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LionArcher posted:Indie overhyped the film and Last Duel the straight mans catnip "lets show a rape onscreen three times film?" It's like a single sentence version of film bro. you definitely did not see the last duel
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Oct 29, 2021 04:53
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 07:16 |
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My friend sent me this and I have no idea where he got it but um...quote:
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Oct 29, 2021 05:02
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I only worship one god and his name is Shai-Hulud
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Oct 29, 2021 05:09
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D-Pad posted:My friend sent me this and I have no idea where he got it but um... Your friend owns and now he’s my friend not yours I called dibs.
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Oct 29, 2021 05:15
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We're like peas in a pod, the three of us, let's face it. You want somebody out of the house, I want to get somebody out of your house. Come on- look! You've been to Saturn. Hey, I've been to Saturn! Whoa! Sandworms- you hate em, right? I hate em myself!
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Oct 29, 2021 05:15
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Cognac McCarthy posted:Looking forward to 2UNC, and if it does really well, DU3C
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Oct 29, 2021 06:22
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ALFbrot posted:can we take the movie back, un-release it, and somehow strike Dune knowledge from the brains of most people [William Hurt]Here we need desert power... ... Desert POWER.[/William Hurt]
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Oct 29, 2021 06:31
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Halloween Jack posted:DUNCUT GEMS Dunerefined Spice
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Oct 29, 2021 06:32
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Steve Yun posted:I only worship one god and his name is Shai-Hulud usul caught himself a big one! 
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Oct 29, 2021 06:45
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Chani better get naked like in the goddamn 2000 miniseries also they better not cut out the spice orgy
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Oct 29, 2021 06:51
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Re: mentats Book Thufir ain't a genius, he's just technocrat. Hence his lack of imagination - the plan to make Feyd popular that he sells the baron on is the same one he and Leto were gonna do with Paul Dr. Fishopolis posted:you definitely did not see the last duel I love how salty this thread is! Like I dunno what neuoromancer even is but this: Dracula Factory posted:Hey maybe I like it for reasons you don't understand? It's art? Grow up.  I enjoyed Dunc . . . but apparently not enough to keep from becoming a racist and/or rapist, lol Grandpa Palpatine posted:Chani better get naked like in the goddamn 2000 miniseries It's pg 13 dude, chill And not the edgy pg 13, the YA pg 13
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Oct 29, 2021 08:37
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Hodgepodge posted:e: Points for the post/user name combo, though. But really, it's okay if you know literally nothing about Dune, but "deconstructing the noble savage" is literally just one of the reason Herbert wrote the book, and you should probably not pretend you aren't talking to a thread full of Dune nerds right now. The problem with this line of reasoning is that it makes it functionally impossible to criticize the writing of the characters of the book. If the hyper-competent character does something competent and I believe it, then that's what it means. If I don't believe it then it was supposed to mean the opposite. It's an unfalsifiable argument. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 08:58
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Nice
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Oct 29, 2021 09:09
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The problem is that the explanation is an obvious cop out that makes it impossible to criticize the writing of the book in any way. The hyper-competent characters are hyper-competent, except when you don't buy it; then they're meant to have been idiots all along. Heads I win, tails you lose. That's why you argue using evidence from the entire text, a thing we read repeatedly for fun, to contextualize it. Information from Herbert's life and social context is also helpful. It's true, if there's something in the film or book that contradicts the reading, that it's worth bringing up. Even if it doesn't outright contradict it, any analysis of a text is going to be a generalization that can be complicated by some piece that doesn't quite fit. That can be the beginning of a "better" (more complete, convincing, and/or satisfying) reading.
