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Gaius Marius posted:Look I know it's been years since the original films came out, and i understand that they feel the need to "do their own thing" but the sheer level of loving disrespect shown by the creators of the franchise to the original movies, and the art of karate itself is absolutely disgusting. When I'm watching a series I don't expect to get jerked around and betrayed in the final stretch because some dipshit director decided they needed to make a loving political statement. There's a time and place for that, and that time and place sure isn't the loving all valley tournament. The last thing I need to be seeing in the last few episodes is loving blue mats This was a good build up to a good punchline.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:44
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Gaius Marius posted:Look I know it's been years since the original films came out, and i understand that they feel the need to "do their own thing" but the sheer level of loving disrespect shown by the creators of the franchise to the original movies, and the art of karate itself is absolutely disgusting. When I'm watching a series I don't expect to get jerked around and betrayed in the final stretch because some dipshit director decided they needed to make a loving political statement. There's a time and place for that, and that time and place sure isn't the loving all valley tournament. The last thing I need to be seeing in the last few episodes is loving blue mats Source your quotes
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Jan 7, 2022 05:47
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Gaius Marius posted:Look I know it's been years since the original films came out, and i understand that they feel the need to "do their own thing" but the sheer level of loving disrespect shown by the creators of the franchise to the original movies, and the art of karate itself is absolutely disgusting. When I'm watching a series I don't expect to get jerked around and betrayed in the final stretch because some dipshit director decided they needed to make a loving political statement. There's a time and place for that, and that time and place sure isn't the loving all valley tournament. The last thing I need to be seeing in the last few episodes is loving blue mats Excellent
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Jan 7, 2022 06:35
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Lowkey best part of the season was all the drama and implied drama around the All Valley Karate board of directors or whatever. That scene was great. Also, they need to start giving Kreese gloves and a gi that covers more of his chest. Anytime you see his chest or his hands/wrists it becomes glaringly obvious that this is not a spry dangerous Karate man, this is an extremely elderly man.
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Jan 7, 2022 06:43
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This show continues to exceed all expectations because goddamn that was a great season.Gaius Marius posted:Look I know it's been years since the original films came out, and i understand that they feel the need to "do their own thing" but the sheer level of loving disrespect shown by the creators of the franchise to the original movies, and the art of karate itself is absolutely disgusting. When I'm watching a series I don't expect to get jerked around and betrayed in the final stretch because some dipshit director decided they needed to make a loving political statement. There's a time and place for that, and that time and place sure isn't the loving all valley tournament. The last thing I need to be seeing in the last few episodes is loving blue mats 
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Jan 7, 2022 06:51
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next season they're going to bust out that Forbidden Technique that daniel was telling his lovely son to stop touching and johnny's going to vaporize terry with a hadouken
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Jan 7, 2022 13:33
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Babe Magnet posted:next season they're going to bust out that Forbidden Technique that daniel was telling his lovely son to stop touching and johnny's going to vaporize terry with a hadouken The first part is a given, but I think that's a great call that it'll be Johnny that uses it (or learns it and decides not to use it, instead honking the nose of Terry Silver).
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Jan 7, 2022 14:29
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Gaius Marius posted:Look I know it's been years since the original films came out, and i understand that they feel the need to "do their own thing" but the sheer level of loving disrespect shown by the creators of the franchise to the original movies, and the art of karate itself is absolutely disgusting. When I'm watching a series I don't expect to get jerked around and betrayed in the final stretch because some dipshit director decided they needed to make a loving political statement. There's a time and place for that, and that time and place sure isn't the loving all valley tournament. The last thing I need to be seeing in the last few episodes is loving blue mats This post is the best, arrrooound!
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Jan 7, 2022 17:52
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Babe Magnet posted:next season they're going to bust out that Forbidden Technique that daniel was telling his lovely son to stop touching and johnny's going to vaporize terry with a hadouken Forbidden Technique unlocks the Dark Hadou within Johnny and we'll get Violent Johnny in Season 4. Also Miguel comes back from Mexico wearing a lucha mask.
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Jan 7, 2022 18:32
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AndyElusive posted:Also Miguel comes back from Mexico wearing a lucha mask.
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Jan 7, 2022 18:41
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i liked this season a lot. Terry Silver was fantastic. Johnny had some great moments. Miguel being listless and disinterested came through pretty clearly, but other people pointed out good reasons for it. Hawk winning vs. Robby, mirroring his loss to Robby in the first season One thing I was pondering: Did Tori and Kreese have a genuine connection? I know that Kreese is a mustache twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain, and a big manipulator, but it felt like the lessons he had taught Tori about winning for yourself seemed genuine. Especially in the final tourney fight
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Jan 7, 2022 19:16
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I don't know if Kreese has much a connection with any of his students - they're all just pawns to him, even the more potent fighters that he regards as important assets. The thing with Tory in the tournament, where he had the flashback to beating up Johhny after his loss and told Tory to play by the rules if that's what she desired, was pretty much the first time I can think of where has had a moment of actual humanity and decency. Funny that shortly after that he got screwed over by Silver.
