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My friends who haven't read the book liked the movie, and also they said I was very handsome and charming
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Oct 29, 2021 16:05
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sean10mm posted:He's a character widely seen in-universe as an absolutely terrifying Master of Assassins, not just some glorified clerk at the top of a bureaucracy. LIke even the bad guys say in effect, "What the gently caress do we even do about this guy?" Yeah so are all the mentats. The baron pretty easily gets him on board by just saying "it was Jessica, lol". I would say that dune is full of fun characters Thufir being one of them - but most of them are bad people and fairly uncool. And I mean the accusations and strawmanning of peeps who didn't feel the exact same way about a scif/fantasy movie. It's not trolling to sincerely disagree with someone else! But it's ok, nerd blockbusters often cause these sort of reactions and it's endlessly entertaining - I just hope no one gets too upset or has a bad time.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:17
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MeinPanzer posted:Two of my friends who had no exposure to Dune before commented on it independently after seeing the movie, and I myself despite having read the books years ago and seen the Lynch movie thought it was kind of jarring, so it's not some random complaint. Thanks for your input though cool irreverent movie guy. I’m guessing that this scene is sitting on the editing room floor. It feels like a lot of exposition and world building was cut, especially from the first half of the film. Things seem much more coherent after the sand worm attack on the harvester, but the first two acts feel like 45 minutes is missing...
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Oct 29, 2021 16:43
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Blood Boils posted:The baron pretty easily gets him on board by just saying "it was Jessica, lol" Thufir's not "on board" he's explicitly out to ratfuck the Baron the whole time he's pretending to be working for him.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:01
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Can someone post the gom jabbar porn hub meme? Now that the movie is out it's relevant to my chat group.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:03
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:you definitely did not see the last duel Lion archer has repeatedly claimed to only be stupid on purpose, as a bit. Despite these protestations, evidence is in short supply
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Oct 29, 2021 17:23
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e: lmao not worth it
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Oct 29, 2021 17:38
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sean10mm posted:Thufir's not "on board" he's explicitly out to ratfuck the Baron the whole time he's pretending to be working for him. Ratfuck him with Feyd, yes. He hates the harkonens and the emperor obviously, but they are the only tools he has to work with. Regardless of motivation, he chooses to keep mentating for them, he could have killed himself at any time if he was more honourable.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:55
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Blood Boils posted:Ratfuck him with Feyd, yes. He hates the harkonens and the emperor obviously, but they are the only tools he has to work with. Regardless of motivation, he chooses to keep mentating for them, he could have killed himself at any time if he was more honourable. Did we read the same book? Hawat had no idea that Paul was the Muad'Dib that he was helping the harkonnen fight, and when he found out he immediately killed himself rather than harm Paul.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:59
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there is a weird amount of criticism itt that's basically "i'm the ultimate dune fan and i saw it with a non-dune fan and they were completely lost, the film should have had more wikipedia style explanations of shields" but speaking as someone with zero dune knowledge outside of seeing the lynch movie and being so bored i could only remember the hand fire scene and a floating gay man this movie was very easy to follow if you pay attention to dialogue i watched it with another non-dune fan who felt the same way, she was only mildly confused by them not showing the emperor (and then assumed harkonnen was the emperor for like five minutes)
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Oct 29, 2021 18:20
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*me watching a new hope* what the hell? they're just gonna show a crazy laser sword without explaining that khyber crystals are mined from the caves of dantooine as part of a special jedi ritual to....
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Oct 29, 2021 18:23
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MeinPanzer posted:Two of my friends who had no exposure to Dune before commented on it independently after seeing the movie, and I myself despite having read the books years ago and seen the Lynch movie thought it was kind of jarring, so it's not some random complaint. Thanks for your input though cool irreverent movie guy. The movie did this though. The scene where Paul trains with Gurney is specifically there to explain why we swordfight in this setting: Paul turns on his shield, taps his sword against it and it goes blue and repels the sword, then he taps it slowly and it goes red and lets the sword through. This is followed by an extremely clunky line of exposition: "the slow blade penetrates the shield". Nobody says "you can't shoot someone with an assault rifle because the bullet would just bounce off the shield" but they don't need to because we've already established that shields repel fast-moving things. The scene also has Gurney get mad at Paul and say "you fight when you have to no matter what mood you're in!" and "these Harkonnens are unbelievably hardcore!" to make it clear that the swordfighting isn't just some weird ceremonial thing, it's a practical skill that Paul needs to master
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Oct 29, 2021 19:01
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Josh Brolin should start a death metal band cause his delivery on that line was so loving guttural - with some more practice he could do it longer. "BRUUUUUATAL!!" - I wonder if they added some more bass in post to it.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:14
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Is there a list of things DUNC took from Lynch that isn't in the book?
