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b-minus1 posted:Idk it just strange that so many people are treating toal’s night action as a slam dunk case against merk. With that said I don’t actually know who is voting because votefinder isn’t working for me. Is anyone else having t hi s problem It's a cherry on the top at this point to me really. There's enough to go on. Give me a moment to summarize it.
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Nov 16, 2021 17:59
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:53 |
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merk posted:Your case on me still makes no sense besides the night action bingo thing. That’s all there is. You haven’t even analyzed my Meen vote, my primary case. The one where you just +1'd binus then immediately went caveman mode over my Beet vote? Yeah sorry I didn't feel like paying your later clarifications too much attention. But ok I went to go back and have a better look, this seems to be the best summary: merk posted:EXPLAINED BETTER: Newbie scum joining a turbo looks like what Meen would post. You can't just nakedly throw a vote out without anything, so you trump up the vote with surface analysis and other thoughts to make it sound better. And what was that Meen post again? Ignatius M. Meen posted:I'll volunteer! late since I saw you're already going for merk tonight but hey! that probably increases the chance you'll visit me later Yeah I dunno looks like a typical Meen post, I'm more concerned by his hardcore lurking
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Nov 16, 2021 18:07
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What about my case on Meen is scummy?
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Nov 16, 2021 18:13
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"I disagree" does not make me scum.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:13
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merk posted:What about my case on Meen is scummy? Nothing! Who said it was! It's just meh! God!
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Nov 16, 2021 18:14
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Got it. Let's vote me out!
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Nov 16, 2021 18:16
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Let's start: Merk just now claimed that this is an apathy lunch.merk posted:The old slow roll into a likely merk elimination barrels down the freeway. merk posted:The fact that I'm going to get eliminated today when I wasn't even here for a bad turbo and my primary case of the day was to evaluate that turbo for the worst vote (Meen) "is the stupidest thing in the world, and I just want y'all to remember it came about from merely daring to suggest, right after that brief D1, that Bif/Meen was worth a single vote." Which I don't really think is true at all. Painting it as "wasn't there for a bad turbo" is also hilarious when in reality Merk just contributed nothing Day 1. Lol at patting yourself on the back for it. No votes, not a single comment on who's scum, nothing. Let's also remember that what Merk claimed to be "his" case at the very least started secondhand: b-minus1 posted:I don’t like how meen buried his rf vote in the middle of his thoughts merk posted:I think this is the best thought on the RF run up yesterday that I have seen so far. (Not that I even agree with saying "that's the worst vote" there tbh. You know what this is? Ribbing meen over Formatting. A simple press of enter and that post looks entirely reasonable as a "I will vote this person - (space) - also I think these and those are scummy too". Here, I'll even showcase it: Ignatius M. Meen posted:I'll volunteer! late since I saw you're already going for merk tonight but hey! that probably increases the chance you'll visit me later merk posted:It is weird to me that you call both RF and Sand scummy, engage Sand directly about it, but never vote either of them. I don't agree that you did what you said you did in the last post. This, I can agree with. But let's keep this post in mind for later. merk posted:I guess I don't really agree with what b- says now that I read it. I do agree that Meen's post is scummy. Meen is spending way too many words to join a bandwagon with random thoughts thrown in around a vote that, to me - based on the way the post is constructed - reads like he doesn't really believe in it. I don't even know what this is supposed to be. This is basically overexplaining why Merk's "case" isn't a +1 vote from b-. Oh, and Merk's just actively falsely painting Meen's literal scum reads as "random thoughts" here. Just saying! Anyway, I will go into beet more specifically later, but take a look at this: merk posted:##vote Bif Doesn't this... seem like an overreaction? As far as their post history states, the only reason for this vote is "Bif's vote is weird". They chose to do this at a time where Merk was the 4th vote out of 7. That's not really a "let's see what happens here" vote anymore, is it? Merk even leaves in a justification as to go back to Meen later. At that point Merk basically goes defense mode for a bit, before going back to meen. merk posted:##vote meen merk posted:The old slow roll into a likely merk elimination barrels down the freeway. Which... I don't know how to quantify it. But like, let's consider the