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stratdax posted:Lol ya never seen a cut like that before in a movie. Truly advanced filmmaking. I've seen over one thousand films
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Nov 13, 2021 20:37
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finally got a chance to see this in IMAX and I was loving floored all the way through. I've been into Dune since I was a child, playing Dune 2 on a 486 laptop, getting a letterbox copy of Lynch's film as a Christmas gift when I wasn't even 10 years old, though funny enough I didn't read any of the books until I was older (was 11 or 12 when I read the first book). I have a fondness for all things Dune that embrace the inherent weirdness and alien feeling that I got from Frank's writing, so there are things that I liked in Lynch's adaptation, things I liked in the SciFi series, and things now in 2021. There's also stuff that I don't like but that's normal, every screen adaptation so far has embraced the aesthetic of the universe in a way that I've sat back and thought "yeah, I dig it". With all that said I have to say that I literally wept tears of joy and overwhelming excitement while watching this because somehow Villeneuve looked into my brain and took designs for things like the stillsuits, the harvesters, even shield generators and was able to replicate them in a way that they seemed like things that could be found in the real world when I would leave the theatre. The big thing for me was the Ornithopters, having my first experience being Dune 2 I had always pictured the 'thopters as these sleek and agile craft with flapping wings considering this is the first time we see them in the intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tC32ZIYXlE&t=113s and that always stuck with me. As technology got better, they made them look better in the Dune 2000 intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_N1zkgwLTY&t=60s but for some reason the Lynch film and the miniseries they didn't look like anything special. The Heighliners and all of the space-capable craft in Lynch Dune were terrific, but everything on Arrakis just seemed typical sci-fi and the miniseries wasn't much better (lack of budget can do that). So of course when we finally get to Arrakis and they show a runway full of Ornithopters (and they also take some lineage from the 'thopter design from the Cryo Interactive game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_B4WPnf-AY&t=520s) and I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. When the wings came out and they started flapping and they take off I don't even know how to describe the sensation that came over me, it was sublime! Every goddamn time a 'thopter was onscreen I had a huge smile on my face and my eyes would start watering again. I mean, the scale of the space-capable ships also pleased me but not in the same way as the Ornithopters. Honestly, I would probably give this movie 10/10 just on the 'thopters alone but there were other things I did like. I was happy that Jessica got more to do, she has presence similar to the miniseries, but it is too bad that it means we don't get a lot of time with other people. I know who Yueh is because I've digested so much lore over the years that I can fill in the blanks but I can very easily see how viewers without that immersion may be left wanting, same with Gurney and Thufir or even the Harkonnens, it's easy to brush off how little they are there because, true, in the book they don't get a lot of screen time during this part but films have different needs to the written medium. With that in mind I gotta say that Jason Momoa works quite well as Duncan, before him I could never understand why the gently caress he kept coming back in the books and why he was treated like the Dune version of Mr. Darcy because the Lynch and miniseries versions were not memorable. Say what you will about Momoa's range, but for a character that is as desirable and memorable, in-universe, in the books he was the right person for the job and they actually gave Duncan poo poo to do as well!!!! In the Lynch film he puts up a fight against the Sardukar better than the other Atreides and then goes down to a shield-penetrating nail or something but otherwise he's onscreen for barely 3 minutes. In the miniseries he plays a larger part both with Paul and within the Atreides but then when he dies he just takes a missile to the face and that's that. At least now we finally are given something with substance to attempt to justify his continued presence in the rest of the series. Also, some other good changes the film made, Liet Kynes as a woman, this works very well and the character in the book can easily be interpreted as any gender so this was quite a welcome change. Some other nice stuff was having other characters do things that Paul does, such as Duncan spitting on the floor when we first meet Stilgar. I prefer this because it demonstrates Duncan's knowledge and that he has actually integrated with the Fremen, as opposed to Paul doing it because ~he just knows their ways~ which hedges a bit too close to the White Saviour trope, we already have the stillsuit inspection to cover that aspect of the prophecy so good to give that to someone else that should know and understand the custom already. As others have said, Jamis was great, for a guy that gets, what, a couple pages? his bit ended up being a great tipping point and everything approaching it was masterfully crafted for what's to come in the story. I also like that he's not doing it because he's bitter that Paul disarmed him, he's bringing some nice foreshadowing of what Paul will have to address with Stilgar in part 2. I also just like that we are given a bit more substance for when Paul will declare he was a friend of Jamis and shed water for the dead, I like what people have said in here about how Paul was seeing potential paths and under different circumstances, he and Jamis could be friends. My interpretation of the visions was that Jamis appeared because his prescience was making him aware that Jamis will be focal point of where his life will lead, similar to why he keeps seeing Chani, and that Jamis IS teaching him the Fremen ways in the visions, because by taking his life, Paul will become a Fremen. Honestly, for a movie that still isn't as densely packed as the novel, they still managed to cram A LOT into 2.5 hours and I look forward to watching it many more times, just like I do the Lynch and miniseries.