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Oct 29, 2021 09:09
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I saw it yesterday and loved it, but I think by far the weakest element of the movie -- leaving aside the fact that it's obviously a Part One that can't stand on its own -- is the sword fighting. I think there are two parts to this. First, the sword fights themselves just aren't that great, as already noted. The choreography is pretty uninspired, and in a movie that's full of otherwise awe-inspiring visuals that weakness is even more glaring. Second, while to book readers I think it improved the movie not to include some hamfisted exposition about why in the far future people are still fighting with knives, to those unfamiliar with the universe the fact that the Harkonnens can carpet bomb Arrakeen and attempt to blast a thopter out of the sky with a laser but still feel the need to drop a bunch of soldiers to fight in hand to hand combat must be pretty baffling. On that note, Paul's future vision of the Fremen-Sardaukar fight was by far the worst part of the film visually, I think. The outfits and the setup just looked cheap and the CGI of Paul opening his helmet to reveal his face looked terrible (I'm surprised they're actually including it in trailers, frankly).
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Oct 29, 2021 09:25
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MeinPanzer posted:to those unfamiliar with the universe the fact that the Harkonnens can carpet bomb Arrakeen and attempt to blast a thopter out of the sky with a laser but still feel the need to drop a bunch of soldiers to fight in hand to hand combat must be pretty baffling. Why would that be baffling? We can carpet bomb people now yet still send actual soldiers to 'war.'
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Oct 29, 2021 10:09
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Hodgepodge posted:That's why you argue using evidence from the entire text, a thing we read repeatedly for fun, to contextualize it.
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Oct 29, 2021 10:11
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I think you guys overestimate how strongly people feel about the mechanical logic of action sequences in movies.
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Oct 29, 2021 10:14
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Pedro De Heredia posted:You didn't do that. Fair, but a click on the ? on this post will allow you to read me nerd out about this subject in far too much detail. If you still aren't satisfied I'd be glad to be nerdy more about it. e: You will notice I also revise my reading a hell of a lot over time, in part due to people pointing out things I hadn't accounted for.
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Oct 29, 2021 10:14
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Why would that be baffling? We can carpet bomb people now yet still send actual soldiers to 'war.' Because they use a bunch of projectile weapons but then send in troops to run at people with knives out in the open. You don't understand why to an average viewer with no outside knowledge of the Dune universe that would be confusing? Especially since we've already just seen in the prior scene with Leto that projectile weapons of a kind do work against people with shields.. Before you dive into an explanation, yes I understand why the dart guns wouldn't work in combat, how combat with blade weapons is ritualized, etc., but the movie doesn't do a good job of explaining that to viewers.
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Oct 29, 2021 10:15
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Oct 29, 2021 10:48
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I think the shields' strange behavior generally justifies the quirks of large-scale combat tactics in this movie. They clearly make most projectiles useless, and while their behavior during melee combat feels a bit inconsistent, I think that actually supports the idea that the audience only partly understands the shields. I definitely stand by my pre-release concerns that the martial arts would be hard to capture. imo when people talk about Dune being unfilmable, they often gloss over the fact that on top of all of its psychedelic sci-fi weirdness it should be a completely legitimate martial arts action movie, and it's kind of impossible to expect that of this kind of production. Ultimately I was surprised how much I liked it. Most of the tweaks were not just ok but really effective ways to focus the plot (especially the Jamis vision stuff, I had to look up that dude because I realized I loved him in Too Old to Die Young), but I was pretty ok with the things that I found to be straight-up compromises. The martial arts stuff is kind of undeniably a bit watered down imo, but I'm ok with the result. And I may be weird but the Baron is the other compromise from my point of view. Say what you will about his portrayal in the book being problematic, but he's fun. The book baron is literally the evilest dude ever to exist but he has huge George Costanza energy at the same time and it really adds an amazing counterpoint to the overall thread of questioning the "serious hero" narrative. I think you could absolutely attempt to craft a Vladimir Harkonnen for this movie who is not homophobic but still carries the same kind of absurd paranoid scheming villain energy in fun and wacky ways, but it feels like they just gave up on it. He was still cool as kind of a weird Northern European mob boss, and I understand the motivations to simplify his character, but it was probably the thing I missed the most.
