Linux: vim isn't moe

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: vim isn't moe

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

like, I'm still lol'ing at that post

saying that putting an app in docker is making it more complex to operate because it's an extra dependency is like saying that putting your groceries in a bag makes them harder to take home because you bought an extra item

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:59

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:07

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

NihilCredo posted:

like, I'm still lol'ing at that post

saying that putting an app in docker is making it more complex to operate because it's an extra dependency is like saying that putting your groceries in a bag makes them harder to take home because you bought an extra item

I put all of the sand directly on the ground because a box for the sand is an extra item.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:00

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Use podman not docker op.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:14

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Then you can manage those pesky dependencies with podman auto-update !!!

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:15

Mr. Crow: May 22, 2008; Snap City mayor for life

Or not I stopped caring about dependencies 6 years ago :laugh:

# ? Dec 1, 2021 21:17

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

is this the modern equivalent of people complaining about how many kilobytes of disk an executable uses?

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:38

Armitag3: Mar 15, 2020; Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.

I hate docker because it slurps up battery on my mac dev machine like some posters' mommas

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:42

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

i hate docker too, and don't even bother having very specific reasons. but obviously it basically one-stop solves deployment/dependencies.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 22:46

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Nomnom Cookie posted:

real alternatives offered by real yospos posters:
* simply do not have more than 3 EC2 instances
* docker swarm
* bake an AMI for each app and run everything in ASGs
* have a single mission critical server that is never allowed to have even a minute of downtime, even for a kernel update

might as well throw in serverless

# ? Dec 1, 2021 23:07

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

oldie but goodie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI

And the cloud was just called "time sharing".

# ? Dec 1, 2021 23:08

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

Nomnom Cookie posted:

can you not mount a volume into multiple dockers using compose? its trivial with kubernetes (i am not suggesting using kubernetes)

Thanks all, I only just noticed this was an option, and also it can be read-only as a bonus.

I'm mixing between different source images for each container, most are simply batch processing and presenting processed content out of memory, the end user also being async stale-while-revalidate. The NGINX container is the only one significantly doing anything, so comparisons can be made.

# ? Dec 2, 2021 00:49

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

hobbesmaster posted:

might as well throw in serverless

you would think, but no. i don't recall a yosposter ever suggesting serverless as an alternative to kubernetes, despite it being a better choice in many circumstances. they rather pretend that whatever dumb thing their job does is the best

# ? Dec 2, 2021 04:18

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

trip report, i tried updating to latest stable, and then also experimental stuff from upstream yesterday to see how wayland works, and it's still.. not perfect. i lose some 3D performance over X (it's minimal but it's there, 5-10% in worst cases) even with latest wayland/kernel/mesa which i found rather odd because X is supposed to be this antiquated hog that makes everything run bad

variable refresh rate in 3D apps is somewhat jankier. instead of being smooth, i sometimes see it jumping between 70 and 165hz in situations where under X it smoothly follows framerate, and the resulting stutter is noticeable at times, and just disabling vsync ends up being smoother in games that can't keep a steady performance

it works *really* well with plasma, however, refreshing at 48hz when nothing's moving (monitor's lower limit) theoretically saving a bit of power (should be nice for getting a few more minutes of battery on laptops that support vrr), and syncing perfectly when something's moving for real smooth and sharp scrolling/dragging/playback/etc. firefox randomly locks up during video playback, however

also, mumble requires compiling from git for push to talk to work. supposedly gonna be available in 1.4 release but who knows when the hell that is. discord push to talk flat out doesn't work, i worked around this by setting a plasma hotkey to run a script that toggles my mic on/off lol

lastly, none of F13-F24 keys work, lmfao. they show up correctly in libinput debug-events, but do not get passed through to desktop/apps for some reason, and show up in xev as 0 byte events. i use them as an easy "this key is definitely not already hotkeyed to poo poo in bad apps that don't allow remapping" to easily do non-conflicting desktop hotkeys, so it's very much a dealbreaker for now

i restored back my plain debian 11 and i'm staying on X for now, but it's good to see some progress is being made at least, though i don't yet see any reason to switch on a non-laptop

# ? Dec 2, 2021 06:42

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

SYSV Fanfic posted:

And the cloud was just called "time sharing".

a time shared butt

# ? Dec 2, 2021 14:08

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

tfw you have a list of codes in a text file and you want to find all files that contain any of them, so you do:

Bash code:

cat barcodes.txt | tr '\n' '|' | head -c -1 | xargs -i grep -Elr '{}' .

and you feel all greybeardy and wizardy then realized you could have just done

Bash code:

grep -lr -f barcodes.txt .