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Nov 13, 2021 20:53
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Blood Boils posted:Enemy of the state slaps! with the exception of wanting dune back this is what most mens motivations are
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Nov 13, 2021 21:04
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Aces High posted:Every goddamn time a 'thopter was onscreen I had a huge smile on my face and my eyes would start watering again. I mean, the scale of the space-capable ships also pleased me but not in the same way as the Ornithopters. Honestly, I would probably give this movie 10/10 just on the 'thopters alone but there were other things I did like. Neo Rasa posted:Has any deve/publisher in history started so incredibly strong/visionary and then completely dropped off a cliff as hard as Cryo did? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cryo_Interactive_video_games
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Nov 13, 2021 21:43
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Can’t get a much better example than Activision themselves. Started as a group of game devs who split from Atari over things like wanting credit for making the games, released stone classics like River Raid and Pitfall, but they were never the same after the video game crash in North America. EA’s not a bad example either. Released some great stuff for the PC, Starflight, Pinball Construction Set, Adventure Construction Set. Their sports games were for a while worthy of their reputation. Slowly they became what they are today, a company that buys other companies and actively makes them worse.
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Nov 13, 2021 22:13
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The part of this film that is sticking with me is how it handled the character of Jamis. In the book it's easy to see him as a plot device for Paul to overcome. In this film, the way Paul's visions paint him as a mentor, guide, and father figure- it's just incredibly poignant and beautiful, aided very much by the gravitas that the actor brings to the role. In those visions, it's clear that Jamis loves Paul and has a whole world to show him. DENIS did a great job in using this to highlight Paul's ability to see into the multiverse- it's not something that the viewer gets beaten over the head with, but Paul is navigating these timelines like a ship dodging ice bergs. It will make the follow up scenes in part 2 that much more affecting. Jamis is such a tragic figure in the film and is a powerful microcosm of the whole story. Superb writing and filmmaking.
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Nov 14, 2021 03:10
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:The part of this film that is sticking with me is how it handled the character of Jamis. In the book it's easy to see him as a plot device for Paul to overcome. In this film, the way Paul's visions paint him as a mentor, guide, and father figure- it's just incredibly poignant and beautiful, aided very much by the gravitas that the actor brings to the role. In those visions, it's clear that Jamis loves Paul and has a whole world to show him. DENIS did a great job in using this to highlight Paul's ability to see into the multiverse- it's not something that the viewer gets beaten over the head with, but Paul is navigating these timelines like a ship dodging ice bergs. It will make the follow up scenes in part 2 that much more affecting. This was a huge standout for me too. I kind of hope they have his funeral scene at the start of the next movie before doing the time jump (they do show them bringing the body with them as they travel).
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Nov 14, 2021 04:13
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Aces High posted:I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. When the wings came out and they started flapping and they take off I don't even know how to describe the sensation that came over me, it was sublime! I loving loved this, and like when Leto is looking out past the city and they're discussing where all the vehicles are/and the processing area felt like a tutorial for the games  The United States posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPkdMGI6D4 I actually hosed up really bad and all this time thought they were involved in making Captain Blood so never mind lol
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Nov 14, 2021 04:19
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Neo Rasa posted:This was a huge standout for me too. I kind of hope they have his funeral scene at the start of the next movie before doing the time jump (they do show them bringing the body with them as they travel). they still need to show Jessica's ascension to full Reverend Mother status so there are going to have to be at least a handful of scenes before the time skip
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Nov 14, 2021 04:20
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When I heard that DENIS is wanting 3 films, I got really excited because I think a trilogy of films for the first book would be a vast improvement over a 2 part approach. Part 2 could really focus on the time spent in the sietch, and sort of slow the pace down from the breakneck speed of part 1. Jamis's funeral could bridge the gap between films really well, and make it seem an almost instant transition, which would work best IMO. I'd never seen Babs Olusanmokun in any other role and it didn't surprise me to learn that he's a legit martial artist (black belt in BJJ). His physicality and his voice are a strong combination and he really stole the 3rd act of the film for me.
