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Almost done with the show, I mainly kinda hate it but it’s not enough there to actually hate. They obviously put some effort to bring the world to life. Ignoring the syndicate poo poo, there’s even some fun stuff in here! But they missed the mark so much with the characters. Cho’s Spike being the weirdest one. For being the lead I would have expected a little… more? Only way I can explain how Cho is playing this Spike is if the Spike of the anime survived that show, lived another 15 years, and is now reliving the same beats. He’s more sour and weathered, less happy go lucky even when in danger. He’s calm to the point of looking bored half the time. Even when directly dealing with Vicious and the Syndicate in the anime, Spike always started with a grin or smile. Like even when he came face to face with his shadow/past, it wasn’t enough to bring him down. Their first confrontation over the phone/sniper felt like a direct contradiction to how Spike would have dealt with Vicious. Which leads me to the next point. Holy poo poo the entirety of Vicious / Julia… what the gently caress were they thinking? These should have never been expanded from what they were. It just muddled and drained the show from whatever it had going anytime they popped on the screen. Jet I think was the only character where they successfully changed and expanded on his background while using that background to bring new stories to the show without taking away from anything else. The cop episode did a whole lot of work to give more to Jet without contradicting or taking away from who he was in the anime. The stuff with his daughter has been good. Shakir really did a fantastic job and he’s by far the best the show has. Faye was a mess as well not only in how they handled her story, but in how they’ve handled her interaction with the bebop. Ein also feels like they just didn’t bother with it outside of “here’s a corgi”. Making Ein / dogs in general a super expensive rarity when in the anime the whole point of Ein (a rather common welsh corgi not worth much at all) actually being a super rare gene modified specimen that everyone just overlooks and ignored added to the flavor that these crazy things are happening in the universe and spike and crew just stumble into them without even really understanding what they have. Few episodes to go and I can’t imagine the syndicate stuff will get better.
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Nov 29, 2021 17:26
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I thought the syndicate stuff did get a bit better in the final two episodes, but it still remains the weakest part of the show. I really hope if they do a second season they put that on back-burner and only revisit it once or twice, if at all.
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Nov 29, 2021 17:33
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Finished this and liked it by and large. I think once you divorce yourself from "it isn't the anime" it's def got its own enjoyable brand that I had fun with. I can agree that Vicious isn't a great villain as a whiny piss boy, but he kinda made good in the final third by actually being his namesake. I think the entire Julia/Spike/Vicious triangle is way way way worse this time around, but I'm not sure how you wouldn't want to expand that and make it a bigger part of the core narrative for an adaptation. I think that has to do more with some of the direction choices for the characters/script more so than expanding the back story on its own. They gave us more to chew on. but not really enough to justify what they did with it I think and then having so much time devoted to it when it felt like we could have gotten a lot less to the same effect, I dunno it's easily the most problematic component of this version. The original has way more hidden in the background for us to fill in, and clearly this show didn't want to take that approach. Sometimes it was good (Jet/Ein) sometimes it was not (Syndicate/Triangle), and some of it is has not really advanced far enough to be sure if it will be good or bad (Faye/Radical Ed). Honestly the thing I disliked the most about the series was them abandoning Ein after Peirrot hacked him. Awful to abandon a fine animal even if they're a little weird! I'll be back for more if they want to do it, and the idea of Julia, not vicious, being the big bad Spike will have to conquer at the top of the tower to resolve his past if they are gonna mirror scenes/the plot progression moving forward feels like a compelling twist to make this version separate and different/interesting in it's own way to the original. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Nov 29, 2021 |
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Nov 29, 2021 17:59
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I almost feel like they basically can’t do the original ending now. Like, why would Spike bother at this point?
