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Which lifepath will you take?
NOMAD (I like freedom)
STREET KID (I like the city)
CORPO (I like money)
I don't like labels
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Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012


If AC odyssey managed to make it understandable for why you're going on a sprawling adventure to gently caress every consenting partner in the Greek world instead of just following the story line I am confident any dev team could do the same.

Especially when it was as easy as changing a throwaway line from weeks to "I dunno it could be months could be weeks"

homullus posted:

It's not "people getting upset at people poo poo talking it," it's an extremely online ownage treadmill, chock full of poo poo like your dumb post right here. You're not talking about the "enormity of the failure." You are simply parroting it with different, equally dumb words. I can't think of another game whose main storyline featured the slow replacement of the protagonist's identity with another; I think that's memorable and interesting. I don't care that you don't find it interesting, but you seem unhealthily invested in telling people they also shouldn't.

As was pointed out ages ago this isn't even the first poorly received game that includes your head ghost bickering at you while trying to take over your body

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Ichabod Tane
Oct 30, 2005

A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.


https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4
pretty sure this happens in MGSV (is it five?) you think you're snake / big boss / etc and are just a mook lol

HoboTech
Feb 13, 2005

Reading this with the voice in your skull.

Sedisp posted:

If AC odyssey managed to make it understandable for why you're going on a sprawling adventure to gently caress every consenting partner in the Greek world instead of just following the story line I am confident any dev team could do the same.

Especially when it was as easy as changing a throwaway line from weeks to "I dunno it could be months could be weeks"

As other people have said, the "two weeks" was a rough estimate, given with a lot of in-dialogue expressed doubt, by a character who admitted they were in over their head. That this has become the crux of people's arguments is pretty weak. It's like going to your regular general practitioner doctor with a crazy disease no one has ever seen before and him going, "Yeah it's going to kill you but I'm not sure when. Maybe two weeks but who knows".

I'll agree that the city is lacking fluff content and that the AI/combat challenge is definitely not up to par, and it's obvious ta lot of the plot never got finished, but at this point I think people are just nitpicking to keep their disdain alive.

Randal
Apr 20, 2016

not adding value on SA one post at a time

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

Imagine if this was a Daikatana thread and people got upset at people poo poo talking it. There's only so much you can do when talking about disastrous doodoo. Cyberpunk's abysmal failure and extreme backlash is an inextricable part of the conversation. The game itself is extraordinarily bland and forgettable, just like Daikatana, the context of its launch and the continued ineptitude by a dogshit company is now the overwhelming topic of discussion. This is Derek Smart poo poo, it's Peter Molyneux, Chris Roberts, etc. etc. it's more fun, revealing, and interesting to talk about the enormity of their failures than the actual products, because the products themselves are mediocre pap.

It's ok, some people are going to like things that you don't like

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Ichabod Tane posted:

pretty sure this happens in MGSV (is it five?) you think you're snake / big boss / etc and are just a mook lol

That game rules so much

Ichabod Tane
Oct 30, 2005

A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.


https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

2house2fly posted:

That game rules so much

it REALLY does lmao

when you find out you're just some dumbass loser

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012


HoboTech posted:

As other people have said, the "two weeks" was a rough estimate, given with a lot of in-dialogue expressed doubt, by a character who admitted they were in over their head. That this has become the crux of people's arguments is pretty weak. It's like going to your regular general practitioner doctor with a crazy disease no one has ever seen before and him going, "Yeah it's going to kill you but I'm not sure when. Maybe two weeks but who knows".

It's very fitting that this is the thread that it needs to be pointed out but saying "X is going to happen in Y weeks" might not be 100% accurate but those sorts of estimates are supposed to be in the ballpark. But the argument that Vic gives you a date that is just pulled out of his rear end doesn't make sense since he's been pretty upfront with V about everything. He doesn't say he doesn't know he gives you a number.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I work on the basis that the dialogue was written and recorded and put in the game for a reason, and 'weeks' is clearly chosen to imply urgency but not immediacy, so that V has a reason to take insane risks to get their cure but also won't fall dead because you do a side quest. Narratively this is the point where the game is setting out the stakes for you and there is no reason for the game to lie or mislead you at this point.

If you have actual cancer today and talk to an actual cancer doctor they will give you a prognosis in terms of days or weeks or months or years. They won't set a bloody countdown timer for you because that's just not how these things work.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Ichabod Tane posted:

hoenstly, the protag losing their identity is a common trope. here's an article about that, using other games as an example

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-03-09-how-video-game-heroes-struggle-with-their-identities

Good article about questioning identity, but not the same thing as slowly becoming a different, pre-existing person.

