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Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Xakura posted:

strong Finnish air force energy

this. the ok hand symbol and the swastika are comparable. practically the sam erthing frankly.

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yook
Mar 11, 2001

YES, CLIFFORD THE BIG RED DOG IS ABSOLUTELY A KAIJU
Weird getting lectured that context matters, then having it said a gesture can only ever represent one single thing ever in the same post. You can send your hot takes to the ADL and have this egregious injustice corrected if you want.

Either way, poo poo was a couple years ago and would be outdated by now, so it's not like I actually care to argue if it's still a dogwhistle now. Pepe the frog was a big alt thing in 2016, but it's still used often on twitch and streamer VODs now and I don't think they intend it that way there either since it doesn't align with their personalities or how they're using it.

The underlying point is the same idea as the example of people posting black person emojis whenever there's a black player streaming could be racist, but none of you took issue with that. There's also nothing inherently racist about a watermelon emoji either, but it can totally be used in a racist way.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

yook posted:

Weird getting lectured that context matters, then having it said a gesture can only ever represent one single thing ever in the same post. You can send your hot takes to the ADL and have this egregious injustice corrected if you want.

Either way, poo poo was a couple years ago and would be outdated by now, so it's not like I actually care to argue if it's still a dogwhistle now. Pepe the frog was a big alt thing in 2016, but it's still used often on twitch and streamer VODs now and I don't think they intend it that way there either since it doesn't align with their personalities or how they're using it.

The underlying point is the same idea as the example of people posting black person emojis whenever there's a black player streaming could be racist, but none of you took issue with that. There's also nothing inherently racist about a watermelon emoji either, but it can totally be used in a racist way.

The entire point of the OK thing was "let's laugh at idiot leftists freaking out over something incredibly stupid and mundane".

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

yook posted:

The underlying point is the same idea as the example of people posting black person emojis whenever there's a black player streaming could be racist, but none of you took issue with that. There's also nothing inherently racist about a watermelon emoji either, but it can totally be used in a racist way.

yeah who could possibly work out what the difference is between these examples and the ok symbol. truly an impossible task. guess theyre the same then.

16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014
weird

16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 9, 2022

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Lol you all are seriously replying to stux and endorph.

Goons will fall for anything

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014

CharlestheHammer posted:

Lol you all are seriously replying to stux and endorph.

Goons will fall for anything

but they arent wrong? the okay hand sign is not racist or tied to white supremacy unless you want it to be and you shouldnt want it be

16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 9, 2022

Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.
Racists sometimes use it as a racist thing and most people use it as a not-racist thing and it's almost always very easy to tell which you're looking at.

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014


Quibbling over the ok sign is very far from this threads purpose. Please move on.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

CharlestheHammer posted:

Lol you all are seriously replying to stux and endorph.

Goons will fall for anything

stux and endorph are literally two of the most good-faith-only posters in games?? unlike you so i guess joke's on me.

Tiny Myers
Jul 29, 2021

say hello to my little friend


I hope it's not considered continuing the derail to point out that pepe emotes are a good example of something that can actually be used as a "bigots are safe here" emote with plausible deniability.

They're more generally a hate symbol in that they've been heavily co-opted by the alt-right and were disowned by the creator for that reason, and can and are easily used to "test the boundaries" of a stream - I'm a mod for a few streams including one that's partnered, and I definitely notice that new chatters who end up being a problem often tend to use certain emotes like pepes or kappas, so I treat them as a red flag. They often seem to be seeing what they can get away with before pushing more outright boundaries. Banning those symbols is another way, along with proactive anti-bigotry messaging, to flag "we don't want your kind here" to those individuals.

I know they're used by some people with good intentions, and a lot of partnered streamers have their own variations on them, but several twitch channels I frequent actually disable those emotes outright or replaced them with something else to discourage use, like a speech bubble saying "Please ban me" (for pepes, because those are not native to Twitch - they're from a third party extension, so you can change what shows up). It's done good work.

That is an example of a good worthwhile emote ban that is not easily replaced by another imo.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


most people who use the cartoon frog on twitch are not dog whistling

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Tiny Myers posted:

I hope it's not considered continuing the derail to point out that pepe emotes are a good example of something that can actually be used as a "bigots are safe here" emote with plausible deniability.

