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BIG HEADLINE posted:Wow, that's worthless *and* looks like a fantastic way to heat-trap your CPU.
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Dec 31, 2021 12:13
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Anyone have a good basic 12600k overclock guide? Haven't had to overclock in a decade since zen PBO was mostly solid. Is there even a noticeable benefit to overclocking anymore? I was under the impression that basically any cpu made in the last generation or so will throttle themselves up as much as possible until they hit power or thermal constraints. If anything, undervolting is better than overclocking now since you still get a slight performance boost but with reduced thermals.
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Dec 31, 2021 15:24
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:If consumer motherboard manufacturers built motherboards like server motherboard manefacturers, air could still flow through; see: every single 2U or 3U where memory, CPU and everything else just has a passive heatsink covered by a plastic baffle, and the fans are placed in front. Ideally most cases would be designed to have the airflow go from low to high but most are still designed to go front to back with component heat rising to be wicked away by the inefficient airflow. That's why I bit on an O11DXL and raised it an additional inch and a half using blocks meant to sound and vibration dampen a washing machine.
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Dec 31, 2021 17:05
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But airflow is not inefficient, it only takes a tiny bit of it to overcome natural convection 
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Dec 31, 2021 17:32
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Ideally most cases would be designed to have the airflow go from low to high but most are still designed to go front to back with component heat rising to be wicked away by the inefficient airflow.
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Dec 31, 2021 17:50
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I'm not convinced it's a good idea to go from bottom to top, because a lot of cases spend a lot of their time standing on the floor or other surfaces where dust naturally gathers - and even if you use a dust cover, they don't prevent all dust. While true, I have mine up on a cheap end table to specifically prevent this. Then again, I'm the one who's  for more horizontal Air 540-style cases.
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Dec 31, 2021 18:49
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BIG HEADLINE posted:While true, I have mine up on a cheap end table to specifically prevent this.
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Dec 31, 2021 18:58
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Is there even a noticeable benefit to overclocking anymore? I was under the impression that basically any cpu made in the last generation or so will throttle themselves up as much as possible until they hit power or thermal constraints. Most of what attracted me to Alder lake was the fact that overclocking seems to be back. I did some tinkering and got it running quite a bit faster than stock. I'll post benchmarks later. This is not on a super cooler either, it's just a noctua u12s
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Dec 31, 2021 19:39
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If anything, CPU overclocking (outside of extreme hobbyist circles) seems to be on the wane, but GPU and RAM overclocking is still kicking.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:42
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Ideally most cases would be designed to have the airflow go from low to high but most are still designed to go front to back with component heat rising to be wicked away by the inefficient airflow. This is a silly myth, and I'm surprised it still hasn't died. Convection is slow and weak, and even the slowest of fans overpower it trivially. Front to back airflow is no less efficient than bottom to top airflow. There have been experiments done with rotating cases while maintaining the same layout, and there's never any meaningful difference. Modern cases with multiple fans are pressurized systems where natural forces like convection no longer apply. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 31, 2021 |
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Dec 31, 2021 19:49
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Most of what attracted me to Alder lake was the fact that overclocking seems to be back. I did some tinkering and got it running quite a bit faster than stock. I'll post benchmarks later. I don't know, overclocking a CPU that peaks at 4.9 with a 150w limit out of the box stock for another maybe 300mhz doesn't sound like it's worth any amount of time or effort to me but  . Like if you really want a furnace I guess turn on MCE and crank power limit even more but....I don't think Sandy bridge is ever coming back.
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Dec 31, 2021 23:41
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VorpalFish posted:I don't know, overclocking a CPU that peaks at 4.9 with a 150w limit out of the box stock for another maybe 300mhz doesn't sound like it's worth any amount of time or effort to me but I'm still at 150watts
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Jan 1, 2022 06:22
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BIG HEADLINE posted:If anything, CPU overclocking (outside of extreme hobbyist circles) seems to be on the wane, but GPU and RAM overclocking is still kicking. GPU undervolting seems to be the new overclocking really. I've UVd my card for example and see no loss in gaming frames but the card runs cooler and quieter in games. In some cases people have found UVing increases performance with stock coolers too. In my opinion overclocking is a slowly dying trend as even lower end CPUs are so good these days although lower end GPUs are hindered by low VRAM capacity and those that have 10GB+ are pointless since the GPU itself is underpowered to efficiently utilise it and gain any benefits. Case in point the new 2060 release....
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Jan 2, 2022 03:05
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undervolting basically is overclocking in disguise anyway, it's just a bit more involved so it should if anything be a more interesting exercise
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Jan 2, 2022 04:06
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I'm still at 150watts What settings did you land on for your 12600k?
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Jan 3, 2022 00:25
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:What settings did you land on for your 12600k? Sorry, I have been working on rebuilding my old pc and building another from scratch as a gift to my younger brothers so I haven't even booted mine up in two days. I'll get back to you, I have the thread bookmarked! I'll even reset to defaults and do some before after benching SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 00:44
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Hey cool, 12600k looks really good, time to upgrade from my Ivy Bridge. Motherboard for DDR4 looks a bit pricey but still ok. Now let's look at GPUUUUUUUUGH, never mind. How dumb would I be to reuse my 970 for a new 12600 build?
