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signalnoise posted:I am interested to know the thread's thoughts on that. I could see explaining the difficulty with communication as just being this constantly shifting set of rules, and once I know the rules, it's not hard to follow them, but the problem is just in never being told the rules. Explaining it to people as "everyone else got to learn the game before we started, but I have to learn the game as we're playing it" feels somewhat accurate to me. How about you? Yep, I had the same realization a while back, in tandem with realizing I get along best with people where there’s an expectation that we’re not on the same page culturally. For background, I was born and raised in the States to Vietnamese refugees and grew up in predominantly Chicano areas. White Americans and Vietnamese Americans (in aggregate, not individually) expect me to know the rules of interactions within their groups, but I don’t have any issues with other groups. There’s no expectation I behave according to their rules so I have time to figure something out. I’ve noticed a similar thing with gender too; I’m a woman that has always gotten along more with men and the autistic men I know tend to have more woman friends. There’s intragender expectations that are hard for us but won’t be noticed by other genders (or if noticed, no one cares as much).
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Nov 27, 2021 02:21
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:the autistic men I know tend to have more woman friends. There’s intragender expectations that are hard for us but won’t be noticed by other genders (or if noticed, no one cares as much) Oh poo poo, I think this holds for me too. I think I tend to get along better with women than men when it comes to meeting someone for the first time if it's face to face, at least outside obligatory social situations
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Nov 27, 2021 06:25
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He *does* love aquariums, but I’d want him to be a little older to reduce the risk of a tipover or other accident with it. The DIY stuff is all stuff we’ve done before with various success, but we’re looking for more working straight out of the box stuff right now. Thanks for the ideas! 
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Nov 27, 2021 14:54
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signalnoise posted:I recently had a neat interaction with someone who was really into poetry and wanted my view of poetry from the perspective of someone with autism, because their understanding was that people with autism like "denotation and literalism". Keep in mind here, this is all my personal experience, but I'd like to see if it resonates with others here. After explaining first that I don't have all the answers, people are different and I'm not some general autism representative, I went ahead and explained that for me, it's not a problem of understanding metaphor and imagery and stuff like that, it's that denotation and literalism are coping mechanisms for the problem of miscommunication. Basically, if you keep getting misunderstood, it's easy to try to fall back to denotation because that should be a pre-established common ground. We tried an exercise with me writing poetry, but I just couldn't get anything out in that classic poetry style. This changed once I expressed my frustration with the exercise, and was like "this just isn't my style, I can do some other kind of poetry like rap lyrics or something but not this". Finally, they made a very direct request regarding what they were looking for: 3 concise sentences with no wasted words, trying to express as much meaning as possible through those words by using imagery and metaphor, and without making a rhyme or anything like that. Just 3 sentences. With those clear instructions, I made something that they said was beautiful, like really impressive. I'd def agree from my perspective on the fall back. It really shouldn't be hard to directly communicate but even when being direct and literal people seem to try to infer things and it pisses me right off. I hate concise statements I make being followed with "what do you mean?"... I loving said what I meant. things like 'I don't care' especially bug me when people try to read into it.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:17
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signalnoise posted:I am interested to know the thread's thoughts on that. I could see explaining the difficulty with communication as just being this constantly shifting set of rules, and once I know the rules, it's not hard to follow them, but the problem is just in never being told the rules. Explaining it to people as "everyone else got to learn the game before we started, but I have to learn the game as we're playing it" feels somewhat accurate to me. How about you? I think my experience mostly agrees with yours. I get the sense that the "very literal, doesn't understand metaphors or figures of speech" thing is based on the behaviors of a limited subset of autistic people. Like a lot of late-diagnosed folks, I was a very early and eager reader, and fascinated with words and language. In addition to being a great, mostly-socially-acceptable supply of stimulation for my also-undiagnosed ADHD, I think reading everything on the same library shelf as Diana Wynne Jones also taught me a lot about social interactions and sarcasm and stuff. At least, enough to pass as "just" awkward and quiet. But I know there's still stuff I miss, and so literalism is a safe backup option if I'm not sure what someone means, if I'm sufficiently stressed that I start having trouble with language, or if it's a sensitive topic where I don't want to risk any misunderstanding. The real joy is that metaphor and sarcasm and whatnot aren't really a single communication skill, they're more like a set of tools that are used slightly differently depending on the context and the cultural environment, and each new group of people requires time to adjust before you can be confident about how literal they're being about something.