Sedisp posted:

As was pointed out ages ago this isn't even the first poorly received game that includes your head ghost bickering at you while trying to take over your body

What was the other game? Did the head ghost and the head host similarly converge? The game implies that becoming a "pure" AI changed Alt Cunningham n a different way than being an aggressive parasite changed Johnny.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
i keep running into this bug where cars just stop responding to forward/back commands until you blow them up and call them again, and it is both incredibly annoying and somewhat hilarious "not being able to use vehicles" is one of the bugs that never got patched

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
What system are you playing on?

I'm on PC and with 1.31 I've run into a few quest trigger bugs here and there, and a weird thing where the game randomly decides I'm in combat for reasons that aren't apparent, but otherwise it's been working well.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
PC

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

Imagine if this was a Daikatana thread and people got upset at people poo poo talking it. There's only so much you can do when talking about disastrous doodoo. Cyberpunk's abysmal failure and extreme backlash is an inextricable part of the conversation. The game itself is extraordinarily bland and forgettable, just like Daikatana, the context of its launch and the continued ineptitude by a dogshit company is now the overwhelming topic of discussion. This is Derek Smart poo poo, it's Peter Molyneux, Chris Roberts, etc. etc. it's more fun, revealing, and interesting to talk about the enormity of their failures than the actual products, because the products themselves are mediocre pap.

multiple people make this exact post more or less word for word every week ITT and they always scroll past pages of people who actually like the game to do so. this is not one of those obsessive mock threads and youre being a weirdo for constantly insisting that it is.

Farm Frenzy fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 24, 2021

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013

Also it's worth noting that vic estimates you've got "a few weeks" (please stop saying "two") but the game also takes pains to note that you and Johnny are becoming an amalgam. At what point is V 'dead'? The experience of consciousness would be continuous from V's perspective. Johnny isn't real. He's a collection of data and traits being slowly etched into your brain.

You could make the argument that V *is* dead in a matter of hours, days, weeks, or never, depending on how you define death in this case.

stratdax
Sep 14, 2006

guys help sephiroth just cast meteor but I just want to go race chocobos ~*my immersion*~ is ruined. Why would Cloud race chocobos when a giant meteor is going to crash into the planet??

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.

stratdax posted:

guys help sephiroth just cast meteor but I just want to go race chocobos ~*my immersion*~ is ruined. Why would Cloud race chocobos when a giant meteor is going to crash into the planet??

Why indeed?

Anyway, I really like the Happy Together quest. Specifically that you have to engage with the guy and relate to him, if you just try to bounce through it, it ends badly. It's a nice touch.

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner

Farm Frenzy posted:

multiple people make this exact post more or less word for word every week ITT and they always scroll past pages of people who actually like the game to do so. this is not one of those obsessive mock threads and youre being a weirdo for constantly insisting that it is.

More than that, there's also just a difference between someone wanting to talk either about how they feel the game failed, what they liked about it, or get the perspective of others on something, and a bunch of folks shitposting "lolno thats stupid and it was stupid to want to." There's a lot to discuss about the ways the game succeeds and fails, and its history of deceptive marketing, and so many other things, and a handful of people seem to have made it their mission to try and prevent that from happening.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Mendrian posted:

Also it's worth noting that vic estimates you've got "a few weeks" (please stop saying "two") but the game also takes pains to note that you and Johnny are becoming an amalgam. At what point is V 'dead'? The experience of consciousness would be continuous from V's perspective. Johnny isn't real. He's a collection of data and traits being slowly etched into your brain.

You could make the argument that V *is* dead in a matter of hours, days, weeks, or never, depending on how you define death in this case.

Also even if you do every sidequest the game pretty much does take place over a few weeks tops

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we have sealed ourselves away behind our money, growing inward, generating a seamless universe of self.
The problem isn't specifically the timeline, it's that you spend five minutes pleading with Vik to find a way to live, then the minute you're out of there you're like "Well gently caress it, time to go steal a van for Mr. Hands*", until the next time you do a main quest and V suddenly remembers they're gonna die. I brought it up as a very broad sort of complaint about the disconnect between the urgency to the character and the game play presented in open world games, which is why I also mentioned Fallout 4.