rest of their post history for a second. Remember how I talked about town thought processes a bit ago? I'm not seeing this in here. Merk has not visibly done ANY scumhunting themselves so far. Their meen justification is a follow up to vote to b- which they're trying to paint as not, in my opinion. It is such a weak "case" with everything else going on that Merk not commenting on like, anything else seems suspect to me. Well, except for two exceptions: merk posted:It is weird to me that you call both RF and Sand scummy, engage Sand directly about it, but never vote either of them. I don't agree that you did what you said you did in the last post. This however is quickly dropped; And then the Bif vote. Which I also find pretty suspect, more on that soon That's it. Honestly? Those two look far more like "stuff I can maybe push" angles to me given everything else that's going on. The only case where Merk actually seemingly scumhunts themselves is when they vote Bif... but doesn't it become a lot clearer with the last one? merk posted:The old slow roll into a likely merk elimination barrels down the freeway. This is a self-serving survival vote. Now, go back in their post history and look at the amount of time Merk spends defending themselves over scum hunting. Merk is primarily focused on keeping themselves alive here. They are basically doing the bare minimum to look like they're contributing on the surface. Something similar to this is bothering me about beet that I still need to put into words, so I find it doubly interesting that Merk is doing this weak rear end bif push only after bif cased Beet. Doesn't that seem familiar somehow? Like, for example, Bezzelbee Day 1 where Bif cased scum Anidav and got dogpiled for it? 
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Nov 16, 2021 18:44
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Sadly I don't have a votefinder post available for the votes at the time, but I think at the time it was like 3 votes merk 2 votes bif or something, back when merk first voted bif?
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Nov 16, 2021 18:46
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I am currently voting Bif to stay alive, yes.
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Nov 16, 2021 18:47
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Now let's look at beet and why I think they're probably scum alongside Merk: Let's just preface this with these 2 quote. hambeet posted:that movie doesn't take a whole weekend to watch. hambeet posted:yeah i just called bullshit, they said no way it'd take a whole weekend!!! This is the only time Beet interacts with Merk at all in their post history so far, by the way. Early joke phase. This quote is regarding Maerlyn: hambeet posted:Okay taking away the meta bullshit, you don’t see her vote as potentially opportunistic? Like trying to side in behind toalpaz to try it on? Note that this isn't followed up or even mentioned, seemingly entirely forgotten about. This also doesn't tell me anything about what beet thinks of Maer. Note the wording "potentially opportunistic". Are you suspicious of Maer or not at that point, Beet? This reads like throwing shade at Maer without wanting to comment to a full on scum call to me. hambeet posted:I agree with humalong, both rf and sandwolf have raised my heckles. Or hackles. I can never remember. I'm not sure what to make of this one. It's ambiguous if it's a +1 vote or nor. Apart from asking someone about an unexplained vote, this is the only proper content I can find until we get to the RF hammer D1. As solitary instances, this isn't that bad, but let's continue. hambeet posted:i wasn't serious about the where to start thing. it was a bit. This in response to Maer voting bif. But it's not the only post. Of particular interest to me is how long it takes for Beet to vote Bif despite calling them scum. hambeet posted:bif front footing it with me is super interesting. trying to ping me for 'white noise' posting on day one. hambeet posted:you didn't saying i was pinging you yesterday? day 1? about white noise? hambeet posted:*record scratch* hambeet posted:i hereby pronounce bif as rumbled scum Of particular interest to me here is that it took beet Until after humalong voted to vote Bif despite oh so sure about it. Why does this interest me? Well, I can discern 2 patterns from this. hambeet posted:Okay taking away the meta bullshit, you don’t see her vote as potentially opportunistic? Like trying to side in behind toalpaz to try it on? hambeet posted:i wonder, out in thread, if sandwolf and toalpaz are doing the 'scum out in the open' gambit, with a side of bus driver misdirect. Not the strongest pattern, but note how this was never followed up on or even kept in mind as they leisurely chat with Maerlyn the next day. hambeet posted:i wasn't serious about the where to start thing. it was a bit. Combining that with how long it took for beet to actually vote bif has the really unfortunate look of ye goode olde "Throwing poo poo at the wall and see what sticks." The difference here being, that Bif stuck, Maer, Sandwolf and Toal didn't. But that wasn't really the important bit. The important bit is the sheer aggressiveness of their defense at the expense of all else. I won't quote their entire bif case again but note that it only started after bif made their beet case. hambeet