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Randalor posted:Honest question: is Brian's Dune stuff actually that bad, or is it just glorified fanfiction that ignores stuff from the original novels, but is at least readable? There is a scene involving tleilaxu farts.
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Oct 30, 2021 09:13
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So it's Har-ke-nen, not Har-ko-nen, and Benny Gesserit and not Bean Gesserit? It was wise not to have the Baron as a depraved homosexual. There's no need to have shorthand for villainy with a character who is already a villain. I find it hard to believe Jessica could have a kid after this experience. All that stress and the 'thopter crash would have turned the foetus into a fine paste. Since Paul makes Arrakis his home then he'd better brown like a motherfucker by the next movie. The only redundant part is the glimpse of Chani over and over again. It's good to have CGI that evokes all the cool poo poo you'd see on a book-cover or concept-art. Shang-Chi was so loving wretched by the end that it sapped my will to enjoy anything by comparison. We didn't see any worms cough up any spice yet.
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Oct 30, 2021 09:16
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How were the Harkonnens going to cover up the fact that the Emperor orchestrated the whole thing to eliminate the Atreides? There were Sardukar on Arrakis.
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Oct 30, 2021 10:54
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Yeah? Prove it.
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Oct 30, 2021 10:56
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Kurzon posted:How were the Harkonnens going to cover up the fact that the Emperor orchestrated the whole thing to eliminate the Atreides? There were Sardukar on Arrakis. In the book, they're Sardaukar in Harkonnen uniform. In the film I guess it's just leave no survivors and then if there's any rumours just claim FAKE NEWS
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Oct 30, 2021 10:57
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In the movie they say that there are no satellites orbiting arakis so no one could prove imperial involvement.
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Oct 30, 2021 11:08
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Yeah there are no satellites and after the fighting in the city dies down there is a very gratuitous carpet bombing of the city that I think we all took as an indication that everyone is getting murdered.
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Oct 30, 2021 11:32
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Inspector Gesicht posted:So it's Har-ke-nen, not Har-ko-nen, and Benny Gesserit and not Bean Gesserit? Bene I always pronounced as Benny because it is Arabic for “sons of” (and I’m guessing Hebrew too?) and I assumed it was one of many Arabic words My wife’s complaint about chani was she actually looks like a popular actress in a movie where the casting seemed very good otherwise. Especially with how good the fremen are otherwise (I’m still mad at Stilgar being pasty waterfat drunk uncle in the miniseries, Bardem is the stilgar I always pictured)
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Oct 30, 2021 11:33
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Strom Cuzewon posted:There is a scene involving tleilaxu farts. frank's notes were extensive, you ses.
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Oct 30, 2021 11:34
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For what it’s worth I have always pictured chani as 
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Oct 30, 2021 11:35
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Her eyes aren't even blue, epic fail
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Oct 30, 2021 11:39
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Bene I always pronounced as Benny because it is Arabic for “sons of” (and I’m guessing Hebrew too?) and I assumed it was one of many Arabic words "Bene" also being Latin for "good/well", as in N.B. "Nota Bene".
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Oct 30, 2021 11:56
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The Hebrew translation turned the Bene Gesserit into "Bnot Hagishrit", which translates to "Daughters of the bridge" (or maybe Daughters of the Link), the translator kind of went overboard with some linguistic similarities and made some explicit connections where Herbert only had some implicit ones. Kwizats Haderach is translated as Kfizat Haderech, which is actually a Jewish idiom meaning someone who can skip over a portion of the road/way, generally in a spiritual or an intellectual metaphorical sense, which is probably where Herbert took the phrase from and also why hebrew speakers tend to see the Bene Gesserit as being connected to Jewish Mysticism.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:10
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Xiahou Dun posted:Did you just actually say that she was asking for it. It is very silly to try and shame someone for accurately describing a terrible scene in a terrible book, on the grounds that its terrible. Focus on the terrible authors.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:14
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Inspector Gesicht posted:We didn't see any worms cough up any spice yet.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:26
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https://screenrant.com/denis-villen...Al7-N_gUI11o-xk when you are terminally marvelbrained
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Oct 30, 2021 12:31
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Re-watched a couple of scenes and while I really like the movie and sound design, I think the soundtrack is pretty overdone in parts. It feels like the dramatic wails happen for everything, like it's trying to get you invested in something you already are.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:44
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Admiral Bosch posted:https://screenrant.com/denis-villen...Al7-N_gUI11o-xk I read elsewhere that a lot of these clickbait sites will come up with the article concept and then dish them out to the writers. Which makes a lot of sense to me,because dear God nobody could *want* to write something so staggeringly inane.
