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zedprime posted:There's crimes because eventually you prestige into worlds where hacking is less valuable source of money or experience but crime is now worthwhile so you unlock a crime API and automate crime I mean, I assume most people playing TIS-100 already know a programming language. It's not the kind of thing that appeals to non-nerds. But it was more of a comparison of depth than anything else - the Zachtronics games are much more focused puzzlers whereas this is a coding sandbox, but both will take ages to master. KillHour fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 16:10
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Fhqwhgads posted:This must have been like 10 years ago, but bitburner reminded me of a management/idler where you were looking for IPs to exploit so you can build better decks/programs but they were other people/players that were actively playing as well and you were stealing from players, so kind of like a Dark Souls style PVP on top of the idler/manager. I can't remember the name and now it's killing me. I think this is "SlaveHack". I remember playing it back in the day too. It looks like there's a sequel, but, uh, I really would have hoped they would have changed the name by now.
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Jan 4, 2022 16:14
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Bitburner is really good, and also, way, way too close to what I should be doing for money. I played the hell out of it for one day, and then never, ever again.
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Jan 4, 2022 16:18
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OwlFancier posted:You also need to set a dupe to hauling (or supplying, in the case of machines) priority labour, machine priority dictates which machine they will see to first, but if nobody is doing the hauling/supplying labour, they will still never get round to it. If you have an urgent thing that needs doing right now or everyone will die that's what red alert priority is for too. Thanks. I did stop researching as I hadn't caught up with the existing research. OK I'll dedicate someone to hauling. The vids I've watched always emphasize not getting too many dupes, but maybe I don't have enough.
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Jan 4, 2022 16:29
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No you do want to avoid getting too many, because each one needs a constant supply of oxygen and food which are resources that you have a finite input rate of, because their production usually involves water which you need to find some way of getting, normally it comes from geysers or byproducts from industry, but it's something you can run out of until you secure a renewable source of it. But that's where "slow down" comes in, you can dig out a large amount of the map quite quickly but it takes time to haul it all into storage, so if you've done that it might be a good idea to wait for your storage to catch up. You also might want to look at optimising your transit, I generally make a central riser running through the map with a ladder and a fire pole so dupes can traverse vertically quickly, and also so gases can percolate up and down the base easily. Later it also makes a good trunk for your heavy electrical wire and transit tubes as well as plumbing and active ventilation. A lot of the effort goes into trying to reduce the amount of work your dupes have to do because you generally want to avoid printing more of them if you can do it another way. If you want to post your base designs either here or in the ONI thread I am sure people can give pointers, I'm by no means good at the game but I do enjoy playing with it.
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Jan 4, 2022 16:39
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Mayveena posted:Thanks. I did stop researching as I hadn't caught up with the existing research. OK I'll dedicate someone to hauling. The vids I've watched always emphasize not getting too many dupes, but maybe I don't have enough. The game gives you two tools to debug this priority issue as well: - On the coal generator itself, there is an "errands" tab -- you can use this to see where the generator refill ranks with each dupe. This is particularly useful because it will show you whether or not the errand exists at all (i.e. is this a priority problem or something else?) - Each dupe also has an "errands" tab which shows you all the tasks they are considering and why.
