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Yeah if you want to see the director's cut, good news! It's streaming on HBO max and probably still in theaters! If you want to see a 4 hour edit or deleted scenes or whatever, that's probably never going to happen unfortunately. Honestly if after this whole thing is done he were to re-edit the 3 movies into 4 or 5 movies and add in material he cut I'd be down but he doesn't seem like the kind of director to care to revisit his old work or to look for gems on the cutting room floor.
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Nov 5, 2021 12:26
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I should read Hyperion I would say the sequel Fall Of Hyperion is well worth it as well, it just switches from being an anthology to a big-scale space opera while trying to wrap up the characters' stories. I would not say the follow-up Endymion books are worth it
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Nov 5, 2021 12:54
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I liked Endymion. Raul is a good dude.
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Nov 5, 2021 13:59
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Fall of Hyperion has editor's disease, where the prose frequently lurches to a halt to explain what happened in the previous book. It's funny because absolutely no one could come into Fall of Hyperion and understand what's going on, no matter how much explanations you shove into the second book. I wonder who made that decision.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 14:19
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It's been a while since I've read Hyperion, but since it is more of a collection of stories than a full complete story then that might make it possible to break it into episodes. As much as I don't like the concept of duologies and trilogies ( The first Lord of the rings movie was fine, The Hobbit was a travesty ) anymore, for Hyperion you could do the first three characters in one movie and then the next three in the second movie. Keep weaving in the larger story as you go. Or if you're really into it, then make a six-part mini-series on one of the streaming services. That way you can give each story its full due.
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Nov 5, 2021 14:51
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Captain von Trapp posted:big bear-type thing, can imitate the voice of its victims ah, so this is where the critter in Annihilation comes from
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Nov 5, 2021 15:10
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MrL_JaKiri posted:? That's about her father, her mother is unnamed Oh oops. I somehow misread your post to be about Harkonnen being her dad.
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Nov 5, 2021 15:15
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Captain von Trapp posted:The humbling thing about the book is that you start to thing "ok Gene, lay off making up weird sci-fi flavor text words" and then you start to realize with dawning horror that he's not making up any words, your own vocabulary is just pitiful in comparison. Chatelaine? Indanthrene? Paterissa? Too bad for you, better break out the dictionary. quote:Many of these were so old and smoke-grimed that I could not discern their subjects, and there were others whose meaning I could not guess - a dancer whose wings seemed leeches, a silent-looking woman who gripped a double-bladed dagger and sat beneath a mortuary mask. After I had walked at least a league among these enigmatic paintings one day, I came upon an old man perched on a high ladder. I wanted to ask my way, but he seemed so absorbed in his work that I hesitated to disturb him. 
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Nov 5, 2021 15:40
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Arglebargle III posted:Fall of Hyperion has editor's disease, where the prose frequently lurches to a halt to explain what happened in the previous book. It's funny because absolutely no one could come into Fall of Hyperion and understand what's going on, no matter how much explanations you shove into the second book. I wonder who made that decision. Yeah this bugs me about it. There's a bit where a character learns The Terrible Truth at the heart of the entire setting, and there's a bit of exposition thrown in as a reminder of relevant backstory that lands in the middle of the sequence with such a clang that it makes me laugh: quote:Farcasters were the Core’s greatest gift to us … to humankind. Trying to remember a time before far-casting was like trying to imagine a world before fire, the wheel, or clothing. But none of us … none of humankind … had ever speculated on a world between the farcaster portals: that simple step from one world to the next convinced us that the arcane Core singularity spheres merely ripped a tear in the fabric of space-time.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:42
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Can’t stop thinking about that shot of baron harkonen floating up and elongating out of focus while Duke Leto was laid out like a Caravaggio painting. Movie was good.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:45
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Why don’t people like the books the son wrote?
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Nov 5, 2021 16:46
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For one, I have hard time believing he did any actual writing on them at all. Motherfucker was born on third base and hired Kevin J Anderson to run home for him.