posted:i wasn't serious about the where to start thing. it was a bit. hambeet posted:okay, and now that you've demonstrated to the class bad casing, who are you really thinking of going for? Anyway, here's where I came in: hambeet posted:Content lurking and then aggressive defense? Let's just start with the content of that quote being dogshit - throwing shade at one or 2 people and then hammering does not equal content. That is content lurking and nothing else. As for how aggressive the defense is, literally just take a look at their post history and see how hard they're going after people pushing them rather than how hard they have actually scumhunted without that motivation of survival. Anyway, moving on: Yami Fenrir posted:Bif has shown more town mind than you, yes. For example they were actually able to provide reasoning pretty much immediately, where as you're just going "case bad" which is a scum thing to do. hambeet posted:wow yami rolled scum again. rip. Just completely ignoring my answer to go "Lol scum" hambeet posted:eh. it's not an omgus. i know my alignment. i have more info to decide if a case against me is coming from a reasonable basis. to see if it's made in good or bad faith. it's why i like getting cased and why i err on the side of playing ambigiously. scum try jump on that as low hanging fruit to lunch. hambeet posted:lol i didn't provide reads? i made a case on bif with reasoning which others commented on and some agreed with. i then went to bed. then i woke up and have started posting and you're trying to control this narrative of content lurking and aggressive defense because i have no other reads. no i dont have any other cases built yet only a few gut feels. i've still been trying to catch up on the 61 posts that happened while i was a sleep while engaging with you, but while you keep making bad arguments i'm gonna keep calling them out. hambeet posted:lmao yami can you stop replying to me? hambeet posted:also lol yami you're literally doin the 'you mad?!?!' thing at me about cases atm. i already said i have feels, would like time to catch up and make reads. not doing so on your time frame is not scummy, you trying to push it as such, however, is. Just look at this. It's Aggressive defense over aggressive defense. It basically comes from a "How dare you think I'm anything but town" viewpoint. Even b- got snarked at over it. The sheer VIGOR of the defense compared to the other content is what sticks out to me. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but: town mindset. Beet is quoting their bif case for how they aren't content lurking or whatever, but there are several problems: First, it doesn't actually make Bifs "Beet was mostly posting white noise day 1" case false whatsoever (Like I posted above, it's pretty much true. The white noise/content ratio is strongly skewed towards white noise and the sole vote was at hammer). Second: It's targeting someone pushing them. And no, I don't see OMGUS as an instant failure point to a case. But the problem is that Beet is literally only going hard after people pushing them. The instances where Beet did not were either not followed up on at all (maer/Sandwolf/toal, see above) or really late (bif vote). This, much like I said about Merk earlier, tells me the following: Hambeet's top priority is their own survival. Scum mindset. Beet is pretty much just attacking people pushing them as hard as he can, while doing some light shade throwing to look like they're contributing. Remember how I asked beet to provide some independent reads? This is why. The fact that they completely ignored it despite asking multiple times tells me a lot. Beet isn't actually interested in scumhunting, they're interested in discrediting people going after them. That's why their only two hard pushes were against people casing them. Because Beet is scum.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:32
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For completions sake, let's look at Maer as a comparison:Maerlyn posted:I agree with the votes on RF but don't really want to throw in there, I'm not sure that I think he's really scummy per se for that reaction, it's over the top more than I would have expected from him though. Already, they're getting bonus points for having content Day 1. But look at Maer actually explaining her thought processes here. Novel, isn't it? Maerlyn posted:I have an idea - ##vote Bif Actually calmly explaining why they're voting Bif. Maerlyn posted:Wondering how Yami knows scum are actual IRL monsters (that doesn't appear to be in the OP) Maerlyn posted:As in most games I'm having a hard time figuring Toal out but I do have a simple thought in response to this: Visibly thinking about things other than their current target! This is a town mindset. They know that their info is imperfect and are actually questioning things. It's very visible if one reads into the posts. The tone alone says everything - a curious, inquisitive one, rather than the "get the hell of me" tone Beet and the "please look anywhere else?... please?" Merk are showing.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:41
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Yami you feel like you're going really hard to protect Bif here and it's concerning. Instead of analyzing the votes on Bif, why not analyze the votes on RF who we knew was town?