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Nov 30, 2021 15:31
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Yes that is very relatable. I saw a thread on twitter once that pointed out that feeling compelled to point out double meanings is also an autistic trait and that was mega-relatable. I think it's common for us to be wired to notice ambiguity in language and feel weird about it, but for some of us that manifests in compulsive punning!
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Nov 30, 2021 15:47
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Organza Quiz posted:but for some of us that manifests in compulsive punning! A friend of mine has called my sense of humor "the constant entendre"
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Nov 30, 2021 17:38
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I don't think a lot of neurotypicals appreciate how many of us have a dry, sarcastic sense of humor.
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Nov 30, 2021 20:47
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nesamdoom posted:I'd def agree from my perspective on the fall back. It really shouldn't be hard to directly communicate but even when being direct and literal people seem to try to infer things and it pisses me right off. I hate concise statements I make being followed with "what do you mean?"... I loving said what I meant. things like 'I don't care' especially bug me when people try to read into it. Quorum posted:I think my experience mostly agrees with yours. I get the sense that the "very literal, doesn't understand metaphors or figures of speech" thing is based on the behaviors of a limited subset of autistic people. Like a lot of late-diagnosed folks, I was a very early and eager reader, and fascinated with words and language. In addition to being a great, mostly-socially-acceptable supply of stimulation for my also-undiagnosed ADHD, I think reading everything on the same library shelf as Diana Wynne Jones also taught me a lot about social interactions and sarcasm and stuff. At least, enough to pass as "just" awkward and quiet. But I know there's still stuff I miss, and so literalism is a safe backup option if I'm not sure what someone means, if I'm sufficiently stressed that I start having trouble with language, or if it's a sensitive topic where I don't want to risk any misunderstanding. The real joy is that metaphor and sarcasm and whatnot aren't really a single communication skill, they're more like a set of tools that are used slightly differently depending on the context and the cultural environment, and each new group of people requires time to adjust before you can be confident about how literal they're being about something. I was thinking more about these posts and I think maybe the difficulty with communication has also directed me into my love of aphorisms. I really love aphorisms, especially when they can convey something in a way that starts with a kind of metaphor that people can see as poetic, and I find that it directs people to look for hidden meaning in the metaphor, rather than where it doesn't exist. However, I also recognize that when I use it too much, it annoys people. An example of metaphor I used yesterday with friends for a discussion of a friend's personal issue of being overly pessimistic and cynical was "squinting too hard when reading between the lines" to convey that the friend would often get wrapped up in looking for something that may or may not be intended, but allowing himself to bend it until it became suspicious. An aphorism of my own that I've had positive feedback with is "burdens are more easily carried on our backs than in our hands" to convey that bad memories are something we can't simply let go of, but if we properly manage them, they don't have to be a constant concern. I also tested really high when it came to connecting concepts though, so I think it's likely this is just a way of coping that suits me particularly well. If anyone is interested in that kind of stuff, I recommend a book of musings by Joseph Joubert that were published posthumously and later translated by Henry Attwell, which are just sort of a collection of his personal notes found after his death. They're not all winners in terms of content in my opinion, because a significant portion of it reflects a zeitgeist of France in the mid to late 1700s, but there are some really stellar ones in there. Examples include The morality of some folks is all in a piece; it is a stuff out of which they never shape themselves a garment. The guidance of our mind is of more importance than its progress. Words, like glass, darken whatever they do not help us to see. We may convince others by our arguments; but we can only persuade them by their own. We should be able to enter into other people's ideas and to withdraw from them again; just as we should know how to relinquish our own ideas, and again resume them. If you're interested in that kind of language, here's a link that should be okay because it's loving old as poo poo https://archive.org/details/pensesjoubert00joubgoog/page/n12/mode/2up
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Dec 1, 2021 00:57
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:I’ve noticed a similar thing with gender too; I’m a woman that has always gotten along more with men and the autistic men I know tend to have more woman friends. There’s intragender expectations that are hard for us but won’t be noticed by other genders (or if noticed, no one cares as much). Well, that's an unexpected insight. I just assumed it was an autistic tendency to be trans or trans-adjacent, but on reflection this probably contributes as well
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Dec 3, 2021 19:15
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Interestingly I think there has now been research showing that autistic people aren't inherently more likely to be trans than the general population, we are just more likely to both realise it and do something about it due to being less influenced by the people around us. Don't know how they'd test for something like that but it seemed true to me so it must be right!