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Nov 5, 2021 16:50
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Xiahou Dun posted:Okay I suddenly need to know every single possible bit of information about this. If you liked Dune it's even more Dune than that. It's set in a bizzare feudal future where Earth is a dying backwater, the protagonist is a disgraced torturer who becomes a ruler by the end (this is mentioned in the first chapter) and the book is written as his self-justifying political memoir that's also about him trying to move past being an awful person and it's somehow gone back in time so there's multiple layers of unreliable narration going on, plus the plot just goes all over the place especially from book to book StashAugustine fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 16:52
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ruddiger posted:Can’t stop thinking about that shot of baron harkonen floating up and elongating out of focus while Duke Leto was laid out like a Caravaggio painting. Yeah like the Baron was the smeared-out skull out of focus off to the side.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:11
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Boris Galerkin posted:Why don’t people like the books the son wrote? The bull that killed the Old Duke wasn't just a bull, it was a mutant space bull with multiple horns and such. The Baron isn't fat because he's a perverted slob; he raped Mohiam and she gave him Fatness Disease as revenge. Jessica is the child of Mohiam and the Baron. Considering that characters in Frank's novel have access to ancestral memories, you'd think that they would mention it. The Butlerian Jihad is imagined as a literal war against the Borg and the Cylons, with special robot-killing electro-swords. The leader of the Cylons invented mentats. The Bene Gesserit's abilities are literally psychic powers, not "merely" mastery of psychology and biofeedback. Although the Emperor's right-hand man is a "genetic eunuch," he's just infertile. He can have sex, in fact he has lots of sex with his beautiful wife. Here, let me describe the sex to you at length. Paul had all kinds of adventures across the galaxy before the beginning of the narrative in Dune. It's like all those Batman and Superman spinoffs where they were already fighting crime when they were kids. Duncan Idaho becomes Cybergod of the universe.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:19
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Also didn't he claim multiple times he found his dads notes and that all the terrible ideas were Frank's? LOL. They were garbage books, I think I read the first four or so and then hated myself for it.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:45
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Halloween Jack posted:I would like to add that the Book of the New Sun is very readable, but it also rewards multiple readings.  Totally missed that. I've only read it once, looks like I need to take another round of it.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:47
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Boris Galerkin posted:Why don’t people like the books the son wrote? Jewish people have had a secret society that secretly lives in space and infiltrates organizations from behind the shadows. Not some stand in allegory the way a bunch of dune stuff is allegorical for various groups in the middle east, just regular old space jews. sneakin around, infiltrating organizations secretly and controlling things, using secret jewish magic they didn't tell anyone about. (which they feel the BG copied from them)
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Nov 5, 2021 17:49
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Wasn't that in Chapterhouse, which Frank wrote himself? Sorry, I stopped after God-Emperor.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:51
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I'd add: The universe is tiny and revolves around a handful of planets and the houses Atreides, Corrino, and Harkonnen or their ancestors. Leto's Golden Path was a failure that did not actually end the existential threat posed by murder robots. I won't sing the stylistic praises of Frank's writing, but KJA's prose is about as flat as flat can be. There's a complete absence of interesting subtext or commentary; it's just a big old space opera. And most importantly, Sandworms of Dune features sandworms in an ocean both on its cover and in its text. I only read Sandworms and Hunters because I thought I might need to know how they wrapped things up for a project I was working on. I was wrong. And for that, I suffered. Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't that in Chapterhouse, which Frank wrote himself? Sorry, I stopped after God-Emperor. Secret Jews are in Chapterhouse, but they don't secretly control everything; they're more just secret BG allies.
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Nov 5, 2021 17:53
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Jewish people have had a secret society that secretly lives in space and infiltrates organizations from behind the shadows. e:f,b dats wat I get for not refreshing the page
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Nov 5, 2021 17:56
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So which books are considered canon then? I was listening to a podcast and they sounded like a lot of info came from the dune encyclopedia.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:08
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I just had a wild revelation that I needed to post somewhere. I was rewatching the Lynch Dune and was just loving noticed for the first time that Fatboy Slim quoted this in Weapon of Choice. I have been listening to this song since I was a kid and I didn't realise, it genuinely shocked me and cracked me up. For fucks sake, sorry if this is old news but oh my god. What a cultural reset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt0WoO7cZJ8
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Nov 5, 2021 18:17
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Boris Galerkin posted:So which books are considered canon then? I was listening to a podcast and they sounded like a lot of info came from the dune encyclopedia. This is really getting into the weeds on poo poo no one should care about, but... I think there are basically two camps: - Frank books plus dune encyclopedia only - Failson book supremacy. Dune encyclopedia is thrown out, frank books are now in universe texts not necessarily reflecting what really happened, failson books win in case of conflict If you look at eg the wiki it is actually split into two separate wikis along this line
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Nov 5, 2021 18:25
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Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't that in Chapterhouse, which Frank wrote himself? Sorry, I stopped after God-Emperor. Chapterhouse is more like, Jews were brutalized by the catholic takeover of the universe and driven into hiding, But their faith had remained in small pockets. Like some small number of people passing on their faith person to person generation to generation quietly. Herbert books they are more like a secret organization that talks to each other and flies around and makes plans to do stuff, it's a tone shift that makes it go from normal to weird.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:33