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Jan 3, 2022 13:09
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Beef posted:Hey cool, 12600k looks really good, time to upgrade from my Ivy Bridge. Motherboard for DDR4 looks a bit pricey but still ok. Now let's look at GPUUUUUUUUGH, never mind. not dumb at all if you're coming from an Ivy Bridge
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Jan 3, 2022 13:22
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mdxi posted:ASRock would never design something so inelegant and wonky. ASRock would simply create a motherboard that has DDR4 and DDR5 slots. In the past it would have been 4x DDR4 slots and 2x DDR3 slots but these days it will probably be 4x DDR4 slots and 2x DDR5 slots.
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Jan 3, 2022 14:03
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~Coxy posted:ASRock would simply create a motherboard that has DDR4 and DDR5 slots. In the past it would have been 4x DDR4 slots and 2x DDR3 slots but these days it will probably be 4x DDR4 slots and 2x DDR5 slots. Intel doesn't allow hybrid motherboards, hence the converter card.
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Jan 3, 2022 14:21
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Tom's apparently bought a grey market 12400 and did an early review. Unsurprisingly it looks to be a gaming value monster assuming a) it drops around $200 as expected, b) b660/h670 boards are affordable and c) you can actually buy it. Still no video cards so I guess it's academic anyways.
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Jan 3, 2022 18:50
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Their keynote is tomorrow, I'm curious how much they talk about Arc.
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Jan 3, 2022 19:09
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Rinkles posted:Their keynote is tomorrow, I'm curious how much they talk about Arc. Based on the volume of leaks (including complete laptops), it seems likely that Arc is going to be pretty present. Would also expect the rest of the Alder Lake lineup, and likely the announcement that Sapphire Rapids is in serial production (which considering its already sitting in the big customers racks, that probably won't be too much of a surprise to the people it matters to)
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Jan 3, 2022 19:46
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How bad of a bottleneck will a 6700k be on a 3060 at 1080p60? Building out a system for my cousin, and would be nice to be able to repurpose this and save him a bunch of money. Forza Horizon 5 seems to be fairly well locked at 60 at auto-detected extreme preset, but that's not exactly the most demanding of tests. Need to find him a case now too...
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Jan 3, 2022 22:24
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VorpalFish posted:Tom's apparently bought a grey market 12400 and did an early review. Unsurprisingly it looks to be a gaming value monster assuming a) it drops around $200 as expected, b) b660/h670 boards are affordable and c) you can actually buy it. Beef posted:Hey cool, 12600k looks really good, time to upgrade from my Ivy Bridge. Motherboard for DDR4 looks a bit pricey but still ok. Now let's look at GPUUUUUUUUGH, never mind.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:28
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Enos Cabell posted:How bad of a bottleneck will a 6700k be on a 3060 at 1080p60? Depends on the game, but at 1080p60, that combo will run just about everything locked at 60fps.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:34
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Enos Cabell posted:How bad of a bottleneck will a 6700k be on a 3060 at 1080p60? Building out a system for my cousin, and would be nice to be able to repurpose this and save him a bunch of money. Forza Horizon 5 seems to be fairly well locked at 60 at auto-detected extreme preset, but that's not exactly the most demanding of tests. it depends on the game. 4C8T is getting very long in the tooth at this point, meaning some stuff like Battlefield isn't going to run well regardless since it's very cpu heavy. it's also worth mentioning that the 6700K really needs to be overclocked to keep up with modern processors (in terms of per-thread performance). Stock 6700K is pokey at this point, one running 4.7 GHz is alright at least in per-thread performance. I'd say that's a reasonably balanced budget system but again, there is going to be stuff that it just won't run well due to the core count.
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Jan 3, 2022 22:51
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Thanks, seems like this will probably work out fine for now and when it gets to the point where it doesn't any longer we can deal with it then. Good call on the OCing too, I'll get that sorted out.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:21
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I really don’t think most games actually stress more than 4 CPU cores at once - the vast majority of the benefit seen from moving up a product stack with higher core counts comes from the additional clock speed and cache on those same parts. A 6700k with a good OC would be very unlikely to be the reason for going under 60 fps at 1080p.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:45
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Begall posted:I really don’t think most games actually stress more than 4 CPU cores at once - the vast majority of the benefit seen from moving up a product stack with higher core counts comes from the additional clock speed and cache on those same parts. Modern games tend to be written to take advantage of at least four cores even if they aren't using every single one 100%, and while it's theoretically possible to make do with less than the game is created for by scheduler preemption and other time-sharing techniques, your performance is going to suffer for it. So if a game is written to execute the primary game logic running on one core, graphics on another, physics on a third and miscellaneous on the fourth core - that means there's not an enormous amount of resources left over for the overhead of the OS itself (and even if Windows 10 and beyond has features in DWM which minimize CPU usage for graphical elements when running full-screen or windowed full-screen), there's a bunch of other overhead that's simply unavoidable (think the lower parts of the networking stack even if some of it is offloaded, as well as whatever things you have running in the background, along with filesystem I/O and things of that nature). And if you're the type of person to leave a browser (or multiple, if you're running discord and a browser, because both are functionally browsers) running in the background while gaming, that's gonna get fun real soon. I know PC building and the word future-proofing are basically anathema, but it's hard to imagine a future where there'll be less or the same number of cores we have now, considering the trajectory ever since Dennard scaling failed in 2006. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 23:54
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https://videocardz.com/newz/specs-pricing-and-performance-of-intel-12th-gen-core-65w-desktop-cpus-leaked That 12400F for $167 is a killer deal. Assuming there are enough B660 DDR4 boards to go around on the 5th, thats da new go-to.