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Dec 4, 2021 02:20
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Today someone was complaining to me about someone I didn't know and who had no impact on my life, but I had forgotten what the complaint was about really, and had nothing of value to contribute to the discussion. To be honest, I'd stopped paying attention, but a response was expected as if I had been listening. So I responded with "What a piece of poo poo" and it was like discovering a cheat code
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Dec 6, 2021 02:08
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Scripts are great, use scripts every day The neurotypicals use them, they just don't admit it. Like, how often do you hear an honest answer to the question "How are you?" And how often do people expect that honest answer? 99% of the time you're supposed to say something like "I'm fine. How are you?"
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Dec 6, 2021 03:34
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Pththya-lyi posted:Like, how often do you hear an honest answer to the question "How are you?" And how often do people expect that honest answer? 99% of the time you're supposed to say something like "I'm fine. How are you?" Though I abuse the gently caress out of "Hey some weather today" when I need to get through an elevator ride.
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Dec 6, 2021 04:03
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edit to reply to the poster above; i like to embrace the silence, the awkard micro situations. Welcome in the uncanny valley bitch, this is my home kind of stuff I think NT's use smalltalk scripts too. It's an automated procedure though, instead of the manual labour we're stuck with Monstaland fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 09:27
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The best part about getting older is embracing the part where being an adult means you get to do whatever the gently caress you want, including even talking to randos or just standing there stonily silent. That being said, I can be charming, even ingratiating and friendly but gently caress is it exhausting. I've found that just being my normal, autistic and ADHD self is not particularly conducive to work place success, so the person I am at work and the person I am at home are basically strangers.That's why I don't have many relationships but only a few close ones.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:59
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Masking is exhausting! I like going to social events and talking to people, but I crash afterwards. In the neurodivergent breakaway republic I will one day help found, every public building will have a quiet room: low lighting, padded seating, soundproofed walls, weighted blankets, and a basket of stim toys. People will be able to duck in at any time to decompress before getting on with their days. It will also be normal at house parties for one room or corner to be set aside as the quiet room/corner. E: any other ideas for Neurotopia? I wanna hear 'em Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 22:27
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Pththya-lyi posted:Masking is exhausting! I like going to social events and talking to people, but I crash afterwards. the Amtrak quiet car is now about half of the train, and violators are punished by being thrown off the caboose, Western movie style 
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Dec 6, 2021 23:13
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In fact our train system will be the envy of the world!
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Dec 6, 2021 23:16
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Pththya-lyi posted:Scripts are great, use scripts every day I'm honest when I answer that question. Which is why a lot of the time I don't answer it because who wants to hear "I'm stuck at work and I despise my job, how the gently caress do you THINK I am?" Et Earello Endorenna utulie'n. Sinome maruvan ar-Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!
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Dec 8, 2021 06:11
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Dec 8, 2021 07:26
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“I’m on the sunny side of dirt! Haw haw haw.” seems to resonate well.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:52
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Pththya-lyi posted:A guest blog post with suggested clothing and accessories for autistic people or people with hypersensitivities, I think it's neat do you think it's neat? I'm not the right person to ask about this kind of fashion, but I will absolutely keep favorite brands when it comes to particular things like having scratchy tags around the neck, anything that clings too tightly, really lots of general comfort, but if there's something that sticks out, that product is dead to me. Can't wear it, unless I know a way to fix it. For bags, sometimes this means replacing the strap. For shoes, I replace the laces with elastic laces in almost every shoe I have. I have preferred underwear, as many people do these days. I kinda feel like this is fairly typical though, like everyone should want that kind of comfort, and I don't know what the market for shirts with scratchy tags is. I'm not really sure what this article is going for because the reasons for buying the items are like 1- Thing is made of good materials 2- Thing is comfortable 3- Thing can hold other things, and you should hold things I don't really get why this is being angled as having a marketing niche with autistic people. Why is the short sleeve button down with like 7 front pockets being something to keep tics and triggers at bay? I do not understand what that has to do with autism. Like, you could accomplish this by wearing a bag, and many people do. That also allows you to change your outfit every day without replacing the items from shirt to shirt. The same standards would mean all the pants you find at stores with "tactical" in the brand URL should be marketing the same way, maybe even dropping the security marketing in some of it. I think it's neat to see attention given to the subject, but it looks more like a cash-in on the subject than a genuine contribution to discussion.