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Jan 7, 2022 19:23
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Yeah and the stuff from a few seasons ago to help her out but I can't remember the context of that
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Jan 7, 2022 19:50
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Her landlord was being a creep and Kreese beat the dude up.
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Jan 7, 2022 19:51
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Kreese was definitely forming a connection with her, you think he woulda pulled any other student into his office to see what the matter at home was.
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Jan 7, 2022 19:53
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Yeah but the landlord stuff could easily be interpreted (at least it was by me) as him helping her because she was an important fighter in his dojo, rather than fundamentally out of kindness.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:00
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Yeah but the landlord stuff could easily be interpreted (at least it was by me) as him helping her because she was an important fighter in his dojo, rather than fundamentally out of kindness. Kreese isn't emotionally capable of recognizing a distinction between transactional and sincere relationships.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:02
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AndyElusive posted:Forbidden Technique unlocks the Dark Hadou within Johnny and we'll get Violent Johnny in Season 4. Orochi Robbie murders Dimitri in the ring after succumbing to the Riot of the Blood. Hawk must assemble the Three Sacred Treasures to bind Orochi and get justice for his friend.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:04
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DoctorWhat posted:Kreese isn't emotionally capable of recognizing a distinction between transactional and sincere relationships. I think that's possibly the case, but it could also be the case that he isn't emotionally capable of sincere relationships full stop. Either way though, it still feels to me like his advice to Tory in the tournament was the first time he did or said something that was purely based on a positive moral impulse.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:06
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Yeah but the landlord stuff could easily be interpreted (at least it was by me) as him helping her because she was an important fighter in his dojo, rather than fundamentally out of kindness. Distinction without a difference. Especially since it's not like she has anyone else in her corner. It's an "any port in a storm" situation. She has bills to pay and no other real options. Help is help.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:12
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Vitruvian Manic posted:Distinction without a difference. Especially since it's not like she has anyone else in her corner. It's an "any port in a storm" situation. She has bills to pay and no other real options. Help is help. From her point of view, sure. The difference is relevant when the discussion stems from my comment about Kreese's actions in the S4 tourney being the first time he's acted out of an ethical/moral impulse. If he were helping her previously out of basic kindness, it would refute my comment, but I don't think he was.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:16
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I dunno, both characters have a "do what you can to survive, look after yourself first and foremost" mentality. My issue was with Kreese manipulating people against each other and treating his actions towards other people as transactional and I couldn't come to a clear consensus about that when it comes to his interactions with Tory
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Jan 7, 2022 20:22
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Well, I feel like there's little evidence that he has historically thought of Tory any differently, at least until the "try and win clean if that's what you want" moment. But there may have been some nods towards it that I missed, or it may have been meant to be a build-up which led to him finally changing course in his attitude towards her during the tournament... or it may be that the slight change of course was nothing to do with Tory and she just happened to be the beneficiary.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:32
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Concurred posted:I dunno, both characters have a "do what you can to survive, look after yourself first and foremost" mentality. My issue was with Kreese manipulating people against each other and treating his actions towards other people as transactional and I couldn't come to a clear consensus about that when it comes to his interactions with Tory I think Tory is actually a special case. She has a super hosed up home life with her mom, and has to work lovely minimum-wage jobs to survive despite the constant derision of all these spoiled rich kids in the Valley. That's almost literally Kreese's backstory, so I'd guess he understands and respects her to a degree other Cobra Kai kids can't touch. Except maybe Robbie. I don't think Kreese is a literal sociopath, just so insanely crippled by trauma that he's barely functional. The lesson he gleamed from his youth (in the Valley and in the military) is that nobody will help you, that the world is a cruel and unforgiving place, and the only way to survive it is cutthroat brutality. He imparts this philosophy on children because he's a true believer, but he definitely plays favorites. And I think Tory is his favorite.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:53
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Halloween Jack posted:Idunno if I get it either, but there are karate oldheads who insist that you can only train in a room like the Miyagi-do shrine with a sprung wood floor. I remember when I took Taekwondo in the 90s in college, our instructor had us practice on a concrete floor one time(we usually got the basketball gym but somehow there was a mixup and the fencing club got it). I ended up cutting the bottom of my feet doing something, and I distinctly remember the instructor telling me I need to grow calluses on my feet so I can do taekwondo anywhere. That guy reminded me of Johnny in the way he taught. I once broke my glasses when they flew off my face during sparring, and he was happy, said I must be doing it right if my glasses flew that far.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:57
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Yeah I think Tory's home life is so similar to how Kreese's was, and Kreese has taken so much more interest in actually improving it than was strictly necessary to ingrain himself with her, that you can easily argue that he's identifying moreso with her than with basically anyone else. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even respect Robbie in that way; everything Kreese does to """help""" Robbie has this implicit tone of him secretly thinking that this is just a dumb kid that he can control, and then there's the fact that Robbie is Johnny's son so there's always going to be that elephant in the room driving Kreese to always make Robbie's life more toxic, instead of less. Hell, you could probably even go as far as to say that part of it is just that Kreese comes from an older time and just sort of instinctively believes that you should be nicer to girls than to boys, even if he doesn't himself realize it.
