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I'm amazed someone made a Dune movie where the Baron is leaden and boring. Just couldn't believe it.Kurzon posted:I don't know if it has been brought up in this thread already, but a lot of Warhammer 40,000 fans on various Reddit boards are saying that Dune is totally WH40K. I think the similarities are superficial.
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Oct 28, 2021 14:47
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Halloween Jack posted:The similarities are superficial because 40k is superficial. It began as a silly hodgepodge of Dune, Star Wars, Traveller, Alien, Tolkien, everything that was being published in 2000AD and Warrior, and whatever else struck their fancy. I'd probably have zero interest in it if it weren't for Dark Heresy. All those neat influences make the models cool, but I'm just more interested in the people and weird aliens and mysteries than baroque-looking Halo.
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Oct 28, 2021 14:52
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Warhammer is one of those things where the parts that I like are not the parts that Warhammer fans like.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:00
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Hodgepodge posted:I'd probably have zero interest in it if it weren't for Dark Heresy. All those neat influences make the models cool, but I'm just more interested in the people and weird aliens and mysteries than baroque-looking Halo. That's the poison-pill of the setting being tied to extremely bad war game. It's all fun and games when you're smashing every single pre-1988 sci-fi concept into one vague setting, but if war gamers are driving the market it's all going to be about troops and tanks and pretending you know tactics eventually.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:04
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2house2fly posted:Shadout uhh Bapes(?) "Shout out to Bape" (a bathing ape)
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Oct 28, 2021 15:39
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One bit I loved that I haven't seen anybody mention was when Paul and Jessica were starting up Kynes' hidden ornithopter and there was that common "there's problems getting it started and our pursuers are going to be here any moment!" bit, where Jessica keeps tensely looking towards the blackened door. You fully expect the Sardaukar to show up in the typical "stormtroopers shooting at the Millenium Falcon just as it flies away" manner, but they just... don't. They followed Kynes instead.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:39
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I'm going to assume, for my sanity's sake, that they actually planned out Part 2 properly before making Part 1 because otherwise, uh, that is not good.FLIPADELPHIA posted:lol you think without shields, the soldiers of the far distant future would use knives? Mike the TV posted:The Spider-Thing really grossed me out when I saw that it was probably a person. Not going to happen otherwise part 2 would just be a full three hour infodump instead of a movie.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:39
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DV wants to make "at least three" Dunes  quote:"I always envisioned three movies," Villeneuve says. "It's not that I want to do a franchise, but this is Dune, and Dune is a huge story. In order to honor it, I think you would need at least three movies. That would be the dream. To follow Paul Atreides and his full arc would be nice." e: El Grillo posted:I'm going to assume, for my sanity's sake, that they actually planned out Part 2 properly before making Part 1 because otherwise, uh, that is not good. It's absolutely standard practice.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:39
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feedmyleg posted:DV wants to make "at least three" Dunes 
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Oct 28, 2021 15:41
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ALFbrot posted:One bit I loved that I haven't seen anybody mention was when Paul and Jessica were starting up Kynes' hidden ornithopter and there was that common "there's problems getting it started and our pursuers are going to be here any moment!" bit, where Jessica keeps tensely looking towards the blackened door. You fully expect the Sardaukar to show up in the typical "stormtroopers shooting at the Millenium Falcon just as it flies away" manner, but they just... don't. They followed Kynes instead. This was fantastic. Villeneuve was surely aware of that but let the closed door and closed door only drive all the suspense. Brilliant 👏
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Oct 28, 2021 15:45
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El Grillo posted:This is one of the four billion totally unexplained things that I would like to be explained in the sequel lol. There are ways to explain things to the audience without lame voiceovers or expository dialogue, but this film doesn't care about that either. I just wonder how many people praising the film ITT haven't read any of the books? Because I saw it with someone who hasn't read any of the books nor seen any of the previous adaptations, and they had the same reaction a lot of people had to the Lynch movie: this is total nonsense and I don't understand what's happening or why.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:47
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Halloween Jack posted:I saw it with someone who hasn't read any of the books nor seen any of the previous adaptations, and they had the same reaction a lot of people had to the Lynch movie: this is total nonsense and I don't understand what's happening or why. Please stop ragging on your idiot friend, it's kinda mean. Just because he or she is too dumb to understand a movie doesn't mean you can come to the internet to make fun of them.