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Oct 29, 2021 11:01
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Yeah they really changed the baron for the film. The book Baron Harkonnen loves his job!
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Oct 29, 2021 12:26
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Blood Boils posted:Re: mentats I like how mentats in the book are like 90% just normal dudes, but then all the other special types of people all are weirdo mutants of some kind so they had to go back and invent "twisted mentats" so they could have them be a monster class too.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:27
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Martman posted:Ultimately I was surprised how much I liked it. Most of the tweaks were not just ok but really effective ways to focus the plot (especially the Jamis vision stuff, I had to look up that dude because I realized I loved him in Too Old to Die Young), but I was pretty ok with the things that I found to be straight-up compromises. The martial arts stuff is kind of undeniably a bit watered down imo, but I'm ok with the result. And I may be weird but the Baron is the other compromise from my point of view. Say what you will about his portrayal in the book being problematic, but he's fun. The book baron is literally the evilest dude ever to exist but he has huge George Costanza energy at the same time and it really adds an amazing counterpoint to the overall thread of questioning the "serious hero" narrative. I think you could absolutely attempt to craft a Vladimir Harkonnen for this movie who is not homophobic but still carries the same kind of absurd paranoid scheming villain energy in fun and wacky ways, but it feels like they just gave up on it. He was still cool as kind of a weird Northern European mob boss, and I understand the motivations to simplify his character, but it was probably the thing I missed the most. have you seen the miniseries? it feels like they had the adaptation of the baron you're picturing. this isn't a slight, he's by far the best part of it.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:49
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I hope we get to see more of the baron and the harkonnens in the next installment. They weren't featured much
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Oct 29, 2021 12:52
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spicy meringue lmao
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Oct 29, 2021 12:57
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D-Pad posted:My friend sent me this and I have no idea where he got it but um... Art
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Oct 29, 2021 13:17
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Hodgepodge posted:In the books, the spice is needed specifically because FTL folds space and without precognition it's impossible to plan a route through that space that won't collide with something. Presumably because you have to travel through the intervening space, just in a single instant with no time to react. Not impossible, just dangerous.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:20
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MeinPanzer posted:Because they use a bunch of projectile weapons but then send in troops to run at people with knives out in the open. You don't understand why to an average viewer with no outside knowledge of the Dune universe that would be confusing? Especially since we've already just seen in the prior scene with Leto that projectile weapons of a kind do work against people with shields.. Fortunately we've had 15 years of superhero punch fights onscreen to completely immunize the American moviegoer against the idea of ranged combat.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:35
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Blood Boils posted:Re: mentats The accusation that OP hadn't seen The Last Duel isn't salt, it's because he said the rape is depicted three times when it's only depicted in the accounts of the attacker and victim. In the first version Jean De Carrouges, the husband, is away at the time and he, and the audience following along with him, only learn of the event after the fact. So it seems like OP maybe just saw the trailer and vaguely knows there's a Rashomon framework but hasn't actually seen it.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:38
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Blood Boils posted:Re: mentats He's a character widely seen in-universe as an absolutely terrifying Master of Assassins, not just some glorified clerk at the top of a bureaucracy. LIke even the bad guys say in effect, "What the gently caress do we even do about this guy?" The book does a lot of having other people tell us how great and scary Hawat is while having him eat poo poo when it counts though. I'd call this bad writing but uh Dune is nothing but super awesome cool dudes just eating poo poo over and over so it's really a running theme. Blood Boils posted:I love how salty this thread is! I mean, flippant shitposting in what's supposed to be at least a somewhat serious/sincere film discussion subform is going to aggravate people, yes.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:55
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MeinPanzer posted:Because they use a bunch of projectile weapons but then send in troops to run at people with knives out in the open. You don't understand why to an average viewer with no outside knowledge of the Dune universe that would be confusing? Especially since we've already just seen in the prior scene with Leto that projectile weapons of a kind do work against people with shields.. Yeah I was watching with some friends and none of us knew anything about Dune so we had to pause the movie for ten minutes to figure out why they didn't use guns. Sorry just kidding. No one thought about it or cared. No one was confused about why they were using knives and spears and stuff. It's sci fi. People use weird and impractical weapons all the time in sci fi.
