob posted:My only real issue with the movie was that dialogue was hard to discern pretty frequently in the movie. Maybe it was watching it at home with not the best setup though. I was in theatre and sound effects and the score would swell up to drown out dialogue. I remember it in the aforementioned scene and when they doing a flyby over the city and I could barely hear Gurney Halleck.
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Oct 25, 2021 14:32
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i had zero problems with the sound mixing in a big fuckoff theater it was way better in that regard than the new Bond movie
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Oct 25, 2021 14:37
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How do homing missiles work without computers Pffft
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Oct 25, 2021 14:47
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There were definitely some sound mixing issues in the largest IMAX theater near me. Jessica's litany against fear and Paul's vision in the tent were the most egregious examples of where the dialogue couldn't be heard. Luckily I had already watched it a few times at home but I worry the audience couldn't catch what was said. I think I'm going to watch it again in Dolby Cinema to see if it's any better. That said, I was floored by the movie and have been obsessed with it since my first viewing. Never read the books before which I'm rectifying now! Markkei fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 14:50
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Steve Yun posted:How do homing missiles work without computers Ork rules. The missiles are manually operated by suicide people.
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Oct 25, 2021 14:51
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Steve Yun posted:How do homing missiles work without computers Serious answer to obvious joke question: they have some level of computers, just nothing "smart" enough to get to the point of possibly wanting to overthrow humanity. After all, how was Paul's pet lightbulb following him unless they cramed a human brain in there? Actually, considering it's Harkonnans we're talking about, it could very well be that homing missles have lobotomized human brains in them.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:00
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Could be two seated aircraft with a dedicated gunner guiding the missles, swat cat style. Edit: or limited computers that don't create Skynet, yes, that's a much better answer. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 15:00
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I was surprised that the spider gimp didn't turn out to be Mrs Yueh.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:05
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The book has the harkonnens using old fashioned artillery rather than missiles and its considered very unusual because shields still block the shots but the artillery can be used to collapse buildings on the atreides soldiers so its unusually effective. The movie portrays projectile weapons as much more effective than the books.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:08
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moths posted:I was surprised that the spider gimp didn't turn out to be Mrs Yueh. why would it be.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:09
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Alchenar posted:Honestly the only scene I disliked was Paul's freakout in the tent because the sound made it almost impossible to make out what he was saying and that's pretty crucial stuff if you are a non-book reader. I found a few lines to be like that. They'd drop a new word on you that is important to the story, but it was almost muddled and hard to understand even if it wasn't a completely alien word, to the viewer. "Did he just yell at the ecology lady that the Land's Rad?"
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Oct 25, 2021 15:18
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Tankbuster posted:why would it be. Because that might actually show that the Harkonnans are actually cruel rather than us just being told that they're cruel? And it would fit in with Yueh's comment about how they threatened to take her apart ("and then put her back together in New and Interesting ways" would be a good addition to that)
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Oct 25, 2021 15:18
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Steve Yun posted:How do homing missiles work without computers Not very well, apparently! There are limits to clockwork.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:23
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Guided missiles were in the prototype stage in WWII when computers barely existed and were gigantic.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:27
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Steve Yun posted:How do homing missiles work without computers Although the real in-universe explanation has already been given, during WW2 there were attempts to make homing missiles which used pigeons
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Oct 25, 2021 15:29
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Oct 25, 2021 15:31
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Rabelais D posted:Mingo city (on the planet Mongo)
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Oct 25, 2021 15:32
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Thought this was pretty bad, I think it's time to stop adapting Dune
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Oct 25, 2021 15:33
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Randalor posted:Because that might actually show that the Harkonnans are actually cruel rather than us just being told that they're cruel? And it would fit in with Yueh's comment about how they threatened to take her apart ("and then put her back together in New and Interesting ways" would be a good addition to that) It was also reinforce the notion that the Harkonnans sort of keep their word. "Here's your wife, she's a spider now" would also foreshadow dumping Paul and Jessica in the desert because look we didn't kill them. Just a missed opportunity I guess.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:33
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Randalor posted:Because that might actually show that the Harkonnans are actually cruel rather than us just being told that they're cruel? We are shown the Harkonnens are cruel when they are shown murdering hundreds of people, including unarmed prisoners. Did you miss that part of the movie or something?