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Nov 16, 2021 19:50
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Maerlyn posted:Yami you feel like you're going really hard to protect Bif here and it's concerning. Because this is an obvious scum push? Instead of focusing on the defense bit please actually think about the content of the case. But sure, I can do that.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:54
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I'm contemplating the case on merk and his responses but I'm just not feeling it but finding it difficult to put into words at the moment (I had dental work and the Novocain is starting to fade so need to pain meds to kick in soon). I think one reason is merk is being called scummy because of his vote or case on Meen but Bif has also speculated that Meen could be lurking scum, leaving that door open. Merk does feel like he's operating off his back foot, not in a playing dumb way but a dumbfounded way? I don't think that's intentional but going to reread.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:59
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I'm not going to over sell the merk thing, it is what it is. If merk is town then scum were trying to frame him by redirecting to scum sandwolf doing something incriminating expecting a tracker given the gunsmith flip.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:10
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However, and I mentioned this in masonry, merk not coming up with this explanation himself points to caught scum who was bamboozled in an odd way.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:12
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Toalpaz posted:However, and I mentioned this in masonry, merk not coming up with this explanation himself points to caught scum who was bamboozled in an odd way. And when merk does bring it up he talks about how if he weren’t merk, he’d be voting himself too
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Nov 16, 2021 20:18
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Yami Fenrir posted:Because this is an obvious scum push? Instead of focusing on the defense bit please actually think about the content of the case. idk, don't 100% believe in town bif
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Nov 16, 2021 20:21
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Short form since I'm now short on time: Bif: Retro Futurist posted:Hi. I don't like taste claiming sk and I super don't like Bifauxnen posted:Oh I only meant for me though, RF sounded like he was taking it all serious hey Bifauxnen posted:The reason is "it sucked". I only played a bit of it before I was sick of all the characters and story and also sick of wishing Main PC Whose Name I Can't Even Remember RN would put on some goddamn shoes when they are walking around in the snow. Started out over what appeared to be an odd reaction to a Day 1 joke claim. Overall post history reads fine until EOD with the "well this freaks me out" bit, which I'm... ambivalent about. It looks a bit scummy but I think the overall picture is perfectly fine, especially for Day 1. Sandwolf: Sandwolf posted:She sounds exactly like she sounds as town lmao RF what are you doing Sandwolf posted:##vote RF just can’t believe that’s a sincere reading, bad faith RF vote started on an argument that was largely based on meta, then got solidified when RF voted Sandwolf over a townread. Not the most solid vote, but I buy it for D1. Meen: Ignatius M. Meen posted:I'll volunteer! late since I saw you're already going for merk tonight but hey! that probably increases the chance you'll visit me later Meen is pretty hard to tell. The biggest reason I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt is that I believe the people pushing them to look far worse. They also noted down a bunch of names they can be called upon to explain later. ... When they stop lurking anyway. Toalpaz: I'd argue Toal actually looks the worst day 1 (Meen being a bit of a wash) ignoring beet with the stuff surrounding me questioning them about RF: Toalpaz posted:none Toalpaz posted:What? Toalpaz posted:Yami what does this have to do about voting binus. However, I do believe their Day 2 behavior doesn't mesh with what we have. Like was said before, the whole busdrive thing points towards someone wanting to mess with a town toal action. The gambit makes far more sense for a town toal to do anyway. I'd personally only revisit Toal at all if Merk flips town. --- If I had to pick one it'd actually be toal, with a side order of Sandwolf and then Bif but I don't actually believe that. I do think that town usually does not need scum "guidance" for a day 1 mislunch, so I would not be surprised if there was only 1 if not 0 scum on the lunch. Looking at why someone wasn't on the lunch is, imo, actually fairly productive as well. Which reminds me of something: merk posted:The fact that I'm going to get eliminated today when I wasn't even here for a bad turbo and my primary case of the day was to evaluate that turbo for the worst vote (Meen) "is the stupidest thing in the world, and I just want y'all to remember it came about from merely daring to suggest, right after that brief D1, that Bif/Meen was worth a single vote." Remember this? They're patting themselves on the back for not having been on the Day 1 Vote! Like, let's be honest here. RF did not help themselves in several places. Just dismissing the entire thing as a bad turbo stinks. Doesn't this look like a post from someone who knew RF was town?
