MLB N/V Playoffs: Suspicious Light. Maybe the Astros?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > MLB N/V Playoffs: Suspicious Light. Maybe the Astros?

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Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

"And now let's see who's warming up in the PETA Arm Barn™ bullpen, sponsored by PETA, please treat animals ethically!"

# ? Oct 28, 2021 23:56

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 12:15

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 00:03

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

can you support the name arm barn but not peta

# ? Oct 29, 2021 00:38

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

bewbies posted:

can you support the name arm barn but not peta

Yes, by using it for something else

# ? Oct 29, 2021 02:04

LonesomeCrowdedWest: May 8, 2008

I don�t get how arm barn is any �better� or less derogatory than bullpen? Like they�re both places you keep animals in? What am I missing

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:22

fast cars loose anus: Mar 2, 2007; Pillbug

The thing you are missing is that PETA is one of those entities that is so stupid it's nearly un-satirizable

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:25

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

They're just being helpful in coming up with a fun new name.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:31

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

arm barn kind of rules

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:38

camoseven: Dec 30, 2005; RODOLPHONE RINGIN'

I got a covid booster today and I've got a real arm barn

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:38

Good Dog: Oct 16, 2008; Who threw this cat at me?; Clapping Larry

Much like PETA, my favorite team euthanizes more of it's pitchers than it should.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 03:44

Mr. Fix It: Oct 26, 2000; 💀ayyy💀

gotta hand it to PETA on this one: arm barn's a banger

# ? Oct 29, 2021 05:39

molestrios: Jan 21, 2020

I hope this at least catches on as slang for a bullpen

# ? Oct 29, 2021 05:55

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

Reliefdom Fiefdom

# ? Oct 29, 2021 06:22

LongTimeFirstTime: Sep 29, 2021

I was gonna say something about ROLAIDS spells relief but then I remembered they used to have a ROLAIDS reliever award...

hm.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 07:53

Rooster Brooster: Mar 30, 2001; Maybe it doesn't really matter anymore.

The Closer Closet

# ? Oct 29, 2021 09:16

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

Dusty's Folly

# ? Oct 29, 2021 13:20

rickiep00h: Aug 16, 2010; BATDANCE

Rooster Brooster posted:

The Closer Closet

"Looks like Josh Hader's coming out of the Closet!" would be some prime lols.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 13:51

No Safe Word: Feb 26, 2005

The main travesty about Atlanta's stadium move is that now 755 Hank Aaron Way is not their stadium's address anymore and that is inexcusable.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 18:03

SilvergunSuperman: Aug 7, 2010

Yeah 1200 Racist Fucks boulevard doesn't have the same ring

# ? Oct 29, 2021 18:11

Kirios: Jan 26, 2010

I'm dreading hearing that awful racist chant full blast for three days in a row.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 18:56

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

didn't the native American advocacy group the braves interact with recently say they were okay with the team name and logo and whatnot, just please stop doing stupid chop?

I might be misremembering

in any case lol they just...keep doing it, like gently caress yall we need this meaningless thing to enjoy sports

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:03

Tatsuta Age: Apr 21, 2005; so good at being in trouble

bewbies posted:

didn't the native American advocacy group the braves interact with recently say they were okay with the team name and logo and whatnot, just please stop doing stupid chop?

I might be misremembering

in any case lol they just...keep doing it, like gently caress yall we need this meaningless thing to enjoy sports

quote:

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, the largest local tribe in the Atlanta region, has a long-standing relationship with the Braves, Principal Chief Richard Sneed said. It once manufactured tourist items such as tomahawks and bows and arrows, which it sold to the Braves to offer at souvenir stands. As revenue from its ownership of a casino pulled the tribe out of poverty, its relationship with the Braves changed. It is now a corporate sponsor.

The Braves declined to make anyone available for comment on the name but emphasized their efforts to connect with Native Americans in the area and honor them with exhibits at Truist Park.

Sneed viewed his tribe�s relationship with the team as �a platform� to tell the story of Cherokee culture. In July, the Braves held Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians Night at Truist Park, where Sneed said tribal elders were treated �like royalty.� This year, the Braves sold T-shirts with a word that translated roughly to �ballplayer� in Cherokee syllabary; the proceeds supported the tribe�s language immersion program.

From the archives: In a remarkable week, the sports world confronts issues long neglected

This week, Sneed said the chop is inoffensive and that focusing on it distracts from the long-standing and complex issues facing Native Americans: extreme poverty, unemployment, educational gaps and substance abuse. Sneed said he respects those in the Native American community who see the chop as problematic but bristles at outsiders who are �offended on our behalf.� The mascot of the local Cherokee high school, Sneed said, is the Braves. He views the name as a respectful symbol of strength and courage.