# ? Dec 2, 2021 15:42

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

This morning, despite their promises, IT shut off the NetExtender VPN. My entire team now can�t use docker for development and many of them were denied their request for the new Cisco VPN because they�re contractors. What a mess lol.

# ? Dec 2, 2021 17:09

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

NihilCredo posted:

tfw you have a list of codes in a text file and you want to find all files that contain any of them, so you do:
Bash code:
cat barcodes.txt | tr '\n' '|' | head -c -1 | xargs -i grep -Elr '{}' .
and you feel all greybeardy and wizardy then realized you could have just done
Bash code:
grep -lr -f barcodes.txt .

it's kind of a GNUism because GNU grep evolved a bunch of options that replicate other functionality, but it doesn't mean they have to be used - i still would've done the first way, simply because it's easier to think in terms of pipelines and small utilities for me
same thing happened to GNU ls - and both of them ended up being ported to BSD grep and BSD ls because they were so commonly used that people kept asking about them

later on, these options also started being added to speed things up - for example `find <expr> -exec grep <expr2> {} +` being used as a weird incantation of magic characters, instead of piping to xargs because it used to be faster than using piping, instead of you know making pipes faster
same weird optimization philosophy also got applied to GNU yes, so that it's incredibly fast, for no easily ascertainable reason

long options are also a GNUism and i seem to recall that they were originally supposed to be used only for scripting - the idea being that it's easier to read the script if you know what's being done, but then what's the point of ~~manual pages~~GNU info?

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 2, 2021

# ? Dec 2, 2021 19:21

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it's kind of a GNUism because GNU grep evolved a bunch of options that replicate other functionality, but it doesn't mean they have to be used - i still would've done the first way, simply because it's easier to think in terms of pipelines and small utilities for me
same thing happened to GNU ls - and both of them ended up being ported to BSD grep and BSD ls because they were so commonly used that people kept asking about them

later on, these options also started being added to speed things up - for example `find <expr> -exec grep <expr2> {} +` being used as a weird incantation of magic characters, instead of piping to xargs because it used to be faster than using piping, instead of you know making pipes faster
same weird optimization philosophy also got applied to GNU yes, so that it's incredibly fast, for no easily ascertainable reason

long options are also a GNUism and i seem to recall that they were originally supposed to be used only for scripting - the idea being that it's easier to read the script if you know what's being done, but then what's the point of ~~manual pages~~GNU info?

-f is posix, op

# ? Dec 2, 2021 19:25

mystes: May 31, 2006

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it's kind of a GNUism because GNU grep evolved a bunch of options that replicate other functionality, but it doesn't mean they have to be used - i still would've done the first way, simply because it's easier to think in terms of pipelines and small utilities for me
same thing happened to GNU ls - and both of them ended up being ported to BSD grep and BSD ls because they were so commonly used that people kept asking about them

later on, these options also started being added to speed things up - for example `find <expr> -exec grep <expr2> {} +` being used as a weird incantation of magic characters, instead of piping to xargs because it used to be faster than using piping, instead of you know making pipes faster
same weird optimization philosophy also got applied to GNU yes, so that it's incredibly fast, for no easily ascertainable reason

long options are also a GNUism and i seem to recall that they were originally supposed to be used only for scripting - the idea being that it's easier to read the script if you know what's being done, but then what's the point of ~~manual pages~~GNU info?

The bsd thread is over there in the basement somewhere

# ? Dec 2, 2021 19:30

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

mawarannahr posted:

-f is posix, op

small utilities and pipelines aren't a posix thing, it's a unix principle
-r doesn't exist and i'm pretty sure the behaviour of -l is subtly different

# ? Dec 2, 2021 20:27

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Nomnom Cookie posted:

real alternatives offered by real yospos posters:
* simply do not have more than 3 EC2 instances
* docker swarm
* bake an AMI for each app and run everything in ASGs
* have a single mission critical server that is never allowed to have even a minute of downtime, even for a kernel update

what about ecs precious

# ? Dec 4, 2021 02:22

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

NihilCredo posted:

like, I'm still lol'ing at that post

saying that putting an app in docker is making it more complex to operate because it's an extra dependency is like saying that putting your groceries in a bag makes them harder to take home because you bought an extra item

this is a great analogy :tipshat:

# ? Dec 4, 2021 02:24

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Progressive JPEG posted:

is this the modern equivalent of people complaining about how many kilobytes of disk an executable uses?

no, that�s people complaining about javascript while spending 12 hours a day using apps built in it

# ? Dec 4, 2021 02:25

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Gentle Autist posted:

what about ecs precious

right? but no one has ever said to me "don't use eks, ecs is fine" in yospos, or anything similar. there are very good alternatives to kubernetes and yet the people who are loudest about it sucking only ever suggest utterly terrible things instead