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Jan 4, 2022 17:16
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No-one's going to haul coal on cycles 84 or 85 either
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Jan 4, 2022 17:30
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Setec_Astronomy posted:The game gives you two tools to debug this priority issue as well: Thanks all
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Jan 4, 2022 17:51
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explosivo posted:Oh yeah it's a great way to relay big updates that I don't see anyone else really do, they're just always unfortunately pretty tame updates which makes me think not a lot has been done with it. It's an incremental version so it won't always be big showstopper updates but maybe just... only put a banner on when you have something more interesting to tell people about. Its not a super duper deep game, and the part holding it down for a long time was the UI being less than stellar (I think cause no one knew how to do a decent UI at the start?) so all these little updates are quite nice for actual play. Like the resource tracker is leagues better now, you can see what is where and in how much way easier now. And its also not the only thing in the update, but it makes a better headliner than "we did a bunch of work to help modders not crash their mods". Its a small team and they've been very upfront about a long devtime.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:07
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explosivo posted:
Reminds me of when everyone was hyped for the new Timberborne update and it finally drops with a ticker tape parade for...fencing.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:54
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For ONI: I also recommend getting at least a few basic mods. There are a few informational ones that will just do math for you which is nice. I also use a mod that adds an airlock door (vs. making your own water airlock or something like you used to have to) because, well, it's a real thing that just makes sense to have.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:57
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In thinking more about the Early Access issues I began to realize that in the 2020's, games are on a continuum. For example, there are still people in the Terraria thread, where the 1.4 version dropped a year and a half ago, who won't play it until the mod loader is done. Or some who won't play Paradox games until they are at 2.0 at least because Paradox has a habit of releasing big changes in their 2.0 versions. Or until x number of DLC have come out and then some players will consider it 'released'. It's a very different time than in the 20th century video game world, where a game 'went gold' and that was about it. Perhaps some game developers still consider a game going gold but I've not heard that term in this century for indy games. So I'm sure many people have various requirements to play a game which frankly speaks to the number of options we now have vs what was there in 1995.
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Jan 4, 2022 20:01
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Mayveena posted:In thinking more about the Early Access issues I began to realize that in the 2020's, games are on a continuum. For example, there are still people in the Terraria thread, where the 1.4 version dropped a year and a half ago, who won't play it until the mod loader is done. Or some who won't play Paradox games until they are at 2.0 at least because Paradox has a habit of releasing big changes in their 2.0 versions. Or until x number of DLC have come out and then some players will consider it 'released'. It's a very different time than in the 20th century video game world, where a game 'went gold' and that was about it. Perhaps some game developers still consider a game going gold but I've not heard that term in this century for indy games. So I'm sure many people have various requirements to play a game which frankly speaks to the number of options we now have vs what was there in 1995. And furthermore, even if you're playing whatever is "now", there's a spectrum of mods. There's a bucket of common RimWorld mods, for example, and then I'm over here with nothing but vanilla seeing people ask about how to unlock Jedi regeneration powers for their Smurfs, and I'm like... wut?
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Jan 4, 2022 20:17
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If you all like bitburner for the programming/hacking aspect then check out greyhack as well. https://store.steampowered.com/app/605230/Grey_Hack/ Hell, it might be worth making a separate thread for all of them as there are a few now. hacking simulator Nite team 4 World wide hack Hackmud Hacknet And Programming games like screeps
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Jan 5, 2022 00:42
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Harminoff posted:If you all like bitburner for the programming/hacking aspect then check out greyhack as well. Man, I used to really enjoy Uplink. It didn't have any real hacking in it but it was a perfect 'hacking in a movie' simulator. Also I'm trying to learn programming at the moment and playing something called 'Move Code Lines' has been great. It's a puzzler though, no kind of management.
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Jan 5, 2022 01:03
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nrook posted:I think this is "SlaveHack". I remember playing it back in the day too. I think this is it! It's too bad that it looks like it was pretty much erased from the internet since SlaveHack 2 exists, but my vague memories of 2009 kinda remember something like this.