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Halloween Jack posted:The Butlerian Jihad is imagined as a literal war against the Borg and the Cylons, with special robot-killing electro-swords. The leader of the Cylons invented mentats. Apart from all the other horrible schlock in the failson books, this gets my goat the most. Dune has no magic, no AI and no unambiguous heroes. Those are fundamental elements of the story and really can't be excised without turning into a wholly other and worse work.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:37
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Paul of Dune is a hilarious book title, at least.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:40
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Apart from all the other horrible schlock in the failson books, this gets my goat the most. Dune has no magic, no AI and no unambiguous heroes. Those are fundamental elements of the story and really can't be excised without turning into a wholly other and worse work. Alia gets possessed by the ghost of Baron Harkonen. You can talk about how it's genetic memory or whatever, but come on, that shits magic.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:50
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Hulk Krogan posted:Paul of Dune is a hilarious book title, at least. who is also maud’dib, usul and dj pauly d among us
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Nov 5, 2021 18:52
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Boris Galerkin posted:So which books are considered canon then? I was listening to a podcast and they sounded like a lot of info came from the dune encyclopedia. But yeah, Frank Herbert wrote: Dune Dune Messiah Children of Dune God-Emperor of Dune Heretics of Dune Chapterhouse: Dune A short illustrated story called "The Road to Dune" Herbert was cagey about what exactly the Butlerian Jihad entailed. His other works imply that he was thinking of a surveillance state just a bit more dystopic than the one we live in today. He wrote a short story called "2068 AD" which imagines that in the future, the middle class will rebel against being constantly surveilled. There may also have been literal killer robots, and likewise, drone warfare already exists. But the crux of it was a society so thoroughly computerized that the ruling class could just quash any dissent before it gained momentum. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Herbert books they are more like a secret organization that talks to each other and flies around and makes plans to do stuff, it's a tone shift that makes it go from normal to weird. Patrick Spens posted:Alia gets possessed by the ghost of Baron Harkonen. You can talk about how it's genetic memory or whatever, but come on, that shits magic.
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Nov 5, 2021 18:53
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Hulk Krogan posted:Paul of Dune is a hilarious book title, at least. Bob of Dune
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Nov 5, 2021 18:54
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I'm used to, like, Duncan Idaho, but I still do a double-take when I see references to Malky and Marty.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:00
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StashAugustine posted:If you liked Dune it's even more Dune than that. It's set in a bizzare feudal future where Earth is a dying backwater, the protagonist is a disgraced torturer who becomes a ruler by the end (this is mentioned in the first chapter) and the book is written as his self-justifying political memoir that's also about him trying to move past being an awful person and it's somehow gone back in time so there's multiple layers of unreliable narration going on, plus the plot just goes all over the place especially from book to book What book is this?
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Nov 5, 2021 19:26
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Nov 5, 2021 19:29
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Man old sci fi art just slaps.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:34
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I can't wait until they make a BotNS movie. Then we can replace those nasty old covers with orange pictures of some actors above a sword or a building.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:42
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Halloween Jack posted:Every book except the Dune Encyclopedia is Canon, because Brian Herbert owns his father's estate and gets to make that decision. Canon, like money, is a fake idea that exists to oppress people. The appendix of Dune has section on terminology used in the book, and it makes it clear that there were conscious robots. Torquemada posted:Man old sci fi art just slaps. I wish I could find it again.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:49
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I, the reader, decide what is canon. The only downside of having that power is that I have to occasionally read crappy books that end up not being canon
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Nov 5, 2021 19:54
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The appendix of Dune has section on terminology used in the book, and it makes it clear that there were conscious robots.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:57
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Boris Galerkin posted:So which books are considered canon then? I was listening to a podcast and they sounded like a lot of info came from the dune encyclopedia. National Lampoon's Doon BlankSystemDaemon posted:I know I don't speak for other Orthodox Herbertarians, but the failson sure as gently caress doesn't get to decide what's canon just because he inherited the estate. For all practical and commercial considerations, he does. Doesn't mean you have to accept that. Like Halloween Jack said, canon is a fake idea. quote:The appendix of Dune has section on terminology used in the book, and it makes it clear that there were conscious robots. Yeah, there are robots involved, but it definitely comes off as a much broader luddite movement than just some Terminator or Matrix style war against the machines. Like I said previously, the problem with Brian and KJA's books in that regard isn't that they add some man v machine conflict that never appeared in Frank's books; it's that they ignore that the Golden Path ended that conflict's existential thread to humanity. I know I harp on it a lot, but that's the whole point of Siona's vision, which is incredibly important because it's what causes her to finally understand and accept her place in Leto's grand plan.
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Nov 5, 2021 19:59
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