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Nov 16, 2021 20:27
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Toalpaz posted:idk, don't 100% believe in town bif I don't believe bif to be Scum right now. That's what really matters to me. I believe Beet and Merk to be coordinated in pushing against bif right now to prevent a Merk lunch.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:29
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do you really think trolling you is a scum tell?
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Nov 16, 2021 20:31
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Toalpaz posted:do you really think trolling you is a scum tell? If it actively interferes with scumhunting, yes...? Duh.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:32
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Note from hotel management Tommunist has replaced out! Voodoofly will be subbing in for him.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:44
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Get whatever you can out of this day. Actually look at content tomorrow if you want to win the game. Good luck. Great setup on me scum I guess. Not even sure.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:45
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Not reading anything before this. Also not reading my role PM until end of game day. Sorry if I’m scum scum.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:47
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Votecount for Day 2  Bifauxnen (4): Maerlyn, Mr. Humalong, hambeet, Toalpaz, merk (4): Yami Fenrir, Bifauxnen, Toalpaz, Sandwolf hambeet (1): Bifauxnen, Tommunist, Ignatius M. Meen (1): b-minus1, merk, b-minus1 (0): Toalpaz, Not Voting (2): Deadmeat5150, Ignatius M. MeenWith 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is November 17th, 2021 at 7:39 a.m. EST -- that's in about 16 hours, 50 minutes. Merk and bif tied at 4. Not sure what to do right now
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Nov 16, 2021 20:49
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Oh 16 hours fine I’ll read some of the thread. Thought it was start of day 2
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Nov 16, 2021 20:50
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##unvote as it shows old me voting someone.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:51
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Anyone have brief summary of why bif and merk are scum?
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Nov 16, 2021 20:52
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Voodoofly posted:Anyone have brief summary of why bif and merk are scum? I don't know if brief is the right word for it but I have a case here: Yami Fenrir posted:snip
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Nov 16, 2021 20:54
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Yami Fenrir posted:I don't know if brief is the right word for it but I have a case here: Brief was not the right word.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:05
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Start on page 9 probably, my case on Bif is short but there's not really a fast recap
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Nov 16, 2021 21:15
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The only two cases that matter today voodoo.Toalpaz posted:I am just putting my thoughts down cause I don't really see any point in waiting for a catch on scum bus if you guys are going to discuss this. Toalpaz posted:Tbh circl is an easy sk kill. I think scum would have come do a different kill.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:23
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Voodoofly posted:Anyone have brief summary of why bif and merk are scum? I'm scum because of night actions that I do not have a reasonable explanation regarding. Given the lack of claims explaining what happened, scum setup today perfectly to get me eliminated. I'm not sure who is town or scum on the follow through, except that I believe that Bif has no case on me that she can actually explain. I believe Meen is scum. However, I can't get that even 1" off the ground. Meen has the worst vote on the RF elimination.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:27
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merk posted:I'm scum because of night actions that I do not have a reasonable explanation regarding. Given the lack of claims explaining what happened, scum setup today perfectly to get me eliminated. I'm not sure who is town or scum on the follow through, except that I believe that Bif has no case on me that she can actually explain. Hm yes, it's totally just night action bingo and this massive case ~doesn't exist~
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Nov 16, 2021 21:28
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Like at this point I feel like I'm just a broken record but misrepresenting pushes on them is also a scum thing...
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Nov 16, 2021 21:30
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Yami I think most people like my bingo the most. Everyone you have to specify what convinced you with your votes to prove it.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:34
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Yami Fenrir posted:Hm yes, it's totally just night action bingo and this massive case ~doesn't exist~ I honestly didn't read your case.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:34
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merk posted:I honestly didn't read your case. That's not entirely true. I skimmed the first part of it, found something where I wanted to explain myself, did so, and then didn't go back.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:35
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:53 |
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Toalpaz posted:Yami I think most people like my bingo the most. I mean I don't really care why probable scum dies as long as they die? I just feel like calling it "just night action bingo" actively weakens everything else that contributes to the push.
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Nov 16, 2021 21:37
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