�If we�re angry about something, you�re going to know it,� Sneed said. �There are so many larger issues that need to be addressed. This is a minor thing.�

the tribe the braves work with closely has said they don't find it offensive and obviously there are way bigger fish to fry to improve native american lives in the US, but lots of other tribes don't like it

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:09

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

it definitely seems at least more abstract than literally having a caricature of a member of a given race, as your mascot and logo, so it would make sense to me if the perceptions of native people were more varied

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:20

kaworu: Jul 23, 2004

Tatsuta Age posted:

the tribe the braves work with closely has said they don't find it offensive and obviously there are way bigger fish to fry to improve native american lives in the US, but lots of other tribes don't like it

Yes, truly shocking that the representative from the one tribe that has had a business relationship with the Atlanta Braves would take such a position!

edit: for instance, there's also this article tackling the same issue and quoting several other Native American representatives:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tribes-push-back-against-mlb-claims-native-americans-approve-tomahawk-n1282516

quote:

Native American groups pushed back Wednesday against Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred's claim that Indigenous communities support the Atlanta Braves' tomahawk chop.

Manfred told reporters at the World Series on Tuesday that Native Americans near Atlanta don't mind the sight of Braves fans' chanting in a faux battle cry during games at Truist Park in Cobb County, north of Atlanta.

"The Braves have done a phenomenal job with the Native American community," Manfred said on the field at Minute Maid Park in Houston. "The Native American community in that region is wholly supportive of the Braves' program, including the chop.

"And for me, that's kind of the end of the story," he continued. "In that market, taking into account the Native American community, it works."

But Jason Salsman, a spokesman for Chief David Hill of the Muscogee Nation, said Manfred can't base his opinion on any one stance from a Native community.

"If you just go out and get a group here or there and say you're good, I don't think that's how Indian Country works," Salsman said. "You need to speak to the whole of Indian Country and make sure that you get a grand consensus. I wouldn't say that they have that."

The ancestral homelands of the Muscogee Nation, before its forced relocation to what is now Oklahoma along the deadly Trail of Tears in the 19th century, are in what is now Georgia. The tribe doesn't support the tomahawk chop.

I think for us, with the tomahawk chop, you're not getting anything really authentic," Salsman said. "You're getting something that's more of a caricature."

Manfred said he consulted with local Cherokees. None of the three federally recognized bands of Cherokees is based in Georgia.

The Cherokee Nation and the United Keetowah Band of Cherokee Indians were forcibly removed to Oklahoma, where they remain. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians remains in nearby North Carolina, and Principal Chief Richard Sneed has said for years that the tribe doesn't support the Braves' cheer.

Crystal Echo Hawk, an enrolled member of the Pawnee Nation of Oklahoma who is president of the Indigenous advocacy group IllumiNative, said: "We can't let this just be a local Native issue. The imagery, chant, red face aren't just impacting locally � it's impacting all Natives."
Cleveland�s MLB team announces new name

Stephanie Fryberg, a professor of psychology at the University of Michigan and a member of the Tulalip Tribes, said the effect of such mascots and gestures is not always immediately obvious."The Commissioner�s comment focuses solely on peoples� attitudes, but ignores the fact that there are decades of research that document the psychological harm associated with Native-themed mascots and related gameday behavior," she said in a statement.

The Washington Football Team changed its racist nickname last year, and Cleveland's baseball team has ditched its long-held moniker for a new brand, the Guardian, beginning next year.

Echo Hawk and others have also pointed out that psychological research has shown for years that the use of Native American imagery and mascots in sports has negative consequences for the mental health of both Native and non-Native children.

Interestingly, they reference Sneed as someone who has disapproved of The Chop for years, even though he's essentially defending it (or making a point of not directly attacking it) in that other article.

I'm pretty shocked at how absurd and half-hearted Manfred's defense of this poo poo it.

kaworu fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 29, 2021

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:23

Dinosaurs!: May 22, 2003

Huh I wonder why they�re so conflicted about �don�t detonate our business partnership while enraging the fanbase who patronizes our casinos�

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:26

pigz: Jul 12, 2004; Nearly as overlooked as Joe Mauer

Tatsuta Age posted:

the tribe the braves work with closely has said they don't find it offensive and obviously there are way bigger fish to fry to improve native american lives in the US, but lots of other tribes don't like it

My issue is not whether it offends one specific tribe in Georgia; It is that the 'chop' and stereotypical iconography that absolutely are problematic.
I don't have a particular problem so much with 'Braves' as a name for a sports team since it's original use is one of honor and not a slur. But, that said the name is used by a billion dollar sports team owned by a multi-billion dollar company. The things the Braves are doing even for this one specific tribe as described in the article are absolutely minor contributions at best and no where near make up for how much they have profited on cultural appropriation.
On top the problematic cultural appropriation there is a ridiculous racist chant and hand motion.