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Dec 9, 2021 07:48
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Organza Quiz posted:Interestingly I think there has now been research showing that autistic people aren't inherently more likely to be trans than the general population, we are just more likely to both realise it and do something about it due to being less influenced by the people around us. I'd kinda think it's something to do with not having the compulsion for societal standards. I think I always got along better with females just because there is less expectation, then later in my teens I had a mix of that and them wanting to get poo poo going and really it's more interesting to look at a pretty face during a conversation than talk to some dude. Still, dunno if that is sensible or if I just think it makes sense. E: signalnoise posted:I'm not the right person to ask about this kind of fashion, but I will absolutely keep favorite brands when it comes to particular things like having scratchy tags around the neck, anything that clings too tightly, really lots of general comfort, but if there's something that sticks out, that product is dead to me. I am picky as gently caress for pants/jeans. I only wear Lucky jeans kuz for some reason everything else feels rougher, doesn't bug me if I'm going to work, but I just can't be comfy unless it's those. It very well could be a psychosematic thing. nesamdoom fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 13:26
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signalnoise posted:I think it's neat to see attention given to the subject, but it looks more like a cash-in on the subject than a genuine contribution to discussion. I don't get that sense at all. This person seems like they're genuinely enthusiastic about fashion and have bought the clothing and accessories to suit their own needs and aesthetics. Unless I've missed it, they don't disclose a sponsorship on the guest post or their personal fashion blog, so I don't think there's a profit motive. I don't understand why you think something needs to be specifically advertised as an autism accommodation in order to be an autism accommodation. The product description for this weighted blanket doesn't mention autism, even though the weighted blanket was originally designed for autistic people and people with other sensory disabilities. That is because the company wants people with and without disabilities to buy blankets. Because people without disabilities are the larger demographic, they're the ones companies tend to target in their marketing. That doesn't mean that autistic people can't use weighted blankets anymore, or that anyone recommending weighted blankets to us is in the pocket of Big Weighted Blanket. It just means that weighted blankets are more accessible to us and to neurotypical people seeking stress relief. "Okay, but why use shirt pockets for personal storage and not bags?" I can think of two reasons: 1. Bags can be easily lost or stolen. This is much less true of pockets. 2. It sucks to rummage through a bag to find the one item you want, especially when you're already dysregulated. If you carry each item in its own pocket, it's much easier to find.
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Dec 11, 2021 18:56
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I'm not saying I think they are personally getting a check, I'm just saying that's the type of writing it reads like due to the way it's written. Keep in mind of course, this is all just like, my personal take and my personal view of how it's written. You like it, and that's cool, and it's good to like things, and I'm sure it comes from a good place because like you said, it isn't going through a bunch of adsense poo poo or whatever. For me, when I'm looking at something that says it's a guide, I'm expecting identified problems followed by relevant solutions, but from my perspective, I don't get that here. Like, rather than talk about the utility of pockets and suggesting some pieces that fit within that as examples, the post specifies the pieces and then has a little riff that implies a problem for the piece to solve, if that. Usually, that amounts to the piece being comfortable and functional in some way. I'd expect most clothes that are cool for autistic people would also be cool for people who aren't autistic, and in general, that kind of marketing isn't really necessary. However, you could say some items benefit autistic people particularly well, or are in greater demand by autistic people when they are aware of other items or something, and when writing a guide to those items, it pays to have more explanation. To be more to the point-Pththya-lyi posted:I don't understand why you think something needs to be specifically advertised as an autism accommodation in order to be an autism accommodation. I don't think anything needs to be specifically advertised as an autism accommodation in order to be an autism accommodation. However, when something is specifically advertised as an autism accommodation, which everything in that post is simply by being part of that post, I think there should be some better reasoning for it. I'm not really the target audience for that post though. Whether someone uses a shoulder bag, fanny pack, bandolier, or whatever else to keep their stuff in, that's whatever to me. My focus was just the writing, coming from no frame of reference other than being linked to it from here and asked if I thought it was neat, among several others. I got no ill will toward this blog poster or anything like that, seems like a cool person, I think I just want more out of an article than I'm ever going to get out of a blog post.
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Dec 11, 2021 20:02
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Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!