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Jan 7, 2022 21:09
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If Johnny is like Kreese's son, then Tory is definitely his daughter.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:54
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I know this just came out, but I already can’t wait for the next season later this year.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:55
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I thought Kreese just told Tori that because he though it was her best chance to win and also to undermind Terry Silver guy since he suddenly found himself in a power struggle. I didn't read it as Kreese having her's or anyone else's best interest at heart beyond his but I try not to overthink this goofy show too much.
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Jan 8, 2022 00:32
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Loved this season. The choreography for the tournament was much better. Was not expecting that last scene. Badass.
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Jan 8, 2022 03:22
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He’s been sticking up for Tori before silver came around though.
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Jan 8, 2022 04:46
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I think you have to look at Kreese's motivation, even as far back as starting Cobra Kai, as him trying to prevent kids from experiencing the trauma he's gone through. The kids he focuses on are the ones who would fall into the life path he followed; Johnny, Tory, and kind of Robbie. Terry is right about Johnny being his weakness, because instead of preventing the same trauma, Kreese instead caused that trauma for Jonny. I think, in his twisted way, he saw Robbie as an atonement for his treatment of Johnny, but Robbie isn't exactly Johnny, and Daniel had too much influence... But now he has Tory. Kreese is still motivated to prevent his trauma through teaching Cobra Kai, but I at think the end of the tournament, telling Tory not to cheat her way, was him learning from his treatment of Johnny. He's built up Tory, but maybe he won't tear her down, like he's done before.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:55
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killer crane posted:I think you have to look at Kreese's motivation, even as far back as starting Cobra Kai, as him trying to prevent kids from experiencing the trauma he's gone through. The kids he focuses on are the ones who would fall into the life path he followed; Johnny, Tory, and kind of Robbie. Excellent, I was going to post similar until I got sidetracked.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:57
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Every mentor figure Cobra Kai is doing one of two things, when you think about it. Either they're trying to prevent their own traumas from being passed down to the next generation, or they're trying a little too hard to live up to their mentor figures. A lot of the show's conflict comes from seeing these motivations contest with one another, as well as the fact that the needs of their students don't always mesh with what they've been through.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:04
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Except Terry. Terry just wants money from those franchises. e: I should re watch, just to see if that motivation can be read all the way through. He made it seem like he was trying to live up to Kreese, but I think he actually realized the financial potential of karate schools, and manipulated Kreese into thinking he was dependant on Kreese. killer crane fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 07:11
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killer crane posted:Except Terry. Terry just wants money from those franchises. I think Terry really was trying to live up to Kreese. But less Kreese the man, more Kreese the message. He struck first, struck hard, and had no mercy, even against the man that had him wrapped around his finger. And in a strange, hosed-up way, I'd like to think Terry believes Kreese'd be proud of him.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:44
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BiggerBoat posted:I thought Kreese just told Tori that because he though it was her best chance to win and also to undermind Terry Silver guy since he suddenly found himself in a power struggle. I didn't read it as Kreese having her's or anyone else's best interest at heart beyond his but I try not to overthink this goofy show too much. No, it was pretty explicitly a moral flash considering the flashback to him telling Johnny to sweep the leg.
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Jan 8, 2022 09:56
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DoctorWhat posted:Kreese isn't emotionally capable of recognizing a distinction between transactional and sincere relationships. I don’t buy that bro and I think you’re being willfully obtuse if you promulgate that idea
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Jan 8, 2022 10:26
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This season was literally so sick and I didn’t know who to root for during the all valley. Insanely badass. I was rooting for tori for the girls obviously but thought she was going to lose due to plot but was subverted like many other things in this insane show. 10/10. The mens final choreo was pretty sick and both of those dudes are jacked as gently caress. I got a green double stripe in middle school never made it to black like a bitch lol but I did take second in a tourney once which is pretty good for a shrimp like me imo. makes me want to get back into martial arts but I’m so old and out of shape. sad poo poo. Anyways cya
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Jan 8, 2022 10:39
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can’t even remember how to tie the belt anymore. big rip.
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Jan 8, 2022 10:40
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