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Nov 14, 2021 04:41
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He already said the third movie would be the second book which is Dune Messiah
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Nov 14, 2021 04:46
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Dune Messiah is really just the third act of Dune anyway. It's the "careful what you wish for because you may get it" act.
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Nov 14, 2021 04:54
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Since they didn't call this first movie Dune Part I and the third one would reasonably be called Dune Messiah, they can have fun and hopefully call the second movie Dune II: The Battle for Arrakis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ipNxb4X_fA Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 14, 2021 |
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Nov 14, 2021 06:33
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Was the Cryo/Exxos Dune the first western game to get an arranged soundtrack? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWn1C1POc6M They should have used some of this in the movie imo lol
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Nov 14, 2021 06:41
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Yeah, Messiah gets a lot of hate because it's mostly people standing around scheming, but it's a legit cool/unique end of Paul as Maud'dib story.
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Nov 14, 2021 06:55
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There's a bunch of stuff in the book where Paul doesn't know if he's in a vision of the future or the present or what the present even is, so there's rich soil for flashbacks and poo poo. This would also be, uh, within Villeneuve's wheelhouse, to put it lightly.
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Nov 14, 2021 07:02
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:The part of this film that is sticking with me is how it handled the character of Jamis. In the book it's easy to see him as a plot device for Paul to overcome. In this film, the way Paul's visions paint him as a mentor, guide, and father figure- it's just incredibly poignant and beautiful, aided very much by the gravitas that the actor brings to the role. In those visions, it's clear that Jamis loves Paul and has a whole world to show him. DENIS did a great job in using this to highlight Paul's ability to see into the multiverse- it's not something that the viewer gets beaten over the head with, but Paul is navigating these timelines like a ship dodging ice bergs. It will make the follow up scenes in part 2 that much more affecting. There are people who actually think the film should have ended 2/3s in like the Jamis scene doesn't turn the whole film on its head. Like Jessica thinks Paul hesitates because he has never killed a man but the truth is that he is about to kill the most important mentor he has never met yet and break a link to the future he does not understand this absolutely made the movie for me but maybe that's because I've literally never watched/read/played anything to do with Dune except 2000 on the PS1
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Nov 14, 2021 12:10
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Neo Rasa posted:Since they didn't call this first movie Dune Part I and the third one would reasonably be called Dune Messiah, they can have fun and hopefully call the second movie Dune II: The Battle for Arrakis. They did, though? When the title pops up it definitely says "PART ONE" underneath
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Nov 14, 2021 14:52
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Another thing that got me that I wasn't prepared for was the music, some of the later bits when we are on Arrakis sounded strikingly familiar to some of the pieces from the games. One of those, appropriately enough, being "Fremen" from Dune 2000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPR6fnmiaWE Also, for any other game lovers did anyone else, when they were unloading at the starport, whisper to themselves "vast armies have arrived" or was that just a me thing
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Nov 14, 2021 14:55
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Bedshaped posted:There are people who actually think the film should have ended 2/3s in like the Jamis scene doesn't turn the whole film on its head. Like Jessica thinks Paul hesitates because he has never killed a man but the truth is that he is about to kill the most important mentor he has never met yet and break a link to the future he does not understand It's cool that the moviefilm has added something of its own!
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Nov 14, 2021 16:16
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So how would Jamis have become his mentor? It seemed like the two scenarios were always he killed Jamis or Jamis killed him there. Is the idea that he could have taken a path to avoid the duel but just didnt realize it yet? Or Paul just reaching out to all the possible futures for information? The mentor visions made me think Paul might try to find a way to end the duel with both alive. But of course Stilgar made it clear that this was not possible. Also I saw that this scene was one of the deleted ones from 1984 Dune. It looks like it was never completely filmed, but they shot the killing blow and tears at least.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:59
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checkplease posted:So how would Jamis have become his mentor? It seemed like the two scenarios were always he killed Jamis or Jamis killed him there. Is the idea that he could have taken a path to avoid the duel but just didnt realize it yet? Or Paul just reaching out to all the possible futures for information? Those visions may well have been from an entirely different timeline, where e.g. the Harkonnen ambush never happened/was repelled, and Paul made contact with the Fremen on more even terms. Or perhaps just one where Jamis stayed at home during that particular patrol, leading to them meeting later on.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:07
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I think Paul isn't good enough at prescience to realize he was seeing the future but not understanding it. Jamis teaches Paul the way of the Fremen, but not in a way Paul expects.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:17
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Yeah I didn’t see it as a peek at an alternate timeline so much as just evidence that while Paul has some degree of prescience, his visions can’t be trusted to be 100% accurate.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:23
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I don't think he even misunderstood, he just knew he didn't understand. He doesn't seem especially surprised about how things play out. That said, whether or not you wish to think of the scenes representing unrealized possibilities (something Paul explicitly sees in the books) or not has little bearing on how the dream is interpreted, which is pretty straightforward.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:11
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saw this last night and surprised by how quick 2.5 hours went. sounds like cliche praise for a movie but I don't remember when that last happened. maybe the director's minimalist style worked better for 2049 A.D. rather than 10,000 A.D. though - then again, the latter future could very well be stripped down and bleak... seems like a personal preference. imo, Jodorowsky sounds like a pretentious blowhard and his Dune probably would have been a stupid mess need to see Lynch's
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Nov 14, 2021 19:15
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Yeah I didn’t see it as a peek at an alternate timeline so much as just evidence that while Paul has some degree of prescience, his visions can’t be trusted to be 100% accurate. Yeah, he even says this explicitly to the Reverend Mother. He dreams things as they happen, but not exactly as they happen.