They're more generally a hate symbol in that they've been heavily co-opted by the alt-right and were disowned by the creator for that reason, and can and are easily used to "test the boundaries" of a stream - I'm a mod for a few streams including one that's partnered, and I definitely notice that new chatters who end up being a problem often tend to use certain emotes like pepes or kappas, so I treat them as a red flag. They often seem to be seeing what they can get away with before pushing more outright boundaries. Banning those symbols is another way, along with proactive anti-bigotry messaging, to flag "we don't want your kind here" to those individuals.

I know they're used by some people with good intentions, and a lot of partnered streamers have their own variations on them, but several twitch channels I frequent actually disable those emotes outright or replaced them with something else to discourage use, like a speech bubble saying "Please ban me" (for pepes, because those are not native to Twitch - they're from a third party extension, so you can change what shows up). It's done good work.

That is an example of a good worthwhile emote ban that is not easily replaced by another imo.

agreed 100%. last night i was wa tching jerma and there were TONSOf pepes in the chat, which i felt was pretty sus on its own, but then he himself said "monkas" and i realised i was watching a nazi channel and closed the tab. hope twitch does something about these sickos.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006
context literally isn't real and doesn't exist, it cantr hurt you

Tiny Myers
Jul 29, 2021

say hello to my little friend


Tiny Myers posted:

I'm a mod for a few streams including one that's partnered, and I definitely notice that new chatters who end up being a problem often tend to use certain emotes like pepes or kappas, (...) They often seem to be seeing what they can get away with before pushing more outright boundaries

Tiny Myers posted:

I know they're used by some people with good intentions, and a lot of partnered streamers have their own variations on them,
I was trying to share my relevant experience on what has worked with stream moderation on both a large and small scale. I feel like willfully reinterpreting that as "yeah man everyone who uses the frog emote is a nazi, what a dipshit lol" kind of sucks and makes me not want to participate in this thread, but oh well. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day though.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

SirSamVimes posted:

most people who use the cartoon frog on twitch are not dog whistling

dogs can't even whistle you fool

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool
literally every terminally online zoomer uses pepes

16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014
pepe being labeled a hate symbol was a really stupid overreaction and just led to nazi's trying harder to claim him as their own. just use the frog if you want too because any sane person should be able to tell the difference between a regular cartoon frog and a racist cartoon frog using simple logic and context

DanielCross
Aug 16, 2013

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

pepe being labeled a hate symbol was a really stupid overreaction and just led to nazi's trying harder to claim him as their own. just use the frog if you want too because any sane person should be able to tell the difference between a regular cartoon frog and a racist cartoon frog using simple logic and context

While I agree with you in theory, in practice people are not nearly as sane as you think they are and will not care about logic and context, and constantly harping that they should will not change that.

Most people believe what they're told and take things at exact face value, and that includes symbols that "logically" are totally innocent like the Swastika, Pepe, and that hand sign, so we need to treat them appropriately and not just assume the best of the online masses.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
e: uhh this was the wrong thread.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jan 10, 2022

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




With XIV, my understanding is that they actually did try to get more servers in anticipation of the expansion launch spike, but there were literally none (not even at grossly marked up prices) to be had.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

Acerbatus posted:

e: uhh this was the wrong thread.

No wait come back it's better then pepe chat

yook
Mar 11, 2001

YES, CLIFFORD THE BIG RED DOG IS ABSOLUTELY A KAIJU
The FF14 servers were expected to explode, but the global supply chain means they couldn't buy the physical hardware. Stopping sales is a bad look, but that plus the free game time is probably the best thing they could have done for the people who'd already spent money and couldn't play. Maybe they offered refunds, too, I forget.

FF7R sounds like a mess, apparently the pc port was supposed to break new ground with $70 as the new normal for games, but the frame rate can take a poo poo when the camera whips around too fast.

Their CEO's new year's statement was a bunch of whacking off about the glorious future of NFTs and blockchain games, so prepare for fun with that.

Moola posted:

dogs can't even whistle you fool
yes they can its called a fart

yook fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jan 10, 2022

16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014
square has been badly mismanaged all the way back to before the merger with Enix and has nearly gone bankrupt multiple times. it owns lol

16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jan 10, 2022

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


square is one of those companies that has always succeeded in spite of itself. the history behind final fantasy, the progenitor of a flagship series and arguably one of the most influential videogames of all time, is hilarious:

Wikipedia posted:

Hironobu Sakaguchi had intended to make a role-playing game (RPG) for a long time, but his employer Square refused to give him permission as it expected low sales of such a product. However, when the RPG Dragon Quest was released and proved to be a hit in Japan, the company reconsidered its stance on the genre and approved Sakaguchi's vision of an RPG inspired by Ultima and Wizardry.[9] Only three of his colleagues volunteered to join this project headed by him because he was thought of as a "rough boss" in spite of his unsuccessful creations. Eventually, Final Fantasy was developed by a team of seven core staff members within Square referred to as the "A-Team".