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Oct 29, 2021 19:37
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Am I the only one who heard gurneys "the slow blade penetrates the shield" line of exposition delivered as a common phrase, like "knight takes pawn" or "keep your hands up"? I thought he had a kind of half taunting, half disappointed tone, like "c'mon, son", which matched his general frustration/fear in the scene.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:46
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The only problem with that line reading was that no matter how brutal they were, it would end up less brutal than what it put into your imagination.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m2hYQJ8OUc
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Oct 29, 2021 19:49
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Jack B Nimble posted:Am I the only one who heard gurneys "the slow blade penetrates the shield" line of exposition delivered as a common phrase, like "knight takes pawn" or "keep your hands up"? I thought he had a kind of half taunting, half disappointed tone, like "c'mon, son", which matched his general frustration/fear in the scene. Nah, that’s a pretty natural interpretation. Simple present in English is pretty much always habitual (ignoring statal verbs) so the only read is something like, “Generally, slow knives go through shields” i.e. it’s advice and possibly a common one, like “slow and steady wins the race” to give a super apples-to-apples phrase for comparison.
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Oct 29, 2021 19:56
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I heard it as a drill-instructror "Paul you still suck get your poo poo in order" line. R. Lee Ermey would have been a perfect Gurney, but Josh Brolin certainly isn't bad
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Oct 29, 2021 20:05
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Jack B Nimble posted:Am I the only one who heard gurneys "the slow blade penetrates the shield" line of exposition delivered as a common phrase, like "knight takes pawn" or "keep your hands up"? I thought he had a kind of half taunting, half disappointed tone, like "c'mon, son", which matched his general frustration/fear in the scene. before sparing paul also turns on his shield, takes his own knife and hits it against the blue shield then moves it again real slow and then looks at the camera like "huh, that is how that works" even though he must have used it a trillion times before.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:11
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"make sure the shield is functioning before engaging in full strength sparring" seems like a pretty logical SOP if you ask me
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Oct 29, 2021 20:13
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Admiral Bosch posted:"make sure the shield is functioning before engaging in full strength sparring" seems like a pretty logical SOP if you ask me  exposition is impossibly difficult in fiction without using the "as you know" or "Aren't you Willie Scott, the famous American female vocalist?" bits and Dune does a good job with it
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Oct 29, 2021 20:15
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The bladed weapons aspect did not trip me up at all as a non-book-reader. With this whole medieval-style feudal system, I maybe took it as an honourable way of battling or something. There seemed to be so much pomp and ceremony around everything, it felt natural that it carried over to combat.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:55
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Wolfsheim posted:*me watching a new hope* This is why movies are almost an hour longer than 20-30 years ago, but somehow manage to have half of the characterization and plot...
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Oct 29, 2021 20:56
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Did we read the same book? Hawat had no idea that Paul was the Muad'Dib that he was helping the harkonnen fight, and when he found out he immediately killed himself rather than harm Paul. Smugly being slightly wrong seems to be their gimmick today.
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Oct 29, 2021 20:59
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The thing about explaining things is that explaining things sucks turgid rear end. Star Wars is better without an extended universe that explains the most inconsequential details, like the dice on the Millenium Falcon. Star Trek was better when it didn't explain the Borg. Reader imagination is always, always better than what the creator can come up with, but explanations are profitable, so here he are. This is me with an original thought that nobody has ever come up with before. Surely.