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Nov 14, 2021 19:52
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:saw this last night and surprised by how quick 2.5 hours went. sounds like cliche praise for a movie but I don't remember when that last happened. maybe the director's minimalist style worked better for 2049 A.D. rather than 10,000 A.D. though - then again, the latter future could very well be stripped down and bleak... seems like a personal preference.
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Nov 14, 2021 20:46
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Lynch hadn't read the book before taking the job, would have been hard for him to write the film without at least taking a glance
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Nov 14, 2021 20:49
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Maxwell Lord posted:Lynch hadn't read the book before taking the job, would have been hard for him to write the film without at least taking a glance
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Nov 14, 2021 21:00
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David lynch read the book. Also the film was cut to poo poo by the studio.
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Nov 14, 2021 22:18
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CelticPredator posted:David lynch read the book. Doesn't explain why his name is still attached to newer cuts.
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Nov 14, 2021 22:20
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DGA nonsense. Do you want him to explain it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k-88mY-f-w
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Nov 14, 2021 22:22
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CelticPredator posted:DGA nonsense. Do you want him to explain it? Not that he's the only one to blame, because Raffaella De Laurentiis hadn't seen his work before hiring him, so clearly the entire thing was doomed from the start when a little thing like prior art doesn't figure in the producers mind at that point in pre-production. Also, it's a bit revisionist of him to claim it had to be cut down by someone else - according to an interview in 1984, the first script was over 200 pages and would've resulted in a movie that was over four hours long - but even after they cut the script down to 135 pages (or 120, according to newer interviews; though these aren't sourced) through six revisions, which he had complete control over, the movie still ended up being longer than was contracted for; something that doesn't add up with the many script additions that're mentioned in the interview mentioned above.
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Nov 14, 2021 22:46
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He didn’t have final cut my guy lmao.
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Nov 14, 2021 22:56
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There are only two "official" cuts of Dune 1984 - the theatrical and the extended TV version. Lynch was involved in the theatrical but I don't think he considers it to be "his" since we was forced to remove so much. The TV version had no involvement from Lynch and he made them take his name off of it, which is why it's also known as the Alan Smithee cut.
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Nov 14, 2021 23:03
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david_a posted:There are only two "official" cuts of Dune 1984 - the theatrical and the extended TV version. Lynch was involved in the theatrical but I don't think he considers it to be "his" since we was forced to remove so much. The TV version had no involvement from Lynch and he made them take his name off of it, which is why it's also known as the Alan Smithee cut.
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Nov 14, 2021 23:10
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:There's at least one more, released as Dune: Extended Edition which contains a bunch of extra scenes and deleted scenes - which is the source of many of the scenes in the Alternative Edition Redux. That’s the TV cut.
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Nov 14, 2021 23:21
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david_a posted:That’s the TV cut. I think there might've also been a different cinematic release in Europe, but I don't really remember too well. EDIT: I've said this before and, I'd like to point out that I don't dislike David Lynch, and I really like his other movies because they are David Lynch movies with all that that entails. The David Lynch version of Dune, however, is not a good David Lynch movie, and it's not a good film adaptation of the novel either. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 14, 2021 |
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Nov 14, 2021 23:28
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Lynch's Dune has been recut so many times it's hard to know who the author even is.
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Nov 15, 2021 00:00
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