Also Wikipedia posted:

When the project started to show promise, designer Hiromichi Tanaka and his "B-Team" joined to aid development. The lack of faith in Sakaguchi's team, as well as its unpopularity within the company, motivated the staff members to give their best.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006
it is genuinely hilarious how many times SE has self owned Sideshow Bob style, Spirits Within and FFXIV 1.0 being the most obvious examples

also, consider that apparently some of the sub fee profits from FFXIV go toward funding new games. So while 14 is raking in money, it sometimes is just directly funnelled down the toilet to make the videogame equivalents of The Room, with The Quiet Man and then Balan Wonderworld lol

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Good imo.

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010

Moola posted:

it is genuinely hilarious how many times SE has self owned Sideshow Bob style, Spirits Within and FFXIV 1.0 being the most obvious examples

also, consider that apparently some of the sub fee profits from FFXIV go toward funding new games. So while 14 is raking in money, it sometimes is just directly funnelled down the toilet to make the videogame equivalents of The Room, with The Quiet Man and then Balan Wonderworld lol

Don't forget The Avengers!

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
FF14 money is being funneled down the NFT toilet which is some poo poo

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012

Hopefully everybody yelling at them about how much they suck will get them to pull away from nft garbage.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006

Hunter Noventa posted:

Don't forget The Avengers!

I keep forgetting this game exists

And I own it and beat it lol

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Golden Goat posted:

Hopefully everybody yelling at them about how much they suck will get them to pull away from nft garbage.

Isn't it the CEO leading the charge towards NFTs? Much like with Ubisoft anything short of taxes and regulations on the items will only encourage them to try harder. Like angry investors could literally invade their office to beat them black and blue and that would just further convince them they're more right.

And the only reasons taxes and regulations will work is because that's what they're trying to avoid :v:

yook posted:

yes they can its called a fart

It's true: dogs are champion farters!

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Alkydere posted:

Isn't it the CEO leading the charge towards NFTs? Much like with Ubisoft anything short of taxes and regulations on the items will only encourage them to try harder. Like angry investors could literally invade their office to beat them black and blue and that would just further convince them they're more right.
NFTs are just the new buzzword, until they actually put anything out id hold off on assuming they're actually gonna do anything with it. its the same as saying 'metaverse.'

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

I'm waiting for the metaverse implementation he promised.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

SyntheticPolygon posted:

I'm waiting for the metaverse implementation he promised.
FFXIVR

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
CEOs like NFTs because they promise infinite money for doing absolutely nothing and of course big companies like the sound of that. But when every implementation is accompanied by bad press and financial loss I find it hard to imagine them not abandoning ship. I mean, yes, they are dumb for believing in NFTs for even half a second, but to them it's just the latest fad they want to get in on, not a hill to die on.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Moola posted:

it is genuinely hilarious how many times SE has self owned Sideshow Bob style, Spirits Within and FFXIV 1.0 being the most obvious examples

also, consider that apparently some of the sub fee profits from FFXIV go toward funding new games. So while 14 is raking in money, it sometimes is just directly funnelled down the toilet to make the videogame equivalents of The Room, with The Quiet Man and then Balan Wonderworld lol

Wasn't FFXI a massive loss too?

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

No, XI made a stupid amount of money and was Squenix's biggest source of cash for a very long time, at least until somewhere around XIV in Stormblood or so when XIV took over.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

pentyne posted:

Wasn't FFXI a massive loss too?
XI cost a ton of money to make and took a few months to turn a profit but it's a subscription MMO that's run for like 20 years and still has a subscription fee. And it was the most popular MMO in japan for years. WoW didn't really take off much there, it's why FF14 was so stuck in the past.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
FF11 is the third most profitable Square Enix game ever made. This is counting everything Squeenix owns the rights to, even retroactively, so Dragon Quest, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, etc. And for reference they own the rights to Space Invaders so that's taking up the number one slot, so if you don't want to count that it's the second.

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