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Nov 29, 2021 19:56
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Ogmius815 posted:I almost feel like they basically can’t do the original ending now. Like, why would Spike bother at this point? what possible scenario could happen where Vicious gets out of his chains alive? its not like anyone gives a poo poo to come rescue him
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Nov 29, 2021 19:58
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I hope that we can all agree to enjoy the Ein blooper reel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_k-NScZmk8
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Nov 29, 2021 22:06
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Killer robot posted:I hope that we can all agree to enjoy the Ein blooper reel. Using Bad Dog No Biscuit as the soundtrack is 
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Nov 29, 2021 22:12
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Killer robot posted:I hope that we can all agree to enjoy the Ein blooper reel. The clips at the end of them limping away and Ein just trodding off directly towards the camera are beautiful. Show redeemed.
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Nov 29, 2021 22:31
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Just coming back to this bit about using Australian sound stages, because it makes so much sense now that I kept hearing ghosts of Aussie accents and thought I was going mad. I mean it was filmed in New Zealand.
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Nov 29, 2021 23:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaI8vjriSVE Watching this video, I can definitely see how Kanno's mannerisms inspired Ed in the anime. Now I'm not saying Eden Perkins should actively shadow Kanno to find a way to channel that, but I'm not not saying it. And returning to Ein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml4QlAmogxA
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Nov 29, 2021 23:19
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I think the weirdest thing about dour humorless Spike is that John Cho is most famous for being a comic actor; the grim performance must be a deliberate creative choice by the director/writers for some unholy reason. Cho was unfamiliar with the series before landing the part and in some ways I think that’s a good thing; Steve Blum’s performance is so iconic that it’s literally difficult to imagine other ways to deliver the lines; so whatever we’re getting from Cho is organic and not an imitation. otoh Shakir is very definitely doing an imitation and it’s great so maybe a Blum impersonation would have worked 
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Nov 30, 2021 06:05
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Xibanya posted:Cho was unfamiliar with the series before landing the part and in some ways I think that’s a good thing; Steve Blum’s performance is so iconic that it’s literally difficult to imagine other ways to deliver the lines; so whatever we’re getting from Cho is organic and not an imitation. otoh Shakir is very definitely doing an imitation and it’s great so maybe a Blum impersonation would have worked You're arguing that Cho never watched the show during pre-production? That's possible, but that seems unlikely tbh -- I suspect all the leads were told to watch the show so that they could do all the media puff piece stuff and do fan appeasing stuff during filming. I also contest the idea that Spike's meant to be humourless -- I've only seen the first three episodes, and the character gets slapstick (the gag were he falls between the two breasts on the signage), sardonic banter (a lot of the repartee with Jet) and just silly in-character gags, like when he offers Jet the obviously hosed up doll.
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Nov 30, 2021 07:43
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Open Source Idiom posted:You're arguing that Cho never watched the show during pre-production? No I’m arguing he hasn’t seen the anime 20 times like the rest of us. Although it’s possible he hasn’t seen the anime because in that Wired interview-via-top-search video he says he’s never heard of Spike having a false eye and that comes up memorably in the anime at least a handful of times.
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Nov 30, 2021 08:07
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This adaptation sucked in the exact same way the Witcher adaptation sucked: the showrunner thought to themselves "hey, people like these other, non-main, characters, right? Let's spend literally a third to one half of the screen time focused on them. Oh and let's make their contribution to the story just the dullest possible poo poo. Just reallllly dig deep here guys, I want to fall asleep when I'm watching them." There were about 3 good episodes in this that I wish we could have more of, and anything focusing on the main 3 cast was generally pretty decent. I absolutely hated literally every second Julia and/or Vicious were on screen. It was just offensively bad. Different casting choices here maybe could have salvaged it but I'm not positive. Maybe get someone whose face isn't 80% collagen for Julia. First episode was a pretty bad first impression, and I wasn't feeling too hopeful about the show in general, but it got a little better over the next few eps after, and took a massive nosedive in quality during the 'brain scratch' vr goggles ep. Just nonsensical plot and direction, and above all just extremely BORING. It is the first time that I can recall alt-tabbing out of a show I was sitting down to watch to check my email to help pass the time. Jet was great. I actually liked the banter and 'team building' with Faye/Spike (and loved the payoff of spike having to bite into a loofah on a stick during his burn treatment), but I also felt that John Cho was playing this version of spike as a sort of depressed/bored instead of fatalistic while also being overly cheery in the face of danger. Faye was a whole different character but it worked well enough. In the end though kinda feels like Spike isn't even the main character of the show anymore.