*I literally laughed out loud when i saw the name on the call

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Dec 24, 2021

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013

infernal machines posted:

The problem isn't specifically the timeline, it's that you spend five minutes pleading with Vik to find a way to live, then the minute you're out of there you're like "Well gently caress it, time to go steal a van for Mr. Hands*", until the next time you do a main quest and V suddenly remembers they're gonna die. I brought it up as a very broad sort of complaint about the disconnect between the urgency to the character and the game play presented in open world games, which is why I also mentioned Fallout 4.




*I literally laughed out loud when i saw the name on the call

Well yeah what you're talking about is a tonal disconnect between the main quest and the everything else, which I can get behind. And yeah, it's also in FO4, in much the same way: Save my baby, but also, maybe pretend to be a hammy super hero?

EDIT: A lot of people ITT are trying to frame this as some kind of pseudo-plot hole where the game says you have two weeks to live and you in fact, have much longer, and I'd say the real issue is the desperate pathos of the main quest vs the relatively comic-book-y action/dystopia of the main quest, which is, I think, a much smaller and finer critique than people are making.

Mendrian fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 24, 2021

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007

v1ld posted:

This is from many pages back, but if you're still interested in stealth the biggest enabler is the Synaptic Accelerator implant combined with pistols/Stealth/Cool. And throw in Sandevistan for more time dilation tricks as the enabling implants are mostly Reflexes-based so it goes well with Handguns.

Prioritize Reflexes to get Handguns so you can one-shot with Pistol headshots. Silenced single shot damage is more important than DPS, so the Overture is by far the best bet as it allows for silencers.

Reflexes also lets you install Synaptic Accelerator, which in turn lets you play a very active stealth style. You can creep around pretty aggressively since anything that begins to detect you will put you into slo-mo with enough time to shoot them or scuttle into cover again. This is a lot of fun.

Reflexes also has Assault Rifles under it which goes well with Sandevistan for more time dilation tricks. You get a significant damage boost while in Sandevistan mode and can go pretty crazy with the weapons of your choice.

Reflex Tuner is very good for Sandevistan builds - go loud and kill everything if stealth is broken, if you take significant damage you get slo-mo again to heal and go right on.

Kerenzikov wasn't that great in my experience. I'd use the 2 Nervous System slots for Reflex Tuner and Synaptic Accelerator instead, you don't need to stay in permanent slo-mo.

The best Sandevistan deck is the QianT MK 4 (not MK 5!) since it has the shortest cooldown: 15s (has to be a bug, which they may have since fixed). That can be reduced to 7.5s or even lower with some Heatsinks.

You don't want really long Sandevistan times since it gets boring after you've killed everything in sight. The Mk 4 is the sweet spot at 12 secs. Easily long enough.

Here's the sheet I made for what was my most fun with the game: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CWp1vz_2WXxUoF7W4VhlPdQSMAtvrreUbq2NcETZVzw/edit?usp=sharing

Some of this may have been redone in later releases. Like you can now stack crit mods, for eg.

Fool around with Synaptic Accelerator and stealth. It's really fun to get slo-mo on detection.

Thanks for this!!

Splorange
Feb 23, 2011

dyzzy posted:

Armchair game dev nonsense follows

Imagine spending half the campaign pre-Heist building V's stats/skills as a run of the mill mercenary, and then the second half involves sacrificing those allocated points bit by bit and replacing them with Johnny's build

It works because most of the perks and stats don't meaningfully impact the gameplay

I kinda like this, it's very rpg-ey. That's a word now.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

2house2fly posted:

That game rules so much

:hmmyes:

The Quarantine scene is one of those things that will haunt my memory for the rest of my life.

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !
The whole Johnny-V takeover could have been done so much better, instead of main quest triggers. Starting out with harmless stuff, like a random Johnny flashback, later V can suddenly play guitar (I know it's part of the Kerry story), additional dialogue options (this was explored with the Rogue story, but it could have been so much more - like making Smasher an actual archvillain and give him more screen time and Johnny interaction), then suddenly your handgun skill goes up and your Cool attribute gets points.

This could culminate with random missions triggering while walking around in NC and Johnny taking over, or V automatically switching to a hand cannon in combat (if V carries one).

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009

Frigate Hetman Sahaidachny
First to Fight Scuttle, First to Fall Sink


Ironslave posted:

More than that, there's also just a difference There's a lot to discuss about the ways the game succeeds and fails, and its history of deceptive marketing

it's been 700 pages and a year out from the game and the thread is named after a 7 hour long YouTube essay that some of us have even watched. Not counting the other hours long essays out there, and news articles. The thread has been through it, and has been through the discussion about the discussion about it

I think a lot of people are getting the game cheap a year out and dipping into the thread to see a similar discussion about what the game lacks. It's kinda because there isn't much depth to any part of the game besides the story.