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Oct 28, 2021 15:53
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Halloween Jack posted:If you've read the books, it's obvious that the Harkonnen have turned a person into a spider-gimp for gross sex reasons. If you haven't read the books, this is totally random because they do absolutely nothing to convey that the Harkonnens are obscenely decadent, besides one scene where the Baron is stuffing his face, offscreen. Weird because I keep talking to non-book friends who loved it
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Oct 28, 2021 15:56
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Book reading friends and non-book reading friends have all loved it. Great take on the series generally, but not without a few faults seems to be the median take
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Oct 28, 2021 15:59
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I really liked the film, but it felt like someone was skipping every other chapter on the bluray menu. I really want to see the ~4 hour cut Momoa mentioned. Right now it feels like the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven: a good film that was cut down from a great one. As for non-book readers, if they are confused I explain it like this: https://twitter.com/augustjpollak/status/1451379917137096727?s=21
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Oct 28, 2021 16:08
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Luv 2 b reductive
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Oct 28, 2021 16:13
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I really liked the film, but it felt like someone was skipping every other chapter on the bluray menu. I really want to see the ~4 hour cut Momoa mentioned. Right now it feels like the theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven: a good film that was cut down from a great one. Hey. Hey. Hey. That line is wrong. It's a planet made of cocaine with some rocks mixed in. As far as his desire to make three films... please tell me he means "Dune and its sequels" and not just "Dune", because he covered... what, 2/3rds to 3/4s of Dune in this movie? If he just meant "Dune"... gently caress me, the second movie is just going to be the 2-year timeskip or all of the political stuff cut from the first movie, isn't it?
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Oct 28, 2021 16:16
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I like the part where Paul says he'd rather have a song than a fight from Gurney, and it makes no sense because there is no context to know that Gurney Halleck is a bard. Lots of little things like that. Saving the Emperor and the Guild for later is a bold choice I respect. Not so much how they replaced the repartee between Vladimir and Piter de Vries with...nothing.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:16
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Randalor posted:Hey. Hey. Hey. That line is wrong. It's a planet made of cocaine with some rocks mixed in. Beware! The fearsome Cocaine Worms are drawn to the sound of sniffing.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:23
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I wish Villanueve had kept the conversation about the bull's head between Shadout Mapes and Jessica. I'll put it in spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book (even though it doesn't really spoil anything) E: also it foreshadows part 2 doesn't it, where Paul will successfully tame the mighty moon worm moths posted:This would work where it cuts back to Paul frowning, and your "death" was just a possible future he didn't like. 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 16:24
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm amazed someone made a Dune movie where the Baron is leaden and boring. Just couldn't believe it. I loved this movie but going back over it the various things I felt it whiffed on I think that really is my biggest complaint with it. I liked the idea of the Baron's general tone being more corporate rear end in a top hat but the total flatness was a huge misstep. This guy wants the ENTIRE house of Atreides wiped out and as far as he knows pulls it off and even gets the Emperor on his side via support from the Sardaukar and he seems indifferent at best? Even after almost getting killed by Leto? The gently caress? Why does, as we learn early on via Thufir, this insanely wealthy house live in featureless caves? They show what looks like a city in the establishing shot. Caladan - lots of water, its people to an extent even have have homes/facilities/whatever underwater as we see when the ships are taking off. Their dead leaders are placed in those Roman-ish above ground sarcophagi like gladiators on a cliff overlooking the sea, the grandfather died in a bullfight, like all the little bits give us a lot about Caladan and what the Atreides are about with very little screen time. Salusa Secondus - Planet full of super strict ritual warrior folks that anoint themselves with the blood of other folks, like it's such a short scene but we still get a lot out of it Arrakis - We spend the most time here so understandably the most care goes into fleshing out how stuff on Dune works Giedi-Prime - ???? They choose to live like this? Are they all super pale because they built this massive city planet and then chose to live in unlit caverns instead? Like all the small bits and visuals click in the other locations to give you something. They have some goop pool you can be healed up in? Also at some point was the spider-person supposed to be Yueh's wife? I get the feeling Feyd was cut from the story completely and Rabban is just going to be it. Otherwise his orders to squeeze here wouldn't have been built around them needing massive amounts of income to cover their re-taking of Arrakis - In the book it's because he wants to set up the people of Arrakis to despise Rabban's rule so that he can drop Feyd in to rule with a softer touch making him beloved. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 16:30
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Halloween Jack posted:If you've read the books, it's obvious that the Harkonnen have turned a person into a spider-gimp for gross sex reasons. If you haven't read the books, this is totally random because they do absolutely nothing to convey that the Harkonnens are obscenely decadent, besides one scene where the Baron is stuffing his face, offscreen. I read the first book a long time ago, and only dimly remember a lot of it now. Some of it I've misremembered clearly, like I remember Duncan Idaho going out like a chump, getting his head cut off in the middle of a sentence that was about something else entirely I think the Harkonnens as decadent perverts wouldn't work so well with the tone this movie was going for. Like in the Lynch version the Baron was a gay rapist with AIDS who flew around cackling and chopped up cows in his throne room and poo poo, something like that would be way out of place here
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Oct 28, 2021 16:37
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2house2fly posted:There's a scene early in the movie where Gurney says "the slow knife penetrates the shield" which felt really redundant since they'd already shown it visually with Paul tapping himself and setting off the shield. Yeah, when he does the knife tapping, I thought, oh cool they're just going to show how it works. I guess that line is considered so iconic it has to be in. And I love that visual, especially how the Harkonnen ship drops a big flare first to illuminated everything. Baron von Eevl posted:You're never going to get a faithful Neuromancer film that also has anything close to broad appeal because Neuromancer is 1/3 quaintly outdated and 1/3 hilariously off-base as a prediction of the future. I've long felt that Inception is already a good loose adaptation of Neuromancer. also nah, it's pretty loving great op
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Oct 28, 2021 16:38
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I bought the performance as the Baron being jaded. He's been accumulating unimaginable power for decades and he doesn't even seem that happy about it, he's the wasteful apex of an entire system of greed and ambition.
Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 16:39
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Warhammer chat: Just an FYI, for those who haven't been into or read 40k in years/decades, GW replaced all their management in 2015/16 and things have gotten a lot better in many areas of the lore and books. There are some truly great books written since then that aren't just space marine bolter porn wank fest. Books that stand on their own as legit good science fiction literature. If you ever had an interest in 40k, but got turned off come on over to the Black Library thread and we can give you some good recommendations for recent stuff (because there are still some poo poo books). The funniest part of a lot of the Warhammer fandom reaction are the idiots who think Dune ripped off 40k instead of the other way around and get real mad about it.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:42
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The thing with reading Hams fiction or any other licensed fiction is you could just read the stuff they're riffing on and ripping off instead. E: And I say this as a dude who loves to read lovely Forgotten Realms novels.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:53
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My wife hadn't read any books/played any games/seen the previous movie/TV series and said she had no problem following along - she said it's been her favorite movie in a while, which really surprised me. A few things I got to expand on she wasn't sure about: -Jessica's relationship to Leto - she didn't get the "I should have married you" bit at first, we both wished they went into her position as Consort more/why her love of the Duke was why she had a son in the first place, her struggle between her feelings and the Bene Gesserit -More detail into the role of Spice - the movie does explain the concious-expanding/life-extending/"Space travel" aspect, some examples or a demo might have bee useful -Who the spy in the walls was/why he was there (I think the Lynch movie did a better job here of explaining the Harkonnen saboteurs - the 2021 film spends time showing us the equipment issues they left behind, but less about traps etc) Honestly I'm shocked there wasn't more - the fact that they were able to adapt this much and have new audiences trust and follow it is great to see. I did not like having to explain how Harkonnen is supposed to be pronounced 
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Oct 28, 2021 16:54
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Randalor posted:As far as his desire to make three films... please tell me he means "Dune and its sequels" and not just "Dune", because he covered... what, 2/3rds to 3/4s of Dune in this movie? If he just meant "Dune"... gently caress me, the second movie is just going to be the 2-year timeskip or all of the political stuff cut from the first movie, isn't it? Article says the third film would be Dune Messiah.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:56
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ALFbrot posted:One bit I loved that I haven't seen anybody mention was when Paul and Jessica were starting up Kynes' hidden ornithopter and there was that common "there's problems getting it started and our pursuers are going to be here any moment!" bit, where Jessica keeps tensely looking towards the blackened door. You fully expect the Sardaukar to show up in the typical "stormtroopers shooting at the Millenium Falcon just as it flies away" manner, but they just... don't. They followed Kynes instead. This was the most tense moment of the movie for me and the pay off is it didn't happen. Villaneuve addressed the tension in that situation but didn't abuse it. It also lulls us into false safety when the Sardaukar kill Kynes.
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Oct 28, 2021 16:57
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I'd have liked for the big ships folding space to create a blue portal or something, the same shade of blue that people's eyes go on spice, to visually link spice and interstellar travel. In the movie it looks like these big long ships are just in orbit over every planet and going through them takes you somewhere else, there's no fanfare to it. Should have made it more clear that going from one star system to another is a Big Deal. Obviously a hosed up looking guild navigator wouldn't have gone amiss too
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Oct 28, 2021 16:59
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This isn't meant to be a catty snipe at anyone, seriously it isn't, but these posts of "I didn't quite get x y z" remind me that a good movie rewards multiple viewings, and I think it's OK if various intricacies in the plot which are present but not highlighted are something people pick up in later viewings when the larger picture of the film is already in place. And I'm not smugly saying I'm the one true movie understander, it applies just as well to me.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:02
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Halloween Jack posted:I like the part where Paul says he'd rather have a song than a fight from Gurney, and it makes no sense because there is no context to know that Gurney Halleck is a bard. Lots of little things like that. Wasn't that like -- the line that introduced us to Gurney? You know he's a bard from that line itself. How does it nor make sense? He's clearly quoting poetry a little later and reading from a little scripture book too. I do think we coulda used him strumming something at some point but it's not like it was hard to understand. Maybe we'll get a song out of him in movie 2, making this good foreshadowing.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:05
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Neo Rasa posted:I liked the idea of the Baron's general tone being more corporate rear end in a top hat but the total flatness was a huge misstep. quote:Giedi-Prime - ???? They choose to live like this? Are they all super pale because they built this massive city planet and then chose to live in unlit caverns instead? Like all the small bits and visuals click in the other locations to give you something. They have some goop pool you can be healed up in? I thought another big whiff was making the environments too similar. On Caladan, everyone wears black and it's greige and wet. On Giedi Prime, everyone wears black and it's always raining. On Salusa Secundus, everyone wears white and it's greige and always raining. (I did like the human sacrifices on Salusa Secundus. A possible reference to The Holy Mountain?