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Oct 30, 2021 12:56
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The Hebrew translation turned the Bene Gesserit into "Bnot Hagishrit", which translates to "Daughters of the bridge" (or maybe Daughters of the Link), the translator kind of went overboard with some linguistic similarities and made some explicit connections where Herbert only had some implicit ones. Kwizats Haderach is translated as Kfizat Haderech, which is actually a Jewish idiom meaning someone who can skip over a portion of the road/way, generally in a spiritual or an intellectual metaphorical sense, which is probably where Herbert took the phrase from and also why hebrew speakers tend to see the Bene Gesserit as being connected to Jewish Mysticism. That makes a load of sense actually. I think they may have even made an actual textual link between Judaism and Bene Gesserit “ripping them off” but I can’t remember if that was in the dune books we shall not name. Looks like Frank himself talked a bit about it but maybe not in the books themselves https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Judaism I know Arabic tribes being “bene XXX” was almost always seen as something from either hebrew or another Semitic language they shared but being a 14 year old Arab Muslim reading dune (in English) in the Middle East at the time I definitely picked up on the Arabic/Islamic stuff the quickest
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Oct 30, 2021 13:04
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Also stuff like the spice trances make the fremen seem a lot more Sufi than anything else so I think Herbert just loved when Abrahamic religions got weird
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Oct 30, 2021 13:06
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Frank Herbert was interested in all religions, not just the Abrahamaic ones - the Fremen are descended from the Zensunni Wanderers, and Frank was a friend of Alan Watts, who might've been responsible for Franks convertion to Zen Buddhism.
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Oct 30, 2021 13:24
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There was a lot of ambient fascination with Sufi mysticism at the time in the West as well, which likely influenced Herbert. Nowadays that's completely absent now, but the the Zen Buddhism stuff remains around.
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Oct 30, 2021 13:28
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:That makes a load of sense actually. I think they may have even made an actual textual link between Judaism and Bene Gesserit “ripping them off” but I can’t remember if that was in the dune books we shall not name. Looks like Frank himself talked a bit about it but maybe not in the books themselves Its in one of Frank's books, specifically Chapterhouse. In the future the Jews have morphed into a secret society as a defense against pogroms (specifically calling it 'Secret Israel'). The Bene Gesserit knew about this and combined several traditions of this order with the Jesuit tradition to shape their own order. They are tenuous allies with these secret Jewish sects and have a 'quid pro quo' relationship with them. In the book this means the Jews sheltering the Bene Gesserit sisters from the Honored Matres, and the purge of the Bene Gesserit by the Honored Matres is identified as a pogrom by the Jews
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Oct 30, 2021 13:56
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No lasguns in combat. Just in pre-combat raves.
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Oct 30, 2021 14:03
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Failed Imagineer posted:In the book, they're Sardaukar in Harkonnen uniform. In the film I guess it's just leave no survivors and then if there's any rumours just claim FAKE NEWS
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Oct 30, 2021 15:50
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The Dune miniseries that came out in 2000 will be shorter than these two movies. even the 4.9 hour directors cut. That's crazy!
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Oct 30, 2021 15:51
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Shouldn't those stillsuits be colored white instead of black so as not to absorb sunlight? In the Dune miniseries, they had a light color.
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Oct 30, 2021 16:34
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Kurzon posted:Shouldn't those stillsuits be colored white instead of black so as not to absorb sunlight? In the Dune miniseries, they had a light color. Well they mostly move around at night, and they have wraps and stuff over their stillsuits, so it's whatever. Guess they prioritize ninja stealth over daytime temp
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Oct 30, 2021 16:46
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Kurzon posted:Shouldn't those stillsuits be colored white instead of black so as not to absorb sunlight? In the Dune miniseries, they had a light color. They move around at night and black objects also dissipate heat faster than lighter colored ones 
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Oct 30, 2021 16:59
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The book describes one as "pale glistening gray", but doesn't go into much detail otherwise.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:02
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Kurzon posted:Shouldn't those stillsuits be colored white instead of black so as not to absorb sunlight? In the Dune miniseries, they had a light color. When you're wearing a loose robe the color doesn't matter. Air is such a poor heat conductor that the robe's color is irrelevant as long as there's air between the outer and inner garment. As long as it's out of direct solar radiation the color of the inner garment also doesn't matter.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:13
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Inspector Gesicht posted:So it's Har-ke-nen, not Har-ko-nen Herbert used the phone book to find the name. He based it on the Finnish name Härkönen. The pronunciation in the film is much closer to the original Finnish.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:14
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LampkinsMateSteve posted:Herbert used the phone book to find the name.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:19
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Tirranek posted:Re-watched a couple of scenes and while I really like the movie and sound design, I think the soundtrack is pretty overdone in parts. It feels like the dramatic wails happen for everything, like it's trying to get you invested in something you already are. That’s generally the sign of the score being tampered with to fit what was made in the editing room... I could be wrong, but the score felt abridged, like the plot of the film.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:24
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Book question, I'm reading Children right now but it's been a while since I read Dune/Messiah so I'm hazy on a few background details: What exactly was/is the Bene Gesserits' plan for Jessica's child and the Atreides bloodline? They wanted Jessica to have a daughter so they could wed her to a Harkonnen male (I guess Feyd?) and merge the two families, but to what end? If it was about merging the bloodlines, then isn't that already achieved in Paul anyway regardless of his sex or eventual partner since Jessica is the Baron's daughter? If it was because they thought that would bring about the Kwisatz Haderach, why was it so important for that to happen a generation later than it did? Plus they're apparently still after those Atreides/Harkonnen genes even after Paul, with all the talk in Children about how they might want Leto II and Ghanima to breed. Was Paul just not incesty/Harkonneny enough for them for whatever reason?