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Oct 29, 2021 13:55
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Halloween Jack posted:DUNCUT GEMS Can you imagine the mayhem if A24 somehow got ahold of this franchise instead of WB?
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Oct 29, 2021 14:14
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There is something endearing about the post-future depicted in franchises like Dune or LoGH, where technology has gotten so advanced it has circled back around to beating each other to death with pointy sticks.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:24
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sean10mm posted:He's a character widely seen in-universe as an absolutely terrifying Master of Assassins, not just some glorified clerk at the top of a bureaucracy. LIke even the bad guys say in effect, "What the gently caress do we even do about this guy?" He's probably deadly as gently caress when it comes to kanly and warfare against enemies, but he's used to a code of honour where you have the luxury to chose to value human life because your power in unconstrained by anything but your peers and yourself. The Fremen value the lives of injured Fremen and allies, but the desert does not so they have to be brutally pragmatic. If Thufir thought like a Fremen in the context of imperial politics, he'd be considered "twisted" like de Vries quote:I mean, flippant shitposting in what's supposed to be at least a somewhat serious/sincere film discussion subform is going to aggravate people, yes. I mean, flippant shitposting is fine if it's just not a mask for wanting to drop a hot take and not defend it or admit that it's just a hot take.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:29
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Yeah I was watching with some friends and none of us knew anything about Dune so we had to pause the movie for ten minutes to figure out why they didn't use guns. Sorry just kidding. No one thought about it or cared. No one was confused about why they were using knives and spears and stuff. It's sci fi. People use weird and impractical weapons all the time in sci fi. Two of my friends who had no exposure to Dune before commented on it independently after seeing the movie, and I myself despite having read the books years ago and seen the Lynch movie thought it was kind of jarring, so it's not some random complaint. Thanks for your input though cool irreverent movie guy. I loved the movie, but considering how prominent knife fighting is in it and how central it is to the plot at different points, it would have been useful to include just a bit more exposition on why they're used so much to make the thought processes of the characters a bit more logical. Like all it would have taken is a couple of lines in Paul's training scene with Gurney to explain that, hey, sword fighting is really important in this universe for specific reasons, and not just because it looks cool.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:23
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Hodgepodge posted:If Thufir thought like a Fremen in the context of imperial politics, he'd be considered "twisted" like de Vries I like that way of looking at it! The way Herbert treats the Fremen is really interesting, they're set up as noble savages who are better at war because they're hard people from a hard place, which is true to a point... but they become less and less like any kind of savages at all as the story goes along. They aren't actually just a smattering of tribes, but a large population They have an entire industrial and technological base that's hidden They've been quietly buying off the spacing guild to hide what they're doing They're pursuing an incredibly difficult and technically demanding plan that will take generations to pull off to terraform the entire loving planet Like they have the most "civilized" goals of anyone in the known universe. Even the Atreides are like "let's be less dickish within the traditional framework of empire" while the Fremen are like "Let's make incredible sacrifices so our children's children's children can live in a real, tangible paradise world." They follow Paul because he's a shortcut to that goal, and he ultimately kind of gives it to them, but only in the most hosed up way imaginable.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:38
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I liked this movie when I saw it, but I didn’t love it. It was ok. Now that it’s had a few days to settle and process, I loving love it. It’s kind of amazing that it both got made in the first place and that the public seems to be ravenous for it. An insane course of events.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:43
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Somebody should keep a tally of the friend anecdotes so we can tell who wins
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Oct 29, 2021 15:54
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