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Jan 4, 2022 01:28
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Begall posted:I really don’t think most games actually stress more than 4 CPU cores at once - the vast majority of the benefit seen from moving up a product stack with higher core counts comes from the additional clock speed and cache on those same parts. It's true that a 6700k is getting beat pretty badly by modern CPUs. It's also true that some games have awful performance with <6 and sometimes even <8 cores. And synthetic environments where you're running nothing but one game on a clean install of windows aren't even real use conditions. I'm not saying a 6700k is garbage that you should throw in the trash, but it's definitely an outdated CPU at this point and a significant bottleneck. Is it a horrible misuse of a 3060? Not really, but you are leaving some performance on the table, and CPUs are very cheap compared to GPUs right now. For what he's doing which is a recycled budget build, it's fine. Just fine.
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Jan 4, 2022 01:30
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Think I'm going to upgrade my 6700k to that 12400f. That's a sick deal since afaict it is competitive with the 5600x in gaming.
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Jan 4, 2022 01:58
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And no efficiency cores, so I'm going to assume that one can stay on Win10 / not have to worry about any scheduler fuckery going on. Will BIOS's let you just kill all E cores if you want 8 cores + don't want to upgrade to Win11/just generally don't want to trust something else on allocating cores efficiently? 12700F might be interesting then, but that's almost the cost of another 12400F to get 4 more P cores.
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Jan 4, 2022 03:04
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movax posted:And no efficiency cores, so I'm going to assume that one can stay on Win10 / not have to worry about any scheduler fuckery going on. Yes, you can disable E-cores. Right now this also allows you to enable AVX-512, but there are rumours Intel is going to kill that in the next IME update. If you have E-cores disabled you can also spin the ring up to (at least) 4.7GHz, some boards do this by default but not all. The Intel Labs Twitter showed a hwinfo64 shot of the 12900KS and it had 4.7GHz ring with the E-corres running, which is exciting. Right now E-cores active will cut the ring down to 3.6-4.0, which hurts memory and gaming performance. Also in the screenshot was 5.5 for 1/2 core, 5.2 all core and 4.0 ecore. Crazy chip, might even be a new stepping. I just read that Sapphire Rapids is renabling a form of TSX, can any of the lower level CPU guys in here explain how they've fixed it's Swiss cheese security?
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Jan 4, 2022 04:17
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From what I read online it seems most people have no problems getting their ring to 4.3 with e cores enabled at 1.35v atoml2 voltage, which also overvolts the cores. But it seems like more than that, let alone 4.7, is definite lottery stuff? Helped a buddy to set up his 12600k a couple weeks ago, and we got 5.0/4.0 P/E all core and 4.3 on the ring at 1.35v, but it used over 200 watts under cinebench. Dropping back to 4.8/3.8 P/E and 3.8 ring at 1.23v sustained resulted in 130w power draw. I suggested making that his 24/7 setup but he wanted the ~*sick gainz*~from the first overclock lol.
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Jan 4, 2022 04:36
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If the main downside of using AVX-512 is losing the efficiency cores, then there's no downside on the much cheaper non-K parts that don't have efficiency cores anyway, right? Seems like the 12400 is the real winner in all of this.
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Jan 4, 2022 04:43
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Twerk from Home posted:If the main downside of using AVX-512 is losing the efficiency cores, then there's no downside on the much cheaper non-K parts that don't have efficiency cores anyway, right? Seems like the 12400 is the real winner in all of this. The downside with those becomes the smaller L3 cache, which reduces gaming performance by a measurable amount. And there's no guarantee they'll ship the 12400 with any form of AVX-512 support if they're talking about patching it out of other CPUs. Intel wants AVX-512 to be an HEPC or server-only thing.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:02
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BurritoJustice posted:Yes, you can disable E-cores. Right now this also allows you to enable AVX-512, but there are rumours Intel is going to kill that in the next IME update. If you have E-cores disabled you can also spin the ring up to (at least) 4.7GHz, some boards do this by default but not all. Was that the 12900k? Looking at the tweet https://twitter.com/IntelTech/status/1478079758898446337 Could also be them showing off 13th gen as well. Seems kind of crazy that they'd jump to 5.2 all-core with a KS version given the default is 4.9.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:20
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Shipon posted:Was that the 12900k? Looking at the tweet Raptor Lake is going to be 8+16, so I doubt this is it. This lines up with 12900KS rumours, though the higher cache is new
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Jan 4, 2022 05:26
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