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Oct 30, 2021 17:34
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XX chromosomes can carry more information than XY. Maybe that's it.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:43
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Forktoss posted:Book question, I'm reading Children right now but it's been a while since I read Dune/Messiah so I'm hazy on a few background details: What exactly was/is the Bene Gesserits' plan for Jessica's child and the Atreides bloodline? They wanted Jessica to have a daughter so they could wed her to a Harkonnen male (I guess Feyd?) and merge the two families, but to what end? If it was about merging the bloodlines, then isn't that already achieved in Paul anyway regardless of his sex or eventual partner since Jessica is the Baron's daughter? If it was because they thought that would bring about the Kwisatz Haderach, why was it so important for that to happen a generation later than it did? Plus they're apparently still after those Atreides/Harkonnen genes even after Paul, with all the talk in Children about how they might want Leto II and Ghanima to breed. Was Paul just not incesty/Harkonneny enough for them for whatever reason? I think that was the end-point of The Plan, and it makes sense that they were technically correct, Paul was not the KH, but his son Leto II definitely was...
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Oct 30, 2021 17:47
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Forktoss posted:Book question, I'm reading Children right now but it's been a while since I read Dune/Messiah so I'm hazy on a few background details: What exactly was/is the Bene Gesserits' plan for Jessica's child and the Atreides bloodline? They wanted Jessica to have a daughter so they could wed her to a Harkonnen male (I guess Feyd?) and merge the two families, but to what end? If it was about merging the bloodlines, then isn't that already achieved in Paul anyway regardless of his sex or eventual partner since Jessica is the Baron's daughter? If it was because they thought that would bring about the Kwisatz Haderach, why was it so important for that to happen a generation later than it did? Plus they're apparently still after those Atreides/Harkonnen genes even after Paul, with all the talk in Children about how they might want Leto II and Ghanima to breed. Was Paul just not incesty/Harkonneny enough for them for whatever reason? It's a back-cross to cement to ruthlessness and iron will the KH would require. One Harkonnen-load wasn't enough. And the Bene Gesserit were right, since Paul was too chicken poo poo to do the golden path. Luckily there was more than enough grit from Chani for Leto II to succeed. The Bene Gesserit plan was no doubt to marry Feyd into the royal family, thereby placing his son on the throne and avoiding the need for the Jihad. The KH would still have foreseen the golden path and implemented the same policies as the god emperor, so ultimately things would have wound up in the same place.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:47
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When I read the book 15 years ago, I pronounced it in my head as Benny Geh-SER-it, with a hard g. I guess the actual pronunciation makes more sense.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:51
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I do wonder how much of the Bene Gesseret's scheming at that point was "Work to bring about the Messiah" and how much was just being addicted to playing politics and pretending to be the kingmaker, while lying to themselves that it was all for the bigger plan. Like, there has to come a point where they either have so many Contingency plans at work, or they're taking a fairly big gamble that Paula Atrades, Daughter of Leto Atredes, doesn't decide to be a child and accidentally falls down the stairs, or falls into the ocean, or accidentally impaled herself playing with grandpappy's sword. Or that the Baron or Duke just said "gently caress it", declared outright war and "whoops, we wiped out the other royal family. Whatcha gonna do?" Hell, part of me wonders how many members of the Bene Gesserit breathed a sigh of relief that they could focus more on one of the other bloodline projects when Jessica rebelled and sired an heir instead of an heiress.
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Oct 30, 2021 17:56
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