This isn't just a Cherokee issue it's a indigenous people issue in general. These things offend plenty of people and I don't find it surprising that those who aren't have a strong emotional or financial connection to the team.

Honestly I'm waiting for this to become an issue for the networks which seem to have no problem broadcasting 50 thousand people doing a racist chant and hand motion. I don't know what the broadcast people can do about it, but it's going to continue to be a problem nationally no mater what people in GA think.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:50

Tatsuta Age: Apr 21, 2005; so good at being in trouble

word well some dude above asked if that specific tribe had a problem with it so I posted the link showing they didnt

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:54

SilvergunSuperman: Aug 7, 2010

The leader told them to gently caress off with that poo poo in 2019, I wonder what happened.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 19:56

Sab0921: Aug 2, 2004; This for my justices slingin' thangs, rib breakin' kings / Truck, necklace, robe, gavel and things / For the solicitors seein' them dissents spin and grin / That robe with the lace trim that win.

Go Astros!

Not racist! Just cheat sometimes - let's not dig any deeper into this though, I assure you everything else is all good.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 21:00

molestrios: Jan 21, 2020

Sab0921 posted:

Go Astros!

Not racist! Just cheat sometimes - let's not dig any deeper into this though, I assure you everything else is all good.

No no people still whine about Gurriel don't worry

# ? Oct 29, 2021 21:04

Kirios: Jan 26, 2010

SilvergunSuperman posted:

The leader told them to gently caress off with that poo poo in 2019, I wonder what happened.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 21:13

Benjamin Disraeli: Oct 19, 2005; Let's have some fun
This beat is sick
Let's play a Love game!

I kind of wonder if big baby two scoops showing up this weekend might bring the whole chop thing into a much brighter spotlight than the league or, more importantly (since this seems to be the only way any change ever happens in any of the major sports) their sponsors, feel comfortable with. I can totally see him making a point to participate in and draw attention to doing the chop since it's red meat for his racist base.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 21:14

blossommirage: Nov 7, 2012

Benjamin Disraeli posted:

I kind of wonder if big baby two scoops showing up this weekend might bring the whole chop thing into a much brighter spotlight than the league or, more importantly (since this seems to be the only way any change ever happens in any of the major sports) their sponsors, feel comfortable with. I can totally see him making a point to participate in and draw attention to doing the chop since it's red meat for his racist base.

I think baseball might have been a mistake at this point.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 22:06

Hand Knit: Oct 24, 2005; Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

pigz posted:

Honestly I'm waiting for this to become an issue for the networks which seem to have no problem broadcasting 50 thousand people doing a racist chant and hand motion. I don't know what the broadcast people can do about it, but it's going to continue to be a problem nationally no mater what people in GA think.

An interesting aside: in 92, when Toronto were playing Atlanta in the Series, a fan wrote the Jays radio guy Jerry Howarth and just said "hey, this name is kind of racist." And... he just stopped calling Atlanta the 'Braves', and stopped calling Cleveland the 'Indians'. It was so seemless that nobody even noticed until he was asked about it 24 years later.

# ? Oct 29, 2021 22:39

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

pigz posted:

Honestly I'm waiting for this to become an issue for the networks which seem to have no problem broadcasting 50 thousand people doing a racist chant and hand motion. I don't know what the broadcast people can do about it, but it's going to continue to be a problem nationally no mater what people in GA think.

They could stop cutting to the crowd shot when it happens

# ? Oct 29, 2021 22:45

Kevlar v2.0: Dec 25, 2003; =^•⩊•^=

Intruder posted:

They could stop cutting to the crowd shot when it happens

The stadium could also stop playing the drum beat that is specifically used to start the chop

# ? Oct 29, 2021 23:50

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

https://twitter.com/oldhossradbourn/status/1454181000729272328?s=21

# ? Oct 29, 2021 23:57

Popete: Oct 6, 2009; This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs; Grimey Drawer

Astros offense disappears on the road...

I'm not saying they're back on the cans but the Astros are back on the cans.

# ? Oct 30, 2021 04:49

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Popete posted:

Astros offense disappears on the road...

I'm not saying they're back on the cans but the Astros are back on the cans.

if you were to ask me they're doing cans

# ? Oct 30, 2021 04:52

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 12:15

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

https://twitter.com/emmabaccellieri/status/1454295301431480320?s=20

would be cool if Old Man Greinke's got another playoff gem in him

# ? Oct 30, 2021 04:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > MLB N/V Playoffs: Suspicious Light. Maybe the Astros?

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