And the game is good it's not great. The combat is generic but not bad. The graphics are nice. I've said plenty of good (and bad) but I don't want to have to post a nice thing to balance out another bug or observation I had when I'm replaying the game

Mendrian posted:

which is, I think, a much smaller and finer critique than people are making.

and this. Whoever said "STOP SAYING TWO WEEKS!!" can chill

forest spirit fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Dec 24, 2021

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

There's making a thoughtful observation and then there's just screaming wildly into the void

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Breath of the Wild is the most successful and influential open world game of the last five years and every moment you spend exploring Hyrule is another second that Zelda is tortured in spiritual agony by the dark god of chaos and that doesn’t stop Link from going snow-boarding, wind-surfing, base-jumping, and horseback riding for literally months at a time while he figures things out. If that kind of pressure doesn’t force your hand l then I don’t know why people get their knickers in a twist about V

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Bust Rodd posted:

Breath of the Wild is the most successful and influential open world game of the last five years and every moment you spend exploring Hyrule is another second that Zelda is tortured in spiritual agony by the dark god of chaos and that doesn’t stop Link from going snow-boarding, wind-surfing, base-jumping, and horseback riding for literally months at a time while he figures things out. If that kind of pressure doesn’t force your hand l then I don’t know why people get their knickers in a twist about V

To be fair, it's not Link's life that's on the line and he probably just doesn't give a poo poo about Zelda.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Sounds like an inspiring hero who I'm excited to play as

Pulcinella
Feb 15, 2019

Ichabod Tane posted:

it REALLY does lmao

when you find out you're just some dumbass loser

Love how the Metal Gear series goes full circle. The first and last games end with you hating Big Boss for lying to you.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard
Apr 5, 2012

My incredible goodposting transcends time and space but still it cannot transform the xbone into a good console.
Lipstick Apathy
It's just a game, folks. You don't win e-peen for hating things the most.

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009

Frigate Hetman Sahaidachny
First to Fight Scuttle, First to Fall Sink


cross posting from the VR thread, but if you have VR you can visit night city now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmSMe4lH4Sg

VorpX developer has released a six-dof free standalone VR mod for Cyberpunk 2077.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Is it proper stereoscopic, flat 2D projection or that meh depthmapped stuff?

--edit: Oh alternate view rendering. Neat. Too bad my main displays and my Index loving hate each other.

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !
The best ending would have been to let us betray Arasaka and shoot Hanako, Yorinobu and Hellman on top of Arasaka tower while not giving a gently caress about survival anymore. And then jack into Mikoshi, delete Saburo's engram like HAL 9000 and mock him together with Johnny, before we finally die.

Randal
Apr 20, 2016

not adding value on SA one post at a time

Hammerstein posted:

The best ending would have been to let us betray Arasaka and shoot Hanako, Yorinobu and Hellman on top of Arasaka tower while not giving a gently caress about survival anymore. And then jack into Mikoshi, delete Saburo's engram like HAL 9000 and mock him together with Johnny, before we finally die.

Yeah the ending choices felt pretty narrow. Give in to the corporation, shoot up the help, or kill yourself. Should have at least been able to assassinate the executives before killing yourself

Randal fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Dec 25, 2021

Roshnak
Jul 22, 2007

Randal posted:

Should have at least been able to assassinate the executives before killing yourself

What would that really add to the story, though?

Also maybe we should be a little more careful with ending spoilers since people are picking it up in the sales?

Hammerstein
May 6, 2005

YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

Roshnak posted:

What would that really add to the story, though?

Also maybe we should be a little more careful with ending spoilers since people are picking it up in the sales?

It would have added more than the suicide ending.

Randal
Apr 20, 2016

not adding value on SA one post at a time

Roshnak posted:

What would that really add to the story, though?

Also maybe we should be a little more careful with ending spoilers since people are picking it up in the sales?

It would be a bit of fun before giving up

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Roshnak posted:

What would that really add to the story, though?

Also maybe we should be a little more careful with ending spoilers since people are picking it up in the sales?

It would add being badass and cool like Commander Shepard Mass Effect

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Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
this didn't ruin anything for me but the fact that the final quest opens up at the same time as River's whole quest chain is v. weird pacing

like hey, your brain is about to explode any day now if you don't do something but first you gotta hang out on a yacht with a billionaire while he plays a cool song (that scene ruled btw)

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