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Oct 25, 2021 15:36
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Does the mechanism for the worms traveling through the sand get explained in the original books? Having it be by some sort of vibration causing sand liquefaction rocked. Will admit I'm biased on this though, since practical engineering had a video on liquefaction and dam failures just a few days ago. I think I pointed this out elsewhere, but the six books that exist are the perfect example of how scifi can be used to tell stories about the human condition without lapsing into technobabble jargon. Neo Rasa posted:I forget the techno-babbble reason but it's some kind of sonic thing the worms do combined with how their plates work so instead of burrowing or digging through the sand it's like swimming for them which is why they're able to just sink away or jump out to an extreme height if needed to devour stuff. Looked amazing to me EDIT: To add to this, any explanation of anything Dune that involves technobabble comes from Those That Shall Not Be Named. KJA spent decades writing Star Wars fanfics using tons of technobabble, and has completely missed one of the points of the original books. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 15:37
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I liked it but not as much as I thought I would. Definitely feels incomplete (cos it is) but I'm looking forward to re-evaluating it once the second one is out.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:38
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shrike82 posted:the lynch movie tried to do something interesting The Lynch movie is full of interesting ideas like "what if we turned the space muslims culture into white people."
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Oct 25, 2021 15:43
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Pedro De Heredia posted:We are shown the Harkonnens are cruel when they are shown murdering hundreds of people, including unarmed prisoners. Did you miss that part of the movie or something? That's just war movie bad guy violence, though. We have the book to establish the Harkonnens' cruelty-is-art depravity and some rapey dialogue, but Dunc generally portrays them as run of the mill villains.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:43
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moths posted:That's just war movie bad guy violence, though. We have the book to establish the Harkonnens' cruelty-is-art depravity and some rapey dialogue, but Dunc generally portrays them as run of the mill villains. There is nothing particularly original or interesting about the Harkonnens being extra cruel or rapey. Its as "run of the mill" as you can get in this kind of story, especially in the year 2021, there's like a billion of these characters on GoT.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:46
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. E: That is, in 2021 they're just baseline movie villains. Turning Yueh's wife into a spider (then feeding him to her) to satisfy their reunification end of the deal (or body-horroring them together into a Cronenberg nightmare) would be more keeping with the expected Harkonnen excess. moths fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Oct 25, 2021 |
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Oct 25, 2021 15:49
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Re the Gom Jabbar scene, the costumes, set and feel were amazing. I liked the addition of Yueh, and I liked that Villanueve made the voice much more dramatic than it was in the book, and Charlotte Rampling and Rebecca Ferguson were both very good. For some reason I didn't find Timothy Chalamet completely believable (maybe I was just expecting the litany against fear instead of grunts), and I didn't like the change to have Paul "overcome" the pain. I would've liked a little more burning hand imagery and also the trailer had me hoping for a bit more exposition with the "My father rules an entire planet" conversation that got cut. I think I probably just built up the scene too much in my head. Overall I thought the movie was great. 99% of Villanueve's changes worked for me, and I thought he did a great job of making you feel the tension of the book, something that took Frank Herbert hundreds of pages of inner monologue and exposition to accomplish. My only real complaint is that I felt like the terrible purpose/jihad foreshadowing could've been more clear. I could barely understand what Paul was saying when he was freaking out in the tent, and the jihad visions were underwhelming.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:49
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The Lynch movie is full of interesting ideas like "what if we turned the space muslims culture into white people." Also made the Baron's depiction even more homophobic than a book written by a straight old dude in the 60s, somehow.
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Oct 25, 2021 15:53
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