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Jan 5, 2022 14:34
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explosivo posted:I kinda fizzled out too because I get frustrated with the complexity of multiple bases and for me the solution to this was "find a better way than coal to generate power". Which leads me to another thing that bums me out about ONI; basically having to google "how to make oxygen" or "ONI power generators" and looking through guides anywhere between 1-5 years old about making oxygen and finding out what's still relevant, what relies on glitchy behavior that's since been patched out, etc, then copying it exactly to achieve that one specific goal. I found a video on how to make a compact electrolyzer room that pumps oxygen out and sends hydrogen to a hydrogen power generator to make some power too and that seemed to work, but I just have no idea how to scale up from that since I had to read a guide on how to do it in the first place so I just rebuild the same thing over and over again. I also have no idea if this method is wildly outdated and there's far more efficient and easier ways to make oxygen/power that I'm not aware of. Idk I probably sound like a big dumb baby but the systems in ONI are just so complex and there's no hope for me figuring even the basic concepts out so I'm hanging up my space boots. Here's the thing - what you're looking for when you google the solution is the "optimal" solution. You actually don't need that at all. Let's take a look at oxygen generation. Here's an example train of thought on how to deal with oxygen. code:
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Jan 5, 2022 21:14
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Dirk the Average posted:Here's the thing - what you're looking for when you google the solution is the "optimal" solution. You actually don't need that at all. One counterpoint: I do think it is useful to study some of these optimal solutions to learn "design patterns." I wouldn't do it at an early stage of the game -- and I definitely wouldn't do it if you're at the stage of being frustrated by feeling you must copy designs -- but seeing how aquatuners, steam turbines, heat regulators, various forms of heat exchanger, advanced pump designs (bead pumps, surface pumps), liquid/solid teleportation, etc are used opens up a lot of creativity in the later stages of the game. It's sort of similar to studying the work of other craftspeople to improve your own craft -- it's fun to invent your own wood joint, but you can avoid a lot of pitfalls and get a lot of new ideas by studying how others build furniture and adapting what you learn. There are also a few weird edge cases where it is worth learning the reasons for the "optimal" solutions -- electrolyzers in particular have a problem with O2 packets deleting H2 packets, and there are a few known solutions that are very hard to invent for yourself. But once you know those solutions you can still design your own SPOM and have it work just fine. Without that knowledge the "SP" part is hard to achieve, not that it's necessary. One last note: ONI is far from "solved" in this sense -- there is active discussion on the Discord about new designs for early LH/LOX production, crazy ways of getting extra power from nuclear reactors, miniaturized petroleum boilers, clever ways of taming volcanoes, etc. People are constantly posting interesting/cool/beautiful new designs that show clever ways of either recombining these design components or inventing entirely new ones.
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Jan 5, 2022 22:43
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I'm just not smart enough/don't have the patience to play ONI, that's basically what it boils down to. I really like the early game but once the complexities start to stack up but for the life of me cannot get a good handle on how everything works without resorting to things like the guides and whatnot. This is no fault of the game because like you noted they really do give you all of the information you need to figure this stuff out on your own but it's just not a game where I enjoy that sense of discovery because I'm constantly stressed about whatever the next impending catastrophe is.
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Jan 5, 2022 22:49
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Most things in ONI won't work any less well if you just take the general concept instead of the exact design. Using oxygen as an example, there is no reason you need build the super compact 30 total tiles brick. It can be a 10x10 brick with a hydrogen pump at the top and an oxygen one at the bottom with electrolyzers in between. Space is one resource you have plenty of. If (big if) you run out then you can worry about space efficiency. Most of the time these end up being more stable due the the larger buffers before it breaks itself.
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Jan 5, 2022 22:53
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Xenoborg posted:Most things in ONI won't work any less well if you just take the general concept instead of the exact design. Using oxygen as an example, there is no reason you need build the super compact 30 total tiles brick. It can be a 10x10 brick with a hydrogen pump at the top and an oxygen one at the bottom with electrolyzers in between. Space is one resource you have plenty of. If (big if) you run out then you can worry about space efficiency. Most of the time these end up being more stable due the the larger buffers before it breaks itself. I'm with explosivio, I simply don't want to be bothered with that much thinking. It feels like a job then and it's not paying me. Plenty of other management games to play!
