|
david_a posted:In case you haven’t seen this: Thanks for that, holy crap mid 80s-Japanese commercials are amazing on their own. Jodorwsky's Dune was the first time I actually paid attention to Giger's work, it's spectacular. God drat page snipes, here: https://imgur.com/i54g2NV Shartweek fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Nov 8, 2021 |
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 05:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 05:11 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I’m not going to poison you with a needle, I am going to hold a gom jabber to your neck which is coated in meta cyanide, let me explain the whole history of this needle while we stand here with me threatening to kill you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 05:42
|
|
|
bawfuls posted:It’s funny cause my recollection of the book was constantly having in-universe proper blunder thrown around with no explains having to flip back to the glossary all the time to figure out wtf the characters were talking about. owlofcreamcehese is just kinda fighting with a book that exists only in their head, rip Dune posted:‘I hold at your neck the gom jabbar,’ she said. ‘The gom jabbar, the high-handed enemy. It’s a needle with a drop of poison on its tip. Ah-ah! Don’t pull away or you’ll feel that poison.’
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 06:10
|
|
|
Musky,
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 06:12
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:I can't remember if the novels have any indication that the guild ships are jump gates like depicted in the movie, I always imagined that they were just really big vessels that can move as fast as the plot requires them to and that it was really expensive for them to go places, so it always felt to me like dune was of the particular soft sci-fi brand that had implicit FTL communications without delving into the logistics of them at all, it's been years since my last re-read but I really can't think of any instance where FTL communications are discussed as a logistic hurdle, or something particularly expensive. Maybe it's just my bad memory. Are those jump gates? I thought those were the actual guild ships ferrying all the other ships along. The hollow space is simply the "hold" for lack of a better word. All the other ships get in there and are dragged along when the guild ship folds space.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 06:15
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:It’s a Stargate tunnel
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 06:30
|
|
|
Proteus Jones posted:Are those jump gates? I thought those were the actual guild ships ferrying all the other ships along. The hollow space is simply the "hold" for lack of a better word. All the other ships get in there and are dragged along when the guild ship folds space. Much like the Spider-thing, the ship as gates is a kind of weird invention for the movie... and like... only for that one shot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 06:38
|
|
|
jeeves posted:Much like the Spider-thing, the ship as gates is a kind of weird invention for the movie... and like... only for that one shot. I dunno what it says that all the most memorable shots and scenes are inventions though. Like I don't know a single person who wasn't like "What was up with the Sardukar ritual" in a good way
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 07:01
|
|
|
re: the hotpot video https://twitter.com/tongbingxue/status/1457223008674713604
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 07:15
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:owlofcreamcehese is just kinda fighting with a book that exists only in their head, rip I feel it's kind of a shame only Lynch actually put in the silver teeth on Mother Mohiam.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 07:25
|
|
jeeves posted:Much like the Spider-thing, the ship as gates is a kind of weird invention for the movie... and like... only for that one shot. I imagine that there are a lot more inhabited planets than heighliners, so the guild charges a shitload to have one show up in orbit for you and link up to your destination when you need to move poo poo.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 08:10
|
|
|
Which begs a question (that I’m positive someone knows the answer to): having established that there’s no FTL communication in the Dune universe, and the Guild charges insane prices for every journey… how do you even book a trip? Say I’m Brendan Oregon and Duke Leto wants to send me from Caladan to somewhere off world, do people just sit around waiting for the space bus to turn up? Is there a scheduled flight?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 09:13
|
|
|
Oh that’s easy, the navigators are high as gently caress on precog seasoning so they already know when they need to show up and have the register ready to go on arrival
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 09:16
|
|
|
inject the sardaukar ritual straight into my veins
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 09:23
|
|
|
Torquemada posted:Which begs a question (that I’m positive someone knows the answer to): having established that there’s no FTL communication in the Dune universe, and the Guild charges insane prices for every journey… how do you even book a trip? Say I’m Brendan Oregon and Duke Leto wants to send me from Caladan to somewhere off world, do people just sit around waiting for the space bus to turn up? Is there a scheduled flight? I don’t think the Heighliners are the only Guild ships. I saw an excerpt from from the Dune Encyclopedia that said they had way more smaller ships than they had Heighliners. I think there’s also some ambiguity about the types of FTL. There’s folding space with the Holtzman drive, but I think there’s other, older FTL drives too. It might just be a network of smaller mail ships constantly hopping around the universe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
I'll never stop https://twitter.com/ETVPod/status/1457700384416403459?t=tMoWzEm7IgwdUUrRcnsJXA&s=19
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 14:53
|
|
|
I remember that when I was reviewing the Dune RPG, they said that Heighliners effectively have a schedule like trains, and the train comes through a central hub world more often than some far-flung backwater. The Guild must have small ships of its own, for the same reason any shipping company/airline does. The Heighliners are effectively jump gates--I mean, you load a bunch of stuff into it and then it vanishes and reappears somewhere else.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 15:20
|
|
|
I am sure you could easily make a hand wave answer about it always be minutely different every time or galactic orbits or something, but it's funny the whole function of the whole concept of the need for spice is to have navigators because navigators are the only people that can plot routes for the warp engine because it's so complex. Then in practice they just set up routes and go the exact same places the exact same way over and over like a train on a track. yeah we know we turned you into a giant fish monster, yeah I know you can calculate a route between any two points in the universe.... just bring me the same way you always do bus driver.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 15:41
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese do you support bus drivers closing their eyes and driving the same route as always regardless of if there are unforeseen blockages in the road
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:37
|
|
|
I saw DUNC last week and I read the threade and I'm all Dune'ing these days. DUNC.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:39
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Then in practice they just set up routes and go the exact same places the exact same way over and over like a train on a track. yeah we know we turned you into a giant fish monster, yeah I know you can calculate a route between any two points in the universe.... just bring me the same way you always do bus driver. yeah it's a good thing the cosmos is perfectly static and celestial objects don't move around at all. hey, isn't that gas giant getting kind of close to th
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I saw DUNC last week and I read the threade and I'm all Dune'ing these days.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
Is it supposed to be this dark? I can't see poo poo! Even the daytime desert stuff looks like I'm watching through the bottom of a glass jar.
