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PokeJoe posted:there isn't one OP, our country is an oligarchy so then what are people complaining about when they say the progressive caucus “gave up leverage” or whatever. unwinnable games might be stupid to play but it doesn’t really make sense to criticize any particular move someone makes in one.
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Dec 20, 2021 00:53
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idk, ask them why they're saying it. i don't think they "gave up leverage" because i think they never had any to begin with
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Dec 20, 2021 00:59
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But what these people assume is that, actually, they did have leverage!
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Dec 20, 2021 01:00
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even if you assume they had the leverage, the only thing that leverage would have been used for is to spike the infrastructure bill. it would never have gotten the votes for the biden bill
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Dec 20, 2021 01:01
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Shaggar posted:even if you assume they had the leverage, the only thing that leverage would have been used for is to spike the infrastructure bill. it would never have gotten the votes for the biden bill It 100% would have gotten the votes, because there would have been more leverage over Manchin.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:04
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he was never going to vote for the biden bill. it was doa. the leverage would have effectively spiked both bills.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:05
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Shaggar posted:he was never going to vote for the biden bill. it was doa. the leverage would have effectively spiked both bills. He would have voted for the combined bill.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:05
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Jonny 290 posted:lol didnt even think about this angle but if they keep this poo poo up by like 2032 the r's are gonna have enough votes to call a constitutional convention and well then its really all over 2032? they only need 4 more states to call a convention and uh, have you seen the polling numbers for 2022?
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Dec 20, 2021 01:07
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Fame Douglas posted:He would have voted for the combined bill. i dont think so
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Dec 20, 2021 01:07
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fart simpson posted:2032? they only need 4 more states to call a convention and uh, have you seen the polling numbers for 2022? They don't really need a convention to cement their power, just enough legislatures that can decide to disregard votes as they please. And they definitely have that already.
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Dec 20, 2021 01:13
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the thing about hostage-taking that the libs/dinos get is that you have to be willing to kill the hostage, which progressives never do
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Dec 20, 2021 02:07
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also Cory Booker got the ‘rona, gonna be an exciting couple of weeks!
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Dec 20, 2021 02:08
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kitten emergency posted:also Cory Booker got the ‘rona, gonna be an exciting couple of weeks! omicron sweeping through congress would be a good xmas present
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Dec 20, 2021 02:09
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:any rumours of the queen's death are fake news until gibbo tells us https://twitter.com/nonemorenegativ/status/1201333381289648129?s=21
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Dec 20, 2021 02:16
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Fame Douglas posted:He would have voted for the combined bill. ah ok ty this is the argument that i didn’t understand was being made
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Dec 20, 2021 02:36
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kitten emergency posted:the thing about hostage-taking that the libs/dinos get is that you have to be willing to kill the hostage, which progressives never do you have to be ruthless to win, which they just don't understand even the most outspoken, progressive dems are obsessed with  and won't go for the jugular when given the chance
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Dec 20, 2021 02:49
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The_Franz posted:you have to be ruthless to win, which they just don't understand i mean, it’s also that the progressives are the only ones who want the hostages to live in the first place. joe manchin doesn’t care whether the bills get spiked.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:34
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raminasi posted:i mean, it’s also that the progressives are the only ones who want the hostages to live in the first place. joe manchin doesn’t care whether the bills get spiked. the problem is, they aren't willing to take out the hostage takers to save the hostages
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Dec 20, 2021 03:54
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Dec 20, 2021 03:57
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The_Franz posted:the problem is, they aren't willing to take out the hostage takers to save the hostages that's a constraint of our political system, not a question of willpower within it if you think that the progressives should destroy the contemporary united states political system, well, sure, but even assuming they singlehandedly could, that's also what the right wing death cult wants, so we're kind of back to square one
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Dec 20, 2021 04:02
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raminasi posted:that's a constraint of our political system, not a question of willpower within it what im hearing is it has bipartisan support. sounds like a no brainer then
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Dec 20, 2021 04:03
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lol. I mean the second half ain't wrong
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Dec 20, 2021 04:16
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fart simpson posted:what im hearing is it has bipartisan support. sounds like a no brainer then blowing up the united states of america's federal political system could very well take out its administrative state, which could in turn end up very very very badly for anyone who relies on food stamps or interstate travel or the mail or medicine or national parks or any one of the multitude of other things that the federal government does that people largely take for granted. we have a very flawed country that is administered poorly, but it exists and is still clunking along. saying gently caress it and tearing it down has a very good chance of having very bad consequences. maybe, ultimately, we have no choice but to roll those dice, but responding to republicans' obstinance by giving them exactly what they want is not a decision i want to make lightly.