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Nov 30, 2021 10:59
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Episode 10 stuff: Spike getting improvised tonfa in the fight against Vicious was pretty cool. Using the samurai duel sting when they're sizing each other up was groan inducing.
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Nov 30, 2021 12:43
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Xibanya posted:No I’m arguing he hasn’t seen the anime 20 times like the rest of us. in an interview he said he'd never watched it until he was up for the part of Spike
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Nov 30, 2021 13:33
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the dog was the worst part of the adaptation. absolutely ruined Ein's character. Killer robot posted:I hope that we can all agree to enjoy the Ein blooper reel. look at this stupid fuckin dog...
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Nov 30, 2021 19:16
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 ............. gently caress you!
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Nov 30, 2021 19:18
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Dongicus posted:
Oh it's a Matrix callback, now I see.
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Dec 1, 2021 01:01
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Just finished the series and I quite enjoyed it. I didn't go in expecting the anime, I went in expecting something which drew from it, and that's what I got. It had its flaws, but all in all, was a worthwhile way to spend 10 hours of my life. The only thing I didn't like was moving Vicious from the force of nature he was in the anime to a spoiled sadistic immature bully. It's like Netflix decided, "No you don't get a truly evil man, you can't handle that. Have this manchild with the Jim Carrey expressions instead." EDIT: Oh, and the syndicate lady in the final episode telling Julia to 'find him' and then doing just about the stupidest loving thing she could possibly do - trying to garotte a guy driving a car while no one was wearing seatbelts. Just tell him, "Stop here" then loving shoot the guys in the front seat. We know she had a gun, because she handed it to Julia after the crash. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 13:35
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I ended up enjoying the show enough (like 7/10ish), but yeah, the Vicious and Julia stuff reminded me of Iron Fist season 1 when they kept cutting away to the evil brother/sister storyline and their stupid father.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:41
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I try not to think about Iron Fist. One of the worst shows I have ever watched - and I made it through every single episode of Dexter.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:46
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I try not to think about Iron Fist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Buck He was the showrunner in the bad seasons of Dexter, then the first season of Iron Fist and Inhumans (all trash). BTW, I think the second season of Iron Fist was better (raised to mediocre/bad status) because he wasn't running it.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:55
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Iron Fist was terrible but the best part imo was Ward the brother trying to run the company while dealing with his secretly-not-dead psychopath super villain father, I’d watch a whole show about that and throw Danny Rand completely in the trash. Thanks for resurfacing the trauma of watching that show. Cowboy Bebop live action was much better than that, not great, but watchable. Vicious is the worst part, but he’s actually kind of captivating to watch in the same way it’s fun to watch a trainwreck. They should have just cast John Noble as Vicious, obviously they don’t care about age for anyone else. Cowards.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:21
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I think you meant to say Jason Isaacs, friend
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Dec 1, 2021 15:26
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The bad guy from The Patriot? Hell yeah I’m in
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Dec 1, 2021 15:29
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Alternatively, bring back Keanu and dye his hair.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:40
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One truly good moment from the show was right at the very end, when Kimmie's parents come for her. Not a single word spoken. And none needed to be. You know Jet is out of his daughter's life forever now. No coming back.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:06
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The more I sit on it, the more I appreciate the Vicious actor, in a b-movie sense. The guy loving went for it. It was not good, but he's putting his all into his eyeballs and gritted teeth. One might say the man is acting... viciously.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:08
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The World Inferno posted:The more I sit on it, the more I appreciate the Vicious actor, in a b-movie sense. The guy loving went for it. It was not good, but he's putting his all into his eyeballs and gritted teeth. One might say the man is acting... viciously. Yeah, for better or worse he's definitely going straight for the bulging psychotic affect of the Vicious from the original. One episode to go myself and I think it's kinda working, despite how ill-advised it seemed at the beginning of the season.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:13
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Yeah, for better or worse he's definitely going straight for the bulging psychotic affect of the Vicious from the original. vicious didn’t act that way in the original, except for the ten seconds prior to pitching spike out a window. for most of his screen time he had all the emotional affect of a corpse there’s a quiet melancholy in most of the anime’s interactions (notable exceptions like Ed aside) that the Netflix series totally ignores in favor of either slapstick or having the actors screech their lines like they’re extras in a Lifetime original
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Dec 1, 2021 16:39
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I liked Vicious a lot more in the live action, there was nothing to him in the anime. The actor does a great job.