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Oct 28, 2021 17:08
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PeterWeller posted:The thing with reading Hams fiction or any other licensed fiction is you could just read the stuff they're riffing on and ripping off instead. Their definitely better than the new Dune books and you can only re-read Dune and the other inspirations so many times.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:09
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D-Pad posted:Warhammer chat: Just an FYI, for those who haven't been into or read 40k in years/decades, GW replaced all their management in 2015/16 and things have gotten a lot better in many areas of the lore and books. There are some truly great books written since then that aren't just space marine bolter porn wank fest. Books that stand on their own as legit good science fiction literature. If you ever had an interest in 40k, but got turned off come on over to the Black Library thread and we can give you some good recommendations for recent stuff (because there are still some poo poo books). Hey, ripping off 40k gave us a perfectly serviceable prequel to the entire timeline, Event Horizon! Also, I liked this Baron as a post-Cheney version of the character, but I do miss the fun part of the epic space opera villain scenery chewing. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Oct 28, 2021 |
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Oct 28, 2021 17:17
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People should read Nemesis: The Warlock. It's fun and has a completely deranged and flamboyant madman Baron/Emperor character who's extremely straight-coded for once.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:18
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Neo Rasa posted:I get the feeling Feyd was cut from the story completely and Rabban is just going to be it. Otherwise his orders to squeeze here wouldn't have been built around them needing massive amounts of income to cover their re-taking of Arrakis - In the book it's because he wants to set up the people of Arrakis to despise Rabban's rule so that he can drop Feyd in to rule with a softer touch making him beloved. The squeezing for income is actually what he tells Rabban is the point in the book, I just read past that part yesterday. There's no inner monologue in this film so there's no way to know what people's real plans and thoughts are. He doesn't say a drat word out loud to anyone about his real plan with Feyd supplanting Rabban.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:19
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, I'm fine with the Baron not being a giant fat ball of gay panic, but he should absolutely be a madman. It's like they gave Skarsgard notes that said "Palpatine, but not the parts where he's enjoying himself." McMillan and Dourif were wonderful, McNiece was a joy. This is like if you made a Batman movie where the Joker was a boring gangster in a purple suit and the Riddler was a boring gangster in a green suit. That's one thing I really enjoyed about David Lynch's Dune was that they nailed the "casual cruelty" aspect of Harkonnans, and if they had been just a bit more serious, it could have been outright chilling. Sucks that they leaned so hard on the "gay panic" aspect of the Baron though.
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Oct 28, 2021 17:23
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I had a great time with this. Saw it in the theater, thought that was mega worth it. Noon matinee on Monday means there were two other people in the whole screening besides my party. Considering a second trip to see it in IMAX and on more drugs. I like that the story is framed as Chani's / the Fremen's even if neither of them are really actually in the film that much. Better than giving it to Irulan and helps try to offset the white savior provlem. I would have liked a space folding scene, though I appreciate they specifically say that the spice helps the navigators plot a course -- they get all hopped up and do hyper math, as opposed to the Lynch one where it seemed like the spice is what enables the actual tech to work (like, space travel is a psychic ability.) There are a lot of things I feel like the could have exposited on more, but that's as a book reader etc not having faith that people can figure poo poo out by context clues. None of the people I saw it with were new (we even read it as a book club thing a while back) so I don't have anyone to bounce those particular questions off of. A lot of the political machinations were a little understated and I wonder if it was an attempt to make this more self contained? Like, it's very obviously set up for a sequel but it could have been even MORE so, if that makes sense. It felt like they deliberately excised a lot of plot threads they could have started dangling because they would have made this one more unsatisfying?
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Oct 28, 2021 17:26
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I feel it's important to show that regardless of being really evil there are valuable traits in the harkonnens that the BG want in the KH and indeed paul manifests. Lynch dune didn't get this in the slightest bit, denis dune maybe gets it a tiny bit but the harks kinda suck in it in general
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Oct 28, 2021 17:28
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