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Oct 29, 2021 21:01
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Eason the Fifth posted:The thing about explaining things is that explaining things sucks turgid rear end. Star Wars is better without an extended universe that explains the most inconsequential details, like the dice on the Millenium Falcon. Star Trek was better when it didn't explain the Borg. Reader imagination is always, always better than what the creator can come up with, but explanations are profitable, so here he are. Man the Borg were so loving chilling when they were just this implacable lurking menace that was gonna turn up and gently caress humanity *sometime*
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Oct 29, 2021 21:05
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Failed Imagineer posted:Man the Borg were so loving chilling when they were just this implacable lurking menace that was gonna turn up and gently caress humanity *sometime* Yeah. When they were an implacable force of nature, they went beyond terrifying and into horrifying. I remember watching Q Who part one of Best of Both Worlds as a wee lad and being petrified by the Borg. Late TNG and Voyager turned them into a joke. Implication is genius. Explanation is garbage.
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Oct 29, 2021 21:12
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Eason the Fifth posted:Reader imagination is always, always better than what the creator can come up with, but explanations are profitable, so here he are. The exception is what that watermelon was for in Buckaroo Banzai. W.D. Richter, director posted:
The joke is that it's then impossible to get into the watermelon.
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Oct 29, 2021 21:35
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This thread is getting boring where is smg
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Oct 29, 2021 21:37
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He's looking for the worst take that's still defensible with Zizek quotes.
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Oct 29, 2021 21:44
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Oh my God I didn't notice the metaphor where Baron Harkonnen is literally wallowing in a tub of oil after he conquers space Arabia.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:41
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Eason the Fifth posted:The thing about explaining things is that explaining things sucks turgid rear end. you're right about this. the average viewer can just accept that in the movie combat is stylised in this way with swords etc. it's common in sci-fi / fantasy for something to be adopted that doesn't on the face of it make sense in our real world today. and it's done that way in the movie for the spectacle. the viewer knows already that diegetically there is some justification that exists for why it works this way, without needing to be told all of what that reason is. labouring the explanation doesn't always add anything to the viewer's experience, it can just drag the pace of the story down into a bog of "who cares" if it's not something that otherwise matters for the meat of the story. I think with the minimal bits of dialogue and demonstration Dune does include it did just enough to introduce the idea that sword fights are normal and guns are unusual. you were told before the main combat that it'd be sword fighting, so that didn't come out of left field when the invasion happened. I will complain however that it's a bit different to how I've imagined it reading the novel. I had fast impacts bouncing off shields, not getting stopped on them. so slow-stun dart guns' projectiles would slow down before impact, not get stuck in the shield and push through. I think that might have made more sense for the bombs dropping onto the Arakeen space port / barracks - you would see how they were useless against shielded targets before those were dropped.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:59
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Did we read the same book? Hawat had no idea that Paul was the Muad'Dib that he was helping the harkonnen fight, and when he found out he immediately killed himself rather than harm Paul. Yes? I'm talking about how he reacted to his capture by the harkonens. Like Yueh, he chose attempted revenge over honourable death. It's clear the baron knows that everyone except maybe Piter wants him dead - but he stays a couple steps ahead of his heirs/rivals/underlyings by playing them off each other. sean10mm posted:Smugly being slightly wrong seems to be their gimmick today. 
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Oct 29, 2021 23:04
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Blood Boils posted:Yes? I'm talking about how he reacted to his capture by the harkonens. Like Yueh, he chose attempted revenge over honourable death. It's clear the baron knows that everyone except maybe Piter wants him dead - but he stays a couple steps ahead of his heirs/rivals/underlyings by playing them off each other. Nothing at all like Yueh. As far as Thufir knew, the royal bloodline of House Atreides was wiped out. He didn't owe the Fremen anything, as far as he was concerned he wasn't betraying anyone except the Harkonnen.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:11
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Horizon Burning posted:have you seen the miniseries? it feels like they had the adaptation of the baron you're picturing. this isn't a slight, he's by far the best part of it. I remembered, I loved the part where Paul and Jessica are running from the sandworm. We already know Jessica is pregnant at that point, but Paul is the one who stumbles... and Jessica just straight up runs ahead without even considering stopping to help him. Can't remember if that was in the book, but it worked as a great gag on tired movie cliches. Martman fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 23:23
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Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable?
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Oct 29, 2021 23:29
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Randalor posted:Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable? it really is that bad
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Oct 29, 2021 23:33
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Randalor posted:Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable? I've read a fair amount of Star Wars EU stuff and the Dune BH/JKA books are unreadably bad.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:44
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https://twitter.com/andylevy/status/1453919175169150986?t=phYTZmpj8u82DS2lNHTX-Q&s=19
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Oct 29, 2021 23:57
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