henpod fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
The point of the Navigators is that folding space is inherently uncertain and no amount of being good at maths will let you pick the right calculation - unless you cheat by peeking forwards in time to see which calculation was the right one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Excuse me, weird double post. henpod fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Nov 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:The point of the Navigators is that folding space is inherently uncertain and no amount of being good at maths will let you pick the right calculation - unless you cheat by peeking forwards in time to see which calculation was the right one. So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
Who's to say they do! In the books (which is not necessarily relevant to the movie) the spacers guild effectively controls human civilization with their space travel monopoly, so they don't really have any need for bigger ambitions. In the Lynch movie they're able to foresee threats to their own power, and they instruct the Emperor Of The Known Universe to kill Paul Atreides
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
The guild are also stated to have an effective monopoly on banking in the known universe as well as on travel.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel? navigators follow the anime trope where like, when all the characters in the anime have a special power source it's all just regular looking people with maybe a gimmick then the first ultra powerful guy they meet with over 9000 power is some hulking inhuman mutated beast monster, but then when they get to the really most highest upper level everyone goes back to just being a dude. Navigators live in spice nonstop and turn into weird spice monsters, but they are kinda way less powerful than a Bene Gesserit who takes much less spice but has special breeding and conditioning and trials and rituals to make them actual masters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel? because that gets them everything they want.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Who's to say they do! At the end of the first book Paul explains the problem being that the Guild use their prescience exclusively to look for the shortest, safest path through the future (because that's how the space folding works), which means that they are unable to see anything in the future that isn't a dead certainty or not. They can't sift possible futures and gauge risk/reward because they don't think in those terms. That's a main theme of Dune - that hyper specialising how you think and neglecting the full human experience means you end up making bad decisions. I do like the Lynch interpretation of the story that the Guild and the BG have been shadow boxing over whether the KH can come into existence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel? I always thought their capacity to look forward in time was limited to just a few seconds. Useful to not run the FTL ships into a star, but not enough to do anything else.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
In Dune Messiah, I believe Paul was in a sort of prescience standoff with the Navigator Edric. You can't use prescience to preempt a group that has a prescient on their side, because you end up in a Bad TV Writing Spiral of "No, it was all part of my plan, I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that..."
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:In Dune Messiah, I believe Paul was in a sort of prescience standoff with the Navigator Edric. You can't use prescience to preempt a group that has a prescient on their side, because you end up in a Bad TV Writing Spiral of "No, it was all part of my plan, I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that..." However, Paul also completely missed that Leto II was even born, as his (second) son never figured in his visions (despite the fact that he knew his first son had died, which is perhaps a bit of a plot hole).
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:I'll never stop There are too many liberal arts grad students for this to happen
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
david_a posted:I don’t think the Heighliners are the only Guild ships. I saw an excerpt from from the Dune Encyclopedia that said they had way more smaller ships than they had Heighliners. I think there’s also some ambiguity about the types of FTL. There’s folding space with the Holtzman drive, but I think there’s other, older FTL drives too. Big ol' orange mailbag with every official visit, like on navy ships.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Paul could make rather astute guesses at where Edric had been, I believe, because people (I suppose Irulan?) would sometimes vanish - which is why he knew of the conspiracy and even that it was Irulan who'd poisoned Chani.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
What if spice was on the blockchain.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:However, Paul also completely missed that Leto II was even born, as his (second) son never figured in his visions (despite the fact that he knew his first son had died, which is perhaps a bit of a plot hole). Paul foresees the birth of Leto II. He does not foresee that Leto II will have a twin sister.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 05:11 |
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:So if they can peek forward in time to see the future, why do they stop at “just” controlling space travel? Conveniently, Dune Messiah has a quote on this exact topic quote:The most dangerous game in the universe is to govern from an oracular base. We do not consider ourselves wise enough or brave enough to play that game. The measures detailed here for regulation in lesser matters are as near as we dare venture to the brink of government. For our purposes, we borrow a definition from the Bene Gesserit and we consider the various worlds as gene pools, sources of teachings and teachers, sources of the possible. Our goal is not to rule, but to tap these gene pools, to learn, and to free ourselves from all restraints imposed by dependency and government
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2021 22:14
|
|