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Jan 5, 2022 23:26
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Xenoborg posted:It can be a 10x10 brick with a hydrogen pump at the top and an oxygen one at the bottom with electrolyzers in between. This is one exception I mentioned above due to some pretty arcane gas deletion rules. If you do this blindly you will likely delete a lot of hydrogen. To avoid this, you can either: - Design so there is exactly one empty tile directly above the electrolyzer's output, or - Use a "hybrid electrolyzer" design where you submerge the electroyzer in a small amount of two different fluids. The latter works *really* well, is easy to set up, and has the advantage of also making your O2/H2 stores into infinite storage, but there is zero chance you're inventing it yourself. If you don't do the above, your design will still work. It just won't make as much H2 as it should and you'll lose energy, probably enough that your electrolyzer becomes energy-negative.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:27
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Did ONI ever come up a cleaner way to resolve the slow overheat death of a colony? When I last stopped you absolutely had to find wheeze worts and/or the magic heat deleting machine and build elaborate rube goldberg air conditioners. The time pressure and complexity with heat was what ended up eventually pushing me away from ONI.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:31
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After giving ONI a serious try recently the biggest roadblock I had was the pain and tedium in trying to build what you want built and rebuild when you want to try something new/different. Just so much time and effort to clear space, get it built in the right way without your dupes getting stuck, and then praying you didn't make one single mistake which can easily destroy all your work. That and even after all the updates and DLC you still have to jump through tons of hoops to achieve some basic result that could otherwise be resolved by some simple hack that shouldn't work in the first place (liquid locks vs airlocks is the biggest example, but also gas/liquid "tanks" and suite management come to mind).
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Jan 5, 2022 23:38
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Nukelear v.2 posted:Did ONI ever come up a cleaner way to resolve the slow overheat death of a colony? When I last stopped you absolutely had to find wheeze worts and/or the magic heat deleting machine and build elaborate rube goldberg air conditioners. Your options for heat management are basically the ones you listed. You can delay the time pressure a lot by insulating your base ASAP and not making too much heat, and you can almost entirely remove it by switching to ranching as your food source (since that's the real pressure of heat; your dupes are happy to like 65C but your plants start dying at 30C). The "rube goldberg air conditioners" aren't as bad as you suggest though, and they're the real solution to heat in ONI. They have two components: - An aquatuner, which cools a liquid and heats itself by the amount cooled. This needs to be controlled with a pipe thermo sensor so you don't freeze the liquid. - A steam turbine, the true "magic heat deletion device" of ONI, which consumes hot steam and spits out 95C water and generates some power. So the basic setup is: the aquatuner cools liquid which cools your base and cools the steam turbine. The aquatuner sits in a steam bath that is cooled by the steam turbine, which also helps power the aquatuner. So it's not really that complicated -- the problem is that if you look up a solution you find a complete, optimal solution to the problem and the complexity looks overwhelming.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:39
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easiest way to cool your base right now is to use a coolant (usually water) to cool your base, then dump hot water into space where it evaporates real quick. pretty much every start will have a water source large enough nearby for this to work. there's also more powerful ways to do it (steam turbine turns heat into power, but unless you then use that power just to power water boilers, it'll produce less heat than steam turbine "deleted"), but that one's pretty far off on start since you need tier 3 research and oil for plastics either way though, i started on a pretty hot asteroid a few days ago and i got to cycle 100 before i bothered setting up active cooling, just insulating my base got me to cycle 100 before i was hitting upper 20 degrees average
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Jan 5, 2022 23:43
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Truga posted:either way though, i started on a pretty hot asteroid a few days ago and i got to cycle 100 before i bothered setting up active cooling, just insulating my base got me to cycle 100 before i was hitting upper 20 degrees average Yep, this is the way. Alternatively, you can start on Rime or the Frozen Forest Moonlet and then your heat problem will be a very different one, namely "how do I grow anything when my base is cold enough to liquefy chlorine"
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Jan 5, 2022 23:46
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Venting excess (hot) gas to space is a good heat management option, as is just finding a cold place and building your heat generating stuff there. That gives you a good buffer. You do need to find an AETN or some wheezeworts in the long run, but you need to find a lot of things in the long run, and generally heat is generated by doing things, so that's really just a matter of "don't build lots of industry until you have figured out how to cool it" which is like, duh? If you insulate your farms and other key areas of your base you can control the temperature quite easily with an icey fan and a space heater, then as long as you don't add or remove more heat it will stay that way. Another good idea is to regulate your water temperature, as you will likely be piping it around the base anyway and especially to your farms, so a temperate water supply means a temperate base, usually. You want to be mining ice and dumping it in the water tank anyway (because that's a good source of more water) so you can also build a tepidizer or cycle it through a hot part of your base to raise it back to temperate. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 23:50