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Dec 12, 2021 00:19
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Pththya-lyi posted:Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! Yeah, of course! Thanks for hearing me out! Also, I think I found a form of hell. I am taking a break outside a holiday party for my wife's work right now. They rented out some high class bar/restaurant for a themed party. I am in clothes I am not used to wearing, with music that's too loud, with people I don't know. I'm being bombarded by conflicting smells because the theme is like 1920s speakeasy and the food, alcohol, and perfume is hitting in rapid fire combinations. The lights are dim, but everything is glittery. I'm sure this is great fun for a lot of people but every minute I'm in that room is white knuckle poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2021 01:09
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What do you think of Rain Man? While I've never been diagnosed, I've always thought I've had the symptoms of some manner of autism, but speaking about it has always been troubled by my mother knowing no form of autism beyond the fictional disease in Rain Man, and as I don't behave like that, well then by god I'm not autistic. Shocking thing is, my mother is a doctor.
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Dec 14, 2021 08:06
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I think The Wizard did it way better.
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Dec 14, 2021 08:16
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dustin.h posted:What do you think of Rain Man? While I've never been diagnosed, I've always thought I've had the symptoms of some manner of autism, but speaking about it has always been troubled by my mother knowing no form of autism beyond the fictional disease in Rain Man, and as I don't behave like that, well then by god I'm not autistic. A lot of people with autism are (mostly) functional people. If you want to know if you're autistic it's a good idea to get tested if you can.
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Dec 14, 2021 12:30
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Dance Officer posted:A lot of people with autism are (mostly) functional people. If you want to know if you're autistic it's a good idea to get tested if you can. Thinking that autistic people are like rain man because that's what you're shown and that's all you can see is like thinking "man no one has cats in this city" because you only see people walking their dogs
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Dec 14, 2021 12:38
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Rain Man is based off of a real person, but you have to recognize a few things too. It's a film from the late 80s, so both our own understanding of autism and how media presents it is very different. Also, K-Mart does suck, and society seems to agree given how they barely exist anymore.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:05
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I haven't seen Rain Man, but I hear there's a lot of bad stereotypes in it and that makes me not want to see it. Also Sia tried to make her movie Music "like Rain Man, but with girls," and I think the critical and audience response to that movie proves that approach doesn't fly today.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:12
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The Onion has an entire series with an actor portraying a reporter with autism. https://youtu.be/D04wb7P_v-4 Not sure if this is offensive to others on the spectrum, but I thought the sketch was very funny without a mocking tone.
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Dec 15, 2021 21:45
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Michael Falk, Autistic Reporter is great, because it centers Michael and his experience navigating the absurdities and contradictions of neurotypical society while still remaining sympathetic to the NT perspective. "Four American Troops Tragically Killed Along With 23 Afghanis" is my favorite for pointing out the hypocrisy in mourning only the war dead on "our side:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb5rHthCXoA E: I should admit I'm grading it on a curve because most creators only started focusing on providing good autistic/ND rep over the past ~5 years, and these videos were made before then. Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 15, 2021 22:10
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Pillow Armadillo posted:The Onion has an entire series with an actor portraying a reporter with autism. I think that what makes it possibly acceptable instead of just mocking is that it doesn't use a particular caricature of autism, and that it ends on a punchline. If I really think critically about the sketch, I can see the caricature get more detailed and more "severe" over the course of the sketch, working through a variety of them, but to be honest, at some points I could tell you I've met one or two of them, but as kids. My mom was an occupational therapist, and I spent a lot of time around special needs kids as a kid, and I dunno some elements were genuinely familiar, though nothing was really accurate. I think that it's got a punchline in delivering a ridiculous outcome from an increasingly ridiculous premise that seemed safe enough at first, but I'm on the fence about being offended. I admit it got a sensible chuckle from me.
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Dec 15, 2021 22:16
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Hm yeah I'm also just not sure. I think I'd like the first sketch more if it ended on him getting obsessed with coming up with a crime that's easy and quick enough to get in prison but doesn't involve hurting anyone, but then it would be hard to have as good a punchline. I think it just tips it over the edge into not great to have him not care about hurting people if it gets him what he wants, I don't think that's helpful representation. But it is also very funny as a punchline! I like the taliban one more. ITT autistic people overly seriously overanalyse a funny joke ETA okay this one is pretty great https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5ROoNT7-ZI Organza Quiz fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 01:16
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I think it hasn't aged too well, and it's going to age even worse.
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Dec 16, 2021 01:31
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