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Dec 1, 2021 16:53
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the live action adaptation is really fun if you ignore episodes 1 and 9-10 since I just really enjoy campy shlock the actual original cowboy bebop (which I just rewatched after watching the live action) is a lot more fast paced with its shorter run-times, fun, but not really all that campy outside of a few awkward dubbing lines
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Dec 1, 2021 16:58
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Oxxidation posted:vicious didn’t act that way in the original, except for the ten seconds prior to pitching spike out a window. for most of his screen time he had all the emotional affect of a corpse Hah, that's a good point. Looking at the other scenes now and maybe there's a reason I don't have any other image of Vicious's affect, beyond various dialogue lines I'd rather forget.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:45
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C-SPAN Caller posted:the actual original cowboy bebop (which I just rewatched after watching the live action) is a lot more fast paced with its shorter run-times, fun, but not really all that campy outside of a few awkward dubbing lines Nah, the anime is quite camp. A bunch of the names, Faye's outfit, the plots where the gang fights killer clowns, or the devil, or mouldy food in an Alien pastiche. There's an episode about a crime momma who turns people into monkeys.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:54
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Open Source Idiom posted:Nah, the anime is quite camp. A bunch of the names, Faye's outfit, the plots where the gang fights killer clowns, or the devil, or mouldy food in an Alien pastiche. There's an episode about a crime momma who turns people into monkeys. None of those things are camp. ....I don't actually know if you know what camp means. There's nothing ironic about the stupidity at work in Bebop, the anime. It's just silly outright for silliness' sake. It leans more slapstick than camp or kitsch. With the occasional bit of a gut punch, like Faye's ridiculous outfit being very much ridiculous because she's trying to play a role her brain damage leaves her unable to really understand. But either way it's certainly not the tv show, who's comedy style appears to be "I heard of comedy once, years ago, from a book in a language I don't understand.".
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Dec 1, 2021 19:06
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Open Source Idiom posted:Nah, the anime is quite camp. A bunch of the names, Faye's outfit, the plots where the gang fights killer clowns, or the devil, or mouldy food in an Alien pastiche. There's an episode about a crime momma who turns people into monkeys. The anime, I feel, plays these straight though. There's a sincerity to the original anime that isn't in the Netflix adaptation.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:07
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Camp is many things, and comes in many shades, but if you can't describe something without someone thinking you're taking the piss, then it's camp. Naming your show's sole black lead "Jett Black" is, IMO, camp. A good rule of thumb is asking whether it's something that could happen in a Ryan Murphy show, and that definitely is. Mordiceius posted:The anime, I feel, plays these straight though. There's a sincerity to the original anime that isn't in the Netflix adaptation. Sontag argued that camp can often be deeply sincere in its aims; it's conjured in parasocial spaces as much as it can be intentionally injected into a text (though I remember her downplaying this idea in her writing). Ed Wood is a good example of someone who was achingly sincere, and yet produced deeply camp art. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:49
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JazzFlight posted:LOL and it's all because of Scott Buck: Scorched Spitz posted:Alternatively, bring back Keanu and dye his hair.
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Dec 1, 2021 20:59
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Open Source Idiom posted:Camp is many things, and comes in many shades, but if you can't describe something without someone thinking you're taking the piss, then it's camp. Naming your show's sole black lead "Jett Black" is, IMO, camp.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:14
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