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Dec 20, 2021 04:17
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we were in deep poo poo the second Gingrich realized just stonewalling the other party from passing anything at all when they're in charge- even if it has stuff you'd like in it, works very well at delivering midterms and subsequent elections to you
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Dec 20, 2021 04:21
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raminasi posted:blowing up the united states of america's federal political system could very well take out its administrative state, which could in turn end up very very very badly for anyone who relies on food stamps or interstate travel or the mail or medicine or national parks or any one of the multitude of other things that the federal government does that people largely take for granted. we have a very flawed country that is administered poorly, but it exists and is still clunking along. saying gently caress it and tearing it down has a very good chance of having very bad consequences. maybe, ultimately, we have no choice but to roll those dice, but responding to republicans' obstinance by giving them exactly what they want is not a decision i want to make lightly. doesn’t seem like it’s your decision
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Dec 20, 2021 04:21
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also yeah people will suffer in the collapse. but it might also improve the lives of a great many non americans
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Dec 20, 2021 04:22
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lol if you think the collapse is coming because someone decides to do it
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Dec 20, 2021 04:23
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fart simpson posted:doesn’t seem like it’s your decision that's true of all the congressional fanfiction in this thread, not just mine
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Dec 20, 2021 04:28
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my congressional fan fiction is warren and booker spreading omicron around the senate and house
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Dec 20, 2021 04:32
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fart simpson posted:my congressional fan fiction is warren and booker spreading omicron around the senate and house
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Dec 20, 2021 04:33
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raminasi posted:blowing up the united states of america's federal political system could very well take out its administrative state, which could in turn end up very very very badly for anyone who relies on food stamps or interstate travel or the mail or medicine or national parks or any one of the multitude of other things that the federal government does that people largely take for granted. we have a very flawed country that is administered poorly, but it exists and is still clunking along. saying gently caress it and tearing it down has a very good chance of having very bad consequences. maybe, ultimately, we have no choice but to roll those dice, but responding to republicans' obstinance by giving them exactly what they want is not a decision i want to make lightly. the current system, generally, results in rather poor outcomes for most people but we should definitely preserve it so that president desantis can send you to jail for teaching critical race theory
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Dec 20, 2021 04:35
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https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/19/politics/stephen-breyer-gop-blockade-biden-supreme-court-pick/index.html in a 7-2 decision...
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Dec 20, 2021 04:38
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kitten emergency posted:the current system, generally, results in rather poor outcomes for most people but we should definitely preserve it so that president desantis can send you to jail for teaching critical race theory the problem i have with this line of thinking is that eliminating a bad system doesn't automatically replace it with a good one and i've never seen any concrete proposal for how we'd actually get to a good system in practice
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Dec 20, 2021 04:42
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raminasi posted:the problem i have with this line of thinking is that eliminating a bad system doesn't automatically replace it with a good one and i've never seen any concrete proposal for how we'd actually get to a good system in practice america probably can't, but taking out america might allow other places to get to good systems. thats my thought on it
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Dec 20, 2021 04:44
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kitten emergency posted:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/19/politics/stephen-breyer-gop-blockade-biden-supreme-court-pick/index.html quote:Breyer has told several people who've made unofficial efforts to push him to retire that he thinks the confirmation process shouldn't be political definitely one of the finest minds in the country, so great to have him on the highest court in the land
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Dec 20, 2021 04:45
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kitten emergency posted:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/19/politics/stephen-breyer-gop-blockade-biden-supreme-court-pick/index.html something goes here about water being wet…
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Dec 20, 2021 04:53
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kitten emergency posted:https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/19/politics/stephen-breyer-gop-blockade-biden-supreme-court-pick/index.html quote:Five Republican senators raised the stakes around Justice Stephen Breyer's retirement, telling CNN they'd oppose any likely nominee out of this White House. this is sedition, and they should be ejected from their offices.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:32
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raminasi posted:the problem i have with this line of thinking is that eliminating a bad system doesn't automatically replace it with a good one and i've never seen any concrete proposal for how we'd actually get to a good system in practice if we treated the disease you might get sick with a different, worse disease so we shouldn’t even bother
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Dec 20, 2021 05:34
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raminasi posted:blowing up the united states of america's federal political system could very well take out its administrative state, which could in turn end up very very very badly for anyone who relies on food stamps or interstate travel or the mail or medicine or national parks or any one of the multitude of other things that the federal government does that people largely take for granted. we have a very flawed country that is administered poorly, but it exists and is still clunking along. saying gently caress it and tearing it down has a very good chance of having very bad consequences. maybe, ultimately, we have no choice but to roll those dice, but responding to republicans' obstinance by giving them exactly what they want is not a decision i want to make lightly. i don't take those things for granted. they're allowing drilling for oil in national parks, the postal service was intentionally disabled with no recourse, food stamps are cut at every opportunity, medicine lmao, etc. i think they're all doing a terrible job of preserving the land and nation for the future.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:52
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Sagebrush posted:this is sedition, and they should be ejected from their offices.  if democrats could take a similar stance and weren’t such spineless cowards, the current Supreme Court situation wouldn’t be so dire
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Dec 20, 2021 06:01
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