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Setec_Astronomy posted:Your options for heat management are basically the ones you listed. You can delay the time pressure a lot by insulating your base ASAP and not making too much heat, and you can almost entirely remove it by switching to ranching as your food source (since that's the real pressure of heat; your dupes are happy to like 65C but your plants start dying at 30C). Ah the big ticket item we didn't have then is the steam turbine. Previously the magic machine was the Thermo Nullifier a single machine that would spawn exactly once in a cold biome. Then you would use that and/or wheeze worts to cool the air coming from your oxidizers in these elaborate multi-material thermal transfer systems. It was very not intuitive. The steam turbine sounds like a great solution.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:52
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I think you get muliple AETNs now and they've very easy to run, just pump hydrogen in from your electrolysers and it makes everything near it very cold, I usually flood the room with hydrogen gas and build a heat exchanger (which is just a big squiggly metal pipe running through the room to give the contents as much contact time as possible with the cold) and then that's your cooling loop sorted. Only issue is what you actually use as coolant, you need something that won't phase shift while within the operating temperature of the cooling system, also thermal capacity is desirable too as it will allow you to move more heat around. Water is a very good coolant but only works in a quite narrow range before it boils or freezes, which leads you to often using more exotic substances that can survive contact with the very high or low temperatures generated by specific industrial applications.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:55
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Leave plants behind, embrace the barbecue, and no one will care if your base is 68C. To be honest, before the DLC if I found a cool slush geyser that was all my cooling problems solved. Just leave tanks of -2C polluted water sitting around your base and you’re golden.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:08
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Without spoiling too much can someone give me some beginner settings and a couple early goals for workers and resources I don’t think there is a thread Edit I found the info in the op
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Jan 6, 2022 00:14
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euphronius posted:Without spoiling too much can someone give me some beginner settings and a couple early goals for workers and resources There is a thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3885840&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 As far as beginner goals, turn of fires and maybe winter for sure. Then also consider turning down the education and fuel requirements from their highest settings, as well. As for beginner goals, a construction industry is usually a good one, since building your own stuff instead of just hitting the "buy" button is part of the fun. Build a gravel stockpile and a concrete plant (don't worry about cement as a beginner, just import it, but keep in mind you'll want to make your own eventually) and supply them with all of the logistical needs - workers, resources, you get the idea.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:17
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euphronius posted:Without spoiling too much can someone give me some beginner settings and a couple early goals for workers and resources I try hard to keep the OP up to date. And speaking of the OP, if anyone wants anything added, let me know.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:23
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Log082 already mentioned it but I'll second using a construction office to figure out what to do next. It's been a minute since I've played W&R but going down the list of stuff I have to import to make new buildings until I'm eventually making all of it helped me figure out wtf to do.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:53
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Yeah the let’s play that is linked is nice at exploring the possible
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Jan 6, 2022 01:02
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 Why yes, I did implement a microservices scheduling and dispatch system from scratch. Why do you ask? Edit: Before someone asks, the reason the threads aren't being distributed fairly is because I also implemented a dynamic ranking system, so it always targets the most profitable servers first. 
KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 05:16
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 I got sick of having to look through a JSON file to figure out what the hell was going on with my allocations so I ended up writing a small library to render progress bars.
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Jan 6, 2022 07:03
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I'm playing Anno 1800 for the first time and I'm so impressed at how hard it is to make an ugly city. The art direction is incredible; everything just kind of clicks together into a little snow globe version of an island colony
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Jan 6, 2022 07:05
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Riatsala posted:I'm playing Anno 1800 for the first time and I'm so impressed at how hard it is to make an ugly city. The art direction is incredible; everything just kind of clicks together into a little snow globe version of an island colony See ya in a few months 
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Jan 6, 2022 15:01
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