# ? Dec 4, 2021 04:40

psiox: Oct 15, 2001; Babylon 5 Street Team

ecs is absolutely fine

unless you want to spend vc money on the jobs program that is Kubernetes

# ? Dec 4, 2021 05:26

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Nomnom Cookie posted:

right? but no one has ever said to me "don't use eks, ecs is fine" in yospos, or anything similar. there are very good alternatives to kubernetes and yet the people who are loudest about it sucking only ever suggest utterly terrible things instead

i work for aws and tell people this but I would would I

I�m also reluctant to run down Kubernetes too much to customers because I don�t want to appear like rear end in a top hat vendor guy shilling my own companies products but I do try to qualify why they are considering k8s if asked. it�s hard to push back against that tide

# ? Dec 4, 2021 11:30

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

it's kind of a GNUism because GNU grep evolved a bunch of options that replicate other functionality, but it doesn't mean they have to be used - i still would've done the first way, simply because it's easier to think in terms of pipelines and small utilities for me
same thing happened to GNU ls - and both of them ended up being ported to BSD grep and BSD ls because they were so commonly used that people kept asking about them

later on, these options also started being added to speed things up - for example `find <expr> -exec grep <expr2> {} +` being used as a weird incantation of magic characters, instead of piping to xargs because it used to be faster than using piping, instead of you know making pipes faster
same weird optimization philosophy also got applied to GNU yes, so that it's incredibly fast, for no easily ascertainable reason

long options are also a GNUism and i seem to recall that they were originally supposed to be used only for scripting - the idea being that it's easier to read the script if you know what's being done, but then what's the point of ~~manual pages~~GNU info?

thats all good stuff

# ? Dec 4, 2021 16:50

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Gentle Autist posted:

i work for aws and tell people this but I would would I

I�m also reluctant to run down Kubernetes too much to customers because I don�t want to appear like rear end in a top hat vendor guy shilling my own companies products but I do try to qualify why they are considering k8s if asked. it�s hard to push back against that tide

if anything, adopting k8s is gonna lead to higher ec2 spend from all the daemonsets you need to make a functional cluster lmao. isnt ecs a no-additional-charge control plane?

# ? Dec 4, 2021 17:49

Zam Wesell: Mar 22, 2009; [Zam is suddenly shot in the neck by a toxic dart; Anakin and Obi-Wan see a "rocket-man" take off and fly away, and Zam dies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtsglXhbxno

kill me

# ? Dec 4, 2021 18:59

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

We should unironically have a bsd thread.

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:00

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

I have made the bsd thread

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986916

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:02

mystes: May 31, 2006

AnimeIsTrash posted:

I have made the bsd thread

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986916

Thank you, BSD posts definitely deserve their own thread, so you have done a public service.

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:03

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

I don't have particularly strong opinion about BSD but I think it's interesting reading the posts of people who do. :shrug:

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:12

Last Chance: Dec 31, 2004

Zam Wesell posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtsglXhbxno

kill me

mods? can we get a ban ?

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:23

Rufus Ping: Dec 27, 2006; I'm a Friend of Rodney Nano

Last Chance posted:

mods? can we get a ban ?

Wow. Hostile gatekeeping and toxic reaction much. This does NOT reflect well on the Linux community

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:52

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Nomnom Cookie posted:

if anything, adopting k8s is gonna lead to higher ec2 spend from all the daemonsets you need to make a functional cluster lmao. isnt ecs a no-additional-charge control plane?

yeah it is. You can use fargate too and gently caress off all that ec2 management entirely

We do have EKS which is managed k8s, it�s $72 a month per cluster, which includes the cost of the control plane nodes.

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:55

Tankakern: Jul 25, 2007

Last Chance posted:

mods? can we get a ban ?

# ? Dec 4, 2021 19:57

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Rufus Ping posted:

Wow. Hostile gatekeeping and toxic reaction much. This does NOT reflect well on the Linux community

We're gonna have this copypasta for as long as we've had the BSD is dead copypasta. :allears:

# ? Dec 4, 2021 20:26

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

fargate on ECS is really great. the most attractive thing that k8s has over it for boring scenarios (imo) is being able to run a slightly more accurate local infra setup, but apparently localstack can help even with that.

# ? Dec 4, 2021 20:33

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 23:07

Zam Wesell: Mar 22, 2009; [Zam is suddenly shot in the neck by a toxic dart; Anakin and Obi-Wan see a "rocket-man" take off and fly away, and Zam dies]

Rufus Ping posted:

Wow. Hostile gatekeeping and toxic reaction much. This does NOT reflect well on the Linux community

# ? Dec 4, 2021 20:40

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